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Made in us
Confessor Of Sins




Nick Nanavati plays(and wins with) the weirdest most nonsensical SoB lists I can imagine. I need to really take like 4-5 hours and comb through every second of his video because apparently he beat the Deathwatch list that won a GT recently with this monstrosity:

Bloody Rose Patrol

Cannoness- blade of st Elynor, beacon of faith, word of the emperor 100

5 sisters 55

5 retributors- 4 multi meltas 2 cherubs 150
5 retributors- 4 multi meltas 2 cherubs 150

Bloody rose battalion

Cannoness- blessed blade, rapturous blows, righteous rage 85
Palatine- WL indomitable belief, book of st Lucius 45

5 sisters 55
5 sisters 55
5 sisters 55
5 sisters 55
5 sisters 55

5 sacresants- maces 70
5 sacresants- maces 70

Preacher- blazing piety 25
Dogmata- righteous smiting 65
10 repentia 140
2 crusaders 22
Hospitalier 50
Repentia superior 40

5 dominions- 4 storm bolters 80
5 dominions- 4 storm bolters 80
5 seraphim- 4 hand flamers 90

Penitent engine 55
Penitent engine 55
Penitent engine 55

Rhino 80
Rhino 80
Rhino 80

Ignoring his illegal preacher:

How 2nd melee canoness better than Argent Shroud-ing rets? Why extra battle sisters in bloody rose? Hospitaller with no blobs or book? 0 redundancy so if his hammers fail, oh well? Why no Mantle on Rapturous Blows Cannoness?
Incredibly unconventional and either he's playing more than just the preacher rules wrong or he's doing very, very specific things and only those specific things with each unit. Either way, it's worth an in depth look for anyone who has time to watch.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/29 03:24:24


2500pts
2500
3000


 
   
Made in us
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain






A Protoss colony world

This will be my final roundup of first impressions from the codex. I'll rate all of the Order Convictions (both the main ones and the Minoris ones) as well as all of the Warlord Traits. So here we go one more time:

ORDER CONVICTIONS:

Order of Our Martyred Lady: The Blood Of Martyrs: B Tier: Extra Miracle Dice when your units die is great, especially since it stacks with the one you normally get if a character dies. Getting a hit bonus for a unit that has taken casualties is nice but probably won't come up super often because any savvy opponent will just make sure to polish off said units, especially if there's a Hospitaller nearby ready to res some of the models.

Order of the Valorous Heart: Stoic Endurance: C Tier: 5+++ vs. mortal wounds is okay, but won't always be that useful unless you are facing a lot of psykers or other big mortal wound dealers. The ability to ignore AP-1 and reduce AP-2 is good against a lot of small arms weapons (such as those of the ever-popular Space Marines) as well as mid-level weapons like Autocannons and variants thereof, but it does nothing against some of the meaner stuff like Grav-cannons, Dark Lances, or Meltas.

Order of the Bloody Rose: Quick to Anger: A Tier: Extra attacks in the first round of combat is amazing on our melee units, and is the only thing making certain ones of them relevant (like Repentia). The extra AP is just gravy.

Order of the Ebon Chalice: Daughters of the Emperor: C Tier: Being able to choose 2 Sacred Rites is okay, but usually isn't super necessary. The ability to turn a Miracle Dice into a 6 by burning a second one just seems like a way to burn through an already-scarce resource even faster, although there is something to be said for having a 6 in your pool whenever you need one.

Order of the Argent Shroud: Deeds, Not Words: A Tier: The extra mobility on our shooty units is pretty amazing in an edition that seems to reward good positioning and covering multiple areas of the board. Being able to reroll a hit or wound is also pretty strong and definitely seems to reward MSU builds to maximize how many shots get a reroll.

Order of the Sacred Rose: Devout Serenity: A Tier: Auto-passing Combat Attrition is very good for larger units, as my experiences playing with Dark Angels can attest. The extra Miracle Dice thing is pretty sweet too, and should reward a good all-around build with both melee and shooting units.

MINORIS CONVICTIONS:

Shield of Aversion: C Tier: It's a gimped version of the second half of Valorous Heart. Could be useful for a purely defensive list, I suppose. I would just take Valorous Heart if that was what I wanted though.

Hallowed Martyrs: B Tier: Second half of the Martyred Lady conviction. If you aren't worried about taking Junith or getting Miracle Dice whenever you lose units, this could be good. Could pair well with any of the weapon boosting convictions.

Conviction of Faith: C Tier: Rerolling 1's is okay for Miracle Dice, but honestly 1's can be useful if you need to auto-pass a key Morale test or something. It would be better if you could just flat reroll it, but as it is I think there are better picks for convictions.

Devout Fanaticism: A Tier: +1 to hit in the first round of combat is really strong and could make this a decent alternative to "just take Bloody Rose" if you wanted to run some melee stuff. Pity GW headed us off at the pass on pairing this with Holy Wrath though.

Guided By The Emperor's Will: A Tier: This is just the reroll part of Argent Shroud. It's strong, and gives an alternative to Argent Shroud if you aren't worried about the move and shoot as if you stood still thing.

Holy Wrath: B Tier: This is a good thing to have, especially if you like Sacresants with the maces, but generally if I wanted the extra AP on melee I would just take Bloody Rose, especially since you can't pair this with Devout Fanaticism.

In The Footsteps Of Saints: F Tier: Why would you ever take this? You get one of the main order convictions and gain access to that Order's stratagem and warlord trait, but you lose out on access to their relic. I guess if you're just doing it for the fluff and don't care about the relic anyway, go nuts?

Perfervid Belief: C Tier: Second half of Ebon Chalice. Ironically I think it would be better than straight-up taking Ebon Chalice if you could also get the EC warlord trait since you could pair it with something more useful than getting to pick 2 sacred rites. As is, maybe it's good? Not sure what I'd pair it with honestly.

Purifying Recitations: D Tier: It's a good effect to have army-wide, but it'll be absolutely useless against any army that doesn't have psykers (i.e. most competitive lists that aren't Chaos or Aeldari), meaning it's really too situational to take over other things.

Raging Fervour: A Tier: Melta weapons are really strong right now, and this just straight-up makes them better. I can see this one getting picked a lot if people don't take one of the main Orders.

Rites Of Fire: B Tier: If you want to spam flamer weapons, this is the conviction for you. Obviously it's good on Retributors, but even BSS with regular or heavy flamers can get good mileage out of this, and it also boosts Hand Flamer Seraphim. Pity Mortifiers don't have the ORDER keyword, or it would be crazy good on those. If we see more horde armies start to enter the meta (and with Orks coming soon that's a possibility), this one could see a lot of play.

Righteous Suffering: D Tier: Basically worse Transhuman Physiology, and basically worthless on anything that isn't infantry. It's only a 20% increase in survivability (5/6 chance to wound becomes 4/6 chance with S6+ weapons), and useless against any weapon or attack with less than Strength 6.

Slayers of Heretics: C Tier: This one allows us to be "headhunters" and hit characters easier. Probably not worth it since we don't have any way to really snipe a character and most opponents will be protecting their characters. I rate it C tier because there are some characters (like Ghazzy, The Silent King, etc.) that don't hide and will actually come out to play, so it's definitely not useless. Actually could be interesting for us in the mirror match.

Unbridled Valour: F Tier: Similar to half of the Sacred Rose conviction. We can basically ignore CA tests until we hit half strength or less. I don't think this is worth it. Just play Sacred Rose instead and ignore all CA tests.

Unshakable Vengeance: D Tier: Only edge case I can see for this would be running Heavy Bolter Retributors, as it would be nice to move and ignore the penalty. For the most part, bolt weapons are too weak to worry about ignoring modifiers, especially since in 9th it can never be worse than -1.

Witch Hunters: F Tier: Only good against Psykers, and only good in the Fight phase. Way too situational to ever seriously consider taking in a TAC list.

Personally my gut feeling is that most players are going to pick one of the major Orders, and rarely if ever take the Minoris ones. I've been trying to figure out any super strong combos for the Minoris ones myself, but so far I can't really come up with anything that is better than the regular ones. I'd love to hear thoughts and have a discussion on this topic though; perhaps someone else has spotted something I missed.

And now, Warlord Traits:

Inspiring Orator: C Tier: Extra range on Hymns and other Command Phase abilities is nifty, but really not necessary if you position your character correctly. Probably not worth a Trait slot. Junith Eruita has this trait.

Righteous Rage: A Tier: This is an amazing trait for a beatstick character; easily the best melee-oriented trait. Morvenn Vahl has this and she has to be your Warlord if taken, which is part of why she's so good.

Executioner of Heretics: F Tier: Leadership tricks are only good if you can really stack them, and Sisters can't. Hard pass. Ephrael Stern has this one (so never make her the Warlord, ever).

Beacon of Faith: C Tier: Good in a Sacred Rose list (where you want as many Miracle dice as possible for the trait), kind of meh otherwise. I guess if you were doing the Act of Faith secondary it would be good there too. Aestred Thurga has this one if she is your Warlord.

Indomitable Belief: A Tier: +1 to Shield of Faith saves is a big deal. Combos ridiculously well with the Book of Saint Lucius relic to provide a big bubble for the effect. Celestine has this trait.

Pure of Will: D Tier: Extra DtW attempt and +3 to the DtW roll is only useful if facing psykers, so it's a bit situational, albeit good in the right situation. Would be a good flex pick but GW has decided in the rules that we can't flex our traits and relics from game to game. Pity. The Triumph has this trait.

Shield Bearer (Martyred Lady): B Tier: Good on a character that wants to mix it up with the enemy, as it can help protect her and generate some automatic 6's on your Miracle dice.

Impervious To Pain (Valorous Heart): C Tier: Regaining wounds and having a 5+ FnP is nice, but how often are you going to perform an Act of Faith with your character?

Blazing Ire (Bloody Rose): A Tier: Second-best melee trait after Righteous Rage. Really good on a murder Canoness with Rapturous Blows or Benificence.

Terrible Knowledge (Ebon Chalice): A Tier: This is probably the best thing about Ebon Chalice and the main thing that might make some players take at least a small EC detachment in their lists.

Selfless Heroism (Argent Shroud): B Tier: Bigger Heroic Intervention range and Fights First is a good combination, so it could be a good pick for a fighty character.

Light Of The Divine (Sacred Rose): A Tier: Turning a Miracle dice into a 6 for your Warlord is already good, but combining that with the ability to have CORE units be able to fall back and shoot is what really makes it good. This is part of why I think Sacred Rose is a mainly shooty order.

Most of our warlord traits are at least okay, and there are definitely some truly great ones. Having done all of these first look reviews of the book has convinced me that overall Sisters are in a pretty good place. It'll be interesting to see how some of the top players build their lists, and I look forward to hearing some after-action reports in this thread from any of you that get games in.

My armies (re-counted and updated on 9/25/20, including modeled wargear options):
Dark Angels: ~16000 | Space Marines (Blood Ravens and others): ~900 | Space Wolves: ~3800
Astra Militarum: ~800 | Officio Assassinorum: ~600 | Imperial Knights: ~1300 | Sisters of Battle: ~1900
Check out my P&M Blogs: ZergSmasher's P&M Blog | Imperial Knights blog | Total models painted in 2020: 47 | Total models painted in 2021: 87 | Current main painting project: Sisters of Battle
 Mr_Rose wrote:
Who doesn’t love crazy mutant squawk-puppies? Eh? Nobody, that’s who.
 
   
Made in us
Confessor Of Sins




Tacoma, WA, USA

ERJAK wrote:
Nick Nanavati plays(and wins with) the weirdest most nonsensical SoB lists I can imagine. I need to really take like 4-5 hours and comb through every second of his video because apparently he beat the Deathwatch list that won a GT recently with this monstrosity:

Spoiler:
Bloody Rose Patrol

Cannoness- blade of st Elynor, beacon of faith, word of the emperor 100

5 sisters 55

5 retributors- 4 multi meltas 2 cherubs 150
5 retributors- 4 multi meltas 2 cherubs 150

Bloody rose battalion

Cannoness- blessed blade, rapturous blows, righteous rage 85
Palatine- WL indomitable belief, book of st Lucius 45

5 sisters 55
5 sisters 55
5 sisters 55
5 sisters 55
5 sisters 55

5 sacresants- maces 70
5 sacresants- maces 70

Preacher- blazing piety 25
Dogmata- righteous smiting 65
10 repentia 140
2 crusaders 22
Hospitalier 50
Repentia superior 40

5 dominions- 4 storm bolters 80
5 dominions- 4 storm bolters 80
5 seraphim- 4 hand flamers 90

Penitent engine 55
Penitent engine 55
Penitent engine 55

Rhino 80
Rhino 80
Rhino 80

Ignoring his illegal preacher:

How 2nd melee canoness better than Argent Shroud-ing rets? Why extra battle sisters in bloody rose? Hospitaller with no blobs or book? 0 redundancy so if his hammers fail, oh well? Why no Mantle on Rapturous Blows Cannoness?
Incredibly unconventional and either he's playing more than just the preacher rules wrong or he's doing very, very specific things and only those specific things with each unit. Either way, it's worth an in depth look for anyone who has time to watch.
That is one weird list. But why is the Preacher illegal? He has 5 Elite units in the detachment since the Repentia Superior is slot-free due to the Repentia.
   
Made in us
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain






A Protoss colony world

 alextroy wrote:
ERJAK wrote:
Nick Nanavati plays(and wins with) the weirdest most nonsensical SoB lists I can imagine. I need to really take like 4-5 hours and comb through every second of his video because apparently he beat the Deathwatch list that won a GT recently with this monstrosity:

Spoiler:
Bloody Rose Patrol

Cannoness- blade of st Elynor, beacon of faith, word of the emperor 100

5 sisters 55

5 retributors- 4 multi meltas 2 cherubs 150
5 retributors- 4 multi meltas 2 cherubs 150

Bloody rose battalion

Cannoness- blessed blade, rapturous blows, righteous rage 85
Palatine- WL indomitable belief, book of st Lucius 45

5 sisters 55
5 sisters 55
5 sisters 55
5 sisters 55
5 sisters 55

5 sacresants- maces 70
5 sacresants- maces 70

Preacher- blazing piety 25
Dogmata- righteous smiting 65
10 repentia 140
2 crusaders 22
Hospitalier 50
Repentia superior 40

5 dominions- 4 storm bolters 80
5 dominions- 4 storm bolters 80
5 seraphim- 4 hand flamers 90

Penitent engine 55
Penitent engine 55
Penitent engine 55

Rhino 80
Rhino 80
Rhino 80

Ignoring his illegal preacher:

How 2nd melee canoness better than Argent Shroud-ing rets? Why extra battle sisters in bloody rose? Hospitaller with no blobs or book? 0 redundancy so if his hammers fail, oh well? Why no Mantle on Rapturous Blows Cannoness?
Incredibly unconventional and either he's playing more than just the preacher rules wrong or he's doing very, very specific things and only those specific things with each unit. Either way, it's worth an in depth look for anyone who has time to watch.
That is one weird list. But why is the Preacher illegal? He has 5 Elite units in the detachment since the Repentia Superior is slot-free due to the Repentia.

It's illegal because a Preacher only knows War Hymn. Mr. Nanavati's Preacher apparently has Blazing Piety, which is prohibited in the rules.

My armies (re-counted and updated on 9/25/20, including modeled wargear options):
Dark Angels: ~16000 | Space Marines (Blood Ravens and others): ~900 | Space Wolves: ~3800
Astra Militarum: ~800 | Officio Assassinorum: ~600 | Imperial Knights: ~1300 | Sisters of Battle: ~1900
Check out my P&M Blogs: ZergSmasher's P&M Blog | Imperial Knights blog | Total models painted in 2020: 47 | Total models painted in 2021: 87 | Current main painting project: Sisters of Battle
 Mr_Rose wrote:
Who doesn’t love crazy mutant squawk-puppies? Eh? Nobody, that’s who.
 
   
Made in au
Repentia Mistress




I mean, a Relic can give it one...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Plus BSS give cheap board control or can have Palatine auras.

Melee Canoness' are amazing especially in a patrol you don't really care about and in BR

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/06/29 06:03:50


   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut



Glasgow

Yes the relic allows it to choose from 1, 2, or 3.

It has the keywords to do so but the datasheet does not allow it to pick an extra normally
   
Made in au
Repentia Mistress




The 3rd WL is odd though...

   
Made in us
Boosting Black Templar Biker






 ZergSmasher wrote:
This will be my final roundup of first impressions from the codex. I'll rate all of the Order Convictions (both the main ones and the Minoris ones) as well as all of the Warlord Traits. So here we go one more time:

MINORIS CONVICTIONS:

Devout Fanaticism: A Tier: +1 to hit in the first round of combat is really strong and could make this a decent alternative to "just take Bloody Rose" if you wanted to run some melee stuff. Pity GW headed us off at the pass on pairing this with Holy Wrath though.


If one were to run a beatstick HQs like Celestine & Melee Cannoness or perhaps Ephrael Stern along with a decent mix of melee and shooting what would you recommend pairing with Devout Fanaticism?

Also dumb question, Rites of Fire wouldn't affect Celestine's flamer sword right?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/29 20:07:20


 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




It does not. It's only models with that Order Conviction.
   
Made in nl
Regular Dakkanaut




Is Nick's video behind a paywall or free to view? If the latter, I'd appreciate a link. Didn't find anything myself after a brief search.
   
Made in us
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain






A Protoss colony world

 The Red Hobbit wrote:
 ZergSmasher wrote:
This will be my final roundup of first impressions from the codex. I'll rate all of the Order Convictions (both the main ones and the Minoris ones) as well as all of the Warlord Traits. So here we go one more time:

MINORIS CONVICTIONS:

Devout Fanaticism: A Tier: +1 to hit in the first round of combat is really strong and could make this a decent alternative to "just take Bloody Rose" if you wanted to run some melee stuff. Pity GW headed us off at the pass on pairing this with Holy Wrath though.


If one were to run a beatstick HQs like Celestine & Melee Cannoness or perhaps Ephrael Stern along with a decent mix of melee and shooting what would you recommend pairing with Devout Fanaticism?

Also dumb question, Rites of Fire wouldn't affect Celestine's flamer sword right?

To answer the first question, the second conviction would depend on what kind of shooting you wanted. If you were going heavy on Meltas, you would want Raging Fervour. If you wanted lots of flamer weapons, take Rites of Fire. If you were going MSU with meltas, sort of like how Argent Shroud plays, you would want Guided by the Emperor's Will.

As for the second question, Taikishi already gave the correct answer. Celestine does not have the ORDER keyword and would not benefit from Rites of Fire.

My armies (re-counted and updated on 9/25/20, including modeled wargear options):
Dark Angels: ~16000 | Space Marines (Blood Ravens and others): ~900 | Space Wolves: ~3800
Astra Militarum: ~800 | Officio Assassinorum: ~600 | Imperial Knights: ~1300 | Sisters of Battle: ~1900
Check out my P&M Blogs: ZergSmasher's P&M Blog | Imperial Knights blog | Total models painted in 2020: 47 | Total models painted in 2021: 87 | Current main painting project: Sisters of Battle
 Mr_Rose wrote:
Who doesn’t love crazy mutant squawk-puppies? Eh? Nobody, that’s who.
 
   
Made in us
Boosting Black Templar Biker






Gotcha, thanks for the help!
   
Made in us
Confessor Of Sins




Us3Less wrote:
Is Nick's video behind a paywall or free to view? If the latter, I'd appreciate a link. Didn't find anything myself after a brief search.


Free, link is here https://youtu.be/U8TYev9FfcQ.

2500pts
2500
3000


 
   
Made in us
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain






A Protoss colony world

This just in! Sisters take first place at the RAGE GT: https://www.goonhammer.com/competitive-innovations-in-9th-age-of-the-machine/

It's an interesting Sisters list, and the guy wasn't even using Morvenn Vahl (so I guess she may not be an auto-take even if she is pretty strong). Not really surprised that Argent Shroud and Bloody Rose made up the components of that list, as they do seem like the strongest Orders. Although seeing other lists in that article, particularly the AdMech ones, makes me think that Valorous Heart could be a decent meta pick now (since it ignores AP-1, a staple of Skitarii shooting). Perhaps not though, as our units will still drown under the sheer weight of dice the cogheads can throw out. That book is probably even more broken than Drukhari was!

My armies (re-counted and updated on 9/25/20, including modeled wargear options):
Dark Angels: ~16000 | Space Marines (Blood Ravens and others): ~900 | Space Wolves: ~3800
Astra Militarum: ~800 | Officio Assassinorum: ~600 | Imperial Knights: ~1300 | Sisters of Battle: ~1900
Check out my P&M Blogs: ZergSmasher's P&M Blog | Imperial Knights blog | Total models painted in 2020: 47 | Total models painted in 2021: 87 | Current main painting project: Sisters of Battle
 Mr_Rose wrote:
Who doesn’t love crazy mutant squawk-puppies? Eh? Nobody, that’s who.
 
   
Made in au
Repentia Mistress




Is it interesting? Looks like more of the same to me. Sure some units have changed to their best selves(looking @ you, Celestians), but how the list plays out is still pretty much the same and I expect we'll end up with similar optimised lists for this Codex that we had with the last book.

The difference will be, we won't have the not-optimised-but-not-objectively-bad range of lists we had before.

   
Made in us
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain






A Protoss colony world

Lammia wrote:
Is it interesting? Looks like more of the same to me. Sure some units have changed to their best selves(looking @ you, Celestians), but how the list plays out is still pretty much the same and I expect we'll end up with similar optimised lists for this Codex that we had with the last book.

The difference will be, we won't have the not-optimised-but-not-objectively-bad range of lists we had before.

Interesting to me in that there was no Morvenn Vahl, not one but TWO of the Blessings were taken (and neither of those were Rapturous Blows), and there was only one unit of Retributors (I figured a lot of players would bring two such units in an AS detachment). Honestly I'm happy that Sisters are indeed still strong as I had hoped they were. And I'm also happy that the builds don't have to be super spammy like running 3 big units of repentia or 3 Retributor squads. We've got a lot of viable options now, and that is a very good thing.

On a side note, the more I think about Paragon Warsuits, the less I like them as a unit. I absolutely love the models and have no regrets about picking up a set of them, but where before I was comparing them to Space Marine Terminators, I think they actually compare more closely to Centurion Devastators, and those are not exactly good right now. Paragons are better in an apples-to-apples comparison with DevCents (slightly cheaper, damage reduction, better melee, CORE keyword), but they are strictly worse than their melee counterparts, Assault Centurions, and even those are only good in certain gimmick lists (White Scars, Raven Guard), which Sisters have no real analogs for.

My armies (re-counted and updated on 9/25/20, including modeled wargear options):
Dark Angels: ~16000 | Space Marines (Blood Ravens and others): ~900 | Space Wolves: ~3800
Astra Militarum: ~800 | Officio Assassinorum: ~600 | Imperial Knights: ~1300 | Sisters of Battle: ~1900
Check out my P&M Blogs: ZergSmasher's P&M Blog | Imperial Knights blog | Total models painted in 2020: 47 | Total models painted in 2021: 87 | Current main painting project: Sisters of Battle
 Mr_Rose wrote:
Who doesn’t love crazy mutant squawk-puppies? Eh? Nobody, that’s who.
 
   
Made in au
Repentia Mistress




Perhaps.

I always saw Mortifiers as our biggest spammy unit and this list continued that trend. I also didn't expect Vahl to make it in this list, so wasn't surprised by her not being there.

I love Paragon Warsuits, just not their stats/rules. They aren't durable enough(especially in a t5 ork world that's coming) for a model that makes a good target for everything.

   
Made in us
Deathwing Terminator with Assault Cannon





 ZergSmasher wrote:
This just in! Sisters take first place at the RAGE GT: https://www.goonhammer.com/competitive-innovations-in-9th-age-of-the-machine/

It's an interesting Sisters list, and the guy wasn't even using Morvenn Vahl (so I guess she may not be an auto-take even if she is pretty strong). Not really surprised that Argent Shroud and Bloody Rose made up the components of that list, as they do seem like the strongest Orders. Although seeing other lists in that article, particularly the AdMech ones, makes me think that Valorous Heart could be a decent meta pick now (since it ignores AP-1, a staple of Skitarii shooting). Perhaps not though, as our units will still drown under the sheer weight of dice the cogheads can throw out. That book is probably even more broken than Drukhari was!


Looking at the list of winners, it's honestly quite a nice mix of armies. You have marines still able to compete and with chapters such as Deathwatch and Emperor's spears. An Aeldari get's in (but like Sean N, Daniel O just knows how to run Aeldari really well), Guard, necrons, sisters, chaos, all alongside the new Admech and Drukhari.

Will read in more detail later.
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






 ZergSmasher wrote:
Lammia wrote:
Is it interesting? Looks like more of the same to me. Sure some units have changed to their best selves(looking @ you, Celestians), but how the list plays out is still pretty much the same and I expect we'll end up with similar optimised lists for this Codex that we had with the last book.

The difference will be, we won't have the not-optimised-but-not-objectively-bad range of lists we had before.

Interesting to me in that there was no Morvenn Vahl, not one but TWO of the Blessings were taken (and neither of those were Rapturous Blows), and there was only one unit of Retributors (I figured a lot of players would bring two such units in an AS detachment). Honestly I'm happy that Sisters are indeed still strong as I had hoped they were. And I'm also happy that the builds don't have to be super spammy like running 3 big units of repentia or 3 Retributor squads. We've got a lot of viable options now, and that is a very good thing.

On a side note, the more I think about Paragon Warsuits, the less I like them as a unit. I absolutely love the models and have no regrets about picking up a set of them, but where before I was comparing them to Space Marine Terminators, I think they actually compare more closely to Centurion Devastators, and those are not exactly good right now. Paragons are better in an apples-to-apples comparison with DevCents (slightly cheaper, damage reduction, better melee, CORE keyword), but they are strictly worse than their melee counterparts, Assault Centurions, and even those are only good in certain gimmick lists (White Scars, Raven Guard), which Sisters have no real analogs for.


Non of my lists has her in it yet honestly, with AR MSU and BR don't really need her, she is a power house for sure but unless you are doing the 20 blob and 10 Sacresants or 10 Zephs don't really need her.

15k+
3k
Emperor's Spears 2k
Beastmen 9500
CoS: 3500

Reading/Writing LD, be kind!

https://maddpaint.blogspot.com 
   
Made in ca
Dour Wolf Priest with Iron Wolf Amulet






Canada

 ZergSmasher wrote:
This just in! Sisters take first place at the RAGE GT: https://www.goonhammer.com/competitive-innovations-in-9th-age-of-the-machine/

It's an interesting Sisters list, and the guy wasn't even using Morvenn Vahl (so I guess she may not be an auto-take even if she is pretty strong). Not really surprised that Argent Shroud and Bloody Rose made up the components of that list, as they do seem like the strongest Orders. Although seeing other lists in that article, particularly the AdMech ones, makes me think that Valorous Heart could be a decent meta pick now (since it ignores AP-1, a staple of Skitarii shooting). Perhaps not though, as our units will still drown under the sheer weight of dice the cogheads can throw out. That book is probably even more broken than Drukhari was!

Interesting to see the Seraphim had a spot in this list after all the doom and gloom they've been getting in this thread. IMHO they're not nearly as bad as people are claiming, I'm looking forward to using them when I can finally get a game in.

   
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Regular Dakkanaut




After having played two games with them, I can say that I've really like hand flamer seraphim. The strength increase to S4 makes a big difference to how potent their output is. With the Ebon Chalice stratagem and Divine Guidance sacred rite they become even better. They've easily made their points back in the turn they showed up on the table in both games.
   
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That's good to hear, Seraphim are my favorite unit conceptually so I'm glad to hear the hand-flamer versions are still working out in your games.
   
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 Andilus Greatsword wrote:
 ZergSmasher wrote:
This just in! Sisters take first place at the RAGE GT: https://www.goonhammer.com/competitive-innovations-in-9th-age-of-the-machine/

It's an interesting Sisters list, and the guy wasn't even using Morvenn Vahl (so I guess she may not be an auto-take even if she is pretty strong). Not really surprised that Argent Shroud and Bloody Rose made up the components of that list, as they do seem like the strongest Orders. Although seeing other lists in that article, particularly the AdMech ones, makes me think that Valorous Heart could be a decent meta pick now (since it ignores AP-1, a staple of Skitarii shooting). Perhaps not though, as our units will still drown under the sheer weight of dice the cogheads can throw out. That book is probably even more broken than Drukhari was!

Interesting to see the Seraphim had a spot in this list after all the doom and gloom they've been getting in this thread. IMHO they're not nearly as bad as people are claiming, I'm looking forward to using them when I can finally get a game in.


The flamers are good thats why, there is a stratagem to get max shots on them can shoot when comes down, etc...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/02 01:01:21


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 Amishprn86 wrote:
 Andilus Greatsword wrote:
 ZergSmasher wrote:
This just in! Sisters take first place at the RAGE GT: https://www.goonhammer.com/competitive-innovations-in-9th-age-of-the-machine/

It's an interesting Sisters list, and the guy wasn't even using Morvenn Vahl (so I guess she may not be an auto-take even if she is pretty strong). Not really surprised that Argent Shroud and Bloody Rose made up the components of that list, as they do seem like the strongest Orders. Although seeing other lists in that article, particularly the AdMech ones, makes me think that Valorous Heart could be a decent meta pick now (since it ignores AP-1, a staple of Skitarii shooting). Perhaps not though, as our units will still drown under the sheer weight of dice the cogheads can throw out. That book is probably even more broken than Drukhari was!

Interesting to see the Seraphim had a spot in this list after all the doom and gloom they've been getting in this thread. IMHO they're not nearly as bad as people are claiming, I'm looking forward to using them when I can finally get a game in.


The flamers are good thats why, there is a stratagem to get max shots on them can shoot when comes down, etc...
That's very CP intensive if you use all that though. I've mostly been using them to contest the gaps in the board rather than pure damage dealers, and I think that's part of what makes them work.

   
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 Andilus Greatsword wrote:
 ZergSmasher wrote:
This just in! Sisters take first place at the RAGE GT: https://www.goonhammer.com/competitive-innovations-in-9th-age-of-the-machine/

It's an interesting Sisters list, and the guy wasn't even using Morvenn Vahl (so I guess she may not be an auto-take even if she is pretty strong). Not really surprised that Argent Shroud and Bloody Rose made up the components of that list, as they do seem like the strongest Orders. Although seeing other lists in that article, particularly the AdMech ones, makes me think that Valorous Heart could be a decent meta pick now (since it ignores AP-1, a staple of Skitarii shooting). Perhaps not though, as our units will still drown under the sheer weight of dice the cogheads can throw out. That book is probably even more broken than Drukhari was!

Interesting to see the Seraphim had a spot in this list after all the doom and gloom they've been getting in this thread. IMHO they're not nearly as bad as people are claiming, I'm looking forward to using them when I can finally get a game in.

I think mainly I'm still salty about the fact that Inferno Pistol Seraphim became useless basically immediately after I got a unit of them all painted up.

In all seriousness, I'm actually rethinking about Seraphim, particularly with the hand flamers. I'm planning on picking up the Sisters combat patrol box whenever it finally drops, and I might just put hand flamers on all of the non-Superior Seraphim (so that I can combine them with the ones from the original box set and make 2 units with 2 hand flamer models in each). Honestly that box is not a bad deal, even for players who did buy the original set. Another Penitent Engine is definitely welcome, and we can all probably use some more basic Battle Sisters. The RoO Canoness is a bit of a miss in this edition, but maybe with some creative cutting and/or arm swapping she could be given more useful wargear. I'll probably be turning the Repentia Superior from the set into yet another Canoness.

My armies (re-counted and updated on 9/25/20, including modeled wargear options):
Dark Angels: ~16000 | Space Marines (Blood Ravens and others): ~900 | Space Wolves: ~3800
Astra Militarum: ~800 | Officio Assassinorum: ~600 | Imperial Knights: ~1300 | Sisters of Battle: ~1900
Check out my P&M Blogs: ZergSmasher's P&M Blog | Imperial Knights blog | Total models painted in 2020: 47 | Total models painted in 2021: 87 | Current main painting project: Sisters of Battle
 Mr_Rose wrote:
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I got 2 hand flamer Seraphim back in 6th or 7th ed and I'm glad I did, I've always preferred their potential damage output, the range on inferno pistols is just too short to be worthwhile and they don't synergize with the rest of the unit at all. I agree that it is stupid that they made inferno pistols effectively useless on the unit though. About the only way I can see them working is if they come out of reserves or start on the board but I'd probably rather have a squad of Dominions.

   
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 Andilus Greatsword wrote:
I got 2 hand flamer Seraphim back in 6th or 7th ed and I'm glad I did, I've always preferred their potential damage output, the range on inferno pistols is just too short to be worthwhile and they don't synergize with the rest of the unit at all. I agree that it is stupid that they made inferno pistols effectively useless on the unit though. About the only way I can see them working is if they come out of reserves or start on the board but I'd probably rather have a squad of Dominions.
Fly Inferno pistols up with St C. It's playtest Dex all over again!

   
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Longtime Dakkanaut



Glasgow

No its still bad

I mean 150pts of rets get 12 shots

90pts of sepherim get 4 shots

Playtest is not required its very inefficient even if you could do it reliably

A unit of Seraphim. Is fine for objectives and the handflamers arn't terrible but they are too much of a CP draw

I would probably just keep the unit vanilla if I took one
   
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I think a min squad of Zephyrim in BR is still the better option for objectives. Especally compared to Vanilla Seraphim

   
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U02dah4 wrote:
No its still bad

I mean 150pts of rets get 12 shots

90pts of sepherim get 4 shots

Playtest is not required its very inefficient even if you could do it reliably

A unit of Seraphim. Is fine for objectives and the handflamers arn't terrible but they are too much of a CP draw

I would probably just keep the unit vanilla if I took one


You cannot discount the mobility. Rets may not be able to get LOS to target with their movement, but seraphim do have ability to be very mobile. Might be enough to finish a target that is using terrain wisely. If not, additional 20pts on top of a secondary scoring unit is a relatively small cost.
   
 
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