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Yes, for all extents and purposes you treat it as a deamon weapon. He does have the Mark of Nurgle, so you are always wounding on a 4+. And wound you cause can be resolved like a force weapon.

If you are fielding a Nurgle force, there is no reason not to take him.

Except for being a slow, expensive terminator I'd warrant




- Salvage

A Chaos Rhino can do a driveby shooting... there is no limitation on the number of models that can shoot out of the top... possibly one way of making Rhinos worthwhile; full of Thousand Son Rubrics; its a AV11 Tank that pumps out 19 S4 AP3 Shots; whack Ahriman in there and watch every heavy weapon target a Rhino

I can't wait to whip out this tidbit of information in my local gaming group - they have really been sticking it to me lately with such technicalities like how the DA thunderhammer still has the "at the end of the next assault phase" caveat that can keep a target from attacking indefinitely and that their bikers, since it doesn't specifically say their plasmaguns are NOT mounted on their bikes, can rapid-fire them and assault.

This will be a nice surprise.  Mmmmm 10 noisemarines with sonic blasters making the deadliest pillbox in history, or better yet 8 with a blastmaster and a sorceror with the lash - damage the enemy heavily, cause pinning with the blastmaster and lash a different unit to prevent immediate support.  Glee!

-Spellbound

Posted By Spellbound on 10/10/2007 12:56 PM that their bikers, since it doesn't specifically say their plasmaguns are NOT mounted on their bikes, can rapid-fire them and assault.

Actually, it would have to specifically say that the plasma guns are mounted on the bike to gain the benefit of them being mounted.

But mounted only matters if you can fire them to maximum range...Bikes can assault after firing anything (Including non-mounted rapid-fire weapons).

Oh!  I read that wrong I guess.

Well then!  I may be using more bikers in the future!  That was mostly what was keeping me from doing so.

-Spellbound

Posted By Spellbound on 10/10/2007 12:56 PM

...or better yet 8 with a blastmaster and a sorceror with the lash - damage the enemy heavily, cause pinning with the blastmaster and lash a different unit to prevent immediate support.  Glee!

-Spellbound

No lashing a "different" unit!  Lash would have to target the same unit that the rest of the sorceror's unit lashed.

Debatable.  Psychic powers follow all shooting rules unless otherwise stated - Lash of Submission says "pick any target visible and within 24"".  To me, that's specifically stating he's free to target whatever he likes provided he can see it and it's within range.

-Spellbound

Posted By Spellbound on 10/11/2007 10:17 AM

Debatable.  Psychic powers follow all shooting rules unless otherwise stated - Lash of Submission says "pick any target visible and within 24"".  To me, that's specifically stating he's free to target whatever he likes provided he can see it and it's within range.

-Spellbound

I have to agree with Spellbound on this one.  Any target visible means any target...so long as you can see it and its within 24" (which would also mean that you get to premeasure).

Posted By Spellbound on 10/11/2007 10:17 AM
To me, that's specifically stating he's free to target whatever he likes provided he can see it and it's within range.

He is, sure.

The unit he is with, though, would still be bound by the rule requiring the entire unit to target the same enemy unit.

Posted By insaniak on 10/11/2007 4:25 PM
He is, sure.

The unit he is with, though, would still be bound by the rule requiring the entire unit to target the same enemy unit.

It depends on the order you do it in, then.  If you use his psychic power first, then the unit must fire at what he targetted.  The other way, he can choose what he wants.

And order DOES matter in the shooting phase.  If you use wind of chaos at a densely packed part of a squad and hit 7 guys, wounding 5, then finish off the squad with inferno bolters, this is quite different to heavily damaging the squad with inferno bolters and then leaving only 1 guy in range of wind of chaos - no, you can't pretend the other 6 guys are still there and cause wounds as if they were.  Likewise if you fire your pistols at my unit that has some models within 12" and I remove them all, then when you go to fire your plasmaguns you're only getting 1 shot each.  Them's the breaks.

Initial shots from a unit CAN affect how the shooting for the rest of the unit works, and this is just another example.

-Spellbound

Posted By Spellbound on 10/11/2007 7:46 PM
It depends on the order you do it in, then.

No it doesn't. All shooting from one unit is simultaneous.

True, just because a unit has multiple types of weapons does not mean they fire in a different order. You may however, (if you do not have different colored dice), roll for the different weapons separetely, but all models in that unit (including IC's) still fire at the same time, then enemy models are removed.

In most cases it doesnt really matter because you can choose wich weapon to fire first...you will always pick the flamer template first to get the maximum amount of hits.. But the basic rulebook FAQ state that you cannot remove a model to prevent weapons to get within range..for example: a unit shoots/hits/wounds with a lascannon and a meltagun. only one model is within 12 inch. its not allowed to remove this model with the lascannon shot and claim that the meltagun cannot wound anymore..

News to me.  I should probably get a printout of that.  Loooooots of people here will remove forward models to prevent shorter-ranged weapons from firing, and fire bolters before plasma when an enemy unit is like 2-3 models strong so that the shots wipe them out and they don't need to risk firing plasma - in situations like that where I roll for the bolters first [because I don't have different colored dice] shooting doesn't finish when the enemy is dead?  I have to roll for my plasma shots for the sole purpose of seeing if I die or not?  Seems odd, since if a plasma weapon is found to be out of range the shots aren't rolled, they're just assumed to automatically miss with no further effect.

 

On a different note, in the apocalypse battle report a couple lords turned up with their terminator "retinues" [their words], teleporting together.  Correct me if I'm wrong but since there's now no such thing as a retinue, does not a chaos lord and a terminator squad roll separately, and have to make separate deepstrike rolls [provided no icons are around of course]?

-Spellbound

Posted By Spellbound on 10/12/2007 7:06 AM
Correct me if I'm wrong but since there's now no such thing as a retinue, does not a chaos lord and a terminator squad roll separately, and have to make separate deepstrike rolls [provided no icons are around of course]?

As per the rulebook FAQ, they would have to make seperate Reserves rolls, but could Deep Strike together provided that they both become available on the same turn.

That's under normal 40K rules, anyway. No idea if Apocalypse adds any new rules that would be applicable in that battle report.

When shooting, all "to hit" rolls with all firing weapons are made before resolving any wounds. Otherwise, the shooting of the unit ends as the first "to wound" roll is made. If you roll fior any wounds before you have fired your plkasma weapons, then you forfeit nthe right to fire them at all this turn even if models are still standing in the target unit.

Poor old Typhus didn't get a mention in the contents page

I wonder if berzerkers still get the 4+ minimum thing because on pg 46 in the core rulebook under heavy ccw's it stil llists chainaxe as a heavy like the choppa (which I hear will get nerfed too). btw, is it true that the chainaxe is now rending?

Posted By chinamanjohn on 10/14/2007 3:55 PM
I wonder if berzerkers still get the 4+ minimum thing because on pg 46 in the core rulebook under heavy ccw's it stil llists chainaxe as a heavy like the choppa (which I hear will get nerfed too). btw, is it true that the chainaxe is now rending?

Nope. There is no such thing as a chainaxe anymore in the Chaos codex.

Bezerkers simply have regular 'ole close combat weapons in their army list entry.

 

Posted By Mahu on 10/05/2007 4:42 AM
Yes, for all extents and purposes you treat it as a deamon weapon. He does have the Mark of Nurgle, so you are always wounding on a 4+. And wound you cause can be resolved like a force weapon.

If you are fielding a Nurgle force, there is no reason not to take him.

I have to disagree. Typhus (and all the other special characters) are not defined as a "Lord" and the Daemon weapon rules specifically list that Lords with a mark gain those abilities.

Or are you going to try to argue that Abaddon has all four upgrades applied to his Sword which already has D6 attacks and is S8?

 

re: Lash.

I think we just need to remember the LOS rules.

You can't see through a CC.

And the targeting rule

Due to the chaos and swift nature of a melee you can't pick out individual units / dudes.

It's still one damn powerfull ability .... but you don't get the carte blance to target anything within 24" like some people think you can.

The LOS rules themselves don't prevent the Lash from targeting units in CC.

Remember that only MODELS in close combat block line of sight when attempting to fire past them. Units can still draw line of sight to models (and therefore units) on the edges of the combat.

The only thing preventing units in combat from being targeted by firing is the specific rule that prevents players from doing so, not anything specifically to do with LOS.


But its all moot since you can't move models within 1" of the enemy it is impossible to Lash units out of combat.

Models engaged or locked block LOS (BGB pg 20).

Any unit with atleast 1 model in hth is considered locked and therefore blocks LOS (pg 38)

Lash of Submission - blah blah blah ... may pick any unit VISIBLE to the psyker ... blah blah blah

LOS rules therefore limit the use of lash.

Posted By teamroocket on 10/16/2007 1:22 AM
Models engaged or locked block LOS (BGB pg 20).

Any unit with atleast 1 model in hth is considered locked and therefore blocks LOS (pg 38)

Lash of Submission - blah blah blah ... may pick any unit VISIBLE to the psyker ... blah blah blah

LOS rules therefore limit the use of lash.

Okay. . .so the models in combat block line of sight. You seem to have the basic concept mixed up. When something blocks line of sight, it blocks line of sight if you are trying to draw line of sight to another unit. That line of sight blocking unit doesn't block line of sight to itself.

A vehicle (or other size 3 creature) blocks line of sight. But you can still draw line of sight to the vehicle.

Yes, models in combat block line of sight, but you can still technically draw line of sight to the models on the edge of the combat.

again, the only reason you can't target those models you can draw LOS to in combat is because the rule on page 44 prohibits players from doing so.

But again: why bother even arguing the point? Another rule already prohibits the lash from working against units in combat anyway.

 

Posted By Spellbound on 10/10/2007 12:56 PM

I can't wait to whip out this tidbit of information in my local gaming group - they have really been sticking it to me lately with such technicalities like how the DA thunderhammer still has the "at the end of the next assault phase" caveat that can keep a target from attacking indefinitely and that their bikers, since it doesn't specifically say their plasmaguns are NOT mounted on their bikes, can rapid-fire them and assault.

-Spellbound

You got me all freaked out, but I went and checked the DA codex and the Thunderhammer has the same new "Initiative 1" wording as the rest of the new codices, so I'm not exactly sure what you're talking about.

The old one was "strikes at the end of the next combat phase" like the old days, meaning your hammer would go before it (at I1) in the next round and if you wounded, prevent it from striking until the NEXT round.  Maybe they released a new printing.

And in either case, the translation into Japanese came across as "last", so I'm screwed for as long as I live here.

-Spellbound

Yakface wrote:



Yakface, as for Abbadon's sword it is explained in his codex entry what that particular daemon weapon does. Typhus' damon weapon would be one of those thinkgs that is ambiguous as to intent but not according to RAW. I think (and would allow in my local group) Typhus is supposed to get the regular nurgle daemon weapon and the bonus of it being a force weapon. As you pointed out the entry for the weapons say Lord with Mark so you would be under no obligation to allow it in a game.

Orion

Oh, well, then if we're going to get into a nice word debate over the daemon weapon entry...

It says "A Chaos Lord has a Daemon Weapon appropriate to their patron god."

Cool!  They have it already!  I don't need to pay any points for it!  This is of course absurd and I would never try to get that nit-picky.  But....

 

If you continue to read, while it does say "A Chaos Lord" in the line I just quoted, there's an additional line at the bottom of the daemon weapon abilities that states:

"Has an additional ability that varies depending on the mark given to the bearerm as described below."

REGARDLESS of whether you're a lord or anything else, that there does say "bearer", so anyone bearing a daemon weapon gains an additional ability depending on their mark.  So...

Abbadon:  Mark of Chaos Ascendant, it's in his entry.

Lucius:  Slaanesh, but no daemon weapon

Typhus:  Nurgle, Daemon/force weapon, gets the nurgle ability.

Ahriman:  Tzeentch, no daemon weapon

Fabius Bile: no mark [undivided], no daemon weapon

Huron:  no mark [undivided], no daemon weapon

 

So bringing up that no other characters get abilities based on their mark is rather moot - none of them have daemon weapons.  Typhus bears a daemon weapon and has a mark of Nurgle, so lord or not he's perfectly elligible to get it, as I see it.

-Spellbound

Spellbound wrote:

On a different note, in the apocalypse battle report a couple lords turned up with their terminator "retinues" [their words], teleporting together.  Correct me if I'm wrong but since there's now no such thing as a retinue, does not a chaos lord and a terminator squad roll separately, and have to make separate deepstrike rolls [provided no icons are around of course]?

-Spellbound

Hey man,I think they might have been using this http://uk.games-workshop.com/apocalypse/datasheets/assets/chaos_terminators.pdf

Though this rule is pretty recent right compared to the battle report. Anyone know if you can replace the Chaos Lord in that formation with Abaddon or a Chaos Terminater Sorcerer?

One question that was raised about Fabius Biles warrior enchancement. Its just plain CSM right that it applies and not Berserkers,TS,Plague or Noise marines right?

(Oh and hello all,Black Legion player here,Apologies to dredge up a month old thread)