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I was reading through the new codex and a few little oddities popped out at me. I know that to some people these things will pretty much be "no duh" but I thought a few people out there might be interested.

 

1) The Chaos Landraider has no Power of the Machine Spirit (or any kind of "infernal device" substitute rule). Of course it is 30 points cheaper than its Imperial counterpart so it makes sense.

 

2) The Chaos Landraider has no 'always counts as a scoring unit rule' (that I could find) so it appears that taking one as a dedicated transport for Chaos Termies is (tactically speaking) completely out of the question even if you wanted to.

 

3) Chaos Terminators need to stand still to fire their combi-bolters at maximum range (24 inches).

This last one really threw me for a loop as after the last codex was released they put out a (3rd edition) FAQ which stated that Terminators counted as stationary when firing rapid fire weapons along with heavy weapons. I had always assumed that this was the defacto GW stance. I figured that GW had simply forgotten to include that rule with all the loyalist codices released since then (Deamonhunters, Space Marines, Black Templars, Dark Angels & Blood Angels) simply because loyalists don't use rapid fire weapons while in terminator armor unless they are carrying a combi-weapon.

I had always felt that when the next Chaos codex rolled out we would certainly see that rule included as their primary armament is a rapid fire weapon and from a fluff perspective it wouldn't make sense if the armor allows its user to move and fire a heavy weapon but not a lighter rapid-fire weapon.

But the rule is pretty darn clear in the Chaos codex. Terminators can Assault after shooting with their rapid fire weapons but there just isn't any mention of them counting as stationary when firing rapid fire weapons:

"Models in Terminator armour are capable of moving and firing with heavy weapons and may assault after firing rapid fire and heavy weapons."

Now, this is essentially the same wording from the DA codex so true conspiracy theorists can hold out some hope that is a mistake, but I personally cannot believe that GW would be so specific with their wording on this rule and really intend for Terminators to be able to fire their rapid fire weapons at max range while on the move.

 

 

One that I came across, that seems to be a side-effect of GW's new 'spread-the-rules--all-through-the-book' codex design: Typhus counts as having Blight Grenades, which do absolutely nothing for him. Blight Grenades have an effect that applies specifically to units of Plague Marines only.

I've noticed that the psychic rules for Ahriman are kinda weird...

He can by his special rules "make upto three psychic tests in the same turn)

But since he also has the mark of tzeentch... "the only expection tho this is a model with the mark of Tzeentch, which can attempt upto two psychic powers per player turn yadda yadda..."

So can he use 3 powers in the chaos players turn and then 2 in the opponent's turn? *granted these would just be limited to warptime and a force weapon test. Or just 3 per turn.... or?

Per the rulebook FAQ anytime they use the general term "turn" they are refering to "player turn", so Ahriman can essentially use 3 powers per player turn (although only 'Warptime' and his force weapon can even be used in an opponent's turn).

I too found it odd that they used the term "make up to 3 psychic tests in the same turn" instead of "3 psychic powers per turn" but I think they did so just to be clear that he could use his force weapon. . .of course they then added a note about using his force weapon right after that in parenthesis so they really didn't need to bother (if that was the reason they wrote it like that).

Posted By yakface on 09/24/2007 8:22 PM

Per the rulebook FAQ anytime they use the general term "turn" they are refering to "player turn", so Ahriman can essentially use 3 powers per player turn (although only 'Warptime' and his force weapon can even be used in an opponent's turn).

Ahhhh ok thank you. I keep forgetting the core rule book faq.

so can you use 3 three of the same power in one turn then?

Posted By yakface on 09/24/2007 8:22 PM

Per the rulebook FAQ anytime they use the general term "turn" they are refering to "player turn", so Ahriman can essentially use 3 powers per player turn (although only 'Warptime' and his force weapon can even be used in an opponent's turn).

I'm glad I woke up today, so I could read this, because I've always been confused about Force Weapons and Librarians in general in your opponents turn.

Personally I think GW just has really *gak*ty editors.

A rapid fire weapon such as a combi bolter can shoot once at 24" with reroll or twice at 12" with reroll. Just because they shoot once at 24" does not mean it is no longer a rapid fire weapon. Really this could simply be a misunderstanding on your part. You cannot GW to rephrase everything just to keep Dakka Dakka faithful happy.

- G

That's stationary, what about if they moved? I think Yak is saying to rules done specify if they are covered, but it makes sense that they would be.

Ooooooh snap! Thanks for pointing out the nonscoringness of dedicated raiders (I was going to do just that, take one as a termi transport so I could free a heavy slot), and that terminators can assault after rapid fire. That came up in a game last Friday, when I just didn't shoot my bolters before charging because I was sure I couldn't do that anymore ...

- Salvage

Okay I see what you are saying. I think it is an oversight but we will just have to live with it. It's not that big a deal really.

- G

Posted By Green Bloater on 09/25/2007 7:09 AM
Okay I see what you are saying. I think it is an oversight but we will just have to live with it. It's not that big a deal really.

- G

I agree. I don't think it makes Chaos Termies useless, it's just a little odd by the fluff.

 

Look at the description of Wings vs. Jump Packs.

Jump packs specifically state that any model using them is classified as "Jump Infantry", however Wings makes no such statement.

When you purchase the upgrade for Lords or Sorcerers, it says "May purchase Jump Pack/Wings for X points".

I've already got an instance of someone modeling up a sorcerer with Wings that moves as Jump Infantry but is not "classified as Jump Infantry" and can thus start on the table in escalation games.

Personally it looks like an oversight because the only thing that can take a "Wings" upgrade that is only mentioned as "Wings" instead of "Jump Pack/Wings" is the Demon Prince, who automatically starts off the table and would still be classed as a MC even if he had Wings (which is why it seems that the Wings wargear description doesn't change your classification to Jump infantry).

Really dumb ass oversight.

Wow, what a wonderful bunch of rules holes.

 

Not sure these are "holes", just things I've noticed...

1)  Sorcerors aren't fearless, and seem to be the only independent characters who aren't.

2) Chaos Terminator Armour doesn't add +1 attack like the old ones or the Imperial counterparts.  This coupled with the loss of master-crafting and spikey bits means chaos leaders are hands-down out-classed in assault by their Imperial counterparts who will usually have more attacks and more rerolls to hit, as well as often furious charge.  Lucius the Eternal has a whopping FOUR attacks.  What a jip.

3) Tzeentch bikers turbo-boosting will have a 2+ invulnerable save - as when turboboosting they have a 3+ invulnerable save already, it will add 1 making it 2+. 

4) Dreadnoughts unable for one reason or another to perform fire frenzy or blood rage now become sane instead of counting as the opposite result.

1. Yeah I noticed the sorcerer thing too. I guess that they figured they are all going to be fearless via mark of slaanesh?

2. Yeah, that kind of hurts, no MC and no Spiky bits. Our termies do have 2 attacks base, it just sucks that a lord not in terminator armor get more attacks than one in. Lucius isn't so terrible since every armor save he makes effectively gives him an extra hit with his power weapon.

3. so it seems to me as well. guess that is the one saving grace making bikes seem worth taking

4. yeah, just sucks that they are more likely to shoot your units than your opponents, especially early in the game.

Posted By Neophryte on 09/26/2007 12:54 PM
1. Yeah I noticed the sorcerer thing too. I guess that they figured they are all going to be fearless via mark of slaanesh?

 

Except that the mark of Slaanesh doesn't grant fearlessness - just +1 initiative.  Too bad eh?  None of the marks grant fearlessness.  It's impossible to have fearless chosen or terminators - our best troops are capable of easily running from the field and thanks to the naturally small squad sizes will be incapable of regrouping.  Joy of joys.

Plasma guns and heavy bolters are more expensive than Imperial versions - no master crafting - champions pay the same price for weapons as ICs - we need 10 CSMs to take a heavy weapon but marines don't, and 10 terminators for 2 heavies but marines don't.

Chaos bikers no longer get bike-mounted weapon upgrades.  They are now EXACTLY marine bikers + mark.

This codex makes me sick.

-Spellbound

Sounds like Codex:Space Marines Get the Nerf Too (aka SM Redux) can't come soon enough to justify the power downgrade in the Chaos codex.

That said, I finally beat stealer shock + zilla nids for the first time with my CSM, and it was using the new codex

- Salvage

Posted By Spellbound on 09/26/2007 12:49 PM

 

3) Tzeentch bikers turbo-boosting will have a 2+ invulnerable save - as when turboboosting they have a 3+ invulnerable save already, it will add 1 making it 2+. 

Debateable. The +1 to Invulnerable saves is applied to an invul save that the model has normally. Bikes do not normally have an invul, so whether or not the +1 applies is up in the air.

I seem to remember reading that Gav said the Tzneetch bikers do indeed get 2+ INV save when turbo boosting. Turbo boosting is normal enough so I don't buy what you are trying to sell.

- G

Bikes that turbo boost normally have an invulnerable save.

Tzeench biker thing is interesting, it depends on how a model's saves are recorded. Turbo-boost says ''...and the model's normal save becomes invulnerable'' , Mark of T rules says you get +1 to your invuln save to a minimum of 2+, if given to a model that does not normally have an invuln, you get the 5+.

If all models have a column for their regular armor save and a column for their invuln save in their stat lines, then when they turbo boost they have 2 invuln saves, the tzeentch 5+ and the 'boost 3+, since the 3+ is better you would use it. This makes the most since to me but there is of course the other option, where the models normal save becomes invulnerable, and then gets +1 added to it. Of course the rulebook doesn't define if the armor save is applied at unit creation or is dynamic, and it doesnt define the word 'normal' so for all we know Normal means any time the model is crushed underfoot.

Mark of Tzeentch and bikes turbo-boosting

I am currently confused how a Psychic Hood works against Ahriman. The Hood does state that "if the Hood passes, that power cannot be used for the rest of the turn". I interpret this as, if Ahriman was attempting a Bolt of Change for the first time & failed due to the Hood, he could no longer use Bolt of Change anymore that turn (thusly cancelling the other 2 attempts at it automatically).

Not sure if this is the case, but seeing 1 piece of wargear potentially nullify 1 full power (possibly 2), is kind of upsetting. Also, can the Hood be used when a Force Weapon is activated? If Ahriman tried to use his Force Weapon & failed from the Hood, would it totally cancel any other Force Weapon activations that whole turn?

*confused*

This is not a rules oddity, but in the Diagrams of the different heavy weapons, in the wargear section, there is the diagram for a man-portable plasma cannon, and a man-portable multi-melta - of course, neither is actually an option in the Codex, unless you use a loyalist marines list for your chaos marines...

When a Greater Daemon possesses a Asp Champ; it doesn't separate from a unit; so a 20 man squad can contain a 'hidden' Greater Daemon

I don't know about that, pretty sure it'd run into problems with how monstrous creatures work ...

- Salvage

Similar to the issue with Typhus and his Blight Grenades, Lucious the Eternal's special counter attack rule only applies when he makes a successful power armor or invulnerable save, yet he is not listed as having power armor in his equipment.

Does Typhus's  manreaper count as a nurgle deamon weapon that is also a force weapon?

Posted By davidson on 10/04/2007 6:41 PM
Does Typhus's  manreaper count as a nurgle deamon weapon that is also a force weapon?

It counts as a normal daemon weapon and a force weapon, and the force  weapon ability can be used even if typhus used psychic powers.

Posted By Teh_K42 on 10/04/2007 10:15 PM

Posted By davidson on 10/04/2007 6:41 PM
Does Typhus's  manreaper count as a nurgle deamon weapon that is also a force weapon?

It counts as a normal daemon weapon and a force weapon, and the force  weapon ability can be used even if typhus used psychic powers.

Since it counts as a normal daemon weapon, and he has the mark of nurgle it counts as the nurgle daemon weapon and always wounds on a 4+ plus it's a force weapon?