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Woo, about time.

Still no ruddy Warlord though :(

Seriously, I need that to be released so I can get Book 5 at the same time. Buggered if I'm paying separate delivery for it!

Phutarf wrote:
Still no ruddy Warlord though :(

Seriously, I need that to be released so I can get Book 5 at the same time. Buggered if I'm paying separate delivery for it!

They apparently took dozens of orders and these things are cast to order. I wouldn't get too comfortable, you might be looking at a July, August or even a September release for the public.

You know what's strange? You get the occasional leak what GW is doing. There are rumors of upcoming kits, leaked rules, hell, some rumormongers go as far as post the whole release shedule for half a year in advance (accuracy of that is another topic but still). I don't think I've heard any FW-related rumors here at all. There's some speculation about who'll be in the next HH book and suchlike, but it's allways just that: speculation or wishlisting. I can't remember anyone mentioning what Legions will feature in the next book unless FW said what's coming (or named the planet/battle, but that's a trivial look-up from there).

 Deadshot wrote:

Phutarf wrote:
Still no ruddy Warlord though :(

Seriously, I need that to be released so I can get Book 5 at the same time. Buggered if I'm paying separate delivery for it!

They apparently took dozens of orders and these things are cast to order. I wouldn't get too comfortable, you might be looking at a July, August or even a September release for the public.

That's what I've heard as well. They've got a backlog on Warlord orders from the Open Day and are casting as fast as possible. August or September sounds about right which'll probably mean they're ready for a second showcase at Warhammer Fest and another huge amount of orders!

 Kosake wrote:
You know what's strange? You get the occasional leak what GW is doing. There are rumors of upcoming kits, leaked rules, hell, some rumormongers go as far as post the whole release shedule for half a year in advance (accuracy of that is another topic but still). I don't think I've heard any FW-related rumors here at all. There's some speculation about who'll be in the next HH book and suchlike, but it's allways just that: speculation or wishlisting. I can't remember anyone mentioning what Legions will feature in the next book unless FW said what's coming (or named the planet/battle, but that's a trivial look-up from there).

It's an interesting point, and one that I've thought about before. The main reason is basically because FW do all their stuff in-house - they control every step of manufacturing the models in the studio, the design team write the books in English, and everything is basically controlled in one place. In terms of rumours and leaked information, it's a perfect set-up; so few people know about what FW is doing, so any leaked information and rumours can easily be traced. That's why events like the open day (or any other event when FW are present) are so popular - it's basically the only time FW show us anything in advance, with the exception of their bulletins.

 Kosake wrote:
I don't think I've heard any FW-related rumors here at all.

Two reasons:

1) FW actually does previews well in advance, so there's a lot less stuff that is close enough to being done that rumors are likely but hasn't already been shown at one of FW's events. Most of the "main GW" rumors we get are the kind of stuff that FW openly discusses.

2) FW is much smaller than "main" GW so there are fewer people that have access to interesting information. And of course since FW does all of their own sales the "our store got the new releases a few days early" leaks are eliminated entirely.

Good thing I waited a week longer before making my huge order ...

 Peregrine wrote:
Oh look, some ultrasmurf guy is up for pre-order: http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/New_Stuff/ROBOUTE_GUILLIMAN.html

Anyone else think that he looks like Caesar?

 Enigwolf wrote:
Anyone else think that he looks like Caesar?

Well, the Ultramarines were always treated as Roman Space Marines ... just look at the typical latin names for the characters. Cesar is the most prominent Roman ever, so its only fitting that Gulliman looks like him.

That's kind of the point Enigwolf..

Thanks, Peregrine, Shrike. Good points and explain the issue quite sufficiently.

He is beautiful

 zedmeister wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:

Phutarf wrote:
Still no ruddy Warlord though :(

Seriously, I need that to be released so I can get Book 5 at the same time. Buggered if I'm paying separate delivery for it!

They apparently took dozens of orders and these things are cast to order. I wouldn't get too comfortable, you might be looking at a July, August or even a September release for the public.

That's what I've heard as well. They've got a backlog on Warlord orders from the Open Day and are casting as fast as possible. August or September sounds about right which'll probably mean they're ready for a second showcase at Warhammer Fest and another huge amount of orders!

Doesn't surprise me in the least. However, by this reasoning, the only way anyone is going to be able to order one any time soon (ish) is to go to an event and order it there - anyone NOT going to an event is having to wait until those orders are completed, by which time there's another event etc etc. I wish they'd just bung the bloody thing for orders on the site, then at least I could order one, regardless of when it's actually fulfilled.., ah well, at least I can carry on extra saving in the meantime...

I think that's the point lol, but you already knew that

Why are the character series getting progressively more expensive :/

Fireball wrote:

 Enigwolf wrote:
Anyone else think that he looks like Caesar?

Well, the Ultramarines were always treated as Roman Space Marines ... just look at the typical latin names for the characters. Cesar is the most prominent Roman ever, so its only fitting that Gulliman looks like him.

angelofvengeance wrote:That's kind of the point Enigwolf..

Formosa wrote:I think that's the point lol, but you already knew that

Yes, I already knew that, and expected it to happen. That said, I couldn't stop hoping that GW wouldn't take the obvious path.

 shamikebab wrote:
Why are the character series getting progressively more expensive :/

Yeah -.- although £3 more for Guilliman is a lot easier to swallow than £14 more for Sigismund...

 ImAGeek wrote:

 shamikebab wrote:
Why are the character series getting progressively more expensive :/

Yeah -.- although £3 more for Guilliman is a lot easier to swallow than £14 more for Sigismund...

That's still tough to swallow because I wanted to paint two versions of Sigismund - one as shown by FW and one "post HH" version with helmet. Now I will wait for the actual model to arrive and decide afterwards, if I still follow my original plan ...

 shamikebab wrote:
Why are the character series getting progressively more expensive :/

Well, going by the size of Guilliman's diorama, the only comparable model is Horus... who costs £62, compared to £65. *shrug* I guess it's mostly to do with the size of the model and the time it took to make.

[999 - Tzeentch approves of this post...]

 Fireball wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:

 shamikebab wrote:
Why are the character series getting progressively more expensive :/

Yeah -.- although £3 more for Guilliman is a lot easier to swallow than £14 more for Sigismund...

That's still tough to swallow because I wanted to paint two versions of Sigismund - one as shown by FW and one "post HH" version with helmet. Now I will wait for the actual model to arrive and decide afterwards, if I still follow my original plan ...

That's what I mean, the Sigismund one is tougher to swallow.

 Deadshot wrote:

 prowla wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:


Fencing and proper swordfighting are not the same thing. Fencing is a poor imitation of rapier techniques watered down for sport, and a rapier can barely be counted as a sword.

To hijack the thread, I'd say the modern fencing techniques are still very lethal against unarmored targets. Those fast lunges have quite a bit of force and body weight behind them - if it wasn't for the capped tip and protective equipment, a sharp sword would easily penetrate a body.

Anyways, I was thinking how would a Space Marines armour affect the fencing technique. I'm guessing the blade would feel pretty light, and the armoured gauntlet could be used for both parrying and gripping against non-powered weapons. Then again, he is wearing a ton of armour, so you'd need a very serious opponent to threaten him without a powered blade. If it was a powered weapon he's going against, then it would be a whole different ballgame - maybe closer to sabre fencing with cuts and thrusts?

As for the armour factor, Space Marines are going to be hugely more mobile than medieval knights, able to do things like spinning motions, combat rolls or quick backsteps that the more lightly armoured 17th century rapier wielders would use. Medieval knights' steel plate weighed a (non-literal) ton, a man who fell over probably couldn't get back up on his own unless he was superbly strong. They also couldn't move too fast, nor could they run (as not only would the armour prevent it, they would tire in seconds) or spin around or do generally anything but face their opponent. Space Marines don't have to worry about that. Knights being human also had to worry about things like their armour being penetrated or struck with a blunt weapon, which could and wpuld kill them outright, whereas Space Marine armour is incredibly hard as well as strong, sp useless hit with a power weapon, they can tank damage. Plus, even a sword through the chest won't kill them straight away, making them dangerous still, so they can be more reckless with their attacks. In Prospero Burns, there is a Space Wolf who wields dual axes. He sees the blow coming, and could choose to take it on the shoulder, which would probably cost him his arm, at least for the fight, but instead takes it in the ribs, which IIRC does end up killing him after, but allows him to continue using both arms as well as trapping the opponent's weapon.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I typed that all on a smartphone btw.

Ever fought in armour? A properly fitted suit of plate should not restrict your movement, I've seen a man in Maximillian plate clasp his hands behind his head, one above and one below, do squats and high kicks with no restriction. I myself regularly fight in 14thC heavy plate with little restriction other then my own fitness. I really hate that bad movie idea that you cant even stand up from the floor in plate, would you seriously take the field with people who want to kill you in something you could not stand in if you just fell over? Nope, Never!

However, when you look at tournaments from the 15thC your seeing things like Poleaxes, Long swords and the Bardich becoming popular over the arming sword, more from the additional force you can apply with two hands, and the lack of a need to carry a shield in addition to the defence offered by armour and heavy pouldrons.

I'd say that fighting Marine to Marine would be very much like armoured 15-16thC knights, the armour is a last line of defence after your skill, so the rounded nature of the armour would deflect a blow or you would use the nature of the plate to flat against a blade, grappling would be critical, distance would be critical, and blows would be aimed for critical junctions in the armour, probably the same 5 openings De Silver used, either side of the neck, under the arms or the groin. The map of arteries is the same, critical joint damage would have the same effect, and while they would be fitter, faster and more able to tolerate minor injuries, a blade in the neck is still fatal, as is a blade in the ribs IF your aiming for BOTH hearts and not just the one.

Sorry, hijacking the thread!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Google "Battle of Nations" and watch the one on one tournaments, they are full contact in overly heavy plate, do they look restricted in movement? Nope!

I was up at Warhammer World a few weeks ago and was talking to the guy in the fw shop. He said that there were about 25 orders for warlords from the open day to catch up on and then they were going to start making more for general release. He gave end of July as latest for pre-orders.

 smUrfsrUs wrote:
I was up at Warhammer World a few weeks ago and was talking to the guy in the fw shop. He said that there were about 25 orders for warlords from the open day to catch up on and then they were going to start making more for general release. He gave end of July as latest for pre-orders.

Did they have any exclusive models in the Forgeworld shop?

[1000 posts... ]

I really like this model.

Where is Dorn!?!?

Finish book 3 before jumping to book 5!

Druidic wrote:

Google "Battle of Nations" and watch the one on one tournaments, they are full contact in overly heavy plate, do they look restricted in movement? Nope!

You, my friend, have just provided me with my entertainment for the rest of the night.

 kronk wrote:
I really like this model.

Where is Dorn!?!?

Finish book 3 before jumping to book 5!

I feel for you ... but its just a fact that FW markets a new HH book with a highlight model, in most cases a Primarch. It is understandable ...

 -Shrike- wrote:

 smUrfsrUs wrote:
I was up at Warhammer World a few weeks ago and was talking to the guy in the fw shop. He said that there were about 25 orders for warlords from the open day to catch up on and then they were going to start making more for general release. He gave end of July as latest for pre-orders.

Did they have any exclusive models in the Forgeworld shop?

[1000 posts... ]

Um, not sure. Was distracted by the pretty new Invictarii set. They did have the t-shirts, mugs, bag and pins though.

 kronk wrote:
I really like this model.

Where is Dorn!?!?

Finish book 3 before jumping to book 5!

All the this.

i want to make a FW order so bad :/

Druidic wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:

 prowla wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:


Fencing and proper swordfighting are not the same thing. Fencing is a poor imitation of rapier techniques watered down for sport, and a rapier can barely be counted as a sword.

To hijack the thread, I'd say the modern fencing techniques are still very lethal against unarmored targets. Those fast lunges have quite a bit of force and body weight behind them - if it wasn't for the capped tip and protective equipment, a sharp sword would easily penetrate a body.

Anyways, I was thinking how would a Space Marines armour affect the fencing technique. I'm guessing the blade would feel pretty light, and the armoured gauntlet could be used for both parrying and gripping against non-powered weapons. Then again, he is wearing a ton of armour, so you'd need a very serious opponent to threaten him without a powered blade. If it was a powered weapon he's going against, then it would be a whole different ballgame - maybe closer to sabre fencing with cuts and thrusts?

As for the armour factor, Space Marines are going to be hugely more mobile than medieval knights, able to do things like spinning motions, combat rolls or quick backsteps that the more lightly armoured 17th century rapier wielders would use. Medieval knights' steel plate weighed a (non-literal) ton, a man who fell over probably couldn't get back up on his own unless he was superbly strong. They also couldn't move too fast, nor could they run (as not only would the armour prevent it, they would tire in seconds) or spin around or do generally anything but face their opponent. Space Marines don't have to worry about that. Knights being human also had to worry about things like their armour being penetrated or struck with a blunt weapon, which could and wpuld kill them outright, whereas Space Marine armour is incredibly hard as well as strong, sp useless hit with a power weapon, they can tank damage. Plus, even a sword through the chest won't kill them straight away, making them dangerous still, so they can be more reckless with their attacks. In Prospero Burns, there is a Space Wolf who wields dual axes. He sees the blow coming, and could choose to take it on the shoulder, which would probably cost him his arm, at least for the fight, but instead takes it in the ribs, which IIRC does end up killing him after, but allows him to continue using both arms as well as trapping the opponent's weapon.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I typed that all on a smartphone btw.

Ever fought in armour? A properly fitted suit of plate should not restrict your movement, I've seen a man in Maximillian plate clasp his hands behind his head, one above and one below, do squats and high kicks with no restriction. I myself regularly fight in 14thC heavy plate with little restriction other then my own fitness. I really hate that bad movie idea that you cant even stand up from the floor in plate, would you seriously take the field with people who want to kill you in something you could not stand in if you just fell over? Nope, Never!

However, when you look at tournaments from the 15thC your seeing things like Poleaxes, Long swords and the Bardich becoming popular over the arming sword, more from the additional force you can apply with two hands, and the lack of a need to carry a shield in addition to the defence offered by armour and heavy pouldrons.

I'd say that fighting Marine to Marine would be very much like armoured 15-16thC knights, the armour is a last line of defence after your skill, so the rounded nature of the armour would deflect a blow or you would use the nature of the plate to flat against a blade, grappling would be critical, distance would be critical, and blows would be aimed for critical junctions in the armour, probably the same 5 openings De Silver used, either side of the neck, under the arms or the groin. The map of arteries is the same, critical joint damage would have the same effect, and while they would be fitter, faster and more able to tolerate minor injuries, a blade in the neck is still fatal, as is a blade in the ribs IF your aiming for BOTH hearts and not just the one.

Sorry, hijacking the thread!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Google "Battle of Nations" and watch the one on one tournaments, they are full contact in overly heavy plate, do they look restricted in movement? Nope!

Nope, can't say I have. I've worn plate gauntlets and helm alongside a chainmail shirt, and held a longsword and shield while doing so. I'm a reasonably in shape guy but yiu couldn't fight for hours on end in that, never mind full plate, and still be able to get yourself off the ground before someone killed.

In any case, what I'm saying still remains true. Maybe a medieval knight would have more mobility than I give credit for. He still wouldn't be able to backstep and combat roll fast or fast enough to make it reliable, especially as each step and swing tires him. He's dragging an extra (google says 35)kg with him on each step, jump and swing. Space Marine armour weighs nothing for these purposes, as its servos are actually doing most of the work. The space marine isn't lifting the armour, the armour is lifting him.

And as I said before, Space Marines can take more risks, armour doesn't have to be the last line of defence. If they know the opponent can't penetrate they can take the blow instead of parrying and use it to kill the opponent, or like I cited with the Space Wolf, suffer a telling blow which they can take and continue fighting. Mindset also helps, they can take even fatal blows to win, most humans wouldn't. It alters things immensely when yiu considered what Marines can do that knights and humans can't.