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 Talizvar wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
GW recruit through their own hobby centres, through independent shops, and through clubs and associations of veterans.
These are the three key marketing channels they have spent the past few years downgrading, gaking on, and pissing off.
There is also social online media, which GW have addressed by closing their forums, their FaceBook pages, and by turning their web site from a resource centre into a shop.

Your are stating their past / present behavior pretty much as I outlined.
What is shocking to me is what is left?
Veterans, social media, even a simple Google search all add up to "no dice".
When they conclude their plan, unless a customer knows who they are they will cease to exist.
Then, shortly after, they will cease to exist for real if the existing fan-base is not enough to support them (and the VERY occasional foot traffic into a GW store).

Yes, I agree. I don't think GW has a marketing strategy. I cannot see any evidence of it. Everything they do seems to be the opposite of what I think is needed. Maybe I am just stupid.

 Talizvar wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
GW recruit through their own hobby centres, through independent shops, and through clubs and associations of veterans.
These are the three key marketing channels they have spent the past few years downgrading, gaking on, and pissing off.
There is also social online media, which GW have addressed by closing their forums, their FaceBook pages, and by turning their web site from a resource centre into a shop.

Your are stating their past / present behavior pretty much as I outlined.
What is shocking to me is what is left?
Veterans, social media, even a simple Google search all add up to "no dice".
When they conclude their plan, unless a customer knows who they are they will cease to exist.
Then, shortly after, they will cease to exist for real if the existing fan-base is not enough to support them (and the VERY occasional foot traffic into a GW store).

To be fair, GW has a much more dominating high street presence in the UK. But your points are very well taken. GW cannot survive on UK business alone with its current level of expenditures, and I have not heard a single thing about the one man store model being more advantageous for recruitment, other than possibly being able to afford more brick and mortar stores, but that is a fiction since the data show that GW has closed just about as many stores as it has opened.

In the UK the cost of having a shop is a lot more than the cost of having a staff member in it.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
In the UK the cost of having a shop is a lot more than the cost of having a staff member in it.

I disagree, it is more than possible to have a functional retail space with all bills paid for solidly under £1000 a month (I've let one unit which cost me near £600) but there's a whole load of variables at work to make a generalised statement either way.

A busy store would grab attention, not a busy store that already has 4 people in it and looks cramped. How on earth does a kid drag their folks in with them when there is no room to breath. A least in the old bigger stores there was some space for people to move around in. The new stores to me are kinda like pick up pods. Go in, get want you want and get out.

 Wolfstan wrote:
A busy store would grab attention, not a busy store that already has 4 people in it and looks cramped. How on earth does a kid drag their folks in with them when there is no room to breath. A least in the old bigger stores there was some space for people to move around in. The new stores to me are kinda like pick up pods. Go in, get want you want and get out.

Not only that, but the attitude of the staff varies from store to store. Some stores have a very aggressive salesman for a manager, which completely turns me off. If I visit a local GW and that is what I get, I'm hesitant to return - I'll just go to my FLGS or online*.








*If I still bought GW, that is.

 Azreal13 wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
In the UK the cost of having a shop is a lot more than the cost of having a staff member in it.

I disagree, it is more than possible to have a functional retail space with all bills paid for solidly under £1000 a month (I've let one unit which cost me near £600) but there's a whole load of variables at work to make a generalised statement either way.

It depends on the location, size of shop and so on, plus there is the cost of the inventory. When I looked in Richmond, Surrey, for my wife, the going price of a lease was £3,000 to £5,000 for a medium size unit in a side street. This was about 2006. IDK how costs have gone up and down since then. GW used to have a medium size unit in Richmond, next to the railway station -- i.e. a high footfall location -- and closed it about 2007.

 Kilkrazy wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
In the UK the cost of having a shop is a lot more than the cost of having a staff member in it.

I disagree, it is more than possible to have a functional retail space with all bills paid for solidly under £1000 a month (I've let one unit which cost me near £600) but there's a whole load of variables at work to make a generalised statement either way.

It depends on the location, size of shop and so on, plus there is the cost of the inventory. When I looked in Richmond, Surrey, for my wife, the going price of a lease was £3,000 to £5,000 for a medium size unit in a side street. This was about 2006. IDK how costs have gone up and down since then. GW used to have a medium size unit in Richmond, next to the railway station -- i.e. a high footfall location -- and closed it about 2007.

Exactly, that's what I meant with too many variables, rent, rates etc will vary with location, both in terms of where in a town and where in the country you're looking. You then factor in whether you're basing the comparison on a "fair" wage or simply a legal one and it gets murky.

FWIW, most GW locations in my county that I've seen would be very much at the bottom end in terms of rent and rates based on their location IMO (the local one is in a row with charity shops, a laundrette and a hairdresser, not exactly business that are known for moving into prestige high street locations) but I'm sure they have other stores in more prominent locations elsewhere (at least until the lease is up for renewal and they can move so,wwhere else to cut costs!)

The approach to stores shows how out of touch GW really is. A store everywhere might work in the UK, but never in North America. They're pissing off the people who would otherwise be advocating their game.

WayneTheGame wrote:
The approach to stores shows how out of touch GW really is. A store everywhere might work in the UK, but never in North America. They're pissing off the people who would otherwise be advocating their game.

I can actually somewhat forgive this, as other, much larger companies have made similar mistakes in international markets.

One example I've heard from an old GM exec is how Toyota USA was pushing for years to get into the pickup truck market, however HQ in Japan always refused because they observed it to be an extremely small market, which was true.... in Japan. The story goes that one day they got the Japanese executives to come to a Dallas Cowboys game and had them look out at the parking lot from one of the upper suites to see virtually 100,000 pickup trucks. Their minds changed very quickly.

What doesn't make sense to me is the utter lack of an online presence. This isn't the 1990s anymore. If you don't engage your community, you have no influence whatsoever on your online image, and that's a huge business risk.

But this won't be the first time a company with a lot of promise has been run into the ground by a bunch of old fogeys in upper management. We have this company called Kodak here in Rochester....

slowthar: your sig caught my eye.

Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.
- Hanlon's Razor

GW in a nutshell (I hope).

Yes, I love that concept because I think it explains many, many things we encounter every day.

And I think it definitely applies here.

Saying all of this, I've just had a look at the P&M showcase section. At the time of writing, on the front page all but 9 items are something to do with GW. The rest are a mix of painting studios and a few for historical and other games. That's out of 40 items on the page, so less than 25%.*

The reason that GW has been able to afford to be so extraordinarily gakky, is because they have had such a massive (perhaps humongous is a better word) market share advantage for sci-fi/fantasy games. They can afford to raise prices through the roof, launch legal actions, cut games and miniatures from their lines, close down social networking, because of this advantage. 'Other games' are gathering pace, but I think for the most part they are Nurglings nibbling away at the toes of Pappa Nurgle, sat farting and counting the wads of cash on his filthy and stinking throne.


* Acknowledging that Dakka was initially created for Warhammer/40k. I have no doubt that this would be somewhat different picture on different websites.

 Pacific wrote:
Saying all of this, I've just had a look at the P&M showcase section. At the time of writing, on the front page all but 9 items are something to do with GW. The rest are a mix of painting studios and a few for historical and other games. That's out of 40 items on the page, so less than 25%.*

The reason that GW has been able to afford to be so extraordinarily gakky, is because they have had such a massive (perhaps humongous is a better word) market share advantage for sci-fi/fantasy games. They can afford to raise prices through the roof, launch legal actions, cut games and miniatures from their lines, close down social networking, because of this advantage. 'Other games' are gathering pace, but I think for the most part they are Nurglings nibbling away at the toes of Pappa Nurgle, sat farting and counting the wads of cash on his filthy and stinking throne.


* Acknowledging that Dakka was initially created for Warhammer/40k. I have no doubt that this would be somewhat different picture on different websites.

Of course. The question is, how long can they continue those types of practices without repercussion? From the looks of the past few financial reports, it looks like they have crossed that line. More importantly, it looks like they have no idea that line exists, which seems to spell certain doom for them.

 slowthar wrote:
One example I've heard from an old GM exec is how Toyota USA was pushing for years to get into the pickup truck market, however HQ in Japan always refused because they observed it to be an extremely small market, which was true.... in Japan. The story goes that one day they got the Japanese executives to come to a Dallas Cowboys game and had them look out at the parking lot from one of the upper suites to see virtually 100,000 pickup trucks. Their minds changed very quickly.

What would be the Games Workshop equivalent of this? What could you possibly show them that would get anyone to understand what you, and others here, mean.

 mechanicalhorizon wrote:

 slowthar wrote:
One example I've heard from an old GM exec is how Toyota USA was pushing for years to get into the pickup truck market, however HQ in Japan always refused because they observed it to be an extremely small market, which was true.... in Japan. The story goes that one day they got the Japanese executives to come to a Dallas Cowboys game and had them look out at the parking lot from one of the upper suites to see virtually 100,000 pickup trucks. Their minds changed very quickly.

What would be the Games Workshop equivalent of this? What could you possibly show them that would get anyone to understand what you, and others here, mean.

I think the GW equivalent would probably be tying tournaments (or leagues) to sales. Show them that organized events drive sales, and that supporting those events with a tight ruleset, prize support, an experienced staffer (i.e. a second employee at the store) and a few extra tables means a solidified, positive-minded community that becomes a fairly self-sustaining stream of sales. Show them that there's a community out there dying to have their support and interaction, and that just minimal investment in those things would produce wonderful results.

My local toyworld/hobby place stopped stocking warhammer, I used to by my lord of the rinds and 40k stuff from there, unfortunately they stopped moving stock, just too expensive

It was actually a great idea what they had going on, it was a massive toystore and then up the back they had a massive hobby section, and a substantial part dedicated to warhammer. id be at the counter looking at what to buy, they used to let me go behind there and look through the blisters which was cool.

anyway kids would run up from the front to the back and see all the cool warhammer, it was awesome however by the time their parents came around and saw the prices. there was no way little timmy or sarah would be getting anything from there, just to damned expensive. which is a shame that part used to thrive.

GW have lost there minds with pricing in oz, whilst yes it is true that we have a higher minimum wage and earn more money, the reality is alot of people dont earn a whole lot of money, not where i live anyway.

I rarely buy something new most of my stuff is second hand scrounged on ebay or something, plus ive bought one codex in like 3 years and i dont have the 7th edition rulebook either. any codex's for me will be second hand. I simply cannot justify ( and i dont think many other aussies can either) paying $83 for a book, thats like a days wage

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Wolfstan wrote:
What is the situation with GW stores in Oz...

You ever see a film called "The Never Ending Story"? Well in that film there was a force called the "Nothing". That's pretty much the state of GW stores in Oz. The store is there, and then it just isn't.

I prefer to think of it more like Artax drowning the swamp of sadness.

Only Atrayu the GW regional manager for Australia and Artax is his job.

I'm not the best at reading these things, but is it possible to see in general if Black Library is making money independant from the whole?

That is , example "Black Library making revenue in excess of its expenses, Forgeworld making revenue in excess of expenses, Games Workshop not making revenue in excess of expenses."

What I mean to say is, it is said that Games Workshop can no longer cut anything or they can't cut anything without it being counterproductive.

But if there's a scenario where BL is profitable but the rest isn't, even if it cuts revenue drastically you could cut expenses dramatically by liquidating the entire 40k/FB line, the shops, etc and just licensing it out to another game company (perhaps keeping FW if it's profitable and they want to keep make premium pieces/rekit bits for sale).

They aren't likely to do this, because it would entail them having the ability to recognize that they are losing market yet not having the ability to make competitive changes by themselves. But they've something similar to it before when they partnered with Milton Bradley, and they let other people make the video/computer games rather than just opening their own studio for that so it's not completely unprecedented.

But aside from that are there any problems with this if say, GW did this and just let someone else like Mantic Games take the responsibility and overhead of making 40k/FB profitable while they just collect the licensing fees? Yeah, much reduced revenue, but much reduced expense as well.

 frozenwastes wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Wolfstan wrote:
What is the situation with GW stores in Oz...

You ever see a film called "The Never Ending Story"? Well in that film there was a force called the "Nothing". That's pretty much the state of GW stores in Oz. The store is there, and then it just isn't.

I prefer to think of it more like Artax drowning the swamp of sadness.

Only Atrayu the GW regional manager for Australia and Artax is his job.

The GW stores in Aus behave a lot more like the UK than the US, despite Australia being similar in size to the US. This is because Australia actually has moderate population density, when you only consider the populated areas. That might sound a bit silly/biased, but consider that 64% of Australia's population lives in 5 cities.
Australia has 40 GW stores for a population of ~25M; compared to 87 stores for North America's population of ~350M.

The GW report shows that 57% of GW's sales in Australia were through GW stores - though that obviously doesn't count Australian orders from overseas, it still is nearly equal to the UK's GW store contribution, both of which are significantly larger than NA or Europe.

Australia, on a sales-per-population basis is four times Europe and more than double NA, but stil 50% short of the UK.
However, Australia is the worst out of GW's markets comparing percentage of revenue as profit.

Anecdotally - there are 4 GW stores in my city of 2M people. One is in one of the highest traffic retail areas in the CBD, though not really in a prime location. Another is also in a very busy shopping centre. The final two are a bit weird - a few hundred meters away from the shopping centres, only kind of in the retail area but obviously in cheap locations. AFAIK the CBD store is 2-man, everything else is 1-man. The staff are relatively friendly but there isn't really a gaming scene at all in them any more. It used to be that people would meet at the store for games and there were 'veterans nights' but those don't happen anymore: there is now one 4x4 showcasing WHFB and the Hobbit, and one 4x4 showcasing 40k.

 Azreal13 wrote:

 Inquisitor Bob wrote:
To be honest,
I can't help but think that complaints on dakka is hardly turning the company around..
GW/KIRBY don't do market research.. That way they don't had to show their investors that research.. (Which IMHO would be bad... Very bad)...
So why are Dakkanuaghts not getting together and... I don't know.. If not a market research document then a petition to all the major investing companies.. (Without nerd rage or preamble)
There are enough members that someone would now how to present a professional dossier... And it would at least have a chance to do so much more than nerd rage over first world problems..

Because the investors don't care if we're happy or not, they don't care if GW are refining their plastic from cute orphans, all they care about is a dividend, and, in the main, they have received it.

The only practical option on the table is to withhold as much cash as possible from GW at every opportunity, buying third party, second hand, buying from independents so GW only receive wholesale value, cumulatively it will all count. If enough people are dissatisfied enough to do this, then their income will fall, they will be unable to pay a dividend and then everyone in a position to affect change will have to act.

I've spent about $400 in the last year or so on Warhammer 40k through Ebay and local ads only (2k points worth of DA, 1k of SM, and another 500 on CSM) - and the only time GW gets a dime from me are when I need to buy new paint pots (which are themselves a rip-off considering the amount of paint and the shoddiness of the plastic caps).

 mechanicalhorizon wrote:

 slowthar wrote:
One example I've heard from an old GM exec is how Toyota USA was pushing for years to get into the pickup truck market, however HQ in Japan always refused because they observed it to be an extremely small market, which was true.... in Japan. The story goes that one day they got the Japanese executives to come to a Dallas Cowboys game and had them look out at the parking lot from one of the upper suites to see virtually 100,000 pickup trucks. Their minds changed very quickly.

What would be the Games Workshop equivalent of this? What could you possibly show them that would get anyone to understand what you, and others here, mean.

That's easy, IMO: Realize that 13 year old kids are not the only people that play their product., hell maybe not even the majority Maybe that's true in the UK (I've long heard that over there 40k is seen as a game for rich kids unlike here in the states where it is seen as a game for college aged adult nerds, someone from the UK please verify!), but here in the states in my two years of going to the LA Battlebunker almost every weekend with my friends before it became a one-man store, I saw a grand total of THREE customers that fit GW's "13 year old kid with rich parents" demographic. Literally EVERY other customer I saw was an 18 year old+ adult who bought products with their own money.

If GW can be forced to see that their main customers here in the US are NOT 13 year old tweens that actually think names like "Murderfang" are cool, then maybe, MAYBE GW can change their attitudes regarding their customers...

Plenty of adults play 40K in the UK.

sciencemile wrote:
I'm not the best at reading these things, but is it possible to see in general if Black Library is making money independant from the whole?

That is , example "Black Library making revenue in excess of its expenses, Forgeworld making revenue in excess of expenses, Games Workshop not making revenue in excess of expenses."

What I mean to say is, it is said that Games Workshop can no longer cut anything or they can't cut anything without it being counterproductive.

...
...
...

Games Workshop's management accounting team certainly know the details about the Black Library division. We cannot find out from published figures, as the report lists Black Library, Forge World, digital sales and licencing revenue in "Other". This category contributed about 11% of revenues in 2013-2014.

This makes it clear that the core games are the driving power of the company. Black Library is a minor spin-off that is nice to have but could not survive by itself if the core games vanished.

It seems unlikely that GW would hand over 40K and Fantasy to be designed and manufactured under licence by other companies. Their strategy is to be vertically integrated, meaning they design, manufacture, distribute and retail everything as much as possible through their own hands. This gives them substantial fixed costs, so the success of the strategy depends on producing stuff that enough people want to buy. This is where things are going wrong for them at the moment.

Vertical integration is a strategy that GW fell into accidentally rather than picked deliberately. GW used to be a pure distributor, then added retailing, developed a retail chain, a publishing business and a model manufacturing business, then their own games. Then over the years they have cut back and got rid of everything 3rd party, and reduced the range of their own games to just two. It would not have been possible to set up a huge retail chain on the back of 40K /Fantasy, and it would not have been possible to popularise 40K/Fantasy without the existing retail chain.

It has been suggested that GW should maximise the utility of their retail chain by diversifying the product line up to include 3rd party titles such as the Fantasy Flight games licensed from GW, and more games than just 40K/Fantasy.

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:

 mechanicalhorizon wrote:

 slowthar wrote:
One example I've heard from an old GM exec is how Toyota USA was pushing for years to get into the pickup truck market, however HQ in Japan always refused because they observed it to be an extremely small market, which was true.... in Japan. The story goes that one day they got the Japanese executives to come to a Dallas Cowboys game and had them look out at the parking lot from one of the upper suites to see virtually 100,000 pickup trucks. Their minds changed very quickly.

What would be the Games Workshop equivalent of this? What could you possibly show them that would get anyone to understand what you, and others here, mean.

That's easy, IMO: Realize that 13 year old kids are not the only people that play their product., hell maybe not even the majority Maybe that's true in the UK (I've long heard that over there 40k is seen as a game for rich kids unlike here in the states where it is seen as a game for college aged adult nerds, someone from the UK please verify!), but here in the states in my two years of going to the LA Battlebunker almost every weekend with my friends before it became a one-man store, I saw a grand total of THREE customers that fit GW's "13 year old kid with rich parents" demographic. Literally EVERY other customer I saw was an 18 year old+ adult who bought products with their own money.

If GW can be forced to see that their main customers here in the US are NOT 13 year old tweens that actually think names like "Murderfang" are cool, then maybe, MAYBE GW can change their attitudes regarding their customers...

To add to that, they could, furthermore, see how popular smaller-scale games are in these stores. Last time I went (admittedly several months ago) to my FLGS of choice, small scale skirmish games like Infinity and Malifaux were quite popular, and many of theplayers had no interest in larger scale games like 40K and WHFB, or did, in fact, play 40K and/or WHFB,but wanted something a little different to dabble in. One of the FLGS in my hometown has a regularly schedule Dropzone Commander night which I've heard is rather popular.

If GW did some market research, they'd see these kinds of games are popular, and maybe they could offer a small-scale skirmish game which might appeal to some of those people who decided to pick up Infinity or Malifaux instead, or a utterly massive, apocalyptic scale game that would've competed with Dropzone Commander.

Instead, they've decided that offering anything other than 40K or WHFB means you'll buy that other game they make instead of 40K/WHFB. Furthermore, they think that if they don't offer that Infinity or Dropzone Commander style game, you'll buy 40K or WHFB instead. They honestly believe that if I want to play Necromunda, and buy Necromunda, that obviously means I'm not buying 40K, and furthermore, if I want to play Necromunda, but they don't offer Necromunda, I'll just go "Oh well!" and buy 40K instead and won't say "Well, then, I'll go find a game from a different company that's similar to Necromunda!"

 mechanicalhorizon wrote:

 slowthar wrote:
One example I've heard from an old GM exec is how Toyota USA was pushing for years to get into the pickup truck market, however HQ in Japan always refused because they observed it to be an extremely small market, which was true.... in Japan. The story goes that one day they got the Japanese executives to come to a Dallas Cowboys game and had them look out at the parking lot from one of the upper suites to see virtually 100,000 pickup trucks. Their minds changed very quickly.

What would be the Games Workshop equivalent of this? What could you possibly show them that would get anyone to understand what you, and others here, mean.

Attend a big tournament convention. Get the people who make decisions, the rules designers, to go to NOVA and see just how many people are showing up to play their game.

Better yet, go to a different convention, for example a MTG tournament. A quick google search shows that the biggest MTG tournament held was 4500 people! Show GW 4500 magic players paying to play at a competitive event and tempt them that they could be part of that market.

I think they used to get it. The old games days attracted a fair crowd, and the awarding of the Slayer Sword was pretty epic. I think they just didn't see the idea that the very existence and awesomeness of the event spurred sales in other areas, and instead tried to evaluate the game as a single-day profit-making event. What rubbish! Think of the hundreds of models which they sold only because the buyers were entering the Golden Daemon. Surely they should be factored in to the profitability of the event in a real analysis. What about all the armies for the display tables? The armies for 'Ard Boyz?

For the life of me I can't remember where I saw this but someone said that any event held in a GW store has to directly make money.

That kinda blew my mind because in this hobby that is the very definition of putting the cart before the horse.

You host events to get people excited about the hobby and to get them in your store. After that taking their money requires no effort. Getting money out of someone who's apathetic is going to be a challenge.

Companies House in the UK has 13 listings for Games Workshop. Not really showing a huge amount, but interesting seeing the spread: http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk//companysearch?disp=1&frfsh=1408089950&#result

sciencemile wrote:
I'm not the best at reading these things, but is it possible to see in general if Black Library is making money independant from the whole?

That is , example "Black Library making revenue in excess of its expenses, Forgeworld making revenue in excess of expenses, Games Workshop not making revenue in excess of expenses."

No, for a couple of reasons:

Black Library and Forgeworld sales are largely based on existing fans. Black Library is fiction that is on top of the setting, rather than the setting coming from the fiction, and that the sales show a spike on release and tail off show that it is fans who already know about it; in effect, the product has no legs beyond it.

Not only that, but these fans are the most 'hard core' - as the playerbase bleeds away, these are the last as someone who drops £100s on a titan is less inclined to be put off of costs of figures. The stuff they produce is a luxury and even more niche than GW main, but as their target audience is the most dedicated and loyal they will shrink the slowest.

These two would not be capable of continuing separately from GW main since without the supported setting, Forgeworld models are above average (but not top of class) quality pricy resin generic spacemen/soldier.

 Talizvar wrote:
I think I have been exposed to GW product for so long I forget some fundamental issues with GW's method of marketing.

How the heck do they get new customers / players involved in their product?

How will the average human being even be exposed to them never mind be inspired to buy?

GW gets new players by good old-fashioned word-of-mouth. Every player in my gaming group has been 'recruited' this way: an old player demoes the game for a newbie, who gets excited, buys and builds up his own army, demoes it again to some other new guy who gets excited etc. It's like a virus. Of course, prerequisite for this (quite effective) way of marketing is that there are existing players who are excited about the product. An army gathering dust abandoned in the closet does not attract anyone else to play the game.

People are too hung up with the ideas of "GW doesn't do advertising" or "GW doesn't do market research". I've never understood where GW is supposed to be advertising. Gaming magazines? That's a dying media. TV? Hugely expensive, and again, dying form of advertising. Internet? People who google "miniatures" or "games" are not looking for wargames. They're looking for some antique or collectible miniatures, or games for computers, tablets or phones. People who google "war games" most often already know that GW exists.
Best form of advertising for a tabletop game, or RPG, or card game, is getting to see and experience it in first hand. That's how I got introduced to D&D, MtG and Warhammer. And this is why GW has its own stores, it is essentially form of advertising - although very expensive form of advertising, but that's what works the best.

As for market research, obviously Kirby was very prideful in his comment, equating GW to some successful artists or bands who sell millions of records doing their own thing, not caring about MTV, Top 40 charts or mainstream radio stations - in contrast to made-up, heavily marketed corporate products a'la Britney Spears or Justin Bieber. It is quite silly to equate a company, which so clearly is bent up on making money and has gradually become more distant, impersonal and corporate-like, to an 'artist', but that's how they want themselves to be seen.
That they "don't do market research" means that they don't hire some marketing firm to perform polls like this:



...which I really can't blame them for.

"No market research" does not mean that they do not listen to their customer base at all - they do get feedback, they must be well aware what are the most common complaints, and it is obvious that some changes in recent years have been results of customer feedback. Sure, they might not listen customers that MUCH, but it doesn't mean that they're completely ignorant about what average Joe Gamer feels.

 Azreal13 wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
In the UK the cost of having a shop is a lot more than the cost of having a staff member in it.

I disagree, it is more than possible to have a functional retail space with all bills paid for solidly under £1000 a month (I've let one unit which cost me near £600) but there's a whole load of variables at work to make a generalised statement either way.

It depends on the location, size of shop and so on, plus there is the cost of the inventory. When I looked in Richmond, Surrey, for my wife, the going price of a lease was £3,000 to £5,000 for a medium size unit in a side street. This was about 2006. IDK how costs have gone up and down since then. GW used to have a medium size unit in Richmond, next to the railway station -- i.e. a high footfall location -- and closed it about 2007.

Exactly, that's what I meant with too many variables, rent, rates etc will vary with location, both in terms of where in a town and where in the country you're looking. You then factor in whether you're basing the comparison on a "fair" wage or simply a legal one and it gets murky.

FWIW, most GW locations in my county that I've seen would be very much at the bottom end in terms of rent and rates based on their location IMO (the local one is in a row with charity shops, a laundrette and a hairdresser, not exactly business that are known for moving into prestige high street locations) but I'm sure they have other stores in more prominent locations elsewhere (at least until the lease is up for renewal and they can move so,wwhere else to cut costs!)

GW selects generally just off high street locations and the rents are not "Cheap". Or used to. That policy changing over time leads to a mixed footprint of stores and not an absolute archetype of store for all of us in the UK to identify with.