puree wrote:
The best bit about hordes is that I love the Bloodwrack medusa model and already use them.

Bigger hordes = better Medusa.

 auticus wrote:

 Hulksmash wrote:
This is a bit OT but curious Auticus because I wasn't around for the initial launch of AoS since without points no one in my area played and I didn't have the time to launch a group. When you spread sheet it out I'm assuming you were doing stats and basic abilities across the board. Were synergies included in your calculations for points?

The main reason I ask is that while I do see hordes of goblins because they work in a specific build for board control but little seen elsewhere. I simply don't see hordes of models outside of giant rats, brims, savage orc arrow boyz (good even without kunnin rukk), and those goblins in lists with beastclaw raider characters. While I never see hordes of skellies, zombies, or ghouls. That leads me to think that even with similar stats they don't serve the same purpose for their points that other horde units do in other allegiances and that even in other allegiances those types of units are used as exceptions and not the rule. I feel like those types of units (for which there is definitely a place) then do need something extra instead of being simple 10-man minimum choices.

This is why I'm good with the horde bonus. As long as it doesn't make them insanely OP, which I doubt will happen, I think it's fine because maybe we'll see at least SOME of these arch types of units that currently don't really exist.

The comp system that I wrote was based on damage output and how much damage they could take plus a misc modifier for synergy.

I always see hordes of skeletons and zombies from our death players. Because they know they are stupid to not min/max all of those extra attacks.

The only hordes I ever see are the units that gain the free bonuses though. You are right in that AOS unsurprisingly so let people take tiny armies and that given a choice between a horde army and a tiny army that both do relatively the same damage and absorption are going to choose the tiny army because its cheaper in $$$, less time to assemble, less time to paint.

I'm perfectly fine with letting horde units gain bonuses. If they pay the proper points for them. I am beyond frustrated with the free point giveaway that has been GW for the past few years.

I think we're aiming for different types of balance here.

There have been threads on this and yes the type of balance most people seem to want has nothing to do with 2000 points being equal to 2000 points. Thats the type of balance that I want. I am fatigued by having 1000 models in the game but only 25 of them are worth taking if you want a good game.

Other games do a much much better job at this, and I know GW can also do a much much better job at this as well.

My main issue is with the tone I've noticed when you comment about GHB2. I have no illusions that AoS will be perfectly balanced after its release, but I'm willing to withhold judgment until I've seen the adjusted points costs. After release, I'll look over any adjustment made and decide then just how good/bad GW did. I'm not going to just assume a spectacular failure before I've even seen the effort.

It is assumption yes. But we're dealing wiht a company with a 20+ year history on point-failure and amateur-hour when it comes to balancing their systems. 20+ years of failed point system after failed point system, and then on top of that the GHB which also had huge glaring issues on day one that most of the community was able to pick out (and to this day continue to exploit) are why I am assuming that this will be another epic fail for those of us that don't want to have to run around with the right handful of models out of the thousands of builds.

Part of the allure of GW games is the models are great. I could go play Kings of War right now but I hate the models even though the game system is a lot tighter (not perfect) in balance.

But the GW experience is not so great if the models you find so great cannot be used without a one-sided beat down because the points costs are jacked.

And jacked points aren't getting fixed for another year. I'm beyond tired of having to see kunnin rukk and skyfire spam and busted stormcast game after game and having to wait a year for that to change to something else.

Again - the community did better so I know GW can do better. Other games do tons better so I know that GW can do better. I want them to stop amateur-hour and dishing out hot garbage for a point structure. Right now the alarm bells are screaming that we're going to be seeing the next always take for the next year.

Mesokhornee wrote:
It happens in every game, like 40k video games etc one thing will be op...people B&M..it gets changed now a new thing is "OP" so they switch to B&Ming about the new thing. Point is that isnt ever going to change in a game like aos/40k if it bothers you then you should find a different hobby because youre never going to be not-annoyed in this one (unless your army becomes fotm and is the "OP") thing

The Order Grand Alliance is the biggest in Warhammer Age of Sigmar, and in the General’s Handbook 2017, there’s something for every faction.

The new Allies system is a great way to recreate classic alliances from the Age of Sigmar. The forces of the Free Cities are often made up of an eclectic collection of aelves, duardin, humans and Stormcast Eternals, and you’ll be able to build an army like this without losing access to your powerful new allegiance abilities. Each faction has its own allies table – the Wanderers, for example, can fight alongside their ancestral kindred the Sylvaneth, while the Stormcast Eternals can lend their strength to any Order faction.

On the tabletop, this is going to make for some powerful combinations. If your army didn’t have a Wizard before, you’ll most likely have access to one now, and a Wizard of the Collegiate Arcane (or even a Luminark of Hysh or Celestial Hurricanum) provides much-needed coverage from Mystic Shield on your key units as well as helping dispel dangerous enemy magic. Armies without Behemoths like the Dispossessed and the Free People will be able to add an indomitable Steam Tank to their forces, providing them with a durable juggernaut that’s capable of dealing with Monsters or just blitzing enemy infantry with a huge array of ranged weapons.

The Seraphon are one of the most improved armies in the new General’s Handbook, with new allegiance abilities, warlord traits, artefacts and two Warscroll battalions. The most powerful of these is the Lords of Space and Time allegiance ability – which lets you remove a unit and replace it anywhere on the battlefield more than 9” from the enemy. One of the best units to combine this with is a Troglodon, which – with its increased charge range thanks to Drawn to the Screams – should be more than able to make the 9” charge move.



There are loads of other tactical uses for this ability too; you could use it to drop a Massive Regiment of Saurus Warriors on top of a key objective or to reposition a valuable support unit like an Engine of the Gods away from a dangerous group of enemies.

The Wanderers are a fast-moving ranged army, capable of disappearing off of table edges then reappearing – combine this with Melt Away, and you’ll be able to lead powerful melee units on a merry chase around the tabletop while peppering them with deadly ranged fire. The best way to take advantage of this is with Sisters of the Watch – by forcing the enemy to charge you repeatedly, they’re going to have to deal with multiple attacks from Loose to the Last, which allows the Sisters of the Watch to shoot at incoming units.



If you’re a fan of old-school duardin, the Dispossessed are the army for you. Thanks to Stubborn to the End, Dispossessed units are nearly impossible to shift and you’ll be able to safely take huge units of them.



A Massive Regiment of 30 Ironbreakers will make for a great core to build any Dispossessed army around. While this unit might be slow, you can overcome this with the Ancestral Pickaxe Artefact and drop an ironclad duardin speed bump right in front of your opponent’s deadliest units.



If you prefer ur-gold over gromril, now’s a great time to get stuck in with a Fyreslayers army thanks to a host of new rules in the Generals Handbook 2017. During the course of the game, you can activate powerful ur-gold runes to swing events in your favour:



Coupled with two new Warscroll Battalions and a recently-released Start Collecting! boxed set, and a reduction in points for matched play games, there’s never been a better time to get started with Fyreslayers.

Finally,* your Order army is going to be stronger even if it doesn’t have an allegiance ability of its own. Defiant Avengers has been changed so you always get re-rolls to your Battleshock tests, even when you’re not near your general. This is a great defensive ability and one that makes large sized units of elite models more viable than ever. This is great in the Order Serpentis, and you’ll want to field large units of Drakespawn Knights or Drakespawn Chariots (which are now “battleline-if”**) as the core of your armies.



We’ve only scratched the surface of it, and there’s loads more content for Order players to get their teeth into with the new General’s Handbook – let us know what you’re most excited about on our Warhammer Age of Sigmar Facebook page.

* The Darkling Covens and the Free Peoples are also getting some special attention in the Generals Handbook 2017, and we thought they both deserved a closer look, so keep your eyes peeled in the coming weeks for our in-depth preview of these factions.
** If you’re not familiar with Warhammer Age of Sigmar, Battleline units are the units that make up the core of any matched play force – for example, in a 1000 point game, you need two Battleline units. By choosing your units exclusively from one allegiance, you get stronger and more unusual core choices to reward you for focused list-building. For example, ranged Judicators can be chosen as Battleline units IF the force is made only of Stormcast Eternals.

 Bottle wrote:
Yeah they are so much fun. I recommend just giving each player 3 ruses and adding a twist to any matched play game at a club.

Wayniac wrote:
I'm excited for them, if I can find anyone who is willing to not do boring matched play stuff only.

 auticus wrote:
They are identical to the open play cards for 40k. They randomly create a scenario, map, objectives, and misc events. I love them.