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 Vineheart01 wrote:
yeah im running into the usual issue of i hate the command phase....

Almost everything i can think of utilizing Core falls flat because it happens after the command phase. God i hate the command phase....virtually everything in there needs to be at the end of movement...its so dumb that if an Overlord gets out of a transport he cant MWBD anybody that turn.

Best i can think of is to kinda cheese the flayed ones with the scythe. Scythe flies behind the enemy T2 like 5" away from something and dumps 20 Flayed Ones for 1cp that were in reserves. Guaranteed charge, and also major panic inducing lol. Ideally some skorps in the transport but then they wont see any fighting till T3 and theres a pretty good chance the scythe will blow up before they get out.

For 2 cp you can put scythe in reserve. Cp hungry but no blowing up before and easier to get to right spot than with 20" movement and 90 degree pivot

tneva82 wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
yeah im running into the usual issue of i hate the command phase....

Almost everything i can think of utilizing Core falls flat because it happens after the command phase. God i hate the command phase....virtually everything in there needs to be at the end of movement...its so dumb that if an Overlord gets out of a transport he cant MWBD anybody that turn.

Best i can think of is to kinda cheese the flayed ones with the scythe. Scythe flies behind the enemy T2 like 5" away from something and dumps 20 Flayed Ones for 1cp that were in reserves. Guaranteed charge, and also major panic inducing lol. Ideally some skorps in the transport but then they wont see any fighting till T3 and theres a pretty good chance the scythe will blow up before they get out.

For 2 cp you can put scythe in reserve. Cp hungry but no blowing up before and easier to get to right spot than with 20" movement and 90 degree pivot

So thats 2CP to put the flayed ones in strategic reserve, 2CP to put the scythe in strategic reserve, and 1CP to teleport them in. Thats a total of "only" 5CP for one unit.

Yeah, its too much cp. Really stupid that strategic reserves cost cp.
This edition was supposed to be "Everyone gets more cp!" and they across the board made it even more limited.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Yeah, its too much cp. Really stupid that strategic reserves cost cp.
This edition was supposed to be "Everyone gets more cp!" and they across the board made it even more limited.

It's not more limited, everyone that didn't use CP batteries do get more CP and strategic reserves is fine as is. You're not supposed to put Night Scythes into reserves, they're transports, you don't put Rhinos into reserves either. If you want the breach to work then take 2 Night Scythes, put some reasonable units inside them, if the Night Scythes get destroyed then just arrive normally with your reserved unit.

Putting 1 Night Scythe (8PL) + 6 Skorpekhs (10PL) into reserves costs 2CP. You're never paying more than 1CP to put a Night Scythe into reserves, 0 if you've got 10, 11, 20, 21, 30 or 31 PL in reserves already.

So I've been out of the loop for quite a while but the new balance patch has got me wondering whether my army might be viable again.



The Overlord supports the Gauss Immortals, the Chronomancer supports the Triarch Praetorians (Honourable Combatant is just for a laugh, as it literally triples his attacks with a D3 weapon), the Technomancer supports the Destroyers and the CCB supports the Wraiths.

As I said, I've been very much out of the loop with regard to necrons and the meta in general, so does this look at all viable?


Also, are Destroyer Lords still rather pointless? I was contemplating taking one in place of the Overlord but they seem far less flexible (especially with the changes to Core) and it didn't seem to add a whole lot.

 vict0988 wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Yeah, its too much cp. Really stupid that strategic reserves cost cp.
This edition was supposed to be "Everyone gets more cp!" and they across the board made it even more limited.

It's not more limited, everyone that didn't use CP batteries do get more CP and strategic reserves is fine as is. You're not supposed to put Night Scythes into reserves, they're transports, you don't put Rhinos into reserves either. If you want the breach to work then take 2 Night Scythes, put some reasonable units inside them, if the Night Scythes get destroyed then just arrive normally with your reserved unit.

Putting 1 Night Scythe (8PL) + 6 Skorpekhs (10PL) into reserves costs 2CP. You're never paying more than 1CP to put a Night Scythe into reserves, 0 if you've got 10, 11, 20, 21, 30 or 31 PL in reserves already.

Scythe + 15 flayed ones is 2CP to put them into strategic reserves (PL 8+9=17), plus 1CP to teleport them in, 3CP total. 20 flayed ones (PL 8+12=20) would be 4CP total. You could use the deceiver to place three units in strategic reserves for free.

Well, I'm not enthusiastic about the Necron codex although the latest update goes in the right direction.
I played Necrons in local tourneys in the 6th and 7th edition with good success, e.g. 3x5 Wraiths were nearly indestructable.
I've also seen successful Necrons in editions prior the 6th one.
But in the new edition, Necrons are not found at top tables.
No capable army lists in sight. No psychic protection (as always) but this can hurt a lot.
I'm toying with the idea to shelf them for future updates, play GK until the new Eldar codex comes out ...

Thoughts? Opinions?

Why are you paying CP to put Flayed Ones in Strategic Reserves when they have a natural deepstrike?

Because you cannot use the stratagem for the Scythe to drop them right next to someone if they use their innate deepstrike.

Strategic Reserves =\= Innate Deepstrike moves. Strat calls out specifically Strategic Reserves, not "set aside models"

The only way to get around spending CP and still be a viable target for the stratagem is if the Deceiver puts them in reserves.

Ah I see it now. Since it was never an option before, I never noticed the interaction (or lack of)

All of these gimmick teleportation and 6" charge ideas are so tiring hearing about a year after the Codex dropped. You do not need to do them and they will always be a waste of points and CP.

With the average board sizes and the mission layouts you're better off footslogging rather than trying to play 4D chess and work out esoteric bs with nightscythes. Just walk up the board and be in combat turn 2 while having all of your buffs. Even 5" move Death Guard can manage it so pre-game moving Flayed Ones, Wraiths and Skorpekhs that are also getting +2" move in turn 1 should have no issues.

I mean, a veil and a chronomancer for the charge re-rolls have a solid chance of getting any unit you want into combat first turn. My mate used it to get a chunky unit of Skopechs into combat first turn. Had to spend my entire army to shift them and the lord. A solid way to get control of the early game.

Any chance the Monolith could somehow make a comeback with the new changes?

 Bosskelot wrote:
All of these gimmick teleportation and 6" charge ideas are so tiring hearing about a year after the Codex dropped. You do not need to do them and they will always be a waste of points and CP.

With the average board sizes and the mission layouts you're better off footslogging rather than trying to play 4D chess and work out esoteric bs with nightscythes. Just walk up the board and be in combat turn 2 while having all of your buffs. Even 5" move Death Guard can manage it so pre-game moving Flayed Ones, Wraiths and Skorpekhs that are also getting +2" move in turn 1 should have no issues.

That's nice if you have opponent that lets you do what you want without doing anything. Most play vs opponents that try to win though.

 Blndmage wrote:
Any chance the Monolith could somehow make a comeback with the new changes?

None, the Eternity Gate ability is useless, using Breach on a melee unit is not superior to reaper Warriors. Laser Chickens are still scary efficient against Monoliths and replacing Drukhari with TS and GK doesn't help Monoliths, not to mention the possibility of a Ravager resurgence. Most importantly terrain suggestions have not changed and most tournaments use too much terrain for Monoliths to make a comeback. If you play in a meta with less obnoxious terrain and nobody spams melta or D3+3 damage weapons then it's okay, but the balance dataslate does not change enough.

tneva82 wrote:

 Bosskelot wrote:
All of these gimmick teleportation and 6" charge ideas are so tiring hearing about a year after the Codex dropped. You do not need to do them and they will always be a waste of points and CP.

With the average board sizes and the mission layouts you're better off footslogging rather than trying to play 4D chess and work out esoteric bs with nightscythes. Just walk up the board and be in combat turn 2 while having all of your buffs. Even 5" move Death Guard can manage it so pre-game moving Flayed Ones, Wraiths and Skorpekhs that are also getting +2" move in turn 1 should have no issues.

That's nice if you have opponent that lets you do what you want without doing anything. Most play vs opponents that try to win though.

The exact same comment applies to trying to Breach a unit in via a Night Scythe, your Night Scythe can get gunned down or you can get screened out of outflanking anywhere interesting with your Night Scythe. Being dismissive of Night Scythes makes sense, we still haven't seen one top 4 in 9th and I have never heard of anyone having great results with one, Night Scythes being viable is entirely theoretical, Skorpekhs, Wraiths and Lychguard have worked for many posters in this thread and have made top 4 appearances.

tneva82 wrote:

 Bosskelot wrote:
All of these gimmick teleportation and 6" charge ideas are so tiring hearing about a year after the Codex dropped. You do not need to do them and they will always be a waste of points and CP.

With the average board sizes and the mission layouts you're better off footslogging rather than trying to play 4D chess and work out esoteric bs with nightscythes. Just walk up the board and be in combat turn 2 while having all of your buffs. Even 5" move Death Guard can manage it so pre-game moving Flayed Ones, Wraiths and Skorpekhs that are also getting +2" move in turn 1 should have no issues.

That's nice if you have opponent that lets you do what you want without doing anything. Most play vs opponents that try to win though.

I play 40k pretty much exclusively competitively. So, sorry, I am playing vs opponents who are trying to win.

Even before the core changes, as vict0988 says, footslogging Skorpekhs, Wraiths and Lychguard made regular appearances in top Necron lists. In my last game vs Tsons my Skorpekhs were in combat on turn 2 with their full suite of buffs up.

If you play on terrible boards with little obscuring or LOS-blocking then the Night Scythe potentially has a niche. But even then how is it going to survive 1 round of shooting vs any top lists? You really expect it to stand up to DW/IH dread spam? 5 NDK's? 20 Scarab Terminators and 2 Volcons?

What are peoples thoughts on Lokhust Destroyers now? Specifically the non heavy version.

I think they are the unit that has gained the most from the Core update, but I'm not sure it's enough to make them worth it.

The most important gain is the ability to use the Veil of Darkness on them to go instantly from safely hidden, to an optimum firing position. MWBD gets them to 2's to hit rerolling 1's, which might make their reroll wounds strat worth the 2CP. They can also benefit from a Technomancers Hypermaterial Ablator and Rites of reanimation to help survive any retaliation.

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
What are peoples thoughts on Lokhust Destroyers now? Specifically the non heavy version.

I think they are the unit that has gained the most from the Core update, but I'm not sure it's enough to make them worth it.

The most important gain is the ability to use the Veil of Darkness on them to go instantly from safely hidden, to an optimum firing position. MWBD gets them to 2's to hit rerolling 1's, which might make their reroll wounds strat worth the 2CP. They can also benefit from a Technomancers Hypermaterial Ablator and Rites of reanimation to help survive any retaliation.

If you put a LHD in the unit and give them the ablator, they're pretty tough. You can tank 3 damage hits on the LHD to cost them a lot of efficiency, and then just res him again when he dies with a technomancer. I think with MWBD access again and the LHD embedded, Lokhust are a bit interesting.

Oh that's interesting. I hadn't considered using the LHD that way.

On that front, is there a consensus as to the best weapon for the LHD?

Also, is the Lokhust Destroyer Lord any use? (I'm thinking as a platform for the Voltaic Staff.)

The bonus protection against D3 weapons is nice, although it does mean that their shooting is a little less specialised. Bringing a 60pt model back with a technomancer will feel extra naughty!

I think it's got to be the Gauss Destructor on LHD. Single model units of them were great before the core buff, and now bigger units may be worth it too.

The Destroyer lord(s) look less apealing after this update, simply because the other HQs got a buff while they stayed the same. The extermination Protocols strat makes their aura redundant for Lokhusts too.

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
What are peoples thoughts on Lokhust Destroyers now? Specifically the non heavy version.

Still too expensive, not enough resilience. They need a lot of support. A chronomancer and a technomancer to give them 5++ and raise one from the dead, or a reanimator, and MWBD to give them +1 to hit. Thats almost doubling the cost of the unit. 300 points for 6 LDs, plus 80+80+100 for technomancer (or reanimator), chronomancer, overlord. And if you want to be able to shoot after falling back you need a royal warden for 75.

6 LD + 1 LHD cannot even kill one redemptor dreadnought. You would need stratagems to do that.

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:

I think it's got to be the Gauss Destructor on LHD. Single model units of them were great before the core buff, and now bigger units may be worth it too.

Cool. Thank you.

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:

The Destroyer lord(s) look less apealing after this update, simply because the other HQs got a buff while they stayed the same. The extermination Protocols strat makes their aura redundant for Lokhusts too.

Yeah, that was my thought as well. I was really hoping to be wrong, though.

Guess my favourite Necron HQ will be spending another edition on the shelf.

 p5freak wrote:

Still too expensive, not enough resilience. They need a lot of support. A chronomancer and a technomancer to give them 5++ and raise one from the dead, or a reanimator, and MWBD to give them +1 to hit. Thats almost doubling the cost of the unit. 300 points for 6 LDs, plus 80+80+100 for technomancer (or reanimator), chronomancer, overlord. And if you want to be able to shoot after falling back you need a royal warden for 75.

6 LD + 1 LHD cannot even kill one redemptor dreadnought. You would need stratagems to do that.

Isn't that a bit excessive, though?

Surely Destroyers don't need a Technomancer *and* a Chronomancer *and* an Overlord? I'd think just a Technomancer with the Veil would be sufficient.

i've been trying to avoid triplestacking HQ buffs because that tends to lead to a "death ball"
In old 40k, that would have been fine since tabling meant objectives were pointless. Not the case in 9th, if you dont play the objective you are gonna lose most of the time.
So that deathball wont score other than killing secondaries. Primary can outpace the 2 killing objectives you got really easily.

Lokhusts are probbaly best with just a techno and a chrono OR overlord, but not both. Also note that a techno can also be buffing a Doomstalker or two at the same time.
In the past it wasnt very favorable to do that because thats an HQ for parkinglot duty, paying for a rule that he never uses.. Now he's pulling double or even triple duty AND theres something in front of the doomstalkers to deter charging because of the free overwatch.

5++ for defense, or 2+ to hit. Take your pick, not both. Preferebly for me the 2+ to hit because i really want that Chrono buff on stuff that might be charging or has crap defense in the first place.

Personally I'm going to run 3xLHD with a Technomancer babysitter and give them MWBD turn 1 and probably turn 2. Chronomancers have much better targets

That's the issue that still lies at the core (heh) of the army despite the changes.

Yes, the core keyword changes are fantastic, but so much of the army is still very expensive points-wise that in order to really see the effects you'll have to invest too much into them, unless you're already running very character heavy builds.

Points drops in MFM would go a long way into really helping a lot of the army click and really come into its own finally.

Anyone see the rumor engine?

 vipoid wrote:

Isn't that a bit excessive, though?

Surely Destroyers don't need a Technomancer *and* a Chronomancer *and* an Overlord? I'd think just a Technomancer with the Veil would be sufficient.

They need them if you want them to survive, and not get blasted from the table T2. And if you want to kill something. Destroyers with a technomancer would only barely scratch a redemptor dread. And marines have three of those. The return fire from those redemptors would easily wipe out your destroyers.

 p5freak wrote:

 vipoid wrote:

Isn't that a bit excessive, though?

Surely Destroyers don't need a Technomancer *and* a Chronomancer *and* an Overlord? I'd think just a Technomancer with the Veil would be sufficient.

They need them if you want them to survive, and not get blasted from the table T2. And if you want to kill something. Destroyers with a technomancer would only barely scratch a redemptor dread. And marines have three of those. The return fire from those redemptors would easily wipe out your destroyers.

Obviously S6 D3 damage shots are not great vs. T7 -1 damage, you're picking one of the worst things to put them against, but even then, a full unit of 6 LD + 1 LHD with MWBD + EP does ~15 wounds to a Redemptor.

Adding on the cost of all the HQs that can buff them is never particularly helpful either. Your army will almost certainly have an Overlord, (possibly a Phaeron now) the destroyers will cost you one of your MWBD uses. It's not unreasonable to add most of the cost of a veil caddy to the unit though.

I have now played both with and against a unit of 6 Lokhusts + 1 Heavy Lokhust supported by a Technomancer with a Veil ( I added the Hypermaterial Ablator to mine). They are quite terrifying to face. The damage output can be massive, it's hard to avoid due to the Veil + 24" range, and they can be really hard to shift - if they have veiled sensibly and deleted one unit it can be hard to counter-attack. If you don't wipe the unit out that Technomancer is popping out 50-60pts of models a turn.

All that being said, they cost somewhere between the price of a C'tan and The Silent King, so I'm not sold on them just yet.

Not that the skorpehks dont look cool, but I never understood why they didnt just make a melee profile for floaty destroyers.

Imagine a squad of 9 flying foward with a destroyer lord and sporting one of the following 2 weapons:

Galvanic Blades- These deadly blades made of the Necrons unique living medal are suffused with a galvanic pulse and paired for deadly effect.
12" Pistol 2 str5 - 1 Every unmodified hit roll of a 6 inflicts 2 additional hits.
- S+1 AP-3 1 Each time you attack using these weapons you get an additional 3 attacks.

Gausse Bhuge- This massive 2 handed polearm has an extremely potent Gausse feild at the end that acts as a disentigration blade.
- S+4 AP-2 3 Each time you attack using these weapons you gain an additional attack for each point of toughness your opponent has over 5

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/forums/show/16.page proposed rules go here.