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 NAVARRO wrote:
Not inclined to do an Archaon faction so its easy to skip these... If they released Nurgle things then it would be more problematic.
Design is different of what I would expect so its a 50/50 for me, the price kills any potential impulse buy though.

I'm holding out a bit of hope that the fact Rotbringers got a section on the webstore, but have not received a battle tome yet, might mean there's a battle tome or possibly even further update to that faction coming down the line.

MongooseMatt wrote:

 Grimskul wrote:
I'm dreading the updates for other armies now considering this is the new norm they're going for. Half the reason why 8th edition WFB did so poorly was because of the high entry costs to get a proper army going, they just seem to be doubling down on that problem.

You need less.

Those three Knights are going to be a viable unit. In 8th, you would have likely been looking at getting two or three boxes to make a decent unit. Much the same applies with everything else (speaking as a Dark Elf player who had a unit of Witch Elves...).

Yeah but the three Varanguard knights cost $100 and a box of 5 Chaos Knights costs $33 so I can get 15 Knights for the price of 3 Varanguard so I'm getting a viable unit for the price in WFB 8th as well. It's just a matter of whether or not a gamer would prefer 15 Chaos Knights in WFB or 3 Varanguard in AoS.

 Mymearan wrote:

 Zywus wrote:
Why the obsession with size? I'm sure you can get a chunk of plastic 10 times the weight and size of those knights for a pittance.

Surely what's important is the quality and quantity of the sculpts?

You obviously can't ignore size when looking at value. Big beasties are always more expensive.

Is it like the size of an elephant?

coldgaming wrote:

 NAVARRO wrote:
Not inclined to do an Archaon faction so its easy to skip these... If they released Nurgle things then it would be more problematic.
Design is different of what I would expect so its a 50/50 for me, the price kills any potential impulse buy though.

I'm holding out a bit of hope that the fact Rotbringers got a section on the webstore, but have not received a battle tome yet, might mean there's a battle tome or possibly even further update to that faction coming down the line.

Same here, at the moment Im building around it by getting the available kits but Im willing to bet we are going to have some mounted Nurgle nasties of some kind in the future.

I'm really surprised that some people don't like these. I think the models are amazing.

I'm completely dismayed by the price.

 oni wrote:
I'm really surprised that some people don't like these. I think the models are amazing.

I'm completely dismayed by the price.

Considering they are charging the same as they did for the old pewter blood dragon knights for plastic is insane.

Yeah, they're pretty nice.

5 for ~20 pounds would've been appropriate

RoninXiC wrote:
Yeah, they're pretty nice.

5 for ~20 pounds would've been appropriate

5 for £20 would not have happened ever.

 Ravenous D wrote:

 oni wrote:
I'm really surprised that some people don't like these. I think the models are amazing.

I'm completely dismayed by the price.

Considering they are charging the same as they did for the old pewter blood dragon knights for plastic is insane.

I like metal minis like everyone else, though a big part of it is nostalgia. That said, I really don't understand why people think that a plastic mini should be any cheaper. Almost every modern GW plastic mini is far more intricate than its older metal counterpart, for models like these you don't have to pin, which is a big pain in the rear, and surfaces match precisely almost 100% of the time on new, small minis, with clever covering pieces that reduce the amount of putty/gs work dramatically. Plus, they're infinitely better gaming pieces, because they don't fall apart.

Yes, the material is less valuable. But how many people take their lead or pewter minis and melt them down? How many people value their collection of minis by the value of the raw material? It's almost all packaging, distribution, and profit in that box anyways, regardless of the material. I mean, in almost every case, minis are priced based on what people will pay for them and what the company wants to make, not on material cost. It's the same reason that digital downloads of bestseller games are not discounted even though they cost less to produce than media counterparts; the price is just based on how much the company thinks people will pay.

I tend to agree, I would happily pay the same price for a plastic model of equal quality than I would a metal model. Metal doesn't really hold any extra value for me, and I much rather working with plastic.

I'm more surprised when someone isn't even a little bit dismayed over 3 for 100 US$ / 80 EUR / 60 £!

All the new designs are getting me really vamped for the new fire slayers though. I can't wait for those guys!

HOW FETHING MUCH?
I mean, a year ago I would have said fething terminators were too expensive but this is getting absolutely ridiculous.

 Alpharius wrote:
I'm more surprised when someone isn't even a little bit dismayed over 3 for 100 US$ / 80 EUR / 60 £!

I'm not, considering the poster.

Also, Talys, your paint jobs are beautiful in the painting thread. I don't wanna look TOO mean.

I kind of wish they'd just given us the old Chaos Knight designs with more dynamic poses.

Skullcrushers still look miles better than these.

 Alpharius wrote:
I'm more surprised when someone isn't even a little bit dismayed over 3 for 100 US$ / 80 EUR / 60 £!

To be fair, I probably wont get them, at least not right away.

At $50, I'd buy them, they'd go on a shelf and I would dream of painting them one day. At $100, I'll happily buy them when I want to model them. But realistically, that will never happen because there will always be something else I want to work on more, usually with a cool futuristic weapon attached to it. About the only way I'm likely to get this is if it shows up as a doorcrasher for a sale.

Which isn't to say that I'm complaining about the price; quite the opposite... It's high enough that I won't frivolously buy it just to line a shelf, and low enough that discounted, I wont feel overpriced if I want to model it Threading the needle!!

 Talys wrote:

 Ravenous D wrote:

 oni wrote:
I'm really surprised that some people don't like these. I think the models are amazing.

I'm completely dismayed by the price.

Considering they are charging the same as they did for the old pewter blood dragon knights for plastic is insane.

I like metal minis like everyone else, though a big part of it is nostalgia. That said, I really don't understand why people think that a plastic mini should be any cheaper.

Because GW themselves so much as said so when they began producing these multi part plastic kits around 18 years ago.

If the company tells you in their own monthly publication that the sole reason for these kits is to make affordable armies your customers are going to take such a thing as gospel.

 Talys wrote:

 Ravenous D wrote:

 oni wrote:
I'm really surprised that some people don't like these. I think the models are amazing.

I'm completely dismayed by the price.

Considering they are charging the same as they did for the old pewter blood dragon knights for plastic is insane.

I like metal minis like everyone else, though a big part of it is nostalgia. That said, I really don't understand why people think that a plastic mini should be any cheaper. Almost every modern GW plastic mini is far more intricate than its older metal counterpart, for models like these you don't have to pin, which is a big pain in the rear, and surfaces match precisely almost 100% of the time on new, small minis, with clever covering pieces that reduce the amount of putty/gs work dramatically. Plus, they're infinitely better gaming pieces, because they don't fall apart.

Yes, the material is less valuable. But how many people take their lead or pewter minis and melt them down? How many people value their collection of minis by the value of the raw material? It's almost all packaging, distribution, and profit in that box anyways, regardless of the material. I mean, in almost every case, minis are priced based on what people will pay for them and what the company wants to make, not on material cost. It's the same reason that digital downloads of bestseller games are not discounted even though they cost less to produce than media counterparts; the price is just based on how much the company thinks people will pay.

Plastic costs next to nothing at the industrial level and its all computer made after that, the process has only gotten cheaper as time goes on yet GW charges more. Its not a hard concept to grasp. They are keeping the price as is or rising on items that should be cheaper. Not to mention age of shitmar is suppose to be their "entry level" system, its pretty discouraging when 3 models worth $3 of plastic is $120. It certainly isn't winning over the people that threw AoS in the dust.

GW has entered the age where they are now charging x4 what a model should cost, they got away with it when it was x2 for awhile but now they've just gone overboard.

Brighter news is the Chinese recasters quality is only getting better.

I even doubt they are THAT much bigger than normal Chaos Knights. Those are rather big. Just give them more dynamic poses (no one needs for a rank and file system but whatever AOS), make the horses lift 2 of their feet and tada.

5 Chaos Knights on 60mm round bases for 20 pounds.

 Ravenous D wrote:
the process has only gotten cheaper as time goes on yet GW charges more. Its not a hard concept to grasp

As long as it takes at least one person to make the models, there is a salary to be paid. I'm assuming there is more than one person working per model design...
Not saying that it takes a year per model (although, it might, throughout the entire design phase) but between that, and the cost of making the molds, and storage & shipping and all that other stuff that they have to pay for, the cost of the plastic itself has little to nothing to do with the cost of the model.

Rihgu wrote:

 Ravenous D wrote:
the process has only gotten cheaper as time goes on yet GW charges more. Its not a hard concept to grasp

As long as it takes at least one person to make the models, there is a salary to be paid. I'm assuming there is more than one person working per model design...
Not saying that it takes a year per model (although, it might, throughout the entire design phase) but between that, and the cost of making the molds, and storage & shipping and all that other stuff that they have to pay for, the cost of the plastic itself has little to nothing to do with the cost of the model.

Which is a grand total of 8% (IIRC) of the model's cost. It's buried in their financial report somewhere, someone more literate in those documents can grab this please.

I saw these and thought "Oh nice unit of knights for my WoC force" then saw the price tag! I might as well buy into another game system for that and probably have a complete force/team/gang etc

What's raw materials got to do with retail price. The raw materials involved in many creative type industries are minuscule, it is things like demand, supply, perceived value by rational consumers and other such stuff in western style economic theories etc that determines 'correct' market price, not raw materials particularly..

Well... they got me, with that Tzeentch sorcerer on disc.

Warhams-77 wrote:
Varanguard Knights - 3 for 100 US$ / 80 EUR / 60 £

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!

oh man i can't even bre-

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAAAHAHAAAAAAAAAAA

 Da Boss wrote:
Still a huge rip off. Better go get a box of the old knights while I still can!

Soooooo True Boss

They look nice, but that to much $ for me. big pass on those


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ravenous D wrote:

 Talys wrote:

 Ravenous D wrote:

 oni wrote:
I'm really surprised that some people don't like these. I think the models are amazing.

I'm completely dismayed by the price.

Considering they are charging the same as they did for the old pewter blood dragon knights for plastic is insane.

I like metal minis like everyone else, though a big part of it is nostalgia. That said, I really don't understand why people think that a plastic mini should be any cheaper. Almost every modern GW plastic mini is far more intricate than its older metal counterpart, for models like these you don't have to pin, which is a big pain in the rear, and surfaces match precisely almost 100% of the time on new, small minis, with clever covering pieces that reduce the amount of putty/gs work dramatically. Plus, they're infinitely better gaming pieces, because they don't fall apart.

Yes, the material is less valuable. But how many people take their lead or pewter minis and melt them down? How many people value their collection of minis by the value of the raw material? It's almost all packaging, distribution, and profit in that box anyways, regardless of the material. I mean, in almost every case, minis are priced based on what people will pay for them and what the company wants to make, not on material cost. It's the same reason that digital downloads of bestseller games are not discounted even though they cost less to produce than media counterparts; the price is just based on how much the company thinks people will pay.

Plastic costs next to nothing at the industrial level and its all computer made after that, the process has only gotten cheaper as time goes on yet GW charges more. Its not a hard concept to grasp. They are keeping the price as is or rising on items that should be cheaper. Not to mention age of shitmar is suppose to be their "entry level" system, its pretty discouraging when 3 models worth $3 of plastic is $120. It certainly isn't winning over the people that threw AoS in the dust.

GW has entered the age where they are now charging x4 what a model should cost, they got away with it when it was x2 for awhile but now they've just gone overboard.

Brighter news is the Chinese recasters quality is only getting better.

Hear Hear!
Fully agree 100% Ravenous D

Even after 20 years, GW can still suprise me. I'm impressed.

And i thought Warmachine mounted miniatures were expensive, GW wins!

That said, I really don't understand why people think that a plastic mini should be any cheaper.

Because Games Workshop used to make a point of saying that their switching from metal to plastic models was a conscious decision in order to save money both in production and for the buyer. And back in the day it showed. The 2nd edition metal Tactical Squad cost around $35. The new plastic, bigger, more detailed and more intricate plastic Tactical Marines at the dawn of the 3rd edition cost I believe $17.99 originally.

These were the prices in the same year, keep in mind. Superior plastic squads and regiments used to be half the cost of their older metal counterparts. Now GW charges more for plastic than their older inferior metal units ever cost.

Costs aside, these models are getting more and more intricate! The trend is that the newer plastics are far superior in terms of technical detail and posing to plastics that are from as recent as 5 years ago. Compare these to Grey Knights and Dark Eldar for example. I sure hope they continue to modernize the rest of the fantasy races to match this new level of detail!

If they ever released a new faction of new dynamic-style orc kin I would probably go bankrupt. Here's hoping!