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Guys, I'm just starting BL with the new stuff and just purchased a codex and the new Termis.

Gotta ask if a plasma Termi squad and a CL in Terminator armor could be a thing, eventhough it's quite pricey.

I really don't know what to achieve with a combi-bolter squad instead, it's firepower seems somehow neglectable.

Plas termites are nice, but you'll need to get some more chainaxes for budget build.
Termi lord is questionable, but you really want one if you go plasma heavy.

Plasma Termies with CL is viable. I prefer the CL to have a jump pack over TDA, though - makes it more likely you’ll get to use his formidable melee capability in turns after deep strike arrival. Though the Termie Lord does have access to a special Warlord Trait, which could be good if you intend to build a significant Terminator force.

If you’re not put off by the old sculpts (I personally still love them, especially when mixed up with a box of HH Mk 4), a box of Berzerkers will give you all the Chainaxes you need to make them cheap, and three plasma pistols to adapt the combi-weapons.

As for the leftovers, I’ve found that a Berzerker kitbashed to hold two bolters with a sheathed sword and generic helmet makes a good-looking Chosen with combi-bolter & chainsword, which is a nicely priced horde shooter.

Am i right in thinking that a MoP can use sacrifice on a LoDoH, choose the LoDoH to get 1 MW, then the MoP chooses the same LoDoH as the target for healing and he gets 3 wounds back, because he is both a DAEMON ENGINE and a WARPSMITH ?

I just checked, they're only 2 axes in the kit. That's pretty bad since the codex states that axes are the default weaponary.

Thanks for the tip, I will probably get the Berserker kit.

Wyswyg is just insane...even more though I totally fall for it.


Do we actually know if something else is coming for this release? Since possessed look super outdated and you can not play the new oblits in competetive size without purchasing 2 shadowspear boxes.

 p5freak wrote:
Am i right in thinking that a MoP can use sacrifice on a LoDoH, choose the LoDoH to get 1 MW, then the MoP chooses the same LoDoH as the target for healing and he gets 3 wounds back, because he is both a DAEMON ENGINE and a WARPSMITH ?

Until such time as an FAQ amends this, yes.

If one has cast Delightful Agonies on him, it may even become a full three wounds of healing

JohnnyRotten wrote:
I just checked, they're only 2 axes in the kit. That's pretty bad since the codex states that axes are the default weaponary.

Thanks for the tip, I will probably get the Berserker kit.

Wyswyg is just insane...even more though I totally fall for it.


Do we actually know if something else is coming for this release? Since possessed look super outdated and you can not play the new oblits in competetive size without purchasing 2 shadowspear boxes.

I would wet myself if they brought out new Possessed in the style of the GP. Though knowing GW, and how they’ve shafted us on the havoc and terminator boxes, they’d only have one claw in the box. You’d need 9 boxes to make a unit that’s wysiwyg.

If you're doing plasma terminator drop with black legion you don't actually need the lord to babysit over charged plasma. You can use the BL strat to reroll 1s

I heard somewhere that Chaos Sorcerers can take Jump Packs in the new codex (as in, they don't need to use the Index rules for that anymore).

Is that true?

 vipoid wrote:
I heard somewhere that Chaos Sorcerers can take Jump Packs in the new codex (as in, they don't need to use the Index rules for that anymore).

Is that true?

That's not new, the old codex already allowed that. Might you be thinking of taking a Disc of Tzeentch? You still need to fall back on the index (or Thousand Sons codex) for that.

With the Bolter relic weapons, the worth of the Terminator Lord did go up. However, a Bike will likely give you more mileage.

How about chainlord on juggernaut of khorne near something holding crimson crown

 lindsay40k wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
Am i right in thinking that a MoP can use sacrifice on a LoDoH, choose the LoDoH to get 1 MW, then the MoP chooses the same LoDoH as the target for healing and he gets 3 wounds back, because he is both a DAEMON ENGINE and a WARPSMITH ?

Until such time as an FAQ amends this, yes.

If one has cast Delightful Agonies on him, it may even become a full three wounds of healing

Remember he auto heals `1 on his own, so it should be 3 anyway, so if you did have delightful agonies up it is possible he jumps 4 wounds and is still viable to repair with another WS for a further D3 It's why the black legion WLT to halve damage has my eye. It sounds like a funny idea to make a super durable one of these fellas. Realistically you would be better off spending the other characters points on a second or third LDoH though.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Nature's Minister wrote:
How about chainlord on juggernaut of khorne near something holding crimson crown

It's OK, Jugger lords still suck over all IMHO though. They don't get a trait still, are not very fast and lack fly which is the most crucial flaw, meaning even if you somehow did manage to get one to be an efficient blender, he gets wrecked by chaf screens and walls. Thats always been his biggest problem IMO, he just struggles to get to the things he wants to hit in time to matter. I suppose you could bully mid field a bit, but that is a sad way to use a jugger lord The Lord Discordant was the replacement for biker and cavalry lords more or less.

Going over the math, the other relics don't really compare much to Ghorisvex's Teeth.
The murder sword pulls ahead in some cases but not by much and the theeth don't care bout what you are attacking.
The thunderhammer comes close against targets with no invuln but falls behind dramatically when considering a 3++. Against the teeth, having an invulnerable still helps but whatever is being targeted is most likely still going to die and then some.
Having the extra strength on weapon doesn't make much of a difference either when assuming VotLW and a DA. I guess you could keep a deathhex handy to counter that though, would also be nice for other legions.

A lord discordant does similar damage but can be shot out from a crowd. On the flipside, they need less support to get into melee in the first place.
The only thing that has the potential to hit even harder is the master of executions since he has essentially the same weapon as the teeth, minus the extra attacks but it allows him to take a different relic and he could end up with 3 damage which gets pretty ridiculous.
On top of that he is not locked behind the black legion, so a flawless host executioner is an absolute blender.

That said I haven't accounted for the crimson crown yet, which only the BL lord can benefit from via juggerlord (assuming teeth).
Then again, that has its own drawbacks.

Hi Guys, not sure if this has already been addressed but what are our best ways and units to quickly kill / cripple a knight?

Buffed up obliterators cann kill a knight in one round with good rolls

Havocs? 4 lascanon.. Maybe 2 units of them and a lord for the reroll. Add a sorcerer and cast persistence on them for +1 to hit.

Nature's Minister wrote:
How about chainlord on juggernaut of khorne near something holding crimson crown

It has its ups and downs. He gets additional attacks from his mount, loses VotlW, can be healed by a MoP with sacrifice, and he can get a 3+ inv from the MoPs cursed earth psychic power.

 p5freak wrote:

Nature's Minister wrote:
How about chainlord on juggernaut of khorne near something holding crimson crown

It has its ups and downs. He gets additional attacks from his mount, loses VotlW, can be healed by a MoP with sacrifice, and he can get a 3+ inv from the MoPs cursed earth psychic power.

Can't be put in a transport either, and he's not a rocket at an 8 inch move.
You also lose fury of khorne and a bunch of other stratgems.

As I said, I really am not a fan of him mostly because he can be avoided too easily. I'd rather use an expendable lord with jump pack.

Snugiraffe wrote:

 vipoid wrote:
I heard somewhere that Chaos Sorcerers can take Jump Packs in the new codex (as in, they don't need to use the Index rules for that anymore).

Is that true?

That's not new, the old codex already allowed that. Might you be thinking of taking a Disc of Tzeentch? You still need to fall back on the index (or Thousand Sons codex) for that.

Really? I could have sworn that Jump Packs had become Index-only in the last codex.

Oh well, thanks for answering.

Nope, you could always take the jump pack. Demonic Cavalry and Bikes were removed.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Red corsair chaos lords all on bikes with thunder hammers might be worth looking at. Auto advancing 6" means they would move 20" before assaulting. Could be great for disruption.

 Roknar wrote:

 p5freak wrote:

Nature's Minister wrote:
How about chainlord on juggernaut of khorne near something holding crimson crown

It has its ups and downs. He gets additional attacks from his mount, loses VotlW, can be healed by a MoP with sacrifice, and he can get a 3+ inv from the MoPs cursed earth psychic power.

Can't be put in a transport either, and he's not a rocket at an 8 inch move.
You also lose fury of khorne and a bunch of other stratgems.

For really no good reason either. Why Calvary wasn't fixed I have no idea.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Roknar wrote:

 p5freak wrote:

Nature's Minister wrote:
How about chainlord on juggernaut of khorne near something holding crimson crown

It has its ups and downs. He gets additional attacks from his mount, loses VotlW, can be healed by a MoP with sacrifice, and he can get a 3+ inv from the MoPs cursed earth psychic power.

Can't be put in a transport either, and he's not a rocket at an 8 inch move.
You also lose fury of khorne and a bunch of other stratgems.

For really no good reason either. Why Calvary wasn't fixed I have no idea.

Gw, we can regard ourselves as lucky that we get a balance Patch all 6 months so to speak but also pay for that.

why play a juggerlord when you can play a jump pack lord with thunder hammer+relic chainsword, leave him unmarked and use the stratagem gives him all the marks, so you can give him (if you want invest points in sorcerer) +1 inv and/or 5+++ FNP, diabolic strengt and make him attack again with Korne stratagem, with votlw, a blender for 114pts

 Roknar wrote:

 p5freak wrote:

Nature's Minister wrote:
How about chainlord on juggernaut of khorne near something holding crimson crown

It has its ups and downs. He gets additional attacks from his mount, loses VotlW, can be healed by a MoP with sacrifice, and he can get a 3+ inv from the MoPs cursed earth psychic power.

Can't be put in a transport either, and he's not a rocket at an 8 inch move.
You also lose fury of khorne and a bunch of other stratgems.

Crimson crown is a daemon relic. You can't exactly have a chaos lord on juggernaut with that.The closest to that would be a khorne herald on a juggernaut. I think they are called slaughtermaster or something like that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
It occurs to me that if we run three sorcerors of Nurgle, Tzeentch and Slanaash, we can buff three squads of terminators as follows:

Squad 1 of 10 terminators. Nurgle - DA use -1 to hit prayer, Nurgle soreror cast miasma of pestilence. so -2 to hit in combat.

Squad 2 of 10 terminators. Tzeentch. Sorceror cast weaver of fates. for a +1++, Squad becomes 4++ invul save.

Squad 3 of 10 terminators. Slanaash sorceror cast delightful agonies. Terminator squad now has 5+ FNP.

So, you can have 30 very difficult to kill terminators on the field at the same time. lAlly in death guard and throw in another 10 blightlords... lol. Then have Abby make every single model fearless.

Eldenfirefly wrote:

 Roknar wrote:

 p5freak wrote:

Nature's Minister wrote:
How about chainlord on juggernaut of khorne near something holding crimson crown

It has its ups and downs. He gets additional attacks from his mount, loses VotlW, can be healed by a MoP with sacrifice, and he can get a 3+ inv from the MoPs cursed earth psychic power.

Can't be put in a transport either, and he's not a rocket at an 8 inch move.
You also lose fury of khorne and a bunch of other stratgems.

Crimson crown is a daemon relic. You can't exactly have a chaos lord on juggernaut with that.The closest to that would be a khorne herald on a juggernaut. I think they are called slaughtermaster or something like that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
It occurs to me that if we run three sorcerors of Nurgle, Tzeentch and Slanaash, we can buff three squads of terminators as follows:

Squad 1 of 10 terminators. Nurgle - DA use -1 to hit prayer, Nurgle soreror cast miasma of pestilence. so -2 to hit in combat.

Squad 2 of 10 terminators. Tzeentch. Sorceror cast weaver of fates. for a +1++, Squad becomes 4++ invul save.

Squad 3 of 10 terminators. Slanaash sorceror cast delightful agonies. Terminator squad now has 5+ FNP.

So, you can have 30 very difficult to kill terminators on the field at the same time. lAlly in death guard and throw in another 10 blightlords... lol. Then have Abby make every single model fearless.

We can have a juggernaut via the chaos index. It makes the lord a daemon and gives you some extra attacks and movement.
The bad part is that it also removes infantry and turns it into cavalry which really messes with the main codex strats because GW doesn't consider them a thing and we have no other cavalry in the dex.
They're like sisters in that they still exist but are completely unsupported.

At least if you take a palanquin, you can still benefit from the nurgle pychic power to replace votlw, but it means having yet another character as support.
You're not getting into melee anytime soon mind you.

Given that they exist only in the index, I don't see GW touching them at all. Worse, if they re-introduce them via EC / WE we would loose them completely, not that they will but yea.

So one thing I was thinking about it taking a rhino and packing with a couple of nasty combat characters and beserkers.

One character I like the look of is a exalted champion with the murder sword.

With world eaters he has 5 attacks on the charge hitting on 2s, so a good chance to kill a 5 wound character without breaking a sweat, all in a nice cheap model which can support the beserkers.

I see a lot of debate about the black legion lord 2 mortal wound on a 6+ setup, but what worries me about that is the investment in CP and warlord..

mrtomski wrote:
So one thing I was thinking about it taking a rhino and packing with a couple of nasty combat characters and beserkers.

One character I like the look of is a exalted champion with the murder sword.

With world eaters he has 5 attacks on the charge hitting on 2s, so a good chance to kill a 5 wound character without breaking a sweat, all in a nice cheap model which can support the beserkers.

I see a lot of debate about the black legion lord 2 mortal wound on a 6+ setup, but what worries me about that is the investment in CP and warlord..

I personally would pick the greater possed due to the better ammount of attacks and price over him but preference.

Not Online!!! wrote:

mrtomski wrote:
So one thing I was thinking about it taking a rhino and packing with a couple of nasty combat characters and beserkers.

One character I like the look of is a exalted champion with the murder sword.

With world eaters he has 5 attacks on the charge hitting on 2s, so a good chance to kill a 5 wound character without breaking a sweat, all in a nice cheap model which can support the beserkers.

I see a lot of debate about the black legion lord 2 mortal wound on a 6+ setup, but what worries me about that is the investment in CP and warlord..

I personally would pick the greater possed due to the better ammount of attacks and price over him but preference.

Can we put a greater possessed in a rhino? And how many places does he occupy?