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winterman wrote:Lictors and alot of tyranid stuff will be interesting to see play out. Yeah they can assault after deployment, but have to weather defensive fire to do so (and remember, cover is only gonna give you a 5+ so 4+ with stealth). Proper deployment by your opponents will make that hard to do without getting blasted off the board. Its still a very cool change overall though and makes for games where a lot happens (what used to take 2+ player turns can happen in 1).

Personally I think that although all armies are going to be rethinked, tyranids are going to be more so espically null deployment and the swarmlord (he looking like one of the best HQ in game right now )

Slayer le boucher wrote:Saw something interessting in the PDF about the Codexes updates, in the Update on Grey Knights, there is a line who says " Page 54, ignore the Deamonbane rule altogether"...

First i though why, because thats the thing about Nemesis FW no?, then i checked the new rules regarding Force Weapons and saw that they now inflicted ID(2), wich means that a EW(1) models loses 2 Wounds, i'm i correct?

They lose 3 wounds total: 1 regular + 2 ID, because ID(2) completely overides EW(1).

oldone wrote: the swarmlord (he looking like one of the best HQ in game right now )

Why?

Maelstrom808 wrote:

Slayer le boucher wrote:Saw something interessting in the PDF about the Codexes updates, in the Update on Grey Knights, there is a line who says " Page 54, ignore the Deamonbane rule altogether"...

First i though why, because thats the thing about Nemesis FW no?, then i checked the new rules regarding Force Weapons and saw that they now inflicted ID(2), wich means that a EW(1) models loses 2 Wounds, i'm i correct?

They lose 3 wounds total: 1 regular + 2 ID, because ID(2) completely overides EW(1).

What, no. The level of ID has no bearing on the number of wounds lost. The only way ID can inflict +2 wounds is if its Strength beats Toughness by 5.

oldone wrote:How's do psyker stop overs powers? Is there anything about mutiple attempts?

If anyone casts a psychic power within 12" of any of your psykers, you roll a d6. The psychic power does nothing on a 5 or 6. This may only be done once ever for each individual power cast.

oldone wrote:Is there any change to shadow in the warp ?

Nope. Tyranids still force a Psychic Check on a 3d6.

oldone wrote:What level do of instant death do boneswords do? And the Swarmlord?

Unless specified, all Instant Death is lvl1. Boneswords are lvl1.

oldone wrote:What level of EW does Logan grimmar have? Space wolf chapter.master (wasn't sure on spelling)

Unless specified, all Eternal Warrior is lvl1.

oldone wrote:And finally how has the death leaper change ?

A lot. It has Veiled(3), it prevents enemies within 12" of using many cover-ignoring abilities, it acts as a beacon for deep strike, it can assault when deep striked (deep struck?), the really high WS actually matters, its 3Wd actually matters, and the new reserve rules make it such that you have much better control of when it appears.

lord_blackfang wrote:

Maelstrom808 wrote:

Slayer le boucher wrote:Saw something interessting in the PDF about the Codexes updates, in the Update on Grey Knights, there is a line who says " Page 54, ignore the Deamonbane rule altogether"...

First i though why, because thats the thing about Nemesis FW no?, then i checked the new rules regarding Force Weapons and saw that they now inflicted ID(2), wich means that a EW(1) models loses 2 Wounds, i'm i correct?

They lose 3 wounds total: 1 regular + 2 ID, because ID(2) completely overides EW(1).

What, no. The level of ID has no bearing on the number of wounds lost. The only way ID can inflict +2 wounds is if its Strength beats Toughness by 5.

Gah, you are right. I keep f-ing that up, and I have no idea why.

Absolutionis wrote:

oldone wrote:How's do psyker stop overs powers? Is there anything about mutiple attempts?

If anyone casts a psychic power within 12" of any of your psykers, you roll a d6. The psychic power does nothing on a 5 or 6. This may only be done once ever for each individual power cast.
...

So you're saying it's a one time use?

Absolutionis wrote:

oldone wrote:How's do psyker stop overs powers? Is there anything about mutiple attempts?

If anyone casts a psychic power within 12" of any of your psykers, you roll a d6. The psychic power does nothing on a 5 or 6. This may only be done once ever for each individual power cast.

It's 24"

I did notice that Tyranids, Eldar and a few other psychic powers have some nerfs related to how long they last. Catalyst now lasts until the end of the game cycle -- go 2nd and you won't have it in your opponents turn. Fortune now lasts until the end of the player turn. etc.

I dunno how I feel about that, unless somethings get tweaked at final release.

AresX8 wrote:

Absolutionis wrote:

oldone wrote:How's do psyker stop overs powers? Is there anything about mutiple attempts?

If anyone casts a psychic power within 12" of any of your psykers, you roll a d6. The psychic power does nothing on a 5 or 6. This may only be done once ever for each individual power cast.
...

So you're saying it's a one time use?

You can do it more than once in a turn/game, but it means that if you are trying to cast a power within range of 5 psykers, only one can attempt to shut you down, and if he fails the rest are out of luck till you cast another power.

N.I.B. wrote:

oldone wrote: the swarmlord (he looking like one of the best HQ in game right now )

Why?

The Swarmlord has:
+18" Shadow in the Warp
+Nullifies Psychic Powers on a 5+ within 12"
+Does not get gigastomped by Instant Death anymore
+Arguably may get double strength in close combat (S10) due to being an MC
+It's WS of 9 means most enemies will be hitting it on a 5+ or 6+ in CC
+Paroxysm got slightly better

Not the best overall, but got improved a lot primarily due to its Psychic Counter and resistance to ID.

winterman wrote:I did notice that Tyranids, Eldar and a few other psychic powers have some nerfs related to how long they last. Catalyst now lasts until the end of the game cycle -- go 2nd and you won't have it in your opponents turn. Fortune now lasts until the end of the player turn. etc.

I dunno how I feel about that, unless somethings get tweaked at final release.

Good catch. I agree the timing on those is pretty funky. I'd expect those to get get fixed in a final version or at least FAQ'd....or I hope so. It does seem like an intentional nerf.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Absolutionis wrote:

N.I.B. wrote:

oldone wrote: the swarmlord (he looking like one of the best HQ in game right now )

Why?

The Swarmlord has:
+18" Shadow in the Warp
+Nullifies Psychic Powers on a 5+ within 12" <---- 24"
+Does not get gigastomped by Instant Death anymore
+Arguably may get double strength in close combat (S10) due to being an MC
+It's WS of 9 means most enemies will be hitting it on a 5+ or 6+ in CC
+Paroxysm got slightly better

Not the best overall, but got improved a lot primarily due to its Psychic Counter and resistance to ID.

Absolutionis wrote:

N.I.B. wrote:

oldone wrote: the swarmlord (he looking like one of the best HQ in game right now )

Why?

The Swarmlord has:
+18" Shadow in the Warp
+Nullifies Psychic Powers on a 5+ within 12"
+Does not get gigastomped by Instant Death anymore
+Arguably may get double strength in close combat (S10) due to being an MC
+It's WS of 9 means most enemies will be hitting it on a 5+ or 6+ in CC
+Paroxysm got slightly better

Not the best overall, but got improved a lot primarily due to its Psychic Counter and resistance to ID.

And will die horribly to directed fire if it has the same save as the unit it's with.

Except Guards give Shielded.

Nice. Just let him play with 10 DCAs then; they'll either tie him up the whole game or kill him.

Let's see if I understand this right.

There are two kinds of instant death now.
The first ID is when a weapon's strength is at least 4 greater than the enemies toughness. If it's 4 greater, 1 extra wound. 5 greater 2 extra wounds. and so fourth.
This is circumvented by having any level of eternal warrior because it makes you immune to the Instant death rule.

The second ID is as a weapon property, a particularly nasty disintegrating cannon or some such.
This weapon deals an additional wound of damage on any target it wounds, based on the strength of it's rule. ID (1) deals one additional wound.
Unless the strength of the weapon would already deal more wounds than this ID rule would cause. Such as firing a S10 ID(1) weapon at a T3 guardsman. He would take the excess wounds from the S of the weapon, and since they were more than the ID(1) rule, it is ignored for now.
If it was say, a S3 ID(1) weapon, it'd cause 1 additional wound on a hit, since the S couldn't possible outweigh it.
Eternal warrior may completely negate the strength based ID rule, but you must have a level of EW equal to the level of ID a weapon possess to ignore that effect.
An EW(2) with T4 get's blasted by a S10 ID(3) weapon. (probably mounted on a titan or something, jeez) His EW rule thankfully protects him from the 3 additional wounds he would take thanks to it being S10 over his T4. But since it also has ID(3) he is still focred to take 3 additional wounds since his EW(2) isn't strong enough to ignore the weapons property. He thus takes 4 wounds total.

Does that sound right?

agnosto wrote:Nice. Just let him play with 10 DCAs then; they'll either tie him up the whole game or kill him.

I really don't think they'll tie him up, since he forces re-rolls on invuln saves and will go first and they will have a heck of a time trying to hit him now. He's just way overpriced though.

agnosto wrote:Nice. Just let him play with 10 DCAs then; they'll either tie him up the whole game or kill him.

Not if my Battlewagon runs them down first.

otakutaylor wrote:Let's see if I understand this right.

There are two kinds of instant death now.
The first ID is when a weapon's strength is at least 4 greater than the enemies toughness. If it's 4 greater, 1 extra wound. 5 greater 2 extra wounds. and so fourth.
This is circumvented by having any level of eternal warrior because it makes you immune to the Instant death rule.

The second ID is as a weapon property, a particularly nasty disintegrating cannon or some such.
This weapon deals an additional wound of damage on any target it wounds, based on the strength of it's rule. ID (1) deals one additional wound.
Unless the strength of the weapon would already deal more wounds than this ID rule would cause. Such as firing a S10 ID(1) weapon at a T3 guardsman. He would take the excess wounds from the S of the weapon, and since they were more than the ID(1) rule, it is ignored for now.
If it was say, a S3 ID(1) weapon, it'd cause 1 additional wound on a hit, since the S couldn't possible outweigh it.
Eternal warrior may completely negate the strength based ID rule, but you must have a level of EW equal to the level of ID a weapon possess to ignore that effect.
An EW(2) with T4 get's blasted by a S10 ID(3) weapon. (probably mounted on a titan or something, jeez) His EW rule thankfully protects him from the 3 additional wounds he would take thanks to it being S10 over his T4. But since it also has ID(3) he is still focred to take 3 additional wounds since his EW(2) isn't strong enough to ignore the weapons property. He thus takes 4 wounds total.

Does that sound right?

Looks like it's all solid, except with ID (1-3), you only deal one extra wound regardless of the level. The level's only purpose is to overcome levels of EW. This is what I kept messing up earlier.

otakutaylor wrote:Let's see if I understand this right.

There are two kinds of instant death now.
The first ID is when a weapon's strength is at least 4 greater than the enemies toughness. If it's 4 greater, 1 extra wound. 5 greater 2 extra wounds. and so fourth.
This is circumvented by having any level of eternal warrior because it makes you immune to the Instant death rule.

I think this is the easiest way of looking at it:

1) Weapons that beat Toughness by 4 or more deal additional ID wounds
2) Weapons with the ID special ability always deal at least 1 extra wound regardless of Toughness, but may deal more if their Strength is high enough
3) Eternal Warrior negates all extra wounds from Instant Death of equal or lower level

That covers it all, I think. Just make sure not to confuse ID level with the number of wounds it inflicts, they are two different things that have nothing to do with each other. The level is only used to determine whether ID overcomes EW. The number of wounds depends solely on the comparison of Strength vs Toughness, except that weapons with the ID special property deal 1 additional wound even if their Strength isn't high enough.

otakutaylor wrote:Let's see if I understand this right.

There are two kinds of instant death now.
The first ID is when a weapon's strength is at least 4 greater than the enemies toughness. If it's 4 greater, 1 extra wound. 5 greater 2 extra wounds. and so fourth.
This is circumvented by having any level of eternal warrior because it makes you immune to the Instant death rule.

The second ID is as a weapon property, a particularly nasty disintegrating cannon or some such.
This weapon deals an additional wound of damage on any target it wounds, based on the strength of it's rule. ID (1) deals one additional wound.
Unless the strength of the weapon would already deal more wounds than this ID rule would cause. Such as firing a S10 ID(1) weapon at a T3 guardsman. He would take the excess wounds from the S of the weapon, and since they were more than the ID(1) rule, it is ignored for now.
If it was say, a S3 ID(1) weapon, it'd cause 1 additional wound on a hit, since the S couldn't possible outweigh it.
Eternal warrior may completely negate the strength based ID rule, but you must have a level of EW equal to the level of ID a weapon possess to ignore that effect.
An EW(2) with T4 get's blasted by a S10 ID(3) weapon. (probably mounted on a titan or something, jeez) His EW rule thankfully protects him from the 3 additional wounds he would take thanks to it being S10 over his T4. But since it also has ID(3) he is still focred to take 3 additional wounds since his EW(2) isn't strong enough to ignore the weapons property. He thus takes 4 wounds total.

Does that sound right?

Somewhat. There's really only one kind of Instant Death.
The Strength-four-greater-than-toughness Weapons act as if they had Instant Death (1) with the additional benefit of dealing extra wounds. The extra wounds issue is not innate on anything else.

There is no such thing as ID(3)

There's two levels of ID:
ID(1) is caused by weapons that say as such and special rules (such as double strength).
ID(2) is caused by weapons that say as such and special rules (such as blast weapons on swarms)

There are three levels of EW:
EW(1) ignores ID(1).
EW(2) ignores ID(2) on down
EW(3) simply can never be circumvented

That being said, yes. A model with a Force Weapon (ID2 when channeled) at Strength 7 hitting a T3 model with EW(1) would deal 2 wounds.
EDIT: it's two wounds.

ID3 may not be on anything currently in this ruleset, but it exists and is available for future additions.

Absolutionis wrote:A model with a Force Weapon (ID2 when channeled) at Strength 7 hitting a T3 model with EW(1) would deal 3 wounds.

Two wounds. One for the hit and one for exceeding Toughness by 4.

Absolutionis wrote:

N.I.B. wrote:

oldone wrote: the swarmlord (he looking like one of the best HQ in game right now )

Why?

The Swarmlord has:
+18" Shadow in the Warp

18" Synapse range. Shadow in the Warp is still 12".

+Nullifies Psychic Powers on a 5+ within 12"

24"

+Paroxysm got slightly better

How so? As you can't shoot it before you assault anymore because the assault and shooting phases flipped, I'd say it worse.

Ahhhhh, ok. I got it now.
Silly me getting all mixed up thinking that ID(2-3) dealt that many wounds.

winterman wrote:I did notice that Tyranids, Eldar and a few other psychic powers have some nerfs related to how long they last. Catalyst now lasts until the end of the game cycle -- go 2nd and you won't have it in your opponents turn. Fortune now lasts until the end of the player turn. etc.

I dunno how I feel about that, unless somethings get tweaked at final release.

With the talk on the Swarmlord, I looked it up and they also screwed up the Swarmleader rule.

Page 56 - Swarm Leader
At the beginning of its Shooting phase, the Swarmlord
can bestow one of the following special abilities onto
any one friendly unit within 18": Acute Senses,
Preferred Enemy or Furious Charge. These benefits last
until the end of the unit’s next turn or the end of the
current turn if the unit acts in the same turn as the
Swarmlord.

Redemption wrote:

Absolutionis wrote:

N.I.B. wrote:

oldone wrote: the swarmlord (he looking like one of the best HQ in game right now )

Why?

The Swarmlord has:
+18" Shadow in the Warp

18" Synapse range. Shadow in the Warp is still 12".

+Nullifies Psychic Powers on a 5+ within 12"

24"

+Paroxysm got slightly better

How so? As you can't shoot it before you assault anymore because the assault and shooting phases flipped, I'd say it worse.

True, true, and arguable.

The utility is lost on your turn regarding Paroxysm, but the WS1 is devastating because they're hitting you on 6's.

lord_blackfang wrote:

Absolutionis wrote:A model with a Force Weapon (ID2 when channeled) at Strength 7 hitting a T3 model with EW(1) would deal 3 wounds.

Two wounds. One for the hit and one for exceeding Toughness by 4.

Oh yes. You're right. It's not double anymore. Pardon me, it's a static if-you-exceed-by-four.

Agamemnon2 wrote:Hm, 4chan seems to think this is fake because of a very amusing detail: it's written in American English.

How so? Can you give some examples?

I didn't notice anything obviously "American" when I was reading through it, and while I could easily have missed something, I did a few quick searches and came up with nothing on them, either. Armour, flavour, and colour are in the document, but no armor, flavor, or color. I didn't find any oddities in common phrases like "to hand" vs. "at hand" or "turn about" vs. "turn around", and there was consistent use of "dice" as singular as well as plural.

However, I did notice a few places that struck me as written by a non-native-English speaker, where the word order was not grammatically incorrect, but more consistent with another language, rather than conversational English.

- H8

With the talk on the Swarmlord, I looked it up and they also screwed up the Swarmleader rule.

So... the only way to get Furious Charge (and use it), according to that amendment, would be to cast it on a unit, then have the unit not do anything that turn, then have the unit charge in your next turn?

if the rules were going to be this big of a change maybe it is smart of them to release an unofficial version that might have been changed a bit just so players can absorb some of these rules.