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2017/12/12 23:23:24
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
I'm partecipating in a a league at my FLGS with the following rules for the initial list:
- No unique chars
- 1 patrol detachment only
- No models above 220 points
- 1000 points
- No relics
- The general must be narratively in line with a patrol (so no tyrants)
Since there will be many new players and we want to make it really easygoing, i'm thinking that the time has come for me to try Hydra!
What do you think? It should be mildly effective at covering the "Tyranid swarm" experience during the league while not being excessively challenging on the table.
2017/12/13 15:08:55
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
Just got 2 Carnifex Brood pack and want to make a couple dakkafexes to round out my herd of 7 plus OOE. I don’t understand why you can’t run spores on thornbacks. I bet if you had say 7 thornbacks and a Malanthrope or Venomthropes they would out perform a Dakkafex but without the -1 my opponent is going to shoot the thornbacks first and then focus down the -1 spore Carnifex. What do you guys think?
2017/12/13 15:49:37
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
swarmlord gives you a guaranteed first turn charge with kraken genestealers so there that. He's also a got 2 powers a turn, 2 denies a turn, and can kill most characters in one round of combat.
You can either deep strike him in a tyranocyte or walk him up the board. 300 points is alot but if you tie up or kill more than that with your first turn charge its worth it.
Pair him up with a devilbomb to clear chaff out of the way and you'll be a happy player.
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2017/12/13 17:08:53
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
The Swarmlord is great if you save 4++ fairly well, and awful if you don't.
Galas wrote: I remember when Marmatag was a nooby, all shiney and full of joy. How playing the unbalanced mess of Warhammer40k in a ultra-competitive meta has changed you
Bharring wrote: He'll actually *change his mind* in the presence of sufficient/sufficiently defended information. Heretic.
2017/12/13 20:37:11
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
Resipsa131 wrote: Just got 2 Carnifex Brood pack and want to make a couple dakkafexes to round out my herd of 7 plus OOE. I don’t understand why you can’t run spores on thornbacks. I bet if you had say 7 thornbacks and a Malanthrope or Venomthropes they would out perform a Dakkafex but without the -1 my opponent is going to shoot the thornbacks first and then focus down the -1 spore Carnifex. What do you guys think?
Quick question - with what kind of bases did those 2 carnifexes come with? Classical 60 mm, or the oval ones like in that deathstorm starter box? As of right now it is unclear what kind of bases you should put your carnies on, because even in the codex they have different bases.
2017/12/13 20:40:32
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
Resipsa131 wrote: Just got 2 Carnifex Brood pack and want to make a couple dakkafexes to round out my herd of 7 plus OOE. I don’t understand why you can’t run spores on thornbacks. I bet if you had say 7 thornbacks and a Malanthrope or Venomthropes they would out perform a Dakkafex but without the -1 my opponent is going to shoot the thornbacks first and then focus down the -1 spore Carnifex. What do you guys think?
Quick question - with what kind of bases did those 2 carnifexes come with? Classical 60 mm, or the oval ones like in that deathstorm starter box? As of right now it is unclear what kind of bases you should put your carnies on, because even in the codex they have different bases.
The regular carnifex kits come on 60mm rounds. It's only the deathstorm box that had the oval. (Deathstorm was also the most recent release)
These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
2017/12/13 22:31:33
Subject: Re:Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
babelfish wrote: I'm getting everything prepared to run Swarmlord + 'stealers + devilgants in a Jormundr drop. I'm looking at running 2 'stealer squads and a big (25+) Termagant squad. I'm wondering if it is feasible to bring one of the 'stealer squads and the 'gants in with the same unit of Raveners. Do they fit? should I run 4 models in that Ravener squad?
I'm pretty sure I test fit 40 stealers and 30 gants around 3x40mm bases, 2" apart, but why not just place them down and check it yourself?
Oh, I know that I can make them fit on my kitchen table, but what fits/works in theory doesn't always work in practice, so I wanted to see if anyone had experience on the tabletop.
2017/12/13 23:43:26
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
Resipsa131 wrote: Just got 2 Carnifex Brood pack and want to make a couple dakkafexes to round out my herd of 7 plus OOE. I don’t understand why you can’t run spores on thornbacks. I bet if you had say 7 thornbacks and a Malanthrope or Venomthropes they would out perform a Dakkafex but without the -1 my opponent is going to shoot the thornbacks first and then focus down the -1 spore Carnifex. What do you guys think?
Quick question - with what kind of bases did those 2 carnifexes come with? Classical 60 mm, or the oval ones like in that deathstorm starter box? As of right now it is unclear what kind of bases you should put your carnies on, because even in the codex they have different bases.
small 60mm bases
2017/12/14 07:51:06
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
3 Flyrants in a Behemoth Supreme HQ (Devourers, RC)
Everything else Jormie:
Zoanthrope
Tyranid Prime
OOE
5 Fexes with mixed weapons
1 Ripper Swarm
2 units of Warriors (x4/x5) with Swords and Deathspitters, dropping in with
2x3 Raveners with Deathspitters.
Go second whenever I can, leaving only T7/2+/-1 to hit fexes to shoot.
Your units arrive in manageable chunks and those fexes are going to take a beating if the enemy get's first turn. You are better off removing the warriors and raveners and totally go all in with the monsters so that every low strength weapon is forced to shoot at a monster. I also would use the 'kraken' fleet for your hive tyrants. Getting out of close combat and assault another units makes them very flexible.
Spoletta wrote:I'm partecipating in a a league at my FLGS with the following rules for the initial list:
- No unique chars
- 1 patrol detachment only
- No models above 220 points
- 1000 points
- No relics
- The general must be narratively in line with a patrol (so no tyrants)
Since there will be many new players and we want to make it really easygoing, i'm thinking that the time has come for me to try Hydra!
What do you think? It should be mildly effective at covering the "Tyranid swarm" experience during the league while not being excessively challenging on the table.
It's a nice casual armylist and tyranids can do really well at low point games. But any decent shooty list will give you problems because the tyranid warriors are really bullet magnets and your only hard hitting unit. First turn, the enemy can take down 5 warriors easily and at the second turn you could be into trouble. You can double the warriors movement with the overdrive stratagem but that means the venomthropes cannot keep up.
Eldarsif wrote:What are people's current opinion on Swarmlords? Have a Hive Tyrant box and tempted to make one.
It's to expensive to be walking around on the field so either drop him in with a tyrannocyte and build you armylist around him (hive commander), or don't bother. Best to use devourer gaunts to remove any bubble wrap and move in the genestealers with the hive commander ability.
2017/12/14 09:47:41
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
3 Flyrants in a Behemoth Supreme HQ (Devourers, RC)
Everything else Jormie:
Zoanthrope
Tyranid Prime
OOE
5 Fexes with mixed weapons
1 Ripper Swarm
2 units of Warriors (x4/x5) with Swords and Deathspitters, dropping in with
2x3 Raveners with Deathspitters.
Go second whenever I can, leaving only T7/2+/-1 to hit fexes to shoot.
Your units arrive in manageable chunks and those fexes are going to take a beating if the enemy get's first turn. You are better off removing the warriors and raveners and totally go all in with the monsters so that every low strength weapon is forced to shoot at a monster. I also would use the 'kraken' fleet for your hive tyrants. Getting out of close combat and assault another units makes them very flexible.
Spoletta wrote:I'm partecipating in a a league at my FLGS with the following rules for the initial list:
- No unique chars
- 1 patrol detachment only
- No models above 220 points
- 1000 points
- No relics
- The general must be narratively in line with a patrol (so no tyrants)
Since there will be many new players and we want to make it really easygoing, i'm thinking that the time has come for me to try Hydra!
What do you think? It should be mildly effective at covering the "Tyranid swarm" experience during the league while not being excessively challenging on the table.
It's a nice casual armylist and tyranids can do really well at low point games. But any decent shooty list will give you problems because the tyranid warriors are really bullet magnets and your only hard hitting unit. First turn, the enemy can take down 5 warriors easily and at the second turn you could be into trouble. You can double the warriors movement with the overdrive stratagem but that means the venomthropes cannot keep up.
Eldarsif wrote:What are people's current opinion on Swarmlords? Have a Hive Tyrant box and tempted to make one.
It's to expensive to be walking around on the field so either drop him in with a tyrannocyte and build you armylist around him (hive commander), or don't bother. Best to use devourer gaunts to remove any bubble wrap and move in the genestealers with the hive commander ability.
This shouldn't be a parameter for selecting the list, but it's worth nothing that in the league there are no AM or Eldar. As far as i remeber we have BA, DA, GK, Khorne, Thousand sons, Necron, and Tau.
2017/12/14 11:42:01
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
killerpenguin wrote: Do tyranids get any top positions in tournaments with our new codex?
Tyranids are fast now and got great board control, but in a tournament setting it got 3 problems:
1: Tyranids can take a decent amount of incoming fire but it could not be enough to ensure that solid win and getting full tournament points. Astra M shooting with first turn still hurts.
2: Time. Lots of models movement and assault can really drain the time and tyranid armies can really use round 4/5 to tip the balance to get that full massacre.
3: enemy armies adjusting and making sure tyranid units cannot reach the enemy units behind the bubble wrap at round 1 or 2. For example; Torpedo 3 genestealer units forward is very straightforward and so will be the tactics to counter something like that.
2017/12/14 14:47:00
Subject: Re:Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
It's still "early days" but, I think I can make some predictions. Tyranids can make the top 16, easy, top 8, you need some skill. and a little luck (for example making Invuln saves) top 4? That will require playing error free. The basis for this "style" is waiting for, and exploiting a foes error(s).
The problem, is you're playing top foes. So GW did a good job on balance, it's just that some codexes have a little "extra". And time, that is an issue for tournies in general.
The will of the hive is always the same: HUNGER
2017/12/14 15:11:27
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
Tyranids won a GT using the 6th ed Codex. They can definitely win a GT now, they just need a very creative and very good player at the helm. (And some good rolls)
2017/12/14 15:44:16
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
3 Flyrants in a Behemoth Supreme HQ (Devourers, RC)
Everything else Jormie:
Zoanthrope
Tyranid Prime
OOE
5 Fexes with mixed weapons
1 Ripper Swarm
2 units of Warriors (x4/x5) with Swords and Deathspitters, dropping in with
2x3 Raveners with Deathspitters.
Go second whenever I can, leaving only T7/2+/-1 to hit fexes to shoot.
Your units arrive in manageable chunks and those fexes are going to take a beating if the enemy get's first turn. You are better off removing the warriors and raveners and totally go all in with the monsters so that every low strength weapon is forced to shoot at a monster. I also would use the 'kraken' fleet for your hive tyrants. Getting out of close combat and assault another units makes them very flexible.
Why will they arrive in chunks? Other than the Rippers, everything shows up turn 1. My Flyrants don't normally end up stuck in combat, but I've seen others talk about this. Are we talking tarpit countercharges? What type of unit/situation is tarpitting Flyrants?
I tweaked it with another Ripper Swarm, to claim objectives better.
2017/12/14 16:16:41
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
I absolutely think nids can win a GT with our book. Some of it will be matchups and missions, and of course a bit of luck (No one wins a GT if the dice decide to abandon them). We don't always have the best matchups, but we are SUPER strong at board and objective control, meaning we can play to missions and win. Particularly now that there are events that are going entirely off of points, and being tabled doesn't guarantee a major win.
Dark reaper spam is dangerous, but of all the armies out there we're among the best off against it. AM is a super hard matchup, but it's one of those where it only takes one big unit getting into their lines to end the game. Marines are generally a good matchup for us, and I don't see much difference with BA or DA. Chaos is entirely down to what they build, some matchups are easy, some are a bit rougher, but it is never as bad as AM can be.
This is all just my opinion, and even among nid players who play competitively there is a lot of differing opinion on everything.
2017/12/14 16:28:53
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
@traceoftoxin I agree with a lot of what you say. Chaos is the big boogeyman in the meta right now and I feel we struggle against Alpha Legion with nurglings if we go second. But, a lot of people do to be fair. Guard I feel like we can weather relatively well with a Malanthropes protection, as -1 can be very bad for them, but they still shoot a lot. As you say, getting a big unit in to tie them up is crucial. Eldar I think we are relatively well adapted against as we can close with them so quickly, and Eldar anti horde is generally not super effective. What they do have is usualky in more fragile units. Notably it's either 12" Ranger or S3, meaning vs Stealers it's going to be hard to use efficiently. One other army that I've played a lot is the GK/IG soup list, which can be very potent.
2017/12/14 18:31:08
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
3 Flyrants in a Behemoth Supreme HQ (Devourers, RC)
Everything else Jormie:
Zoanthrope
Tyranid Prime
OOE
5 Fexes with mixed weapons
1 Ripper Swarm
2 units of Warriors (x4/x5) with Swords and Deathspitters, dropping in with
2x3 Raveners with Deathspitters.
Go second whenever I can, leaving only T7/2+/-1 to hit fexes to shoot.
Your units arrive in manageable chunks and those fexes are going to take a beating if the enemy get's first turn. You are better off removing the warriors and raveners and totally go all in with the monsters so that every low strength weapon is forced to shoot at a monster. I also would use the 'kraken' fleet for your hive tyrants. Getting out of close combat and assault another units makes them very flexible.
Why will they arrive in chunks? Other than the Rippers, everything shows up turn 1. My Flyrants don't normally end up stuck in combat, but I've seen others talk about this. Are we talking tarpit countercharges? What type of unit/situation is tarpitting Flyrants?
I tweaked it with another Ripper Swarm, to claim objectives better.
Assaulting something juicy at 9 inch 'deep strike' range is wishful thinking. All armies should have some cheap bubble wrap to counter this. So when the enemy starts first the will be shooting at the carnifexes and most likely take down two. It only takes two cheap units that advance forward to push the deep strike bubble back. Hive Tyrants + warriors drop in but the remaining carnifexes are still behind, after one movement phase. Being on the field doesn't mean your army is not moving forward in chunks.
I once used 3 wyverns to countercharge different targets. First shot with them (-1 to hit for moving) and then assaulted a few big targets. To take down a Toughness 6, 12 wound, 3+ save model in one assault phase you either need a lot of lucky dice or Magnus or other close combat powertool.
Traceoftoxin wrote:I absolutely think nids can win a GT with our book. Some of it will be matchups and missions, and of course a bit of luck (No one wins a GT if the dice decide to abandon them). We don't always have the best matchups, but we are SUPER strong at board and objective control, meaning we can play to missions and win. Particularly now that there are events that are going entirely off of points, and being tabled doesn't guarantee a major win.
Dark reaper spam is dangerous, but of all the armies out there we're among the best off against it. AM is a super hard matchup, but it's one of those where it only takes one big unit getting into their lines to end the game. Marines are generally a good matchup for us, and I don't see much difference with BA or DA. Chaos is entirely down to what they build, some matchups are easy, some are a bit rougher, but it is never as bad as AM can be.
This is all just my opinion, and even among nid players who play competitively there is a lot of differing opinion on everything.
Tyranids got the tools to win a GT with lucky opponents and/or dice. But shooting is ,and always will be better then close combat. And other armies are better at that. Also don't forget that tyranids armies could be facing a lot more other tyranid players and it will be bloody (and fun!) but hard to achieve a full massacre win.
2017/12/14 19:41:27
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
Can I put the Kraken chameleon skin relic thingie onto the death leaper?
Apart from being fun, maybe it would take some heat off other targets in the shooting phase if the deathleaper ends up near a juicy unprotected target.
I am I right in thinking the pheromone trail does not work on pyrovores because there is no way to get them into reserve?
2017/12/14 20:08:56
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
Horms reached enemy lines turn one but saviour protocols meant they couldn't do much more than force some pathfinders to fall back. Both units put down, and a Commander drops next to T-fex and drops her to 2W.
T-fex and Neurothrope nuke commander. OOE rolls 12 to reach enemy line, falls on his arse. Warriors engage Drone unit, 3CP enable them to destroy it, time up with me getting libebreajed to equalise.
Think this quick games list needs a dakkafex. Or a deep striker.
Jasper wrote: Can I put the Kraken chameleon skin relic thingie onto the death leaper?
Apart from being fun, maybe it would take some heat off other targets in the shooting phase if the deathleaper ends up near a juicy unprotected target.
I am I right in thinking the pheromone trail does not work on pyrovores because there is no way to get them into reserve?
Hydra Endless Swarm.
It's the single best use of both stratagems in my opinion. You just keep dropping durable, horrible monsters right on their doorstep.
These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
2017/12/14 22:31:30
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
Tyranids got the tools to win a GT with lucky opponents and/or dice. But shooting is ,and always will be better then close combat. And other armies are better at that. Also don't forget that tyranids armies could be facing a lot more other tyranid players and it will be bloody (and fun!) but hard to achieve a full massacre win.
I actually disagree. Proper use of assault can completely stop a shooting army in its tracks. My last match of the GT against AM, if I hadn't cast smite, I would've been able to use his screening units to prevent any shooting at 29 horms and 19 genestealers, popped overrun and adrenaline rush during HIS turn, wipe out his 30 man conscript squad, then be into his army on my turn 2 en masse. The new assault movement rules are SO strong, that properly engaging in assault will make it so the enemy army cannot do anything at all. I've run through 1000+ points of shooting armies with just 1 unit of 19 Genestealers by properly wrapping up units so enemies can't fall back. Shooting allows you to do damage without receiving damage, but assault not only allows you to do damage, it also allows you to shut down an opponent's ability to move, shoot and assault. The biggest thing that is keeping pure shooty armies working atm is criminally undercosted AM units. No other army can stand up to a good assault heavy army with combined arms using only shooting.
8th supremely rewards shooting heavy with a strong counter assault, or assault heavy with screen removal shooting.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/14 22:31:42
2017/12/15 02:12:28
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
Jasper wrote: Can I put the Kraken chameleon skin relic thingie onto the death leaper?
Apart from being fun, maybe it would take some heat off other targets in the shooting phase if the deathleaper ends up near a juicy unprotected target.
I am I right in thinking the pheromone trail does not work on pyrovores because there is no way to get them into reserve?
Hydra Endless Swarm.
It's the single best use of both stratagems in my opinion. You just keep dropping durable, horrible monsters right on their doorstep.
If you are hydra it makes sence to have some units around the same amount of point to resurect them. Say 240 points. 30 devilgaunts, 20 genestealers, some amount of warriors and/or electro hive guards.
Were i to go hydra i would pack a trygon with a devilgaunt bomb. A drop pod full of max sized pyrovores and bring the swarmlord/tyrant guard with some genestealers. Save some points to resurrect whatever gets killed and place a couple lictors in reserve to drop them where i need them.
Its easy enough for an opponent to decide to wipe out your stealers. But its just gotta be disheartening to have them come back at full strengththe next turn.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Same with the tyrant guard doubling up the ablative wounds on the sl. The devil gaunt bomb doing a second salvo. The pyrovores just burning everything down. Its all aweful.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/15 03:04:44
These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
2017/12/15 08:45:13
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
Is anyone else using the Sporefield Stratagem. I'm finding reserving the points for 2 minimum units of mines is extremely useful as many armies have either deepstrike elements or infiltrating screens to screen out our deepstrikers. Because of the timing on sporefield it gets to go before everything else that infiltrates except ratlings (with which it must roll off, so still 50/50). It completely shuts down the ability of Alpha legion to use forward operatives after they have already spent the command points and prevents Alaitoc Rangers from pushing back ravener/trygon drops. Also prevents any first turn deepstrikes against our army should that protection be needed for, say, a Kronos castle.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/15 10:50:30
So 
