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Keep in mind the definition of "Wholly Within" is "At least part of every model in the unit is within" (This is from the Designers Commentary FAQ I believe)

So if you are a single-model unit, like say, a really big tank, ANY part of that model being within 9" of the Big Mek makes it "wholly Within".

Are you sure? This is from the BRB FAQ

Q: Can you clarify what the difference is between ‘wholly within’
and ‘within’ for rules purposes?
A: If a rule says it affects units/models that are ‘wholly
within’ then it only applies if the entire unit/model is
within. If it just says ‘within’, however, then it applies so
long as any part of the unit/model is within.

See, that is why I am leaning towards playing the game "Rules as Written"; keeping track of all the errata is maddening.

" which version of the rules are we playing, today? "

Ahh the "wholly within" confusion...
Note that the faqs also change deployment to "entirely within" (enirely and wholly are synonyms) . So if that thing works as every model is partially within for auras then the same goes for deployment zones. Enjoy the turn one charging sideways forward deployed knights.

I love that the gw clarification does not help one bit in the issue

the_scotsman wrote:Keep in mind the definition of "Wholly Within" is "At least part of every model in the unit is within" (This is from the Designers Commentary FAQ I believe)

So if you are a single-model unit, like say, a really big tank, ANY part of that model being within 9" of the Big Mek makes it "wholly Within".

The last FAQ clarified that "wholly within" actually means that every part of every model must be within 9" - making KFF pretty useless for battlewagons.

General Malarky wrote:See, that is why I am leaning towards playing the game "Rules as Written"; keeping track of all the errata is maddening.

" which version of the rules are we playing, today? "

The rules as written would mean that you have no clue what "wholly within" means...

In general it's a good practice to just use the most recent rules all the time - GW makes big updates only twice a year.

To be honest, the meaning of "wholly within" is pretty clear just from the context of plain English.

 AndrewGPaul wrote:
To be honest, the meaning of "wholly within" is pretty clear just from the context of plain English.

As someone who has lived in and traveled to multiple English-speaking countries, I don't think there is such a thing as "plain English".

The definition of "wholly within" from the FAQ is not some wierd 40k-specific use of the phrase as jargon, it's just what those two words mean. I can understand confusion over "within", but "wholly within" doesn't seem to admit any ambiguity to me.

Except previously GW defined "wholly within" as "every model in a unit is within the model".
As "within" is a defined term, it meant that models didn't need to be wholly within the KFF to work, just that every single model would have to have some part within the KFF.

In general, the English language has never been a useful tool to understand GW's rules, quite the opposite. In any case, such terms need to be properly defined in any game, if they are not, it's just bad writing - it's perfectly normal for terms to have different meanings in games than they have in the real world. For example, in MtG, purple is not a color, but black and white are.

 Ratius wrote:
Are you sure? This is from the BRB FAQ

Q: Can you clarify what the difference is between ‘wholly within’
and ‘within’ for rules purposes?
A: If a rule says it affects units/models that are ‘wholly
within’ then it only applies if the entire unit/model is
within. If it just says ‘within’, however, then it applies so
long as any part of the unit/model is within.

EDIT: Sorry, no, you are correct, additional clarification appears to have been added in the latest FAQ that clarifies my previous reading was incorrect.

Wholly within does mean "All parts of all models are wholly within".

Ugh... Kicking myself over not noticing this, earlier... I feel guilty for having used them, now...

War Trakks and the Big Trakk do not have Dakka! Dakka! Dakka!

That... I know I have not been the most positive about Dakka! Dakka! Dakka!, as an ability, but not havimg it still hurts. I do not want to be using them, anymore, in case I forget to not use Dakka! Dakka! Dakka!, like a cheating piece of gak.

Kick to the nuts? They DO get it, technically, but only in melee, because I play Goffs...

Just... fething shoot me...

 General Malarky wrote:
Ugh... Kicking myself over not noticing this, earlier... I feel guilty for having used them, now...

War Trakks and the Big Trakk do not have Dakka! Dakka! Dakka!

That... I know I have not been the most positive about Dakka! Dakka! Dakka!, as an ability, but not havimg it still hurts. I do not want to be using them, anymore, in case I forget to not use Dakka! Dakka! Dakka!, like a cheating piece of gak.

Kick to the nuts? They DO get it, technically, but only in melee, because I play Goffs...

Just... fething shoot me...

Calm down there Mr. Melodrama, no need to get all mopey and special just because you can't do enough personal research. The IA: Xenos FAQ/Errata adds the Dakka Dakka Dakka! rule to all the datasheets in the Ork FW options, look at page 2 of this pdf. https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/imperial_armour_index_xenos.pdf

Not gonna lie, it's a lot harder to take you seriously or give you advice when you keep flip-flopping to being overly dramatic and negative when there's the slightest bit of things not going your way.

Though if you want me to shoot you, can I shoot you out of a cannon? Seems like the right proper orky way to do it.

A) Keeping track of all the information and FAQs has been an uphill battle. It is something I will have to do and will take time but there are.how many books that have had how many FAQs? I did not even think to check if there even were an FAQ for IAX. It makes learning the game really difficult when one needs how many books? The rule book, codex, Index (as an ork player), vigilus, chapter approved (which years?), Imperial armour and then all the pdfs of FAQs. feth.

B) When it comes.to dealing with the wild mood swings; it ain't much easier, from this side of things, either. I wish I was not like this. Quitting smoking (tobacco and marijuana) has not been helping this situation, either. People seem to think I enjoy being like this... Why? Why would anyone enjoy having wild mood swings that cause nothing but trouble? Medication has not helped. Counselling has not helped.

C) So long as it gets me off this planet, sure, fire me from a canon!

 General Malarky wrote:
A) Keeping track of all the information and FAQs has been an uphill battle. It is something I will have to do and will take time but there are.how many books that have had how many FAQs? I did not even think to check if there even were an FAQ for IAX. It makes learning the game really difficult when one needs how many books? The rule book, codex, Index (as an ork player), vigilus, chapter approved (which years?), Imperial armour and then all the pdfs of FAQs. feth.

Codex
Latest CA
Vigilus Defiant because you want the SSAG
Index Xenos 2 if you are running index models
Imperial Armour Xenos if are running FW models

It's really simple - for every book, there is a FAQ, which usually get's updated in fall and spring. At the end of the year, there will be a Chapter Approved book mostly replacing the one from the year before.

Note that if this is too much for you, you should give battlescribe a shot - you can print army lists with all necessary rules from there.

 Jidmah wrote:

 General Malarky wrote:
A) Keeping track of all the information and FAQs has been an uphill battle. It is something I will have to do and will take time but there are.how many books that have had how many FAQs? I did not even think to check if there even were an FAQ for IAX. It makes learning the game really difficult when one needs how many books? The rule book, codex, Index (as an ork player), vigilus, chapter approved (which years?), Imperial armour and then all the pdfs of FAQs. feth.

Codex
Latest CA
Vigilus Defiant because you want the SSAG
Index Xenos 2 if you are running index models
Imperial Armour Xenos if are running FW models

It's really simple - for every book, there is a FAQ, which usually get's updated in fall and spring. At the end of the year, there will be a Chapter Approved book mostly replacing the one from the year before.

Note that if this is too much for you, you should give battlescribe a shot - you can print army lists with all necessary rules from there.

also ntoe it is not a lto of pages in said books for weapons profiles etc related to ork models. personally I made copies of pages with stratagems, relics unit costs, rules etc. and just have that for each of my armies in small binders. it is a lot less intimidating/mentally easier to think "oh its just that little bound notebook of rules to keep track of for my army.

Hey Malarky!
Hell yeah getting a win in! I read some of the thread but apologies if I miss anything

Keep reading your rules, even when you think you already know your codex in and out. Read all your opponents rules even when you think you know them.

Most importantly, get games in and keep a realistic view on your dice. I really liked that you mentioned that you were really lucky rolling strength 11. Those are the kind of things that are good to keep in mind.

If you really want to improve quickly, it takes a lot of work. Writing down what worked and what didn't every game and realizing if it was you or the model/dice.

In your local meta there are likely a few experienced really good players that always win. Play those people and get your face smashed in. ORKS ALWAYS WIN EVEN WHEN WE LOSE. I also suggest playing with different point levels to equalize skill. I love playing newer players when they have 2500 points and I have 2k. It's better practice for both of us and lets us have fun. You also get to play with more toys!


Lastly, never forget how much orks are. They really are the best.

-Pampreen