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Made in gb
Lit By the Flames of Prospero






The biggest issue with this for me is that I very much appreciate stability and surety when I go for a job. I can't finance or plan a move across half the country if I don't even know what my salary will be and the fact the culture of GW (and most corporations) discourages people to discuss this isn't great. I love the hobby and would love to work with GW but also being able to eat is pretty useful.
Seconding the point about Mowazer's Hierarchy of Needs as well.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/28 12:54:39


 
   
Made in us
Sneaky Striking Scorpion




North Carolina



From the above:

(Also, I’ve heard on the grapevine that some people I used to work with are really upset that I wrote what I wrote. I hope this goes some way to redressing that, because that makes me feel awful. I felt like I was standing up for them, but I can see how it might have come across as bashing them because they’re part of the company I was complaining about.)


This makes me sad/pisses me off a little. The OP "rant" was pretty clearly not blaming the GW rank and file (whether they made more money than OP or not.) For a company that seems to fancy itself as progressive, you'd think worker solidarity wouldn't be a foreign concept and the GW insiders would feel sympathetic to James, not pissed. The only person who I'd think has a right to be pissed is the person who sets the salaries; and presumably, that person is under pressure from more senior management in turn. You can criticize the part without criticizing the whole, that's a pretty elementary concept...
   
Made in gb
Ship's Officer





Bristol (UK)

I think it's complicated by the fact that people don't like being told they're being paid less, it makes them feel like a chump for taking such a job and sticking with it.
   
Made in us
Pragmatic Primus Commanding Cult Forces






Southeastern PA, USA

Blastaar wrote:
Calling jobs "stepping stones" is a way of avoiding paying your employees fairly. "Getting your feet wet" so that later on you can find a job with appropriate pay means you are being exploited, much like artists being expected to work for free for "exposure."


However, this is how it works with many fields, including creative ones. The hours might be long in addition to the low pay. But you don't stay in that job. They're temporary. You use the company to learn and pad out your resume, and then promptly take that training elsewhere. It's mutual exploitation. The company usually understands that there will be a lot of churn in those roles...and are usually okay with it because there's more demand for those jobs than supply. I'm sure the demand for roles at GW are very high, which allows them to pay a very low wage.






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Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut



London

 lagoon83 wrote:
 BertBert wrote:
@lagoon83:
On a more positive note, would you mind telling us which of the rulesets you've worked on in your time with GW is dearest to your heart?


I don't wanna derail the thread, so I'll just answer this one. Probably Silver Tower, although Titanicus is a close second


Just to say, having attended a couple of the seminars you have done at shows you are an oddly good public speaker. Maybe go into ted talks with a theory of playing games is all employees need instead of salary? Better than leaning


Automatically Appended Next Post:
beast_gts wrote:
Slipspace wrote:
I also wouldn't be surprised if things like IT are afterthoughts for GW. They're caught between the creative part of the business and the out-of-touch higher-ups who probably think their friend's teenage son who's pretty smart with "computer stuff" can run their IT for them. I mean it's just turning it off then on again, right?
Well, one of the higher-ups wife got the contract to redesign the website a few years ago...


Tom Kirby's wife (well not just her sitting in a room coding, but her company) got £4 million to delete all the great content on the site and start over with what you can basically see today. Maybe the back end for sales is amazing?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/28 13:57:50


 
   
Made in be
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Gene St. Ealer wrote:


From the above:

(Also, I’ve heard on the grapevine that some people I used to work with are really upset that I wrote what I wrote. I hope this goes some way to redressing that, because that makes me feel awful. I felt like I was standing up for them, but I can see how it might have come across as bashing them because they’re part of the company I was complaining about.)


This makes me sad/pisses me off a little. The OP "rant" was pretty clearly not blaming the GW rank and file (whether they made more money than OP or not.) For a company that seems to fancy itself as progressive, you'd think worker solidarity wouldn't be a foreign concept and the GW insiders would feel sympathetic to James, not pissed. The only person who I'd think has a right to be pissed is the person who sets the salaries; and presumably, that person is under pressure from more senior management in turn. You can criticize the part without criticizing the whole, that's a pretty elementary concept...



I think it has more to do with people taking James' tweets as justifications for their "GW is Evil" crusade and thus upsetting those still working at GW fearing they'll get a backlash to go under the fire of those people, even though they have nothing to do with it...because they're looking to bash on GW and whoever is working for them, they don't care about nuance.

Feels natural to me that they're upset one of their friend is dropping such a bomb going viral, with - like James said - not so much nuance as he did in the long post you can read in the link above. Don't think it has much to do with the question on fair salaries.

But people looking only to bash on GW don't care about that long post. They only care about the not-so-nuanced tweets, because they're more suitable to consolidate their beliefs that "GW is Evil".

Even though James said that's not his own perception in the long post...

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/07/28 14:04:58


 
   
Made in gb
Crafty Goblin




Nottingham, UK

Sarouan wrote:

I think it has more to do with people taking James' tweets as justifications for their "GW is Evil" crusade and thus upsetting those still working at GW fearing they'll get a backlash to go under the fire of those people, even though they have nothing to do with it...because they're looking to bash on GW and whoever is working for them, they don't care about nuance.

Feels natural to me that they're upset one of their friend is dropping such a bomb going viral, with - like James said - not so much nuance as he did in the long post you can read in the link above. Don't think it has much to do with the question on fair salaries.

But people looking only to bash on GW don't care about that long post. They only care about the not-so-nuanced tweets, because they're more suitable to consolidate their beliefs that "GW is Evil".

Even though James said that's not his own perception in the long post...


It's this, yep.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/28 14:18:34


 
   
Made in us
Sneaky Striking Scorpion




North Carolina

I can only think of one example of the "GW is Evil" brigade targeting individuals with their ire, and it's people pissed about good/bad codices. This isn't the same as that at all; you can't look at this situation and blame it on Mat Ward or Robin Cruddace or any other worker bee.

GW is a big corporation, they'll weather any bad press over this without any issue.

Plus, you guys said it already, the "GW is Evil" crusaders will continue to crusade regardless of anything. That doesn't mean we can't say GW has a employee salary problem or GW is immune to criticism from everybody else. I can tell you guys (contrary to the blog post), in industries where competition exists, wages are a lot fairer. This isn't some fundamental flaw of capitalism or something.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/28 14:50:43


 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Halifax

I think the crazy brigade screaming nonsense about GW is a separate problem.

   
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Oberleutnant




Hogtown

I feel for the guy. He is a legend, but it doesn't seem like he approached his compensation in quite the right way. He shouldn't have been surprised that the likelihood of a raise occurred when the chance of him moving departments came up.

The only reason a company will pay you more is if it costs them less to do so than to look for a replacement or lose your contribution. It's not about how long you've been there, it's not about the work you're doing (at least not directly). If they know you're going to stay whether they pay you more or not, they won't pay you more. From his tweets (admittedly not a a complete picture of events/the person), it didn't seem like he was going anywhere.

Every "I need more money" needs to backed by a reality that it will be better for them if they do so. It sucks, but it's life.

EDIT: That said, the salary they paid him was far, far too low to begin with. Yikes.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/07/28 15:24:12


 
   
Made in gb
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Southampton, UK

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Made in us
Stealthy Grot Snipa





Atlanta, GA

I said this in a similar reddit thread, but it's my hope that this discussion coming to light from a former GW employee would give current designers and rules writers a chance to compare salaries and possibly collectively bargain for better pay.
   
Made in us
Terminator with Assault Cannon




San Jose, CA

Nurglitch wrote:I think the crazy brigade screaming nonsense about GW is a separate problem.


Not a problem, a cancer that needs to be excised promptly!
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Las wrote:
I feel for the guy. He is a legend, but it doesn't seem like he approached his compensation in quite the right way. He shouldn't have been surprised that the likelihood of a raise occurred when the chance of him moving departments came up.

The only reason a company will pay you more is if it costs them less to do so than to look for a replacement or lose your contribution. It's not about how long you've been there, it's not about the work you're doing (at least not directly). If they know you're going to stay whether they pay you more or not, they won't pay you more. From his tweets (admittedly not a a complete picture of events/the person), it didn't seem like he was going anywhere.

Every "I need more money" needs to backed by a reality that it will be better for them if they do so. It sucks, but it's life.

EDIT: That said, the salary they paid him was far, far too low to begin with. Yikes.


It's the hypocrisy of this that rankles so much. GW constantly tells its employees that they always need to put the needs of the product first, that it's about more than a paycheck, that it's about going above and beyond, that working for GW is a calling, not just a job...and then they turn around and act in the most blatantly self-interested way possible when it comes to maximizing their own profits, even to the extent of paying people barely above a poverty wage to work for them, then repeatedly refusing their attempts to get well-deserved raises based on the quality of their work. GW talks the talk, but doesn't walk the walk. If they were just upfront with their employees about being a soulless corporate behemoth that treats its workers as disposable pawns in its quest to make ever more money, it'd be distasteful, but at least it'd be honest. Telling GW employees they need to be hard-nosed about compensation because they're a disposable tool to be valued via hands-off cold, rational economic calculation, not a valued team member may be true, but it also goes against every single aspect of the corporate culture they've been immersed in.
   
Made in gb
Lit By the Flames of Prospero






I disagree with this whole "you should know that a company won't treat you well" idea because it's not a universal truth. My first job was OK but did terribly when it came to respecting concerns brought up by me about the abusive behaviour of an adult colleague and they handled it so poorly that when the individual left I was essentially blamed for their departure despite being 17 years old and in my first ever job.
My current job, while a pain and very stressful, took my mental health very seriously and was very generous with both recovery time and phased return to work. Similarly, ​when I caught Covid and got hit pretty hard, they were very chilled about making sure I was 100% before coming back to work and were even offering extra breaks if I needed them.

TLDR, nobody should expect to be treated poorly by their employer nor should they have to put up with it if they are.
   
Made in ca
Oberleutnant




Hogtown

yukishiro1 wrote:
 Las wrote:
I feel for the guy. He is a legend, but it doesn't seem like he approached his compensation in quite the right way. He shouldn't have been surprised that the likelihood of a raise occurred when the chance of him moving departments came up.

The only reason a company will pay you more is if it costs them less to do so than to look for a replacement or lose your contribution. It's not about how long you've been there, it's not about the work you're doing (at least not directly). If they know you're going to stay whether they pay you more or not, they won't pay you more. From his tweets (admittedly not a a complete picture of events/the person), it didn't seem like he was going anywhere.

Every "I need more money" needs to backed by a reality that it will be better for them if they do so. It sucks, but it's life.

EDIT: That said, the salary they paid him was far, far too low to begin with. Yikes.


It's the hypocrisy of this that rankles so much. GW constantly tells its employees that they always need to put the needs of the product first, that it's about more than a paycheck, that it's about going above and beyond, that working for GW is a calling, not just a job...and then they turn around and act in the most blatantly self-interested way possible when it comes to maximizing their own profits, even to the extent of paying people barely above a poverty wage to work for them, then repeatedly refusing their attempts to get well-deserved raises based on the quality of their work. GW talks the talk, but doesn't walk the walk. If they were just upfront with their employees about being a soulless corporate behemoth that treats its workers as disposable pawns in its quest to make ever more money, it'd be distasteful, but at least it'd be honest. Telling GW employees they need to be hard-nosed about compensation because they're a disposable tool to be valued via hands-off cold, rational economic calculation, not a valued team member may be true, but it also goes against every single aspect of the corporate culture they've been immersed in.


Don't get me wrong, I agree with you 100% on the hypocrisy. The thing is, though, every worker owes it to themselves to be savvy. The company is not your friend. It never will be. It will always sublimate your needs over the needs of the organization. Without question. Never take a company's dedication to culture at its word. Judge it on merit and action.

 Gert wrote:
I disagree with this whole "you should know that a company won't treat you well" idea because it's not a universal truth. My first job was OK but did terribly when it came to respecting concerns brought up by me about the abusive behaviour of an adult colleague and they handled it so poorly that when the individual left I was essentially blamed for their departure despite being 17 years old and in my first ever job.
My current job, while a pain and very stressful, took my mental health very seriously and was very generous with both recovery time and phased return to work. Similarly, ​when I caught Covid and got hit pretty hard, they were very chilled about making sure I was 100% before coming back to work and were even offering extra breaks if I needed them.

TLDR, nobody should expect to be treated poorly by their employer nor should they have to put up with it if they are.


Of course not all companies are equal in terms of how they treat workers. However, as a worker, you will always be better off if you play to and understand the truth about the relationship you are engaged in with your employer. If you don't like what you've got, literally your only recourse is to either demand more on pain of leaving the organization, or go somewhere else that will provide what you want.

Someday, we might have stronger collective bargaining protections in the west again, but until then this what we have.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/28 16:56:26


 
   
Made in us
Sneaky Striking Scorpion




North Carolina

 Las wrote:
yukishiro1 wrote:
 Las wrote:
I feel for the guy. He is a legend, but it doesn't seem like he approached his compensation in quite the right way. He shouldn't have been surprised that the likelihood of a raise occurred when the chance of him moving departments came up.

The only reason a company will pay you more is if it costs them less to do so than to look for a replacement or lose your contribution. It's not about how long you've been there, it's not about the work you're doing (at least not directly). If they know you're going to stay whether they pay you more or not, they won't pay you more. From his tweets (admittedly not a a complete picture of events/the person), it didn't seem like he was going anywhere.

Every "I need more money" needs to backed by a reality that it will be better for them if they do so. It sucks, but it's life.

EDIT: That said, the salary they paid him was far, far too low to begin with. Yikes.


It's the hypocrisy of this that rankles so much. GW constantly tells its employees that they always need to put the needs of the product first, that it's about more than a paycheck, that it's about going above and beyond, that working for GW is a calling, not just a job...and then they turn around and act in the most blatantly self-interested way possible when it comes to maximizing their own profits, even to the extent of paying people barely above a poverty wage to work for them, then repeatedly refusing their attempts to get well-deserved raises based on the quality of their work. GW talks the talk, but doesn't walk the walk. If they were just upfront with their employees about being a soulless corporate behemoth that treats its workers as disposable pawns in its quest to make ever more money, it'd be distasteful, but at least it'd be honest. Telling GW employees they need to be hard-nosed about compensation because they're a disposable tool to be valued via hands-off cold, rational economic calculation, not a valued team member may be true, but it also goes against every single aspect of the corporate culture they've been immersed in.


Don't get me wrong, I agree with you 100% on the hypocrisy. The thing is, though, every worker owes it to themselves to be savvy. The company is not your friend. It never will be. It will always sublimate your needs over the needs of the organization. Without question. Never take a company's dedication to culture at its word. Judge it on merit and action.

 Gert wrote:
I disagree with this whole "you should know that a company won't treat you well" idea because it's not a universal truth. My first job was OK but did terribly when it came to respecting concerns brought up by me about the abusive behaviour of an adult colleague and they handled it so poorly that when the individual left I was essentially blamed for their departure despite being 17 years old and in my first ever job.
My current job, while a pain and very stressful, took my mental health very seriously and was very generous with both recovery time and phased return to work. Similarly, ​when I caught Covid and got hit pretty hard, they were very chilled about making sure I was 100% before coming back to work and were even offering extra breaks if I needed them.

TLDR, nobody should expect to be treated poorly by their employer nor should they have to put up with it if they are.


Of course not all companies are equal in terms of how they treat workers. However, as a worker, you will always be better off if you play to and understand the truth about the relationship you are engaged in with your employer. If you don't like what you've got, literally your only recourse is to either demand more on pain of leaving the organization, or go somewhere else that will provide what you want.

Someday, we might have stronger collective bargaining protections in the west again, but until then this what we have.


Yeah, I loved the part in the blog where he was like "GW is serious about culture because they talk about culture a lot". Feth, sorry, but that's naive. In my experience, companies that harp on and on about culture are most likely to have rampant culture issues.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




That was a joke he was making about how they're all talk and no substance. Which is easy to see from where he is now, but not so easy to see when you're immersed in it and your colleagues have all drunk the same kool-aid you're being urged to drink.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/28 17:10:24


 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Halifax

Racerguy180 wrote:
Nurglitch wrote:I think the crazy brigade screaming nonsense about GW is a separate problem.


Not a problem, a cancer that needs to be excised promptly!


Meh, Dakka's house, Dakka's rules.

   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut



London

 Lord of Deeds wrote:


Remember change starts with you!

In addition to game developers, here are some other companies who you probably also want to avoid due to their alleged sub-par compensation and inhumane treatment of employees or use child and even slave labor.

Apple
Microsoft
Samsung
LG
De Beers
Toyota
GM
Ford
Fiat Chrysler
Daimler Benz
BMW
Tesla

Most Grocery store chains and retailers (Walmart, Kroger, Macys, etc.)
Almost every major clothing manufacturer (Nike, Adidas, etc.)
Every fast food and convenience store chain (McDonalds, Starbucks, Yum Brands, etc.)



Ironically in the context of this discussion, James would have got paid more by most of the companies you have listed above.
   
Made in us
Sneaky Striking Scorpion




North Carolina

yukishiro1 wrote:
That was a joke he was making about how they're all talk and no substance. Which is easy to see from where he is now, but not so easy to see when you're immersed in it and your colleagues have all drunk the same kool-aid you're being urged to drink.


Right -- but my point was that this blog was written at least partially to placate those still at GW presumably still drinking the kool aid. Again, it's baffling to me. You'd think the company that started in part by satirizing Thatcher in the 80s would have some understanding of the importance of labor solidarity.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut



London

 Azreal13 wrote:


However, for GW giving their models a context for use is a vital part of their money making process, and without it their cashflow falters. For the product they design, make and sell, games are crucial. It's right there in the name.



I think they have minimised the quality in the games part as much as they can, but still without the games they are dead in the water. The models aren't the quality associated with collector stuff like Gundams and are designed for bulk purchase (outside of stuff like BloodBowl). GW would love it to be just about the models, and 99% of the time it probably is, but without them that 99% would drop like a stone as we would be playing other games and no doubt buying those companies models.
   
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Dakka Veteran






Good blog.
   
Made in gb
The Daemon Possessing Fulgrim's Body





Devon, UK

The_Real_Chris wrote:
 Azreal13 wrote:


However, for GW giving their models a context for use is a vital part of their money making process, and without it their cashflow falters. For the product they design, make and sell, games are crucial. It's right there in the name.



I think they have minimised the quality in the games part as much as they can, but still without the games they are dead in the water. The models aren't the quality associated with collector stuff like Gundams and are designed for bulk purchase (outside of stuff like BloodBowl). GW would love it to be just about the models, and 99% of the time it probably is, but without them that 99% would drop like a stone as we would be playing other games and no doubt buying those companies models.


Sales training is littered with adages and acronyms, ultimately their most useful purpose is to allow other sales people to spot the bullshitters because they're the ones who regurgitate them like they mean anything, when often they're not nearly nuanced enough or basically only work in isolated instances and have no relevance to someone trying to create repeat business rather than just close one sale.

That said, one of those, "sell the sizzle, not the sausage" just fits GW's approach nicely. The games are the sizzle that allow them to shift high volumes of highly processed pork.

(Ok, so it isn't a perfect fit. )

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/28 17:38:23


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 gorgon wrote:
Blastaar wrote:
Calling jobs "stepping stones" is a way of avoiding paying your employees fairly. "Getting your feet wet" so that later on you can find a job with appropriate pay means you are being exploited, much like artists being expected to work for free for "exposure."


However, this is how it works with many fields, including creative ones. The hours might be long in addition to the low pay. But you don't stay in that job. They're temporary. You use the company to learn and pad out your resume, and then promptly take that training elsewhere. It's mutual exploitation. The company usually understands that there will be a lot of churn in those roles...and are usually okay with it because there's more demand for those jobs than supply. I'm sure the demand for roles at GW are very high, which allows them to pay a very low wage.







"This is how it is" does not make it right. Creatives being underpaid despite the fact that their work is immensely profitable is especially egregious. People should be paid fairly for the work they perform. Period. Workers need to organize and stand up for themselves.
   
Made in ca
Oberleutnant




Hogtown

Blastaar wrote:
 gorgon wrote:
Blastaar wrote:
Calling jobs "stepping stones" is a way of avoiding paying your employees fairly. "Getting your feet wet" so that later on you can find a job with appropriate pay means you are being exploited, much like artists being expected to work for free for "exposure."


However, this is how it works with many fields, including creative ones. The hours might be long in addition to the low pay. But you don't stay in that job. They're temporary. You use the company to learn and pad out your resume, and then promptly take that training elsewhere. It's mutual exploitation. The company usually understands that there will be a lot of churn in those roles...and are usually okay with it because there's more demand for those jobs than supply. I'm sure the demand for roles at GW are very high, which allows them to pay a very low wage.


"This is how it is" does not make it right. Creatives being underpaid despite the fact that their work is immensely profitable is especially egregious. People should be paid fairly for the work they perform. Period. Workers need to organize and stand up for themselves.


He didn't say it was right, he was giving very good advice. On your second point, what exactly is fair pay for a job that thousands of people will do to the same or comparable standard for the same or less money tomorrow?

High demand, low supply jobs will always pay poorly.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/07/28 18:51:17


 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




 Las wrote:
Blastaar wrote:
 gorgon wrote:
Blastaar wrote:
Calling jobs "stepping stones" is a way of avoiding paying your employees fairly. "Getting your feet wet" so that later on you can find a job with appropriate pay means you are being exploited, much like artists being expected to work for free for "exposure."


However, this is how it works with many fields, including creative ones. The hours might be long in addition to the low pay. But you don't stay in that job. They're temporary. You use the company to learn and pad out your resume, and then promptly take that training elsewhere. It's mutual exploitation. The company usually understands that there will be a lot of churn in those roles...and are usually okay with it because there's more demand for those jobs than supply. I'm sure the demand for roles at GW are very high, which allows them to pay a very low wage.


"This is how it is" does not make it right. Creatives being underpaid despite the fact that their work is immensely profitable is especially egregious. People should be paid fairly for the work they perform. Period. Workers need to organize and stand up for themselves.


He didn't say it was right, he was giving very good advice. On your second point, what exactly is fair pay for a job that thousands of people will do to the same or comparable standard for the same or less money tomorrow?

High demand, low supply jobs will always pay poorly.


That's capitalist thinking. Supply has nothing to do with a living wage and the value of a person's labor.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Halifax

It has plenty to do with finding an income in today's regulated market rather than the utopia in your head.

   
Made in at
Discriminating Warrior





Austria

we europeans are to socialist anyway

yet having a higher minimum wage, unions etc. helps with that

just because there are many people searching for a job does not mean you can get away with paying less

Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise

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 gorgon wrote:
It's mutual exploitation.



No it's just regular, one-sided exploitation. "do it for the exposure' is a laughable, demonstrable myth, there is no golden, stable, solid career at the other end of any path that starts with unsustainably low-paid or no-paid jobs that you have to 'do for the exposure'.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Las wrote:
Blastaar wrote:
 gorgon wrote:
Blastaar wrote:
Calling jobs "stepping stones" is a way of avoiding paying your employees fairly. "Getting your feet wet" so that later on you can find a job with appropriate pay means you are being exploited, much like artists being expected to work for free for "exposure."


However, this is how it works with many fields, including creative ones. The hours might be long in addition to the low pay. But you don't stay in that job. They're temporary. You use the company to learn and pad out your resume, and then promptly take that training elsewhere. It's mutual exploitation. The company usually understands that there will be a lot of churn in those roles...and are usually okay with it because there's more demand for those jobs than supply. I'm sure the demand for roles at GW are very high, which allows them to pay a very low wage.


"This is how it is" does not make it right. Creatives being underpaid despite the fact that their work is immensely profitable is especially egregious. People should be paid fairly for the work they perform. Period. Workers need to organize and stand up for themselves.


He didn't say it was right, he was giving very good advice. On your second point, what exactly is fair pay for a job that thousands of people will do to the same or comparable standard for the same or less money tomorrow?

High demand, low supply jobs will always pay poorly.


If you're OK with the quality of the output of those high-demand careers being absolute gak because the people working them are dealing with the stress of being in a poverty job, that system works fine.

I was over here thinking that most people were frustrated with how obviously gakky the products coming out of the entertainment industry, music industry, games industry, etc were, to the point where it's pretty much common practice to track down the poor sods who work those jobs and dox them/threaten to murder them/harass them off the internet because the video game they got paid 10$ an hour to work 80 hours a week on released and, surprise surprise, was as full of bugs and problems as you'd expect the product of someone being slowly worked to death and starved to be.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/28 19:20:31


"I can't believe all these tryhard WAACs out there just care about winning all the time when it's supposed to be a game for fun!!!!!!! Also here's my 27 page essay on why marines are OP and Orkz should get a bunch of OP rules so I can win more games

-the_scotsman"

-ERJAK 
   
 
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