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Agamemnon2 wrote:Hm, 4chan seems to think this is fake because of a very amusing detail: it's written in American English.

4chan will rot your brain.

Wrath wrote:

Agamemnon2 wrote:Hm, 4chan seems to think this is fake because of a very amusing detail: it's written in American English.

4chan will rot your brain.

Nah, it'll just make you very very cynical

and then rot your brain

N.I.B. wrote:I'm confused about stratagems - how do they work if I want to go second?

When I win the roll and have to start bidding?

When I lose the roll and bid second?

As far as I can see, when you lose you get the number of strategem points of the winner and the winner gets 25 percent of them if he rolls a 6 on a D6 (which seems to be a compensation for the initiative roll).

N.I.B. wrote:I'm confused about stratagems - how do they work if I want to go second?

When I win the roll and have to start bidding?

When I lose the roll and bid second?

Two players roll off to see who gets to choose deployment. The loser then bids stratagem points. The other player then either raises, or bails out. The player that bails out goes second, but is able to then spend the stratagem points. The other player is able to go first.

The player who want's to go first, has to essentially hold on to that first turn if he REALLY wants it. The other player has to try and tempt it from him. If the one player really, REALLY want's to go first, the other player will have the stratagems to potentially counter what the other player may have in store (since they want to go first so badly). Conversely, if you are robbed of the first turn, you will at least have stratagems to make up for it.

While you could easily just go "A MILLION STRATAGEM POINTS" to force the player to bail out, granting you the first turn, you have just awarded him a million stratagem points. As such, the player who raises first, doesn't want to raise too high either. It's an interesting balance.

Kharrak wrote:

N.I.B. wrote:I'm confused about stratagems - how do they work if I want to go second?

When I win the roll and have to start bidding?

When I lose the roll and bid second?

Two players roll off to see who gets to choose deployment. The loser then bids stratagem points. The other player then either raises, or bails out. The player that bails out goes second, but is able to then spend the stratagem points. The other player is able to go first.

The player who want's to go first, has to essentially hold on to that first turn if he REALLY wants it. The other player has to try and tempt it from him. If the one player really, REALLY want's to go first, the other player will have the stratagems to potentially counter what the other player may have in store (since they want to go first so badly). Conversely, if you are robbed of the first turn, you will at least have stratagems to make up for it.

While you could easily just go "A MILLION STRATAGEM POINTS" to force the player to bail out, granting you the first turn, you have just awarded him a million stratagem points. As such, the player who raises first, doesn't want to raise too high either. It's an interesting balance.

Pretty much dead on, only the winner of the deployment zone roll bids first, not the loser.

Pretty much dead on, only the winner of the deployment zone roll bids first, not the loser.

Neither bids first , you secretely write SP bids and open at one time.

Beckett wrote:

Pretty much dead on, only the winner of the deployment zone roll bids first, not the loser.

Neither bids first , you secretely write SP bids and open at one time.

Against IG, I'd bid at least 6 points to get access to camouflage.

Arrr, I was mistaken, yeah. Player who won the deployment roll off makes the first bid, and the second player then follows suit.

Nothing about the bidding process is mentioned to be done in secrecy - it's a back-and-forth transaction. Poker chips would be useful, or simply placing dice in the center of the table. Think like an ante in a poker game.

These 'rules' are interesting, but I think they're fake. Something about them seems very odd. It's like someone took every rumor and mashed them into a rules set. Everything in these 'rules' works exactly as how rumors have been described. It's just a little too implausible for me to believe. I think who ever did do this has a future in game design. There are definitely a lot of good mechanics in there.

wuestenfux wrote:Against IG, I'd bid at least 6 points to get access to camouflage.

All sorts of cheeky shenanigans are possible with the gambit, I'd bet 5 points just so he has to say 6 points, knowing I'll bail and take that stratagem .

oni wrote:These 'rules' are interesting, but I think they're fake. Something about them seems very odd. It's like someone took every rumor and mashed them into a rules set. Everything in these 'rules' works exactly as how rumors have been described. It's just a little too implausible for me to believe. I think who ever did do this has a future in game design. There are definitely a lot of good mechanics in there.

Not all of the rules exactly match the rumors but they are exceeding close.

Possibilities:
1: big fat phoney spent time getting them to werk together.
2: These are where the rumors came from.

Either one is just as likely as the other.

See, oni, that's the problem for me that makes me think they ARE real - - The fact that the rules are well-put together, cohesive, and in many cases clear as to how units interact (as long as you give it a thorough read) tells me that it's had to have been done by a game designer. A fan making up their own set of rules, going just by rumors, would have so much trouble keeping them as tight as these it wouldn't be a very fun endeavor, I don't imagine.

The inclusion of Tesla weapons in the armory, talk of a tyranid 'cerebore' in the transport section (possible new 'nid kit next month), mention of super-sonic rules and the fact that 'heavy' vehicles are superheavies with 1 Structure point (necron Monolith has unit type Skimmer, Heavy), among other niggling facts show too much foresight to be a random rumor-monger's work.

Time will tell, I will be getting in some games with these rules myself (as my game group allows) and see just how well they play. Initial results from other people who have tried them out have all been positive, so at the bare minimum it'll be a good ruleset to have some fun games while waiting for 6th edition proper to come out, as well as give my tyranids some table time again without being wiped off of it.

So I have a null deployment army and want to go second. Unfortunately I win the deployment roll, and have to bid first. I bid 0 points. My opponent can then bail out and force me to go first anyway?

What if we both bail out at zero points?

Awe, the KFF save is reduced to s 5+ for vehicles. A lot of people will be upset.

N.I.B. wrote:So I have a null deployment army and want to go second. Unfortunately I win the deployment roll, and have to bid first. I bid 0 points. My opponent can then bail out and force me to go first anyway?

What if we both bail out at zero points?

The winner of the bidding war actually chooses whether to go first or second. If you bid 0, and your opponent bails out (silly thing to do) then you get to say "OK, you go first, and You get zero stratagem points."


Automatically Appended Next Post:

zilegil wrote:Awe, the KFF save is reduced to s 5+ for vehicles. A lot of people will be upset.

Most cover saves for vehicles from special powers/rules is 5+ in all the newer codices. This just brings orks back to the status quo.

I think getting an automatic 12" run move every turn you're not going to be in CC, and an automatic 12" charge (16" with a waaaugh) will make green tide the better army to play than kanwall anyhow. No longer do you get cover saves just because you're getting shot at through a unit, either, so if you do a "look out, sergeant!" to get a cover save from the killa kanz, every 5+ you make will put a critical hit on the kanz..not a good use of walkers IMO.


these rules are going to shake up EVERYBODY's current competitive lists, though, so don't feel too bad about it as an ork player.

I'm not overly sad to see the the KFF get a downgrade, it was such a disgustingly good bit of kit that it became almost an auto-include in any list, competitive or not.

Only reason I didn't run one is because in a 'proppa' DeffWing, you can't have anything other than mega armoured units and wagons, so I 'had' to take two warbosses (though one was admittedly Gazzy).

tetrisphreak wrote:

N.I.B. wrote:So I have a null deployment army and want to go second. Unfortunately I win the deployment roll, and have to bid first. I bid 0 points. My opponent can then bail out and force me to go first anyway?

What if we both bail out at zero points?

The winner of the bidding war actually chooses whether to go first or second. If you bid 0, and your opponent bails out (silly thing to do) then you get to say "OK, you go first, and You get zero stratagem points."

Actually...it's conflicting in the rules...

CHOOSE DEPLOYMENT ZONE wrote:The players roll-off. The winner can choose his
deployment zone first.

DEPLOY ARMIES wrote:The player that has chosen the deployment zone deploys first.

WHO GOES FIRST? wrote:The player who won the tactical gambit bid starts
game cycle 1 with his first turn.

TACTICAL GAMBIT wrote:The player with the highest bid can
decide who goes first and where he deploys.

EDIT: Well, deployment is conflicting, not who goes first
first deploys first.

oni wrote:These 'rules' are interesting, but I think they're fake. Something about them seems very odd. It's like someone took every rumor and mashed them into a rules set. Everything in these 'rules' works exactly as how rumors have been described. It's just a little too implausible for me to believe. I think who ever did do this has a future in game design. There are definitely a lot of good mechanics in there.

Why do you discount the simplest explanation?

Those other rumors may have been correct

Right first off, welcome ladies and gentlemen to the edition of xeno for the first few games, tyranids, dark eldar , eldar , tua and necrons got substanly better in these rules but I have a few inquires into the rules and the tyranids FAQ :
How's do psyker stop overs powers? Is there anything about mutiple attempts?
Is there any change to shadow in the warp ?
What level do of instant death do boneswords do? And the Swarmlord?
What level of EW does Logan grimmar have? Space wolf chapter.master (wasn't sure on spelling)
And finally how has the death leaper change ?
Thank you for any help you can give me

oldone wrote:Right first off, welcome ladies and gentlemen to the edition of xeno for the first few games, tyranids, dark eldar , eldar , tua and necrons got substanly better in these rules but I have a few inquires into the rules and the tyranids FAQ :
How's do psyker stop overs powers? Is there anything about mutiple attempts?

Psychic Counter
Model Type: Psychic, Disembarked
Psykers can try to counter enemy powers by
tapping into the warp and draining the energy
that charges the enemy psyker’s power or use a
direct psychic attack to distract him. Psykers
embarked on a transport cannot perform a
Psychic Counter.

If an enemy psyker is using one of his powers
within 24” of any psyker of your own, you can try
to cancel the power. Roll a D6. If the result is 5 or
higher, the psychic power is nullified and does not
take effect that turn. If you have several psykers
in range, or one of the psykers has a special rule
or wargear to nullify enemy powers, you can only
start one attempt to stop the power. If several
players in a multi-player game want to nullify the
power, choose one player randomly to attempt
the psychic counter.

Is there any change to shadow in the warp ?

Not at this time.

What level do of instant death do boneswords do? And the Swarmlord?

If it's not specified, it's ID(1)

What level of EW does Logan grimmar have? Space wolf chapter.master (wasn't sure on spelling)

Again, if not specified, EW(1)

And finally how has the death leaper change ?

Big changes in Lictors in general. +1 reserve bonus works while they are in reserve, can assault after deepstriking, ID is not as harsh on them. The changes specific to Deathleaper are pretty much just rewording his stuff to fit into the new rules. The only one really worth mentioning is "Where is it?" gives him Veiled (3)

Thank you for any help you can give me

I really think that this version is in fact a leaked version because there are just too many indicators (albeit circumstantial) that point to it being a leaked 6th ed.

I wanted to compile them here but running back through 60 pages of people crying about either directed fire or making useless statements such as "well its either fake or real," makes this task daunting if not practically impossible without losing ones sanity. Yet those examples are there, and there are many of them!


The only arguments that I've heard that attempt to denounce that its a leaked version have been rather weak overall, citing examples like, "it cant be because these rules are too good or two different," and "oh its GW they don't care!"

These types of rebuttals are truly ridiculous! Why would they not care about making money! If the development staff and the financial department actually put their heads together I would say that this is what would come: a game that incorporates more varying models, templates, terrain, dice etc... while making the ruleset complex, streamlined and well just making sense!

If in fact this was a small group of people that came up with this, don't you think they would be out in the open by now taking credit for this and trying to talk to GW into making a bit of moolah?

Also, I may be a bit biased but I'm thinking that Orks took the biggest hit here. Yet Ork models sell because they're Ork models! They have always been the impulse army because they are very different yet striking models compared to GW's other lines.

So as much as I hate to say it (because I love orks dammit) I think that this is the real deal, and I think it was intentional, a beta or pre-feedback if you will. All around, It just makes sense from a business standpoint! (whether GW or any other).

And to those of you who think they need a 6-7 month time frame to print and ship copies of a new rule set at only 140 pages? C'mon! As editor of my college paper we would run to print 200,000 copies of a 20-30 page paper in a night! I don't see the time your talking about being at all relevant, and that this leak has plenty of time to garner criticism and feedback before a final copy goes to print.

A small 20-30 page newspaper in a local run is hardly a good comparison.

You're talking about a couple of hundred pages with fluff and images, likely in hardback and paperback. And millions of copies.

All of which need to be processed, packed and shipped globally.

You'd want them in stores at least 3-4 days before the release date.
To get the to the stores they need to be shipped from the printers, to a distributor. The Distributor needs to go through and sor t hte boxes to where they're going.
The Distributor then needs to ship from the main center to the local centers, overseas orders need to be shipped and will take several weeks to arrive.
Once they arrive at a local distribution center they need to be shipped to the store.

If you can print and finish 6,000,000 pages in a night, then lets assume a printing company has an average of 10,000,000 pages per day.
That would be 50,000 books worth of pages a day, and 350,000 books in a week. For a million copies that's a month in and of itself.

6 Months would be a rather good turn around for a global release like this.

I think many of us are just being cautious about this being a real leak. If it is, then finally it is the day when Tyranids get awesome again.

To keep things fair, you should always allow your
opponent to read your force roster before
starting to deploy the armies. In the same spirit,
always make clear to your opponent which squads
are embarked in which transport during the
game. Take the time to explain all the rules and
tricks of all your troops while deploying. You
want to win the game by outmaneuvering your
opponent and not by exploiting the fact that he is
unfamiliar with your Codex book.

Ovion wrote:A small 20-30 page newspaper in a local run is hardly a good comparison.

You're talking about a couple of hundred pages with fluff and images, likely in hardback and paperback. And millions of copies.

All of which need to be processed, packed and shipped globally.

You'd want them in stores at least 3-4 days before the release date.
To get the to the stores they need to be shipped from the printers, to a distributor. The Distributor needs to go through and sor t hte boxes to where they're going.
The Distributor then needs to ship from the main center to the local centers, overseas orders need to be shipped and will take several weeks to arrive.
Once they arrive at a local distribution center they need to be shipped to the store.

If you can print and finish 6,000,000 pages in a night, then lets assume a printing company has an average of 10,000,000 pages per day.
That would be 50,000 books worth of pages a day, and 350,000 books in a week. For a million copies that's a month in and of itself.

6 Months would be a rather good turn around for a global release like this.

I don't think the page count matters much, whether its 140 or 300- and I'm sure that both printing and shipping processes are a bit more streamlined these days, with the possibility of several companies handling both simultaneously. Also, keep in mind while say for example a single forgeworld order would take several weeks to ship to a US residence, Something of this magnitude would/should ship in far less time based on a contract for a bulk sized order. Regardless, I still believe there would be ample time to leak this and make further changes based on feedback and criticism etc... before the "rumored" release date in the summer.

but you know, maybe this was able to be leaked because the final copy has hit the printers... my god, the torture....

Thank you maelstrom808 , damit it appears if I can't use tonsvof +5 against psykers them again with shadow and +5 I.probably safe from psyker and will have to look up lictors then

Nids are pretty golden against psykers now.

Saw something interessting in the PDF about the Codexes updates, in the Update on Grey Knights, there is a line who says " Page 54, ignore the Deamonbane rule altogether"...

First i though why, because thats the thing about Nemesis FW no?, then i checked the new rules regarding Force Weapons and saw that they now inflicted ID(2), wich means that a EW(1) models loses 2 Wounds, i'm i correct?

Lictors and alot of tyranid stuff will be interesting to see play out. Yeah they can assault after deployment, but have to weather defensive fire to do so (and remember, cover is only gonna give you a 5+ so 4+ with stealth). Proper deployment by your opponents will make that hard to do without getting blasted off the board. Its still a very cool change overall though and makes for games where a lot happens (what used to take 2+ player turns can happen in 1).