6th edition rumour and news summary (1st post updated daily with new info!)

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**Palindrome**

Leth wrote:

Does the GW gremlin sneak into your house and change your army builder lists? Does Matt Ward show up with a gun and say "Take this unit, copy it three times OR ELSE". No? Then it is 100% you making a choice on what unit you are going to take.

Of course it is yet when unit A is more points effeicent than unit B what do you think will get taken more often? This is espeically the case when people get their list building ideas from forums. It is entirely GW's fault that units are significantly more points efficent than their peers.
Personally I have always built my lists from a fluff perspective but a lot of people seem to build their lists entirely around in game effectiveness and it is these people who tend to use identical armies.

**Pyriel-**

I know it has been mentioned before but terminators gave example of only having their armor beaten by power fists , axes ...

At the risk of getting shouted out by the eldar banshees are no good anymore

At least banshees dont cost 40p a piece.

Anyone know how force weapons will be treated (AP)?
If they are only power weapons then I see absolutely no use of ever taking GK terminators with anything other then a hammer.
If they are then there goes all the time and effort I put into painting non hammer terminators down the drain.

**portugus**

I'm not sure assaulty armies got nerfed. They can get up in your face real quick if what all I am reading is correct here. So instead of getting hit by normal BS for 2-3 turns while you run of ride up to the enemy you are getting hit 1-2 turns, one of which is BS1. (Bear in mind this is based off what I have read here)

One person said everybody within 6 inches gets to participate in the assault, so if that's right than you're getting more models into combat or at least easier.

One thing had me worried as I do power blob IG. Removing from the front in close combat. But if the 6 inch participation thing is right then I can have my sergeants and commmissar in the back still in CC just fine. Here's hoping anyway.

**dæl**

Is it just me or did Swooping Hawks just become good? Haywire grenades and possibly assaulting flyers, yes please. Any news on what Hull points gravtanks might get? I'm hoping for 3, and that the next 'dex makes holofields a 4++.

And with all the nerfs to assault I think we may see a return of consolidating into a new assault.

**Joe Mama**

Pyriel- wrote:
Anyone know how force weapons will be treated (AP)?
If they are only power weapons then I see absolutely no use of ever taking GK terminators with anything other then a hammer.

Are you joking? It is hard to tell online. If you had all hammers, with a 2+/5++ you could still lose quite a few guys before you swing, since all of your GKT would go last. Seems like halberds or swords would still be very useful.

**balsak_da_mighty**

Yeah I am expecting this to be purely a shooting edition. With all thats known as of yet, assaults are just not going to be viable.

Glad I play shooty Orks.

I am not so sure they would be any good if they didn't shoot.

**Zid**

I love that you no longer roll results on glances; will make things go sooooo much faster! And ap1 is +2 to result? Yeash! Meltas just got a whole lot more deadly. My dark eldar will cry (+3 to the result!)

Wonder how open topped will work, doubt they will follow the "only disembark 6" or less"

**Griever**

Da Butcha wrote:
Griever wrote:[
Orks allying with fething everybody is especially slowed. Orks don't fething ally with anybody.

OK, this is the part I just had to comment on. It's specifically part of the long-standing, well-established, uncontradicted background that Blood Axe clan orks trade with, and fight for, Imperial forces on occasion. It's also part of the long-standing, well-established, uncontradicted background that Von Straab allied with the orks on Armageddon to protect his cowardly hide (even to the point of having an orkish bodyguard contingent).

Orks specifically do ally with at least some people.

Either you are unaware of long-standing GW background, in which case you shouldn't be harping on it, or you don't care what the background is, and are just complaining because you don't like the Allies rules.

I'm not pretending that I think the Allies rules are perfect, and some of them appear to be inconsistent or totally irrational (BT & Sisters can't get along?). Of course, they will be abused by some/many players. I can't think of any coherent way to argue against that.

On the other hand, a LOT of the alliances make sense if you think of them like this:

On the board, you have two groups of models. The models that come out of your points allowance, that do stuff on your turn, and the models that do stuff on the opponent's turn and do stuff then. If it's not one of them, it's one of yours. It's either 'your army', or your 'allies'.

Thinking of it in terms of the game universe, if you and some orks are fighting, and a massive amount of Tyranids show up, neither you, nor the orks, can win if the tyranids aren't defeated. You and the orks are allies against the tyranids.

Games Workshop isn't going to rewrite their rules set (especially not when releasing a new edition with new rules already) to cover 3+ sided battles that break the IGO-UGO model of their game. They just aren't going to do that. Thus, if you want three different armies on the battlefield, two of them have to be on the same side. That's all "Allies" means to me.

If you want to play a game with three or more sides, then you're welcome to do so as a house game, but I don't think you can expect support for it in the basic rulebook support from GW.

I'm not defending their specific alliance rules. I haven't really read those rules, other than the limited amount posted in their previews. I'm just acknowledging that there are three real options for allowing someone (yourself, or another player) to field a third army on the tabletop:

You can't. There are only two sides.
You can. Make up your own rules to do it.
Fine, but they fight on one of the two pre-existing sides.

The fourth isn't something GW is doing right now:

OK. Here's rules for 3+ way battles that depart substantially from the alternating turn ruleset that we have flogged for 25 years. We rewrote everything so it makes sense with more than two sides.

Why do we need to fight multiple sided battles in the space of one game? The whole point of the game is two face each other with two armies and duke it out.

I understand three times in the entire fluff Orks may have been eluded to helping Space Marines, but this is going to enable a Space Marine player to permanently include units from the ORK CODEX in his army against every enemy he could every want. I just don't see how that makes sense. People are going to pick and choose the best units from another codex and slap them into their army based on what makes their army better.

You guys thought GW sucked at balancing codexes before, not you get to deal with not only codex V codex balance, but also codex/codex v codex/codex balance.

Have fun with that.

**Leth**

Palindrome wrote:
Leth wrote:

Does the GW gremlin sneak into your house and change your army builder lists? Does Matt Ward show up with a gun and say "Take this unit, copy it three times OR ELSE". No? Then it is 100% you making a choice on what unit you are going to take.

Of course it is yet when unit A is more points effeicent than unit B what do you think will get taken more often? This is espeically the case when people get their list building ideas from forums. It is entirely GW's fault that units are significantly more points efficent than their peers.
Personally I have always built my lists from a fluff perspective but a lot of people seem to build their lists entirely around in game effectiveness and it is these people who tend to use identical armies.

Yep and I have no problem with that. It is just this complete lack of ownership for the armies that people are playing. YOU are choosing to take that list. YOU are deciding that this is how you want to play.

Its the "GW is making me take these units because they are obviously better than others" vrs "I want the best list possible and so I am taking these units"

Very similar result, but a very different mentality or approach. One implies a level of powerlessness over their army where as the other states a level of control. I personally think most of it stems from the not wanting to take responsibility for bringing an army that is not interesting to play against for some people. "I didnt want to bring this list but the mean ole GW made me"

I am going to NOVA this fall, bringing my necrons. I am in no way shape or form bringing an optimized list, I am bringing a list that I want to play. Luckily for me the NOVA braketing format allows me to do this and still have a fun time. I expect the first game or two to suck, and then after that I will be playing like minded players and it will be a blast. I just went to a tournament last weekend and even when I destroyed my opponent we still had a fun time and he said my list was really cool and good. I remember when everyone was suprised when they saw my army. The first thing the said was "No scarabs, no wraiths?" Good times.

**HAZZER**

JB wrote:
HAZZER wrote:
JB wrote:
HAZZER wrote:I'll reapate the question I asked a few pages ago becuase I've not no resonce;

Dice and tape mesure limted edtion? I was told in GW they wasen't going to be? HELP!!!!!!!!!!

Why are you worried? Just order them when they are finally available. You haven't missed them yet.

Thanks, do you know how long the delay is going to be?

No. Kroothawk is keeping the latest information on release dates on Page 1 of this thread. Please read that information. You will see the original scheduled release dates as well as the note from GW's Facebook page which mentioned the delay.

Kroot is doing a lot of work on that page to keep it up to date. It's well worth a visit.

Thanks a lot! i must of missed that info cause' I've been reading the first page, thanks anyway...

**rigeld2**

portugus wrote:I'm not sure assaulty armies got nerfed. They can get up in your face real quick if what all I am reading is correct here. So instead of getting hit by normal BS for 2-3 turns while you run of ride up to the enemy you are getting hit 1-2 turns, one of which is BS1. (Bear in mind this is based off what I have read here)

The only thing that makes them faster is the random charge range. Which could also make them slower.

One person said everybody within 6 inches gets to participate in the assault, so if that's right than you're getting more models into combat or at least easier.

I normally don't have a problem getting everyone in except in weird circumstances, but the 6" rumor had to do with multiple ruins levels.

One thing had me worried as I do power blob IG. Removing from the front in close combat. But if the 6 inch participation thing is right then I can have my sergeants and commmissar in the back still in CC just fine. Here's hoping anyway.

You can have 2 ranks of goons die before the Commisar and sergeant are threatened. Not that big a deal.

**HAZZER**

Both collectors edition and gamers edition sold out? Well that shows how popular it is...

**GoDz BuZzSaW**

It'd be nice if GW make it more balanced, it's always nice to see everyone having varying armies as opposed to everyone collecting Draigowing or Crowewing or the like.

**rabidaskal**

Griever wrote:
I understand three times in the entire fluff Orks may have been eluded to helping Space Marines, but this is going to enable a Space Marine player to permanently include units from the ORK CODEX in his army against every enemy he could every want. I just don't see how that makes sense.

We didn't ALLY with those pansy marine boyz, we LOOTED ALL THEIR TANKZ!!!!!

All me Big Meks are happy now that we got propa looted wagons back!!

**tetrisphreak**

rabidaskal wrote:
Griever wrote:
I understand three times in the entire fluff Orks may have been eluded to helping Space Marines, but this is going to enable a Space Marine player to permanently include units from the ORK CODEX in his army against every enemy he could every want. I just don't see how that makes sense.

We didn't ALLY with those pansy marine boyz, we LOOTED ALL THEIR TANKZ!!!!!

All me Big Meks are happy now that we got propa looted wagons back!!

I like the way you think. Other people should tell stories like these with their funky alliances as well.

JB

Hazzer, can you tone down the font size on that last post of yours? Not many of us need to know that the UK site is out of advance order bundles and/or editions.

The US site still has collector's edition and gamer's editions up for advance order. You might try that. Combined bundles appear to be out. I don't recall seeing ever seeing anything with that name.

As for the rumored demise of assault armies, I'm not buying it yet. Let's wait for the rulebook before we start shoveling dirt into that grave.

Transports still carry models. You still have smoke dischargers. You get to disembark 6" from the access point and then assault 2D6. Fleet models will probably disembark 6", run D6, and then assault 2D6.

As for BS1 snap fire, it isn't going to drop many attackers unless you are crazy enough to assault a fresh 50 man IG blob with its heavy weapons and flamers. Even then, you will get in and start carving them up.

Maybe you can't just drive across an open field in the face of a 100 model gunline but when was that ever a good idea...3rd Edition?

The scenario setup, grenade rules, and scoring methodology also influence our tabletop calculus. There are a lot of unknown variables that remain.

**Pyriel-**

You guys thought GW sucked at balancing codexes before, not you get to deal with not only codex V codex balance, but also codex/codex v codex/codex balance.

Have fun with that.

Precisely!
I shudder to think of all the new cheese lists with IG+GK or what have you.
And we all thought razor, venom, vendetta (etc) spam was bad.

**Davor**

JB wrote:
puree wrote:Re: the glances removing a hull point.

Is that confirmed, I see on the page 1 snippets several references to gauss removing a hull point, but nothing about glances generally doing that.

I wouldn't say that it is confirmed. Kroothawk used this reference on Page 1 of this thread:

Added 24th June, from ZAlpha from fastdicerolling. com
http://www.fastdicerolling.com/forum/topic/305-6th-edition-information-thread-with-rules-on-page-3/page__st__40__p__4502_ :

He made it a spoiler so you wouldn't have read it unless you clicked the spoiler button.

This has been posted already, twice in fact. People hear right now, don't care for new rules, but just want to argue about allies or how broken 6th editon is now. Sad now eh? I am almost thinking I am back at Warseer again.

**GoDz BuZzSaW**

DRAIGO!!! AWW YEAH!!! TEAMING UP WITH EVERY ARMY TO SAVE THE UNIVERSE!!!

**balsak_da_mighty**

JB wrote:Transports still carry models. You still have smoke dischargers. You get to disembark 6" from the access point and then assault 2D6. Fleet models will probably disembark 6", run D6, and then assault 2D6.

I have not seen anything that makes this statement true. There is nothing that I have seen that says you can assault out of a vehicle, as of yet. As istated I think this is going to be a shooty ed. with what we know as of yet. But what about foot assault armies? Its hard to get a 30 man boys squad in transport. What about 30 gaunts? Not every army has transports for their assault based squads. But we shall see soon enough I guess.

**morgendonner**

tetrisphreak wrote:
rabidaskal wrote:
Griever wrote:
I understand three times in the entire fluff Orks may have been eluded to helping Space Marines, but this is going to enable a Space Marine player to permanently include units from the ORK CODEX in his army against every enemy he could every want. I just don't see how that makes sense.

We didn't ALLY with those pansy marine boyz, we LOOTED ALL THEIR TANKZ!!!!!

All me Big Meks are happy now that we got propa looted wagons back!!

I like the way you think. Other people should tell stories like these with their funky alliances as well.

I agree. As much as the ally rules potentially irk me, I definitely look forward to making traitor guard for my CSM. I've always kind of wanted an IG force, but never wanted to make a whole army so I have to admit GW is gonna end up getting me with this one probably. I do hope if allies become widely accepted that most people make effort to match them up with their main force.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Pyriel- wrote:
You guys thought GW sucked at balancing codexes before, not you get to deal with not only codex V codex balance, but also codex/codex v codex/codex balance.

Have fun with that.

Precisely!
I shudder to think of all the new cheese lists with IG+GK or what have you.
And we all thought razor, venom, vendetta (etc) spam was bad.

I actually don't think IG and GK will be the big winners of the ally system, I think they'd rather just take more of their own units.

**tetrisphreak**

Have there been any confirmations/leaks of the end of random game length?

**d-usa**

Draigo/Creed bro-fist diorama time?

**Earthbeard**

HAZZER wrote:Both collectors edition and gamers edition sold out? Well that shows how popular it is...

without exact numbers on stock levels of both, it shows little really.

**GoDz BuZzSaW**

balsak_da_mighty wrote:
JB wrote:Transports still carry models. You still have smoke dischargers. You get to disembark 6" from the access point and then assault 2D6. Fleet models will probably disembark 6", run D6, and then assault 2D6.

I have not seen anything that makes this statement true. There is nothing that I have seen that says you can assault out of a vehicle, as of yet. As istated I think this is going to be a shooty ed. with what we know as of yet. But what about foot assault armies? Its hard to get a 30 man boys squad in transport. What about 30 gaunts? Not every army has transports for their assault based squads. But we shall see soon enough I guess.

I thought fleet meant you can re-roll the charge distance? That's what i thought it said in the WD Battle Rep anyway.

**ColdSadHungry**

dæl wrote:Is it just me or did Swooping Hawks just become good? Haywire grenades and possibly assaulting flyers, yes please. Any news on what Hull points gravtanks might get? I'm hoping for 3, and that the next 'dex makes holofields a 4++.

And with all the nerfs to assault I think we may see a return of consolidating into a new assault.

Just what I was thinking. Hawks never require worse than 4+ to hit a vehicle in CC either.

**warboss**

d-usa wrote:How many points for Forge World Terrain?

I'm guessing it'll be a 1:1 ratio for its price in USD.

**balsak_da_mighty**

GoDz BuZzSaW wrote:
balsak_da_mighty wrote:
JB wrote:Transports still carry models. You still have smoke dischargers. You get to disembark 6" from the access point and then assault 2D6. Fleet models will probably disembark 6", run D6, and then assault 2D6.

I have not seen anything that makes this statement true. There is nothing that I have seen that says you can assault out of a vehicle, as of yet. As I stated I think this is going to be a shooty ed with what we know as of yet. But what about foot assault armies? Its hard to get a 30 man boys squad in transport. What about 30 gaunts? Not every army has transports for their assault based squads. But we shall see soon enough I guess.

I thought fleet meant you can re-roll the charge distance? That's what i thought it said in the WD Battle Rep anyway.

Thats what I have gathered from fleet as well. But run is still in the game from what I have seen as well. He is saying that you can hop out of transport and assault. Now this would be a nice addition, but I have not seen anything to say that this is a viable option.

**lord_blackfang**

rabidaskal wrote:We didn't ALLY with those pansy marine boyz, we LOOTED ALL THEIR TANKZ!!!!!

All me Big Meks are happy now that we got propa looted wagons back!!

The problem is having to explain how a Captain and a squad of Marines follow the Ork warband around to baby-sit the looted Land Raider.

**Morathi's Darkest Sin**

lord_blackfang wrote:
rabidaskal wrote:We didn't ALLY with those pansy marine boyz, we LOOTED ALL THEIR TANKZ!!!!!

All me Big Meks are happy now that we got propa looted wagons back!!

The problem is having to explain how a Captain and a squad of Marines follow the Ork warband around to baby-sit the looted Land Raider.

As I said in a thread in 40K general earlier today, one of the things I am looking forward to in particular regarding the new allies system, is to what madness and crazy awesome conversions Ork players get up to introducing looted equivilent of actual units from rival books.

Those inspired fellas who did Ork Dreadknight conversions, could now in effect use them as Dreadnights.