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I'm also leery of the no closed server thing. I also saw that they intend having players be visible on the game map at all times, so it is not possible to simply go off and hide in the hills if you do not want to interact with the other players - they can always come find you. I find that a bit immersion breaking and annoying, as it means I can be griefed pretty effectively. I hope that will change before release. My brother and I just want to pair up to survive together in the Wasteland.

 Da Boss wrote:
I'm also leery of the no closed server thing. I also saw that they intend having players be visible on the game map at all times, so it is not possible to simply go off and hide in the hills if you do not want to interact with the other players - they can always come find you. I find that a bit immersion breaking and annoying, as it means I can be griefed pretty effectively. I hope that will change before release. My brother and I just want to pair up to survive together in the Wasteland.

all i wanted was a single player drop in and drop out game like Ghost recon etc.

That way i could happily play my game with my mates and enjoy the world, if they add a function that means you have to turn on PVP to be attacked by other players, then I wouldnt mind so much, but from the videos I have seen so far I doubt that is what they will do.

IIRC, isn't PVP duels only? Like, you have to accept a duel before you can fight? Not sure how nukes work, probably poorly and designed to literally be tools for trolls.

Being spammed by duel requests will not be a lot of fun either. I would be okay with PVP as default if people cannot find me just by looking at a map. The tension of heading toward some resource rich location would be increased in a realistic way if you knew other players were likely to be hanging around in there.

I think 24 players per server means that if they do not have this map mechanic then players would hardly ever run into each other.

It better have a passive mode like GTA:O. Sometimes I'm just not in the mood for mindless spawn camping and PVP trolling. But its nice to team up and cooperate with random strangers to achieve missions. Passive Mode lets a player relax and play at their own pace, and not be harassed by trolls.

Also has anyone ever played the MMO RPG Defiance? Whilst not quite a AAA game, I think it blended PVE and PVP quite well. You have a PVE overworld, but PVP events (as well as cooperative PVE events) would periodically trigger at various points around the map, with a certain radius of the area around that point being designated as a PVP Zone. If players did not want to PVP or lost interest, they just had to leave the Zone.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 Cheesecat wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Anyone else having trouble pre-ordering through the Bethesda launcher on PC?

Don't pre-order see it as blessing that it's not going through, by pre-ordering you could be getting a game that is a dud, unfinished, broken, full of bugs, broken up into parts for DLC, etc you're literally buying a game blind and only have marketing to go by, whereas when it's released there will

be reviews, Let's Plays, videos/streams of actual graphics, game play, smoothness, completeness, etc and word of mouth from gamers, allowing you to be much more informed about your purchase.

Yeah, no gak I know about all that already and I generally don't pre order.

I only pre-order from a handful of developers that I trust to fix their games even if they do launch with lots of bugs.

DICE, Bethesda, Creative Assembly, and DONTNOD. Studios which are known for buggy launches, but always fix their games. I weigh the risk of a buggy launch against missing out on several weeks or months of gameplay, and decide that I don't want to miss out on that period of gameplay, I'd rather put up with the bugs safe in the knowledge that I can generally trust then to fix it with in a reasonable space of time.

Unknown developers, I typically don't pre order from.

As for DLC, from what I hear Fallout 76 is going to have free DLC and focus on cosmetic micro.transactions (which will be obtainable in game). That I can tolerate, if reluctantly.

If you want to pre-order but your launcher is acting up, you should be able to do that off the Bethesda.net website. You can log in there just as in the launcher, and the store page will allow you to select the platform and edition you want to buy. It should be functionally the same as starting out on the launcher and should be associated with the same account, because that's the one you're using.

 Da Boss wrote:
Any of you guys have any idea about cross play? I would love to be able to play this with my brother, but he is on PS4 and I am on PC. Has PS4/PC cross play been possible in other games?

Todd Howard said in a video interview with Gamestar that there won't be any cross play for Fallout 76, to paraphrase, because Sony isn't as helpful as everyone would like.

 Formosa wrote:
On topic, I am decidedly out on this game now, forced online play, no ability to have a closed server with friends, no story, no NPC’s ... it’s all adding up to a crap fest like all the other survival FPS games, solid skip from me unless it gets really good reviews post launch.

No story isn't true. There will be a main quest. Just no human NPCs. If that's not enough for you, fair enough.

 Da Boss wrote:
I'm also leery of the no closed server thing. I also saw that they intend having players be visible on the game map at all times, so it is not possible to simply go off and hide in the hills if you do not want to interact with the other players - they can always come find you. I find that a bit immersion breaking and annoying, as it means I can be griefed pretty effectively. I hope that will change before release. My brother and I just want to pair up to survive together in the Wasteland.

I wouldn't take the ability to see everyone all the time for granted at this point. There's a good bit of conflicting information about it out there. It's been stated that it will be so. It's also been said that if you enter sneak mode, you will no longer be visible. In the interview mentioned above, Howard specifically highlighted that a consequence of killing another player unprovoked is that you will be visible on the map to everyone else, so they can see you coming and start a manhunt (to collect a large bounty for murder) if they like.

I'd definitely wait until the beta to see how this shakes out.

 Wolfblade wrote:
IIRC, isn't PVP duels only? Like, you have to accept a duel before you can fight? Not sure how nukes work, probably poorly and designed to literally be tools for trolls.

I got the impression that it's open season by default, with a bounty system and some penalties in place to detract people from murdering anyone. Once you get killed, there is supposedly an option to opt out of further combat, at least with that player. How any of this works in detail is unknown.

Nukes are supposedly not a problem for players. You target points of interest, not players or their camps, and there is supposed to be ample warning so you can pack up and leave. You're not going to have to put up with a missile following you Loony Tunes style. The biggest downside to nukes for a player will be that the high level zone they create may bar you from going there for the usual stuff you'd be looking for in that place, along with creating a more hostile environment you may not be prepared for. But they'll only cover a small part of the map, so you can just go somewhere else and wait out the effect.

It's also worth noting that unlike a lot of these types of game, being killed won't reset your progress. XP, equipment and supplies will stay with you even if you switch servers or get killed.

 Paradigm wrote:
It's also worth noting that unlike a lot of these types of game, being killed won't reset your progress. XP, equipment and supplies will stay with you even if you switch servers or get killed.

This make the game something like a generic Korean MMO, except that there's no such things like vendors.

and just the FO 'liberty' is. these vendors is an easy target to an unfair PK

Many independent (or 'rogue' if you counts copyrights issues) servers solves this with moderation rules where players doing an 'unfair' PK (uses 'Equal Combat' basis, this goes by servers consents that which acts of PK is considered legal (sneaking a 'lawful' combatant and slit his/her throat, or uses of scoped ranged weapons against armed combatants... while being expoitive, might considered legal because these are considered a combat and a combatants may fight back if the said expoits fail... i.e. a sniper may misses his/her target) and some exploits are not... one GTA: San Andreas Online Server in Thialand (AFAIK.. there maybe more) outlaws drive-by shooting (even a target is armed and a lawful combatant, the hiterto target had no real chances against such attacks even if he/she has an effective anti-vehicle countermeasure (Minigun/Gatling, or Bazooka, for example) --he/she can't easily hit or outmanuever oppoients shielded inside a fast moving vehicle before getting a consecutive full-auto shots and horribly killed ) such exploints is considered cheating, ... car chases (even against a vehicle that's not in moving action, or roadsters against bikers) however, is legal.

this is hardly MMOish at all. It was said that private servers would be forthcoming.

Forced online play is the final nail in the coffin, shame, I could have overlooked the other issues just to try out a Fallout game in co-op.

 Da Boss wrote:
Being spammed by duel requests will not be a lot of fun either. I would be okay with PVP as default if people cannot find me just by looking at a map. The tension of heading toward some resource rich location would be increased in a realistic way if you knew other players were likely to be hanging around in there.

I think 24 players per server means that if they do not have this map mechanic then players would hardly ever run into each other.

The map is large anyay. Unless you stay near to Vault 76 where most people will start then you probably rarely come across someone else. The same thing happens in 7DaystoDie. If you stay near where you spawn then there are generally enough people around that you will bump into them . If you head off into the wilderness then you'll hardly see anyone esepcially with a cap of 24 player per map.

If you wander away from the centre then you also get the advantage that if you keep an eye on the map then anyone making a beeline for you should stand out anyway (unless they want the slow sneak approach). If you see that then just log out and find another server to log back into - a bit annoying but a potential way around it.

If you couldn't see other players then how would you be able to trade (although the ability to able to build transmitters might help with that).

I wonder whether you will be able to build a base underground?

 Whirlwind wrote:

 Da Boss wrote:
Being spammed by duel requests will not be a lot of fun either. I would be okay with PVP as default if people cannot find me just by looking at a map. The tension of heading toward some resource rich location would be increased in a realistic way if you knew other players were likely to be hanging around in there.

I think 24 players per server means that if they do not have this map mechanic then players would hardly ever run into each other.

The map is large anyay. Unless you stay near to Vault 76 where most people will start then you probably rarely come across someone else. The same thing happens in 7DaystoDie. If you stay near where you spawn then there are generally enough people around that you will bump into them . If you head off into the wilderness then you'll hardly see anyone esepcially with a cap of 24 player per map.

If you wander away from the centre then you also get the advantage that if you keep an eye on the map then anyone making a beeline for you should stand out anyway (unless they want the slow sneak approach). If you see that then just log out and find another server to log back into - a bit annoying but a potential way around it.

If you couldn't see other players then how would you be able to trade (although the ability to able to build transmitters might help with that).

I wonder whether you will be able to build a base underground?

With the map that's 4 times bigger than Fallout 4, either optimum player limit per server or login queuing mechanism is needed so each game will not be too lonely, nor too dense to be safely supported by an entire game engine...

I don't think player can use CAMP to dig a tunnel and build another vault out of any undug soil. the only possible option to build base underground AFAIK is to find a cave and build a base there (and .. not the V76 itself, AFAIK there's some mechanism to prevent players from doing so). or the closest thing is to occupy any existing underground facility (except aforemented V76 where player begins) and build/repair there.

 Lone Cat wrote:


With the map that's 4 times bigger than Fallout 4, either optimum player limit per server or login queuing mechanism is needed so each game will not be too lonely, nor too dense to be safely supported by an entire game engine...

I don't think player can use CAMP to dig a tunnel and build another vault out of any undug soil. the only possible option to build base underground AFAIK is to find a cave and build a base there (and .. not the V76 itself, AFAIK there's some mechanism to prevent players from doing so). or the closest thing is to occupy any existing underground facility (except aforemented V76 where player begins) and build/repair there.

Yes I've seen that V76 is unbuildable within a certain distance. Walling it off might be amusing for a few minutes but it's a good idea to prevent that type of nonsense. I suppose if you can build anywhere with no distance limitation from the tool box then you could still do that and follow outside the exclusion radius but it might be a bit long. That's why you need pick axes so you can dig your way out!

It would be good to build your own vault, then perhaps I could farm deathclaws?

 Whirlwind wrote:

 Lone Cat wrote:


With the map that's 4 times bigger than Fallout 4, either optimum player limit per server or login queuing mechanism is needed so each game will not be too lonely, nor too dense to be safely supported by an entire game engine...

I don't think player can use CAMP to dig a tunnel and build another vault out of any undug soil. the only possible option to build base underground AFAIK is to find a cave and build a base there (and .. not the V76 itself, AFAIK there's some mechanism to prevent players from doing so). or the closest thing is to occupy any existing underground facility (except aforemented V76 where player begins) and build/repair there.

Yes I've seen that V76 is unbuildable within a certain distance. Walling it off might be amusing for a few minutes but it's a good idea to prevent that type of nonsense. I suppose if you can build anywhere with no distance limitation from the tool box then you could still do that and follow outside the exclusion radius but it might be a bit long. That's why you need pick axes so you can dig your way out!

It would be good to build your own vault, then perhaps I could farm deathclaws?

#freealldeathclaws
#deathclawshaverightstoo
#farmerjoeisafascist

 Geifer wrote:


It would be good to build your own vault, then perhaps I could farm deathclaws?

#freealldeathclaws
#deathclawshaverightstoo
#farmerjoeisafascist

 Whirlwind wrote:

 Lone Cat wrote:


With the map that's 4 times bigger than Fallout 4, either optimum player limit per server or login queuing mechanism is needed so each game will not be too lonely, nor too dense to be safely supported by an entire game engine...

I don't think player can use CAMP to dig a tunnel and build another vault out of any undug soil. the only possible option to build base underground AFAIK is to find a cave and build a base there (and .. not the V76 itself, AFAIK there's some mechanism to prevent players from doing so). or the closest thing is to occupy any existing underground facility (except aforemented V76 where player begins) and build/repair there.

Yes I've seen that V76 is unbuildable within a certain distance. Walling it off might be amusing for a few minutes but it's a good idea to prevent that type of nonsense. I suppose if you can build anywhere with no distance limitation from the tool box then you could still do that and follow outside the exclusion radius but it might be a bit long. That's why you need pick axes so you can dig your way out!

It would be good to build your own vault, then perhaps I could farm deathclaws?

Before you can farm the Deathclaws, you must catch them alive, and tame them first. I'm Not sure if Beth permits you to do so, (and which skills or at what level do the Deathclaws taming perk becomes available)
in the entirety of Fallout universe, Enclave (as well as its predecessor, the US Federal Government) was the first to tame the Claws, (In truth the US Govt. created them as a type of war hounds to deploy against the in-universe 'equal enemy' like PRC)
then in Fallout 2, a hostel in Modoc also serve deathclaw omelette.! (and there's a 'chicken coop' that actually housed a deathclaw mother (hen) ... suggesting that wastelanders can somehow tame them but not a complete docile, a Claw hen can still wound its owner)
in Fallout Tactics (if you consider the in game story as canon), there's a tribe/faction that can tame wasteland dangerous beasts (Radscorpions and Deathclaws, both of which are vicious to humans). Also both in F2 and FT, there's a strain of intelligent deathclaws that talks (and can befreind with. in F2 you can recruit one Claws as a permanent companion, and can rescue another caged inside an Enclave base, through the latter did not join player nor pursue him/her if left alone)
Not sure about F3 and New Vegas though, whether is there a group of humans who can tame Deathclaws and none of the Enclave Remnants figure out how to do that (none.. including Gannon) are trained for that.

Fallout 3 had mind-controlled Deathclaws under Enclave control (until you hacked the terminal nearby...). Fallout 4 has workshop options to catch (cage) and control Deathclaws (beta wave emitter).

Love the headline, Whirlwind. Long live eco-terrorists.

I really hope you can use your C.A.M.P. to run a farm if you want to do that. Plant crops, have a Brahmin or two, optionally with dogs and cats. Would then be cool if you had the cage options from Fallout 4, although with human players out there that could specifically target generators or beta wave emitters, keeping around five Deathclaws might not be... safe.

 Geifer wrote:
Fallout 3 had mind-controlled Deathclaws under Enclave control (until you hacked the terminal nearby...). Fallout 4 has workshop options to catch (cage) and control Deathclaws (beta wave emitter).

Love the headline, Whirlwind. Long live eco-terrorists.

I really hope you can use your C.A.M.P. to run a farm if you want to do that. Plant crops, have a Brahmin or two, optionally with dogs and cats. Would then be cool if you had the cage options from Fallout 4, although with human players out there that could specifically target generators or beta wave emitters, keeping around five Deathclaws might not be... safe.

Well if people want to target the beta-wave emitters and the generators and they release 5 angry deathclaws then, well, I think they may come to regret their decision. The animals are their own anti-rustling deterrent! Anyway I was thinking factory farming them. I don't want five, I want hundreds to turn a tidy profit!

* Watches Trailer .Sees Super Mutants.

Eugh.

Bethesda quit including bloody Super Mutants in every game. New Vegas was justified in having them as it was concluding the story of The Master's Army.

Fallout 3 came up with a dumb Vault which was messing about with FEV (instead of having it exclusively held at the Mariposa Military Base, where they were created through trial and error, not randomness).

Fallout 4 was even dumber by having them as a by product of Institute experiments seemingly dating to the early days of the Post-War World - where the Institute created Super Mutants and decided to dump them in the world above (presumably to study ...but that's just assumption).

They're iconic, but damn when I saw them I groaned as much as the Enclave resurfacing in Fallout 3. And this game's supposed to be set a few decades after the War. ¬¬

Too inconsistent Supermutants appearance in every game!
Actually Beth doesn't really like The Old Gang much (New Vegas was entirely made by The Old Gang that made first two Fallout games, under Beth supervisions to use their engines and options)

Supermutants introduced in Westcoast story arc had their well-written backstories. those in eastcoasts are random FEV foul-up experiments either by Vault Tec or The Institute and no consistency at all! in addition the prime humans infected with FEV are rarely present.. only known four exists
- Talus... the first Vault 13 inhabitants to see surface, sent by Jacoren to find a new Water Chip and almost made it! only to be caught by Super Mutant army and dipped in Mariposa base.. he mutated, but not became Supermutants, instead a ghoul (or Harold-like mutant).
- Harold.
- Master. (formerly Richard Moreau). founder and leader of the Unity (He's the first person to create Supermutants, not just one but an entire great army, the main antagonist in F1)
- Frank Horrigan (Enclave One-of-a-kind Supermutant, )
And you've been away for so long..... when I see F76 news here you are the first person comes to mind.

I gave up on making models based on the series when Fallout 4 came out, and turned to other settings. Fallout 4 drained me of any love for the setting following New Vegas as it was just so soulless (on par with a Ubisoft game).

 Wyrmalla wrote:
I gave up on making models based on the series when Fallout 4 came out, and turned to other settings. Fallout 4 drained me of any love for the setting following New Vegas as it was just so soulless (on par with a Ubisoft game).

I'll have to post up a new thread sometime of my Fallout miniatures for This is Not a Test. You directly inspired me to start Fallout and back the TNT kickstarter. Maybe I can return the favour.

I did have a thread but the links to all the photos expired.

 Lone Cat wrote:
Too inconsistent Supermutants appearance in every game!
Actually Beth doesn't really like The Old Gang much (New Vegas was entirely made by The Old Gang that made first two Fallout games, under Beth supervisions to use their engines and options)
.

'Entrirely made' is a pretty inaccurate oversimplification. A few of the black isle folks (particularly at the management level) went from black isle to troika to obsidian, but others dropped out of the industry or went to other developers (like inXile). They also hired new people in the intervening years, and even the old hands had very different attitudes than they had during the black isle days- several have been fairly contemptuous of the job they did on FO2 and the setting bible they used at the time.

'Bethesda supervision' is also vaguely true, but not really. It was licensed out, and included the engine, but there wasn't really a presence sitting over their shoulder constantly.

Voss wrote:

 Lone Cat wrote:
Too inconsistent Supermutants appearance in every game!
Actually Beth doesn't really like The Old Gang much (New Vegas was entirely made by The Old Gang that made first two Fallout games, under Beth supervisions to use their engines and options)
.

'Entrirely made' is a pretty inaccurate oversimplification. A few of the black isle folks (particularly at the management level) went from black isle to troika to obsidian, but others dropped out of the industry or went to other developers (like inXile). They also hired new people in the intervening years, and even the old hands had very different attitudes than they had during the black isle days- several have been fairly contemptuous of the job they did on FO2 and the setting bible they used at the time.

'Bethesda supervision' is also vaguely true, but not really. It was licensed out, and included the engine, but there wasn't really a presence sitting over their shoulder constantly.

OK Tim Cain and his goons left BI after F2 is finished and created Steampunk version of Fallout games.. the Arcanum, many Fallout aspects did appear in Arcanum too. including two-headed bovine (Brahmin in Fallout, appeared only in Tarant city museum in Arcanum) power armor, and Water Chip parody quest.

and why Beth chose not to use western USA as their FO settings anymore? did they conclude westcoast story arc in New Vegas?

Fallout 3's map is roughly centered on Bethesda's headquarters in Rockville, Maryland (up the road from Bethesda, where they started/named themselves after). They did what they know (and would have an easier time visiting landmarks in person), just as black isle did in FO1.

They also probably (rightly) thought that east coast population centers had more history, landmarks and story potential than the big empty spaces of the west.

Or rather they didn't want to touch the existing canon which had been established with the original games,and instead went for a new area. By doing that they could create an entirely separate plot without having to involve the existing factions - whom they may not have felt attached to, or known what to do with. Additionally, when "restarting" the series they may have wanted some iconic imagery for new fans - so went for the Nation's capital in order to select landmarks which would be known world wide - rather than less well known landmarks found in the core region.

Given Bethesda's handling of the setting with Fallout 3 and later 4, be glad that they largely didn't touch the Western United States (outside of broad strokes canon, and elements in Fallout 4). They lack any nuance when it comes to plot, so would likely have made the war between the factions rather black and white (and not given you a choice of faction at all, like they did in 3 at least). That is, if they included the wars, and didn't go for something smaller scale.

Bethesda's representation of the Brotherhood of Steel in Fallout 3 was to have them be White Knights. They then swung around in 4 and turned them into Nazis. Neither of which really was accurate to how they appeared in Fallout 2 (a dying order being taken over by the NCR) or especially in Fallout: New Vegas. Similarly that the Enclave appeared at all in Fallout 3 was a bit daft. Going for a faction which had been decimated in Fallout 2, to somehow a regional power by Fallout 3 - ignoring Black Isle's intentions with the faction to have them - like the Brotherhood, die out after Fallout 2.

Of course, there's always the option to ignore Bethesda's games and just play New Vegas. At least most of that makes sense in terms of the previous canon, barring where they had to deal with areas Bethesda screwed the plot up in (like setting it 200 years after the war, instead of 100 and something, leaving decades where the NCR didn't do much).

 Wyrmalla wrote:

Bethesda's representation of the Brotherhood of Steel in Fallout 3 was to have them be White Knights. They then swung around in 4 and turned them into Nazis. Neither of which really was accurate to how they appeared in Fallout 2 (a dying order being taken over by the NCR) or especially in Fallout: New Vegas. Similarly that the Enclave appeared at all in Fallout 3 was a bit daft. Going for a faction which had been decimated in Fallout 2, to somehow a regional power by Fallout 3 - ignoring Black Isle's intentions with the faction to have them - like the Brotherhood, die out after Fallout 2.
.

So this compels Obsidian team to to creates a band of six Navarro survivors called Enclave Remnants? (and how did they get goin' for almost 40 years without knowing that the Enclave had a new leader by 2077 and not relocated to the old DC? dunno if they recieved any orders or remain blacked out for some 40 years.?

I think Bethesda were going for a "Soft Reboot". I can see how it would be annoying for fans of the older fallout games, but they had been dormant for a fair while at that point. It was all new to me when I picked the game up and I loved the Enclave and the Super Mutants and spent a good few hours getting myself up to speed on the cool background. I especially liked FEV as a sort of handy explanation for how there are so many mutants in the Wasteland.

 Lone Cat wrote:

 Wyrmalla wrote:

Bethesda's representation of the Brotherhood of Steel in Fallout 3 was to have them be White Knights. They then swung around in 4 and turned them into Nazis. Neither of which really was accurate to how they appeared in Fallout 2 (a dying order being taken over by the NCR) or especially in Fallout: New Vegas. Similarly that the Enclave appeared at all in Fallout 3 was a bit daft. Going for a faction which had been decimated in Fallout 2, to somehow a regional power by Fallout 3 - ignoring Black Isle's intentions with the faction to have them - like the Brotherhood, die out after Fallout 2.
.

So this compels Obsidian team to to creates a band of six Navarro survivors called Enclave Remnants? (and how did they get goin' for almost 40 years without knowing that the Enclave had a new leader by 2077 and not relocated to the old DC? dunno if they recieved any orders or remain blacked out for some 40 years.?

Perhaps they were simply deserters who chose not to go East, or by the time rumours of a regrouped Enclave on the East Coast filtered back to the West Coast, these 6 were already pretty advanced in years or had settled down.

If my recollection is right, you did need to do some convincing to get the Remnants out of retirement - they'd been living their own lives for... well, how old was Arcade? Definitely 20 years or more.

And considering that travel for most people in the Mojave was plenty dangerous (Deathclaws, Cazadors), an old timer who did pick up a transmission from the DC Enclave might not respond to it. After all, it's a long journey from California to DC.

Also, remember that in FO4, Danse's team had trouble getting a message from Boston to DC, so it's possible that the DC Enclave's transmissions never made it to California, especially if the Remnants weren't listening out for them.

Thinking about it, considering that they were mostly trying to blend in, they probably didn't have military communications tech lying around, or spend a lot of time scanning the airwaves for transmissions from what they thought was a defunct organisation.

So I don't think it's unreasonable that the Remnants never tried to get to DC and re-enlist.