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Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





So kick ass melee are you gonna run 3lord D's 3EXE's or greater possessed?


or some supreme command combo?

Im thinking 3 lord D's with 1-2 exe and elite slot of some greater possessed should be able to eat most things on a table and still leave plenty of points for competitive options!
   
Made in de
Hellacious Havoc




The Realm of Hungry Ghosts

topaxygouroun i wrote:


Can we put a greater possessed in a rhino? And how many places does he occupy?


Why not? The GP is <LEGION> INFANTRY. It takes up 1 slot, just like a Chaos Lord or Sorcerer for example.

Bharring wrote:
At worst, you'll spend all your time and money on a hobby you don't enjoy, hate everything you're doing, and drive no value out of what should be the best times of your life.
 
   
Made in ro
Rampaging Khorne Dreadnought






Not Online!!! wrote:
mrtomski wrote:
So one thing I was thinking about it taking a rhino and packing with a couple of nasty combat characters and beserkers.

One character I like the look of is a exalted champion with the murder sword.

With world eaters he has 5 attacks on the charge hitting on 2s, so a good chance to kill a 5 wound character without breaking a sweat, all in a nice cheap model which can support the beserkers.

I see a lot of debate about the black legion lord 2 mortal wound on a 6+ setup, but what worries me about that is the investment in CP and warlord..


I personally would pick the greater possed due to the better ammount of attacks and price over him but preference.


I believe the point was to buff the zerkers, the GP only affects darmons.that and he can,t really take any relics
   
Made in de
Regular Dakkanaut




 Roknar wrote:
Not Online!!! wrote:
mrtomski wrote:
So one thing I was thinking about it taking a rhino and packing with a couple of nasty combat characters and beserkers.

One character I like the look of is a exalted champion with the murder sword.

With world eaters he has 5 attacks on the charge hitting on 2s, so a good chance to kill a 5 wound character without breaking a sweat, all in a nice cheap model which can support the beserkers.

I see a lot of debate about the black legion lord 2 mortal wound on a 6+ setup, but what worries me about that is the investment in CP and warlord..


I personally would pick the greater possed due to the better ammount of attacks and price over him but preference.


I believe the point was to buff the zerkers, the GP only affects darmons.that and he can,t really take any relics


Great possessed is interesting...

He's tougher for sure, but the WE exalted champion can reroll against characters with ws2 and basically put out 5 mortal wounds reliably against a char, (possibly more more against imperium with some 6s to hit). In addition he's granting everyone near him full wound rerolls in combat. Since beserkers s6 they are going to threaten anything in that scenario. With the guys I play with i see a lot of storm shields so I'd love a way to bypass them.

He is 4w and no invun, but also only 74 points. I'd probably already have a lord with him, so I guess it really comes down to is the wound reroll worth compromising survivability?
   
Made in ch
The Dread Evil Lord Varlak





mrtomski wrote:
 Roknar wrote:
Not Online!!! wrote:
mrtomski wrote:
So one thing I was thinking about it taking a rhino and packing with a couple of nasty combat characters and beserkers.

One character I like the look of is a exalted champion with the murder sword.

With world eaters he has 5 attacks on the charge hitting on 2s, so a good chance to kill a 5 wound character without breaking a sweat, all in a nice cheap model which can support the beserkers.

I see a lot of debate about the black legion lord 2 mortal wound on a 6+ setup, but what worries me about that is the investment in CP and warlord..


I personally would pick the greater possed due to the better ammount of attacks and price over him but preference.


I believe the point was to buff the zerkers, the GP only affects darmons.that and he can,t really take any relics


Great possessed is interesting...

He's tougher for sure, but the WE exalted champion can reroll against characters with ws2 and basically put out 5 mortal wounds reliably against a char, (possibly more more against imperium with some 6s to hit). In addition he's granting everyone near him full wound rerolls in combat. Since beserkers s6 they are going to threaten anything in that scenario. With the guys I play with i see a lot of storm shields so I'd love a way to bypass them.

He is 4w and no invun, but also only 74 points. I'd probably already have a lord with him, so I guess it really comes down to is the wound reroll worth compromising survivability?

1, 1, 8? That would work immo,
Is it worth it, depends on what you catch.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units."
Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?"
Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?"
GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!"
Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.  
   
Made in us
Loyal Necron Lychguard





Is there anything competitive with Alpha Legion for a devastation battery? Red Corsairs is great for feeding the CP-hungry detachment but it seems like you really want the units in this detachment to have access to Vets. Don't think the other legions have anything that would be particularly relevant to Havocs/Oblits.
   
Made in se
Dakka Veteran





I present to you, the Assassin Lord.

Flawless Host Chaos Lord with Jumppack and Murder Sword - clocks in at 97 pts.

Give him the FH Warlord Trait and +1 to hit and he will on average get 9,33 attacks against imperium and 8 attacks against non-imperium.

These attacks will on average result in 9,07 / 7,78 Mortal Wounds on their allotted target, depending on if they're imperium or not.

The Flawless Host Daemon Prince is a better blender, but this lord is almost half the price and is still decent at munching trough regular RnF with his (on average) 9,33 / 8 S5 AP4 attacks.

5500 pts
6500 pts
7000 pts
9000 pts
13.000 pts
 
   
Made in de
Regular Dakkanaut




 MinscS2 wrote:
I present to you, the Assassin Lord.

Flawless Host Chaos Lord with Jumppack and Murder Sword - clocks in at 97 pts.

Give him the FH Warlord Trait and +1 to hit and he will on average get 9,33 attacks against imperium and 8 attacks against non-imperium.

These attacks will on average result in 9,07 / 7,78 Mortal Wounds on their allotted target, depending on if they're imperium or not.

The Flawless Host Daemon Prince is a better blender, but this lord is almost half the price and is still decent at munching trough regular RnF with his (on average) 9,33 / 8 S5 AP4 attacks.


Nice, 8 mortal wounds is no joke, banking on rolling at least 1 5 or 6 though.

I guess then the question is, is 3 mortal wounds in combat worth your WL trait?

Interesting point that most people will make thier lead knight a character, so fight twice to almost kill it?

Is there even more synergy to be had with host raptorial? 7" charge to help him get there..
   
Made in se
Dakka Veteran





mrtomski wrote:

I guess then the question is, is 3 mortal wounds in combat worth your WL trait?


The Flawless Host WL-trait is amazing. It's incredibly bursty/spiky though.

Roll poorly (i.e. not a single 5+ on 4 dice) and the damage output is severely hampered (4 mortal wounds on average still isn't bad.)
Roll slightly above average though, and instead of averaging 8 mortal wounds, you'll get 12 or even 16.

5500 pts
6500 pts
7000 pts
9000 pts
13.000 pts
 
   
Made in de
Regular Dakkanaut




 MinscS2 wrote:
mrtomski wrote:

I guess then the question is, is 3 mortal wounds in combat worth your WL trait?


The Flawless Host WL-trait is amazing. It's incredibly bursty/spiky though.

Roll poorly (i.e. not a single 5+ on 4 dice) and the damage output is severely hampered (4 mortal wounds on average still isn't bad.)
Roll slightly above average though, and instead of averaging 8 mortal wounds, you'll get 12 or even 16.


Hmm now I'm thinking about my prince. I'm guessing flawless host is going to make the craziest cc prince? I'd be interested to know what setups people are using.

I guess my only concern is relying on the +1 to hit is that I'd like to use that on plasma terminators or other shooting units.
   
Made in us
Haemonculi Flesh Apprentice






 MinscS2 wrote:
mrtomski wrote:

I guess then the question is, is 3 mortal wounds in combat worth your WL trait?


The Flawless Host WL-trait is amazing. It's incredibly bursty/spiky though.

Roll poorly (i.e. not a single 5+ on 4 dice) and the damage output is severely hampered (4 mortal wounds on average still isn't bad.)
Roll slightly above average though, and instead of averaging 8 mortal wounds, you'll get 12 or even 16.


You could do something similar to this with the black legion in the old book verse imperium. Chaos lord with first among traitors and prescience with the murder sword gets extra attacks on a 4+ but the best part is he doesn't need to be the one with the warlord trait, just in range, meaning he can be used without necessarily giving up STW. So you could use the field commander from a raptoral host and do it from the drop fairly reliably. Add in a demon shell and that should be more then enough. The Flawless host does pretty much guarantee the kill though but I don't like the idea of trading him away. I suppose you could use him as a deterrent though since he is so cheap. Even Abbadon would think twice about getting near that guy if he is murder marked by the sword.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
mrtomski wrote:
 MinscS2 wrote:
mrtomski wrote:

I guess then the question is, is 3 mortal wounds in combat worth your WL trait?


The Flawless Host WL-trait is amazing. It's incredibly bursty/spiky though.

Roll poorly (i.e. not a single 5+ on 4 dice) and the damage output is severely hampered (4 mortal wounds on average still isn't bad.)
Roll slightly above average though, and instead of averaging 8 mortal wounds, you'll get 12 or even 16.


Hmm now I'm thinking about my prince. I'm guessing flawless host is going to make the craziest cc prince? I'd be interested to know what setups people are using.

I guess my only concern is relying on the +1 to hit is that I'd like to use that on plasma terminators or other shooting units.


It's not something you cast on him every turn though.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/04/08 14:34:50


   
Made in sg
Longtime Dakkanaut





I am just not comfortable exposing my warlord to such danger. Because most likely he will be charging the biggest baddest stuff around with that kind of build. I am also not sure what else to use flawless host on. Host Raptorial? Their trait is meant for melee.
   
Made in se
Dakka Veteran





mrtomski wrote:

Hmm now I'm thinking about my prince. I'm guessing flawless host is going to make the craziest cc prince? I'd be interested to know what setups people are using.

I guess my only concern is relying on the +1 to hit is that I'd like to use that on plasma terminators or other shooting units.


I did the math earlier in this thread, and a Flawless Host "Blender Prince" with dual talons, intoxicating elixir (why not) and prescience averages 20 S8 AP2 D2 attacks against imperium and 17 against non-imperium.

And as Red Corsair stated, you don't have to give him Prescience all the time, just when he's about to charge something you want dead.

5500 pts
6500 pts
7000 pts
9000 pts
13.000 pts
 
   
Made in ch
The Dread Evil Lord Varlak





Eldenfirefly wrote:
I am just not comfortable exposing my warlord to such danger. Because most likely he will be charging the biggest baddest stuff around with that kind of build. I am also not sure what else to use flawless host on. Host Raptorial? Their trait is meant for melee.


Orkz do it all the time, why not take a page out of their book.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units."
Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?"
Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?"
GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!"
Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.  
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




When running a bare bones detachment of Red Corsairs CSM - competitive ITC - what is the best HQ choices? Warpsmith clocks in dirt cheap but is essentially vindicare fodder and adds nothing to most lists as can only repair 'Red Corsairs' vehcs - sorcerers can help the remainder of the army but have a similar problem with being instagibed - DP maybe but even with advance and charge seems a step down from a TSons DP where the points may be better spent. Chaos lord with jump pack and thunder hammers - also dies to vindicare spam?

At the moment i'm leaning towards the warpsmith even though it adds nothing to most comp lists aside from the CP farm.

I'm tempted to put a Chaingun on the CSM squads as it isn't terribly more expensive but realizing these will die instantly in 1 turn against a competent army looks like it makes it a waste of points.

P.S. status of Ahriman in the meta now? Was an auto-include in nearly every list before - and while he is not 'infantry' on a disc he still eats wounds on a 3+ and will die on average to one vindicare shot / refire (85 point unit instakilling 166 core unit is not ideal) - or does he go on foot / in a rhino now and dare the castellan to pop it?

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/04/08 15:41:53


 
   
Made in us
Pyro Pilot of a Triach Stalker





The Eternity Gate

Ahriman in an otherwise all demon list just won a decent tournament so I'd say still very competitive.

01001000 01100001 01101001 01101100 00100000 01101111 01110101 01110010 00100000 01001110 01100101 01100011 01110010 01101111 01101110 00100000 01101111 01110110 01100101 01110010 01101100 01101111 01110010 01100100 01110011 00100001  
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




 buddha wrote:
Ahriman in an otherwise all demon list just won a decent tournament so I'd say still very competitive.


Do you know which tournament / share additional details around the list? If this is adepticon - bear in mind assassinorum was not in play and ITC ruleset was not used I believe.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/04/08 15:59:22


 
   
Made in gb
Khorne Chosen Marine Riding a Juggernaut





UK

Since daemon engines are now a bit for viable with the new lord discordant and the new formation

anyone thought about maxing them out with a bit of nurgle daemons old epidemus can deal deal them out some serious buffs if you can get some unit killing momentum.

 
   
Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle





In My Lab

I like Epidemius, but an issue with him is that he's "Win More."

What I mean by that is that, chances are if you get tally real high, you'd've won without him anyway. If you can nom on some chaff units or something, you can get some nice bonuses, but I'm not sure he'd be fully competitive.

I've seen success in my local meta with him, but I run a more Daemon-heavy list (though I do include a Maulerfiend often) and honestly, my local meta ain't the most competitive.

Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! 
   
Made in us
Tough Tyrant Guard





I think I've just about optimized the Lord Discordant megameme.

You need:
Lord Discordant with Mecha-serpents relic
Dark Apostle with Soultearer Portent
Master of Possession with Cursed Earth & Infernal Power
Bloodmaster with Crimson Crown
Skull Altar
As many enemies to charge as possible.

Take that (4 horde units)
   
Made in gb
Khorne Chosen Marine Riding a Juggernaut





UK

How about run a Feculent Gnarlmaw tree.
Stick renegade commanders and command squads around it and hope they die to increase the tally? XD

Infact pay the pts for them and make them under strength units as per the rules. take loads of different cheap units like renegade cmd (know you can only take one of each type) one model strong.
you'll be up the tally in no time XD

deciple squad (under stength to 1 model) -> 30pts
command squad (under stength to 1 mdel) -> 24pts
maurader squad (under stength to 1 model) -> 30pts
brimstorne horrors (under stength to 1 model) -> 30pts

stick all 3 by the tree roll for all three each turn on a 4+ ye going up the tally lol



This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2019/04/08 16:40:46


 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Latro_ wrote:
How about run a Feculent Gnarlmaw tree.
Stick renegade commanders and command squads around it and hope they die to increase the tally? XD

Infact pay the pts for them and make them under strength units as per the rules. take loads of different cheap units like renegade cmd (know you can only take one of each type) one model strong.
you'll be up the tally in no time XD

deciple squad (under stength to 1 model) -> 30pts
command squad (under stength to 1 mdel) -> 24pts
maurader squad (under stength to 1 model) -> 30pts

stick all 3 by the tree roll for all three each turn on a 4+ ye going up the tally lol




Deliciously trolly, tho in latest matched play rules understrength take up an aux detachment each.

DFTT 
   
Made in gb
Khorne Chosen Marine Riding a Juggernaut





UK

dammit

was also thinking you can double this up with a cheap caster doing:
Nurgle’s Rot has a warp charge value of 7. If manifested, roll a D6 for every unit (excluding NURGLE units) within
7" of the psyker. On a 4+ the unit being rolled for suffers
D3 mortal wounds

XD


Was also thinking powerise on a lord discordant strick virulent blessing on him:
+1 to wound 7+ to wound causes double damage
stick VOTLW on him now ye triggering this on 5's
DA soultear its 4's

thats a potential 52 damage vs a vehicle

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/04/08 16:57:32


 
   
Made in fi
Raging-on-the-Inside Blood Angel Sergeant





orkswubwub wrote:
When running a bare bones detachment of Red Corsairs CSM - competitive ITC - what is the best HQ choices?

.............

I'm tempted to put a Chaingun on the CSM squads as it isn't terribly more expensive but realizing these will die instantly in 1 turn against a competent army looks like it makes it a waste of points.


I think that if you are going red corsairs for CP, I would squeeze Huron in there and maybe even make him warlord for extra CP. 105p chaos lord with psychic power and can cast smite aswell after prescience or some such.

At 1k RCC's have been good with csm too, but now playing 1,5k game, swapped them to AC for longer range and price. Although I play full RC so my 3rd csm unit is a bigger blob which still has a single RCC along with plasmas to enter hopefully enemy territory with the there's more where they came from strat.. If your enemy is shooting your csm, it's less heat off from your 4x RCC and 4x LC havocs..

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/04/08 17:09:29


 
   
Made in gb
Pulsating Possessed Chaos Marine






orkswubwub wrote:
 buddha wrote:
Ahriman in an otherwise all demon list just won a decent tournament so I'd say still very competitive.


Do you know which tournament / share additional details around the list? If this is adepticon - bear in mind assassinorum was not in play and ITC ruleset was not used I believe.


He was used in the list that won at Adeptacon a week ago.

Snipers really aren't that scary. If your opponent is rocking 3 vindicare just hide him behind a wall and cast buffing spells that game. He then wasted his shots on daemon princes and the like.

9/10 games snipers aren't a worry.
   
Made in us
Powerful Ushbati





United States

 small_gods wrote:
orkswubwub wrote:
 buddha wrote:
Ahriman in an otherwise all demon list just won a decent tournament so I'd say still very competitive.


Do you know which tournament / share additional details around the list? If this is adepticon - bear in mind assassinorum was not in play and ITC ruleset was not used I believe.


He was used in the list that won at Adeptacon a week ago.

Snipers really aren't that scary. If your opponent is rocking 3 vindicare just hide him behind a wall and cast buffing spells that game. He then wasted his shots on daemon princes and the like.

9/10 games snipers aren't a worry.


The new Primaris ones beg to differ, especially with their ignore LoS. I lost three characters to them over two tunrs this past weekend.
   
Made in ro
Rampaging Khorne Dreadnought






Huh, could this work? Think of it as a sort of 40k moritat.

Jump pack Black legion lord with black clad brute: 4+ on a charge to deal d3 mortal wounds.(and extra strength but who cares)
Chiropteran Wings: 4+ in the movement and charge phase when moving over stuff, d3 mortal wounds.
Pistol for daemon shells, d3 mortal wounds

Maybe add a thunderhammer for good measure, or a plasma pistol for obvious reasons

Manoevring in such a way that you can actually shoot the character might be luck, but charging/ flying past it should be much more manageable.
That alone could generate 3d3 MW, which would be an average of 6 wounds with no saves regardless of toughness.
Enough to kill most characters in a very cheap package. And you can fall back +charge again for another 2d3 MW due to the BL stratagem, though I doubt that need would come up.
And it doesn't rely on other characters being around.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/04/08 22:11:07


 
   
Made in us
Morphing Obliterator




The Void

So I just realized that since the Noctilith Crown applies to all Chaos, it can give a 5++ to Renegade Russes or even a baneblade (although they'd be hard to fit wholly within). You could do a Crown + Renegades battalion + CSM battalion and do some nice Iron Warriors or something. Normally Renegade Russes aren't worth it because they can't get the traits and buffs that Guard can. But 5++ gives them a solid edge on durability.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/04/08 22:32:45


Always 1 on the crazed roll. 
   
Made in gb
Pulsating Possessed Chaos Marine






 Togusa wrote:
 small_gods wrote:
orkswubwub wrote:
 buddha wrote:
Ahriman in an otherwise all demon list just won a decent tournament so I'd say still very competitive.


Do you know which tournament / share additional details around the list? If this is adepticon - bear in mind assassinorum was not in play and ITC ruleset was not used I believe.


He was used in the list that won at Adeptacon a week ago.

Snipers really aren't that scary. If your opponent is rocking 3 vindicare just hide him behind a wall and cast buffing spells that game. He then wasted his shots on daemon princes and the like.

9/10 games snipers aren't a worry.


The new Primaris ones beg to differ, especially with their ignore LoS. I lost three characters to them over two tunrs this past weekend.


How many were they running?? They're heavy 1 4str -1ap 1 dmg. That's 24 shots to down Ahriman on adverage.
   
Made in us
Pulsating Possessed Space Marine of Slaanesh





Anyone else feel that sonic blasters should go down to 1/2pts from 4pts ? They felt fine before the bolter drill, but now they just feel awfully over costed.
   
 
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