Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Can you use the Gretchin mob as an effective tarpit if you
have them running within range of a KFF? So you essentially
get some of the old benefits, pay less for the models, and
hopefully have points left over for more assault?

Instead of doing the four foot slogging mobs, for example, you
could have 2 full shootas and 2 full gretchin, and still have more
points (about 200-300 worth) to get trukk boyz or something.

Besides, the thought of painting 120 orks is depressing. At least
with gretchin you break up the tedium.

The thought of painting 120 Orks is depressing, but painting 100 Orks and 40 Gretchin is not? Certainly the Grotz would be more useful than Boyz at soaking up wounds, but they would be easier to pin, to break, and to kill.

Yup!

Leaves room for things like Battlewagons

So the Gretchin force target priority tests, and take extra shots? Hmmm interesting. Might work, hard to say.

Do the math

30 greatchen 3 runtherds 120 points
*no mob rule so it possible to lose one in CC and have then wiped in sweeping Advance
*12 inch guns that are str 3

20 ORKS 120 pts
* toughnes 4 and mob rule
* 18 inch range and str 4 and assault2 makes them far more likely to wound with shooting even with a lower BS
* they aint weedy

So for the same points you can get a unit that is unlikely to be shot at and unlikely to cause any wounds, or you can get 20 shootas which will either draw fire or cause pain to the enemy.

If you're taking grots anyway take 19 grot units they are the most cost effective 19 grots and herd 67 pts, although 11 ahoota's is still better

points sink? yes.

why? see above.

also, they don't provide that nifty cover save anymore, and you have to buy herders for every ten...

At 2/3 the cost of a boy the grotz are a waste of points. Even though they cost a little more, boyz have higher toughness and leadership, so they’re much, much better at protecting your other boyz. When you add the boyz ability to return a little fire and contribute to the assault, the option becomes a no-brainer.

Take grotz because they’re fun, or because they look cool. Don’t take them thinking they have a useful roll to perform.

The only thing Grots can do now is taking objectives. Most opponents would leave them alone unless they have nothing to shoot at.

That's too bad.

Funny that you have to min/max a Gretchin mob to avoid
sinking too many points. Maybe I'll do that and stick him in
front of the Mek with the KFF to give them a little bit of
survivability. 38 Grots, lol. I'll manage a win if my enemy
isn't too busy laughing at me.

Shootas to back them up (also in range of the mek)

And trukks with boyz ready to vomit hand to hand rage
on anything that gets too close.

We ork players want grots to be useful, we really do, but they arent. Just the fact they can be pinned or just take casualties and run can make them a hinderance on the field. Fact is GW screwed up royally making the boyz so much better WHILE nerfing the grots but leaving their cost the same. This will be especially bad for them if they release a new plastic kit for them later this year. The way they run their business I wouldnt be suprised if they were left scratching their heads asking " how come nobody's buying the new grots " ? I might buy one box-only with the intention to stick em all over my vehicles/ork bases/terrain. Decoration is their biggest role now, but I may still scratch build some big guns.

Oh? Will there be a plastic kit?

Neat. If there is, then there's no reason at all preventing
me from doing this...unfortunately.

If I ever end up fielding grots at all in my army it'll be with Big Guns, not in their own squads. As pointed out above it just doesn't seem worth it at all to take them considering what else is out there.

As it is beneficial to max out your big gun squads you end up with your grot horde unit by the back door. Only now you can have three kannon for only 30pts more.
This is the true grot mob in the list.

gunkie wrote:

30 greatchen 3 runtherds 120 points
*no mob rule

Look closer: the runtherd has the Mob rule. Mob rule says, a model with Mob rule can use the unit-size as Ld.
It doesn't say, that the unit must consist of orks.
Ergo: Grethin benefit from Mob-Rule.

FuzzyOrb wrote:

gunkie wrote:

30 greatchen 3 runtherds 120 points
*no mob rule

Look closer: the runtherd has the Mob rule. Mob rule says, a model with Mob rule can use the unit-size as Ld.
It doesn't say, that the unit must consist of orks.
Ergo: Grethin benefit from Mob-Rule.

I don't believe this is correct. Runtherd does have the Mob Rule, but in the English version, The Mob Rule refers specifically to Orks, Orks in a Unit, Boyz, and maybe lads (not models)...there's no mention of Grots or Gretchins. So, the Runtherd could benifit from Mob Rule based on the number of Orks in a Gretchin Unit.

Malf:

I wouldn't take more than a single grot mob. The only thing they're good for is getting a really big unit for super cheap. Just take one big Grot mob of 29 (so you don't have to take the third runtherd).

Just make sure if you get 'em into combat you never do so by themselves, otherwise you stand a real risk of having them all run down when they lose combat and fail their morale check (and the re-roll).


I'm planning on using my Grot mob, just because I have the models and I like 'em. They're certainly not a great unit but you can make 'em work for you if you really want.

Phydox wrote:

FuzzyOrb wrote:

gunkie wrote:

30 greatchen 3 runtherds 120 points
*no mob rule

Look closer: the runtherd has the Mob rule. Mob rule says, a model with Mob rule can use the unit-size as Ld.
It doesn't say, that the unit must consist of orks.
Ergo: Grethin benefit from Mob-Rule.

I don't believe this is correct. Runtherd does have the Mob Rule, but in the English version, The Mob Rule refers specifically to Orks, Orks in a Unit, Boyz, and maybe lads (not models)...there's no mention of Grots or Gretchins. So, the Runtherd could benifit from Mob Rule based on the number of Orks in a Gretchin Unit.

Eww, checked it again, you are right.
It only applies for Ork-mobs.
Sorry, my bad.

Interesting note: There's a pdf making the rounds that is reputedly a play-test version of the 5th edition rules. In those rules you cannot shoot at infantry units through intervening infantry units - no target priority rolls or whatnot. Grotz will make an effective screen for stuff like Lootas, although like in 3rd edition they may just get in the way of the front-line stuff.

Well, protecting lootas maybe won't work that well as friedly units also block LOS .
But you're right, it'll be quite a boost for Gretchin and for the enemy, they will be annoying as hell!

The Lootas don't have to shoot through the Grotz. They just have to be on the other side of the Grotz from stuff they don't want to be shot at by. I was thinking moreso moving cover myself...

yakface wrote:
Malf:

I wouldn't take more than a single grot mob. The only thing they're good for is getting a really big unit for super cheap. Just take one big Grot mob of 29 (so you don't have to take the third runtherd).

Just make sure if you get 'em into combat you never do so by themselves, otherwise you stand a real risk of having them all run down when they lose combat and fail their morale check (and the re-roll).


I'm planning on using my Grot mob, just because I have the models and I like 'em. They're certainly not a great unit but you can make 'em work for you if you really want.

Thanks for that, yak.

@Nurglitch:

Well, that rarely fits into my limited brains for 40k
But your definitely right, the gretchin-horde i have standing here in front of me (all 2nd ed.) really looks like area terrain

I think people forget that for every ten gretchin you get an untargetable ork boy with a poisoned weapon that always wounds on a 4.
seems like that could be a fun suprise for a carnifex or wraithlord.

and I forgot the grabba sticks they have, so thats -3 attacks to the big creature of your choice, and hes not going to be getting past your 105 point grots.

As Nurglitch pointed out, in 5th the Grots may become a useful screen for the Boyz. It's pretty straightfoward to imagine the Grots forming a line in front of more expensive Boyz, and eating lead until the Boyz can charge. If people miss the cover save they used to give, now they give a guaranteed save.

The only issue is that they'll block LOS both ways, which, really, isn't a big deal. Just bring Slugga Boyz. It's not like Orks do their work with shooting anyway.

Phryxis wrote:As Nurglitch pointed out, in 5th the Grots may become a useful screen for the Boyz. It's pretty straightfoward to imagine the Grots forming a line in front of more expensive Boyz, and eating lead until the Boyz can charge. If people miss the cover save they used to give, now they give a guaranteed save.

The only issue is that they'll block LOS both ways, which, really, isn't a big deal. Just bring Slugga Boyz. It's not like Orks do their work with shooting anyway.

If the 5th ed rumors hold true, that won't be an issue.
As long as you're 12"+ away from the enemy, that is.
Your grot unit moves 6" and leaves gaps for the boys to see through.
Boys move 6" and shoot.
Grots "force march" in such a way as to block LOS again.

Rinse. Repeat.

When you're less than 12" away, you Waaagh! and (hopefully) charge.


Eric

Looks like they would be a decent guard for ground bound units like tankbustas and such. Keep them from getting picked apart until they at least get into blastin range of tanks.

Warboss Niblet, that is an excellent IDEA!!!
My bigest problem with my tankbusters is getting into tank killing range without my 10 man unit being shot to peices.
The gretchin screen in 5th edition would be very useful.

Dont overestimate gretchin screen. First it prevents you from firing your rokkits, secondly the gretchin screen screams and runs away. Just lose orks at twice the price instead, its cheaper in the long run, and T4 will save many of those.

personally I only run one unit of 20 gretchin just incase there are some mines which seem to be the latest craze. It would be interesting to see them up against my guard army which doesn't move anyways. lol.

Hmm personally with 5e I'm thinking that Orks will really need high S weapons for anti-tank. I think the best way to get this will be the bike Warboss with PK. In 5e I think the way to go will be to mass Boyz and Stormboyz with dual bike bosses for anti-tank. Hitting against rear armour will make quite a difference I think.