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Made in us
Battlefortress Driver with Krusha Wheel




Douglasville, GA

They'll make a Kroot Codex before they make a Grot Codex. But I agree that Grot units need more goodies.
   
Made in us
Big Mek in Kustom Dragster with Soopa-Gun





Nebraska, USA

Grots in the fluff have a much MUCH bigger presence than the codex would let you believe.

Theres a reason ork players have wanted a grot boss for quite a long time. They exist, theres even grot weirdboy equivs.

An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.

14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys 
   
Made in us
Battlefortress Driver with Krusha Wheel




Douglasville, GA

I'm not saying we don't need more stuff for Grots. Just saying that I doubt it would necessitate a full Codex for them. Maybe a supplement...
   
Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






cody.d. wrote:
Orks should ally with chaos demons as they have some lore that suggests this happens. Specifically khorne and nurgle.


Hilariously it would fit the fluff. Back in second edition there was indeed Khorne worshiping Orks and even a story listing the universes least lucky genestealer cult that just so happened to infect some orks.

If there was a faction that could work as universal allies it would be Orks. I'm honestly surprised Blood Axes didn't get that as a trait or rule, being the ultimate mercenary group.


The fluff allows plenty of potential allies:
- Imperial Guard/Inquisition: There have been both guard forces going traitor and joining the orks (Von Straab on Armageddon), as well as Commanders and Inquisitors hiring ork mercenaries to attack their enemies (all over the fluff)
- Craftworld Eldar: Eldar have coaxed ork warbosses to work for them with either false promises and mind control. It has backfired on them as often as not
- Chaos Space Marines: Orks have a long-going hate-love for 'dem spiky boyz. They join sides on a whim, either is hired as mercenaries by the other or the orks are corrupted by the chaos gods to further their goals. The Black Legion, World Eaters, Death Guard and Alpha Legion have a history of working with orks at some point, as do many of the smaller splinter factions.
- Chaos Daemons: Khorne and Orks go along pretty well, but there is also Nurgle infecting them or Tzeench tricking them into fighting through illusions. I don't think there was ever a mention of Slanesh daemons cooperating with orks though.

And that's only the stuff I'm aware of. There are probably some more in the novels.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/02/27 06:15:45


7 Ork facts people always get wrong:
Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other.
A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot.
Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests.
Orks do not think that purple makes them harder to see. They do think that camouflage does however, without knowing why.
Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor.
Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers.
Orks do not have the power of believe. 
   
Made in de
Krazy Grot Kutta Driva




Nickin' 'ur stuff

blaktoof wrote:
It would be sweet if they made a Grot codex, and really fleshed out the grot range like goblins in AoS but for 40k.

Would give ally options for orks.


Yeah, because orks aren't horde enough Kidding aside, I'll switch to grots ASAP

Empty your mind, be formless, shapeless — like soup. Now you put soup in a cup, it becomes the cup; You put soup into a bottle it becomes the bottle; You put it in a teapot it becomes the teapot. Now soup can flow or it can crash. Be soup, my friend. 
   
Made in us
Battlewagon Driver with Charged Engine




Yeah, I can't imagine anyone wanting grots to stay as peripheral as they are now in the codex. I really want GW to give us some more options when it comes to grots. Obviously in a dream scenario this includes new models. I'm personally a big proponent of us getting Grot sharpshootas (basically IG ratlings) & the ability to add heavy weapons teams into our grot troop squads (rokkit launcha, supa shoota, big shoota or grotzookas).

If we don't get any new models there might be some AoS stuff they can just write rules for in 40k (like they did with the mutalith for 1k sons). Most of the gloomspite gitz look a bit too AoS IMO but I can see the sneaky snufflers being something in 40k as well, similar idea to their rule in AoS. They can buff units to the point of that unit tripping balls. I also think the normal squig herd could work.

If we don't get new rules for AoS units either then a simple WD supplement would be a good idea. Give grots lesser kulturs of which clan they belong to. I made a rough draft of how this idea would work a couple of months back. These aren't meant to be a finalised suggestion but more a rough draft of how the idea would work in practice. I dow however think that killa kanz should probably be completely exempt from the grot rule, meaning they'd get both kulturs and access to strats. We also discussed in the Fix Orks thread that giving them the "Psycho dakka blasta!" rule from the stompa would make them a lot more fun and viable.
Spoiler:

Evil Sunz: Get +1" move
Bad Moons: Reroll 1's on their dakkadakkadakka sots (this one is tough, since Mek Gunz don't need a buff)
Snakesbites: Get a 6+ FnP if the strength of the shot fired is less than double the toughness of the unit and damage 1
Deffskullz: Get a 6++ invuln if the strength of the the shot is less than double the toughness of the unit and damage 1
Blood Axes: Get the cover bonus thing
Freebootas: They already sort of get the bonus by being able to trigger it
Goffs: Maybe the entire bonus since it's only good on killa kanz?


Edit: Just to clarify, I don't think the squig herd should be a new unit necessarily but rather an upgrade option for the grot units. Say that every 1 in 10 grots can be a squig herder. Each squig herder can bring up to 3 squigs and these squigs don't count towards the unit total. Meaning you can bring 3 squig herders in a 30 grot blob and up to 9 squigs. The squigs are similar to the Warboss' attack squig in statline but they hit on 4's. So their statline would be something like this.
M6" WS4+ BS- S4 T3 W1 A2 Ld4+ Sv6+
Squig teeth: Melee S User AP-1 D1

Just make the squig herders the same cost as normal ggrots (or maybe 4 points) and the squigs cheap enough to be brought as well. They're basically just meant to bring a little bit of bite in CC so that non dedicated melee units might think twice about charging the grots. The squigs won't benefit from surprisingly dangerous in large numbers. I doubt this will happen but the gloomspite gitz got some great new kits and this is an easy way of weaving them into 40k.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/02/27 12:46:24


 
   
Made in us
Mekboy on Kustom Deth Kopta






While I think that a grot codex / army would be cool I do not think the game needs more factions. don't get me wrogn if GW is looking around to actually make another army then please make it, but at this point there are already so many factions.

If they do make a grot codex it would be col to have grotsa with actual guns, like ratling snipers but gretchen or little grot tanks throwing out BS4 rokkits. maybe add some like trap rules as i could see the little buggers setting traps in terrain to slow down invaders rather than direct confrontations.

If we look at the game as a whole and rather than openign up Allies GW went the new codexii route

Codex gretchin: mostly ranged army functionally similar to Tau/guard

Codex Tau allies: expantd croot, add some imperial guard units/soldiers and some kind of close combat race that fights with them as a melee threat

Codex Necron new empire: since new necrons are actually reaching out and becoming a part of the galaxy it might be cool for them to work with a few new alien races that humanity has driven to the fringes of the galaxy. lots of room for creativity here and cool new out there modeling options.

but obviously if going that way GW should go gretchen first.

10000 points 7000
6000
5000
5000
2000
 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





I'd just be happy with some grot units that are actually worth taking. Shoot, I'd be happy with the grot units we already have (including grot tanks throwing rokkits at BS 4+) if they could get a little kultur or be strategemized. Don't get me wrong, some gretchin snipers would be simply awesome, but GW seems to hate the poor grots as anything but meatshields :(.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/02/27 15:40:57


 
   
Made in se
Rogue Grot Kannon Gunna






The problems i ser are:

Warbikes: a bit overpriced
Burnaz: useless in both their role for their price, as flamer unit and as close combat unit
New buggies: 25% overpriced
Mek gunz: they should have the clan abilities
Lootasbomb: too low armour
Nobz:: too low armour
Painboy: way too expensive
Killa kanZ: too pricey, they need kultur and need something to boost that LD
Warboss: they need Invu
Runtherd: like 300% overpriced
Stormboyz: need 5+ save
Nob with banner: 15-20pts too expensive
Flash Gits: need at least 30" range
Flyers: need 3+

Forgot about the Stompas price:






Sorry if it is not in order but I'm writing this minirant from work.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/02/27 19:52:39


 
   
Made in us
Big Mek in Kustom Dragster with Soopa-Gun





Nebraska, USA

i'd probably agree with that entire list except regular nobz having better armor.
4+ is fine for them imo. Orks dont have super good armor unless theyre rocking Mega Armor which also slows them down. Only a SINGLE non-walker entry in the codex has a 3+ save or ever had one and thats Badrukk who has special looted stuff.
Granting Nobz a built-in Cybork for a painboy-free FNP (no cost, seriously 5pts for that crap? zog off) would be better imo (and give them a special case Cybork that goes to a 5+ if snake bites?)
Alternatively, just drop their points more. Problem with that is theyre already 2x a boy model and shortening that gap could prove problematic.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/02/27 20:04:49


An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.

14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys 
   
Made in us
Battlefortress Driver with Krusha Wheel




Douglasville, GA

Yeah. I think what we really need is some point drops. Orkz aren't meant to be durable. We're cheap and expendable. We win by throwing bodies at a problem until it goes away. What we got now are troops designed to be expendable, but at prices that make losing them hurt too much.
   
Made in se
Rogue Grot Kannon Gunna






 Vineheart01 wrote:
i'd probably agree with that entire list except regular nobz having better armor.
4+ is fine for them imo. Orks dont have super good armor unless theyre rocking Mega Armor which also slows them down. Only a SINGLE non-walker entry in the codex has a 3+ save or ever had one and thats Badrukk who has special looted stuff.
Granting Nobz a built-in Cybork for a painboy-free FNP (no cost, seriously 5pts for that crap? zog off) would be better imo (and give them a special case Cybork that goes to a 5+ if snake bites?)
Alternatively, just drop their points more. Problem with that is theyre already 2x a boy model and shortening that gap could prove problematic.



Really good idea. I second that
   
Made in us
Smokin' Skorcha Driver






If Stompa's were brought down to like 650 I think it'd be decent(ish).

Friendship is like peeing on yourself: everyone can see it, but only you get the warm feeling that it brings. 
   
Made in us
Big Mek in Kustom Dragster with Soopa-Gun





Nebraska, USA

even at that price im sketchy on it.
That 4th damage track just ruins it imo. It might as well not even have the last 10 or whatever the threshold was wounds.
Also it needs a freakin' invul. The only reason those super big things survive is they have invul saves, GargSquig is a prime example of this. It can die super fast if hit with multiple D6 damage attacks or gets into melee with something that it cant kill immediately/charged it and has a proper killy melee attack.

KFF is nice but it not only demands an 80-310pt tax (depending on choice of it) but it doesnt work in melee and theres a LOT of things you really, really dont want our stompa/gargsquig to face in melee.

An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.

14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys 
   
Made in ca
Gargantuan Gargant






 Vineheart01 wrote:
even at that price im sketchy on it.
That 4th damage track just ruins it imo. It might as well not even have the last 10 or whatever the threshold was wounds.
Also it needs a freakin' invul. The only reason those super big things survive is they have invul saves, GargSquig is a prime example of this. It can die super fast if hit with multiple D6 damage attacks or gets into melee with something that it cant kill immediately/charged it and has a proper killy melee attack.

KFF is nice but it not only demands an 80-310pt tax (depending on choice of it) but it doesnt work in melee and theres a LOT of things you really, really dont want our stompa/gargsquig to face in melee.


Yeah, in a world where knights run around rampant and smash captains fly about, it's mind-boggling that the Stompa doesn't get some sort of perma-invuln. considering its a walking skrap-heap of a monster. Fix the bizarre wounds degradation table to be less punishing, give it a base 5++ invuln. (change the recent relic from Vigilus to give a 4++ instead, even though its not like anyone would take that detachment anyways...).

Also, regarding Nobz in the previous posts, I think just giving them unit wide access to Cybork bodies (i.e., not 1 in 5) and making cybork bodies a 5++ save would be a one and done deal. Make it accessible for our characters as well and BAM, it solves one of our basic issues regarding survivability for HQ's.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Savannah

 Grimskul wrote:
 Vineheart01 wrote:
even at that price im sketchy on it.
That 4th damage track just ruins it imo. It might as well not even have the last 10 or whatever the threshold was wounds.
Also it needs a freakin' invul. The only reason those super big things survive is they have invul saves, GargSquig is a prime example of this. It can die super fast if hit with multiple D6 damage attacks or gets into melee with something that it cant kill immediately/charged it and has a proper killy melee attack.

KFF is nice but it not only demands an 80-310pt tax (depending on choice of it) but it doesnt work in melee and theres a LOT of things you really, really dont want our stompa/gargsquig to face in melee.


Yeah, in a world where knights run around rampant and smash captains fly about, it's mind-boggling that the Stompa doesn't get some sort of perma-invuln. considering its a walking skrap-heap of a monster. Fix the bizarre wounds degradation table to be less punishing, give it a base 5++ invuln. (change the recent relic from Vigilus to give a 4++ instead, even though its not like anyone would take that detachment anyways...).

Also, regarding Nobz in the previous posts, I think just giving them unit wide access to Cybork bodies (i.e., not 1 in 5) and making cybork bodies a 5++ save would be a one and done deal. Make it accessible for our characters as well and BAM, it solves one of our basic issues regarding survivability for HQ's.


Beyond the obvious insanity of the point cost (seriously, I have no idea where they could possibly have reached that number from), I agree that the stompa does need something to keep it alive, but I don't think an invul is the way to go. That sort of tech is limited to a mek's special projects, not cranked out on an assembly line like they are for the imperium. An option for a kff would be fine (meks do love to tinker), but as there's no part in the kit that seems unlikely. I'd rather it get a better version of ramshackle, instead, and improve its survivability by dropping shots to one damage on a 4+. Against a d6 weapon that works out to about a 5++ (2.25 average damage vs. 2.33 from the invul), with it being worse against low damage hits and better against higher. That "feels" more like the Orkish randomness they want (including using more dice, but I don't mind on a super-heavy) and less like a copy-paste from imperial stuff while also leaving open the option for a kff nearby to actually help out more.

That extra degradation step needs to go, though.
   
Made in us
Mekboy on Kustom Deth Kopta






 flaming tadpole wrote:
If Stompa's were brought down to like 650 I think it'd be decent(ish).


having run the codex stompa several times. it loses to the castellan before ever reaching it and the castellan has better strategies. it loses to a pair of most types of knights which arte also less points. one of the biggest issues as mentioned byu others is a lack of invunerable save.

essentuall a castellan even with the 5++ has the equivilant of 1/3 more wounds due to ignoring high ap weapons. so that 28 wounds is the equivilant of 37 stompa wounds. with better guns... for 60% of the price.

10000 points 7000
6000
5000
5000
2000
 
   
Made in au
Flashy Flashgitz






juanonymous wrote:
Let’s not forget that, leading up to the LVO, orks were perhaps The biggest boogeyman for anyone looking to build a list themed against the meta. Saying orks are bid simply because of the LVO results is a bit too early of an assessment in my opinion. What’s more, isn’t assessing their place in the meta kind of irrelevant to a tactics thread (unless it’s another codex’s thread trying to convince that orks are no big deal), at least without offering solutions to what weaknesses are being cited? Unless the goal is to just shut down the thread?
Sorry, no intention to flame or point fingers at anybody, just an amateur player looking to keep the tactics conversation going
You're in the wrong neighborhood, buddy. It's much easier to blame the meta than player skill, keeps the focus on "what we need to be better" rather than "how do we play better with our tools". Literally two pages of wish-listing after you posted this lol.
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




UK

Had some success with :
Freebooterz
2x Warboss
20x Flashgitz
2x Ammo runt
3x 10 Grotz
2x Trukk

Mobile fire base to concentrate firepower with boss for Ld + cc and runts to die if trukk goes, grotz to deny deep strikes/tank wounds.

Struggles vs Necrons, spanks DE flyer/raider list, cuts Custodes infantry/dread list down to their invulnerable hq.
   
Made in gb
Mekboy on Kustom Deth Kopta






 hollow one wrote:
juanonymous wrote:
Let’s not forget that, leading up to the LVO, orks were perhaps The biggest boogeyman for anyone looking to build a list themed against the meta. Saying orks are bid simply because of the LVO results is a bit too early of an assessment in my opinion. What’s more, isn’t assessing their place in the meta kind of irrelevant to a tactics thread (unless it’s another codex’s thread trying to convince that orks are no big deal), at least without offering solutions to what weaknesses are being cited? Unless the goal is to just shut down the thread?
Sorry, no intention to flame or point fingers at anybody, just an amateur player looking to keep the tactics conversation going
You're in the wrong neighborhood, buddy. It's much easier to blame the meta than player skill, keeps the focus on "what we need to be better" rather than "how do we play better with our tools". Literally two pages of wish-listing after you posted this lol.
I look forward to you both proving us wrong and winning your next few majors. If you think Orks are strong competitively in the current meta - take them and show us how its done.
   
Made in au
Flashy Flashgitz






 An Actual Englishman wrote:
 hollow one wrote:
juanonymous wrote:
Let’s not forget that, leading up to the LVO, orks were perhaps The biggest boogeyman for anyone looking to build a list themed against the meta. Saying orks are bid simply because of the LVO results is a bit too early of an assessment in my opinion. What’s more, isn’t assessing their place in the meta kind of irrelevant to a tactics thread (unless it’s another codex’s thread trying to convince that orks are no big deal), at least without offering solutions to what weaknesses are being cited? Unless the goal is to just shut down the thread?
Sorry, no intention to flame or point fingers at anybody, just an amateur player looking to keep the tactics conversation going
You're in the wrong neighborhood, buddy. It's much easier to blame the meta than player skill, keeps the focus on "what we need to be better" rather than "how do we play better with our tools". Literally two pages of wish-listing after you posted this lol.
I look forward to you both proving us wrong and winning your next few majors. If you think Orks are strong competitively in the current meta - take them and show us how its done.
Bro I play a loota star, I lose with it a lot, but I am getting better. I just don't come here to learn how. And I certainly wouldn't share my success with an audience of nay-sayers.
   
Made in us
Battlewagon Driver with Charged Engine




I feel like we can reel back a bit on the animosity regarding the competitiveness of Orks. That'll become more apparent in a few months and is easier to revisit then, the pool of tournaments since post CA are still a bit too small IMO.

In an attempt to return to the tactics part of the thread I had a game yesterday and another one a few days before that. I still feel like a mechanised build won't work at the highest tier but they absolutely work at semi competitive tournaments IMO. You gotta keep trying to switch things out and see what works but the basic issue is that too many things lack either the punch or durability to truly work at high level games. But a couple of unis still do solid work basically everytime I bring them out..

I'm still awestruck at just how good the bonebreaka is at mulching a screening unit all by itself. It's a liability if you face IK or lists geared towards killing IK but I'm still having a hard time getting my mechanised lists work without them + the nob squad hiding inside it.

Also, with even more playtesting I can't see myself leaving the home without the Souped-up shokka big mek. He doesn't always get the job done but I don't think I've ever had a game where he didn't get his points back and the psychological terror he brings to anything that lacks an invul is just great.

The weirdboy is still doing great work, Fists of Gork is such an amazing power. It actually makes the Deffkilla scary in CC combined with Brutal but kunning (& maybe the supa cybork body). Without any of those things he's pretty tame. I mean, he still is compared to some of the index options.. But the Killa jet is actually ending up a lot more useful than I though it'd be. I mostly use the skorcha profile (why is it called burna?) to roast something on the way but those meltas have helped so many times to remove a damaged vehicle roadblock my opponent sets up.

I'm so close to loving the shokkjump dragsta, it's one of the most fun units to play and often manages to get me a few secure objective/equivalent points that I shouldn't have been able to get. But it's just sooo expensive for it's durability, especially because once the opponent actually fires at it it often only has 6 wounds left due to it hurting itself. And 24" guns leaves it too exposed.

Mechanised orks in general certainly need some help, everytime I play against a new opponent and get first turn they seems so disheartened when I kill like 33% of their army (mostly chaff and like one armoured target). Then when they get to shoot back they realise that everything folds like damp paper and the games end up close a lot of the time. If I don't go first (or face plasma spam) then you end up tabled T3 in a lot of cases. I have found that flyers help out quite a bit for me though, since you get such an insane threat in your opponents face T1 that target priority can sometimes become a bit wonky.

Even though it'd screw snakebites over I wonder if not every ork vehicle should get the ramshackle rule. It's a fun rule and it'd help a little bit at least.
   
Made in fi
Locked in the Tower of Amareo





 Emicrania wrote:

Mek gunz: they should have the clan abilities


So basically mek guns are death skull only.

Also funny you claim they need huge boost(reroll to hit, to wound and to damage) when they are already one of the best units in the codex.

Lootasbomb: too low armour


Again buff to one of the best units in the army?


Runtherd: like 300% overpriced


you claim they need be 8-9 pts? Sheesh.

Some realism would be nice to have.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Vineheart01 wrote:
even at that price im sketchy on it.
That 4th damage track just ruins it imo. It might as well not even have the last 10 or whatever the threshold was wounds.
Also it needs a freakin' invul. The only reason those super big things survive is they have invul saves, GargSquig is a prime example of this. It can die super fast if hit with multiple D6 damage attacks or gets into melee with something that it cant kill immediately/charged it and has a proper killy melee attack.

KFF is nice but it not only demands an 80-310pt tax (depending on choice of it) but it doesnt work in melee and theres a LOT of things you really, really dont want our stompa/gargsquig to face in melee.


It's about as tough as knight except for degration table. Tougher vs autocannons and the kind or vs h2h. Price is the killer.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 G00fySmiley wrote:
 flaming tadpole wrote:
If Stompa's were brought down to like 650 I think it'd be decent(ish).


having run the codex stompa several times. it loses to the castellan before ever reaching it and the castellan has better strategies. it loses to a pair of most types of knights which arte also less points. one of the biggest issues as mentioned byu others is a lack of invunerable save.

essentuall a castellan even with the 5++ has the equivilant of 1/3 more wounds due to ignoring high ap weapons. so that 28 wounds is the equivilant of 37 stompa wounds. with better guns... for 60% of the price.


Not good idea though to start comparing to one of the best things out there. If you are looking at castellans pretty much everything loses. Particulary in terms of super heavies. 2 shadowsword vs castellan? No biggie.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 hollow one wrote:
 An Actual Englishman wrote:
 hollow one wrote:
juanonymous wrote:
Let’s not forget that, leading up to the LVO, orks were perhaps The biggest boogeyman for anyone looking to build a list themed against the meta. Saying orks are bid simply because of the LVO results is a bit too early of an assessment in my opinion. What’s more, isn’t assessing their place in the meta kind of irrelevant to a tactics thread (unless it’s another codex’s thread trying to convince that orks are no big deal), at least without offering solutions to what weaknesses are being cited? Unless the goal is to just shut down the thread?
Sorry, no intention to flame or point fingers at anybody, just an amateur player looking to keep the tactics conversation going
You're in the wrong neighborhood, buddy. It's much easier to blame the meta than player skill, keeps the focus on "what we need to be better" rather than "how do we play better with our tools". Literally two pages of wish-listing after you posted this lol.
I look forward to you both proving us wrong and winning your next few majors. If you think Orks are strong competitively in the current meta - take them and show us how its done.
Bro I play a loota star, I lose with it a lot, but I am getting better. I just don't come here to learn how. And I certainly wouldn't share my success with an audience of nay-sayers.


Removed

This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2019/02/28 20:53:02


2024 painted/bought: 109/109 
   
Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






PiñaColada wrote:
I feel like we can reel back a bit on the animosity regarding the competitiveness of Orks. That'll become more apparent in a few months and is easier to revisit then, the pool of tournaments since post CA are still a bit too small IMO.

In an attempt to return to the tactics part of the thread I had a game yesterday and another one a few days before that. I still feel like a mechanised build won't work at the highest tier but they absolutely work at semi competitive tournaments IMO. You gotta keep trying to switch things out and see what works but the basic issue is that too many things lack either the punch or durability to truly work at high level games. But a couple of unis still do solid work basically everytime I bring them out..

I'm still awestruck at just how good the bonebreaka is at mulching a screening unit all by itself. It's a liability if you face IK or lists geared towards killing IK but I'm still having a hard time getting my mechanised lists work without them + the nob squad hiding inside it.

Also, with even more playtesting I can't see myself leaving the home without the Souped-up shokka big mek. He doesn't always get the job done but I don't think I've ever had a game where he didn't get his points back and the psychological terror he brings to anything that lacks an invul is just great.

The weirdboy is still doing great work, Fists of Gork is such an amazing power. It actually makes the Deffkilla scary in CC combined with Brutal but kunning (& maybe the supa cybork body). Without any of those things he's pretty tame. I mean, he still is compared to some of the index options.. But the Killa jet is actually ending up a lot more useful than I though it'd be. I mostly use the skorcha profile (why is it called burna?) to roast something on the way but those meltas have helped so many times to remove a damaged vehicle roadblock my opponent sets up.

I'm so close to loving the shokkjump dragsta, it's one of the most fun units to play and often manages to get me a few secure objective/equivalent points that I shouldn't have been able to get. But it's just sooo expensive for it's durability, especially because once the opponent actually fires at it it often only has 6 wounds left due to it hurting itself. And 24" guns leaves it too exposed.

Mechanised orks in general certainly need some help, everytime I play against a new opponent and get first turn they seems so disheartened when I kill like 33% of their army (mostly chaff and like one armoured target). Then when they get to shoot back they realise that everything folds like damp paper and the games end up close a lot of the time. If I don't go first (or face plasma spam) then you end up tabled T3 in a lot of cases. I have found that flyers help out quite a bit for me though, since you get such an insane threat in your opponents face T1 that target priority can sometimes become a bit wonky.

Even though it'd screw snakebites over I wonder if not every ork vehicle should get the ramshackle rule. It's a fun rule and it'd help a little bit at least.


Can you provide some sample lists?

I'm still unsure what to get for my next purchase. Shokkjump seems a given, but I'm unsure whether I should get just the jumper or the whole speedfreeks box since the KBB and the warbikers aren't exactly stellar. While it's still a good deal for those bikes, I could have a scrapjet and a wartrike instead.
I have a boomdakka snazzwagon that I proxy as a KBB right now, so does running two KBB make sense?
Do you have a KFF in your lists, if so, which one?
What is your opinion on the snazztrike relic?

7 Ork facts people always get wrong:
Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other.
A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot.
Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests.
Orks do not think that purple makes them harder to see. They do think that camouflage does however, without knowing why.
Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor.
Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers.
Orks do not have the power of believe. 
   
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tneva82 wrote:
 Emicrania wrote:

Mek gunz: they should have the clan abilities


So basically mek guns are death skull only.

Also funny you claim they need huge boost(reroll to hit, to wound and to damage) when they are already one of the best units in the codex.

Lootasbomb: too low armour


Again buff to one of the best units in the army?


Runtherd: like 300% overpriced


you claim they need be 8-9 pts? Sheesh.

Some realism would be nice to have.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Vineheart01 wrote:
even at that price im sketchy on it.
That 4th damage track just ruins it imo. It might as well not even have the last 10 or whatever the threshold was wounds.
Also it needs a freakin' invul. The only reason those super big things survive is they have invul saves, GargSquig is a prime example of this. It can die super fast if hit with multiple D6 damage attacks or gets into melee with something that it cant kill immediately/charged it and has a proper killy melee attack.

KFF is nice but it not only demands an 80-310pt tax (depending on choice of it) but it doesnt work in melee and theres a LOT of things you really, really dont want our stompa/gargsquig to face in melee.


It's about as tough as knight except for degration table. Tougher vs autocannons and the kind or vs h2h. Price is the killer.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 G00fySmiley wrote:
 flaming tadpole wrote:
If Stompa's were brought down to like 650 I think it'd be decent(ish).


having run the codex stompa several times. it loses to the castellan before ever reaching it and the castellan has better strategies. it loses to a pair of most types of knights which arte also less points. one of the biggest issues as mentioned byu others is a lack of invunerable save.

essentuall a castellan even with the 5++ has the equivilant of 1/3 more wounds due to ignoring high ap weapons. so that 28 wounds is the equivilant of 37 stompa wounds. with better guns... for 60% of the price.


Not good idea though to start comparing to one of the best things out there. If you are looking at castellans pretty much everything loses. Particulary in terms of super heavies. 2 shadowsword vs castellan? No biggie.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 hollow one wrote:
 An Actual Englishman wrote:
 hollow one wrote:
juanonymous wrote:
Let’s not forget that, leading up to the LVO, orks were perhaps The biggest boogeyman for anyone looking to build a list themed against the meta. Saying orks are bid simply because of the LVO results is a bit too early of an assessment in my opinion. What’s more, isn’t assessing their place in the meta kind of irrelevant to a tactics thread (unless it’s another codex’s thread trying to convince that orks are no big deal), at least without offering solutions to what weaknesses are being cited? Unless the goal is to just shut down the thread?
Sorry, no intention to flame or point fingers at anybody, just an amateur player looking to keep the tactics conversation going
You're in the wrong neighborhood, buddy. It's much easier to blame the meta than player skill, keeps the focus on "what we need to be better" rather than "how do we play better with our tools". Literally two pages of wish-listing after you posted this lol.
I look forward to you both proving us wrong and winning your next few majors. If you think Orks are strong competitively in the current meta - take them and show us how its done.
Bro I play a loota star, I lose with it a lot, but I am getting better. I just don't come here to learn how. And I certainly wouldn't share my success with an audience of nay-sayers.


Removed


on the response to stompa, notice i also compared it to 2 imperial knights which i have run against several times ~800 points of imperial knights (2 errent or an erant and a paladin) they keep range as the cripple the stompa which degrades so fast to slow movement it just never gets there into close combat and its shooting ijust rolling a bunch of dice and occationally getting lucky enough to hit. thanks to the knight's 5++ we hit them 1/3 shots which they in turn ignore 1/3 of or with CP ignore 1/2 of so you have to split your fire declaring on shooting so they get to pick the one to rotate shields for.

on the mek guns I do not think they need clan culture but they do need it to be worht the points, honestly i would rather see them just dropped a few points to make them competative but i won't hold my breath.

on lootas they are great when you pump them full of CP. its funny that most models GW tseems to have ignored how well they do with CP but then they factored it in on lootas (to be clear I don't want them to change, just for other things mostly in imperial soup and ynarri armies to get the same treatment)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/02/28 20:53:31


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Nebraska, USA

The two imperial knight comparison is the best one to say the stompa is terrible.
Even just a Paladin is half the cost of a Stompa and will either beat said Stompa or at least leave it in some serious, serious hurt. Two paladins wouldnt even get phased by a stompa and are roughly the same price. And a Paladin isnt even a stronger version of the knights.
Stompa would mulch a paladin IF it got to melee without being in its 3rd or 4th degrading track, but thats not easy to do. GW seems to overvalue raw HP right now, which isnt high enough to rely on with how easy D6 damaging weapons are to get. I mean, why else would the Squigbuggy be the most expensive new ride? Most hp....

Admitedly i always forget knights dont get invuls in melee either, so maybe just giving the Stompa itself the KFF would be enough. I always found it odd that KFF isnt an option on just about all of our non-trukk or kan stuff, if its small enough for a Mek to lug around surely he'd get the idea of "If i'z stik dis to dis wagon i dun need ta carry it!"
Also find it odd that the variant on the Mork or the Wazbom isnt bigger since it has access to a better power source or is physically bigger, making it reach further.

And i cant believe i just noticed we dont have the 4++ KFF relic anymore. How the frick did i miss we didnt have that?

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2019/02/28 14:36:22


An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.

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 Vineheart01 wrote:
The two imperial knight comparison is the best one to say the stompa is terrible.
Even just a Paladin is half the cost of a Stompa and will either beat said Stompa or at least leave it in some serious, serious hurt. Two paladins wouldnt even get phased by a stompa and are roughly the same price. And a Paladin isnt even a stronger version of the knights.

Admitedly i always forget knights dont get invuls in melee either, so maybe just giving the Stompa itself the KFF would be enough. I always found it odd that KFF isnt an option on just about all of our non-trukk or kan stuff, if its small enough for a Mek to lug around surely he'd get the idea of "If i'z stik dis to dis wagon i dun need ta carry it!"
Also find it odd that the variant on the Mork or the Wazbom isnt bigger since it has access to a better power source or is physically bigger, making it reach further.

And i cant believe i just noticed we dont have the 4++ KFF relic anymore. How the frick did i miss we didnt have that?


yea, like the morkanaught the stompa should just have a kff, a kff inside does a lot to help it, but then you are sitting at an extra 100 points which compounds hte overpriced problem as now you have 100 points tied up inside a stompa that is basically useless and when it dies you have a weak unit in the middle of combat. a mega armored mek with kff also does help with that btu again... a lot of points you are hoping to never get out of the vehicle.

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ive actually been using kff on bike for that reason.
It hides behind said big walker (or squiggoth in my case) so snipers cant see it and its bubble hits both the big bad thing and the nearby wagons/dreads/whatever i had near it.

Kff on bike is of course index only but i was already using footmek anyway. Since i have the proper friggen GW model for it im not going to shelve it permanently.

An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.

14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys 
   
Made in us
Battlewagon Driver with Charged Engine




Alright, jeez calm down people. Let's try and be cordial.
 Jidmah wrote:

Can you provide some sample lists?

I'm still unsure what to get for my next purchase. Shokkjump seems a given, but I'm unsure whether I should get just the jumper or the whole speedfreeks box since the KBB and the warbikers aren't exactly stellar. While it's still a good deal for those bikes, I could have a scrapjet and a wartrike instead.
I have a boomdakka snazzwagon that I proxy as a KBB right now, so does running two KBB make sense?
Do you have a KFF in your lists, if so, which one?
What is your opinion on the snazztrike relic?

Well, I'm taking part of a slow grow tournament right now and I'm using that to try and switch up my list a bit. It's a good excuse to rewrite it from the ground up. Right now it's at the 1250 point level so it's rather limited in scope. At this point level I don't bring a KFF since I'm not sure it's worth it. As a general rule I don't play witgh index units so the only KFF I use is the Wazbom when I actually include one, it works pretty well since I play such a fast force.

Off the top of my head my 1250 list was this.
Spoiler:

Battalion
Deffkilla -Warlord- Brutal but Kunnin, Supa Cybork
Weirdboy - Warpath Fists of Gork + Warpath
2x10 grots
1x11 grots
10 nobz +1 runt - 5BC+C, 2PS+C, 3 double choppa
Bonebreaka + 3BS
Outrider
SAG big mek, Da souped up shokka
KBB
MTSJ
SJD
8x warbikes + nob with BC

You can have pretty decent success with a list like this but the lack of CPs and objective scoring units can be rough. Also if you don't get T1 those bikes are getting blasted. I haven't actually lost with this list but you have to get pretty tricky with movement for it to work. Also LoS blocking ground floor on buildings helps hiding the buggies pretty well since they're fairly low in profile. Using "driveby krumpin" on the SJD is pretty damn effective to get him out of there but again, CP starved. Always chuck "Loot it´" on the nobz if possible.

You can easily squash 30-40 guardsmen T1 and hopefully consolidate into their next lines. Probably won't be tanks or anything but at least you're forcing their hands regarding orders.

The best is easily the MTSJ IMO, it's varied in threats and has an extra wound. Decent against chaff, pretty good against vehicles and can help mop up in CC. Don't get me wrong, all buggies are 20 points too much (other than the squigbuggy which is more like 50 points overcosted). I've had good success with both the KBB and SJD as well, their potential is there but if people are geared up for killing IK then you at least need a KFF protecting them, thus brining up the price even higher. The good thing about the wazbom is that it's quick enough to keep up, but the area is too small. This can be somewhat negated if you veer off with the bikers and use "billowing smokeclouds" instead.

Regarding which buggies to get, I'd start with the MTSJ. After that both the deffkilla and SJD are fairly decent (and fun to play with). I only actually own one of each buggies so I don't know about the viability of doubling up on them yet, but I guess it's going to feel like a waste until they get point drops.

I've not used the snazztrike relic. I usually use the supa cybork body, which seems roughly as good and I don't need the specialist detachment for it. The 2d6" consolidation from that detachment enabled me to encircle a Castellan once and I bracketed him with the Deffkilla (and some shooting beforehand) so he couldn't kill enough bikes to get out. But that's a unicorn situation.

I'm not sure how I'll expand up my list through the higher point levels, I don't want to keep doing the same list. So I might swap the bikes for an airwing detachment at 1500. Will have to test that out.
   
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That looks like a fun and experimental list. Good job, Keep us posted !
   
 
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