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Yep, no real surprise but new figures for 5th Edition.
Just spoke to a mate of mine who is a GW Manager in the UK and he informs me of two notable releases

1. An all new medium tank which will come in between the predator and landraider
2. Landspeeder transports for scout troops

I've been hearing of a tank for awhile but this is the first time I've heard that it will weigh in between the 2 mentioned above. The landspeeder transports are in line with the new GW approach to marines for 5th edition, which is to make marines more of a strike force than a static army.
It seems games designers want to align marines more with the fluff - small mobile forces that pin point targets, eliminate them, then get the hell out of dodge, leaving clean up for the IG.
Plastic droppods will finally come out to coincide with the new codex.
Also army traits are gone but are instead linked to the force commander ie. take a particular armies force commander who has furious charge, then your army has furious charge, making them XYZ Chapter. This is to encourage players to take force commanders instead/in addition of the chaplian/librarian.

Now before I get the naysayers, this guy is one of my best mates and doesn't speak crap. He's pretty low key. Secondly, a lot of this info comes from one of the play testers, who is a close mate of his. Thirdly, he didn't speak about anything he didn't know about ie the Plantestrike supplement.
- jas

http://www.wargamerau.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=46505&st=0

Found this on the WargamerAU rumor page
Can anyone confirm?
(if this is in the 40+ pages of 5th Ed Rumors - I apologise)

The all-new Tank and Speeder seem kind of odd, as the Rhino & Land Raider have been the backbone of the SM forever.

The rest seems about right.

I can confirm that's what it says on the WargamerAU rumor page

Sounds interesting, we've been wondering what the new SM codex might look like so I'll copy this there.

I don't believe a word of what that guy is saying.

I can't comment on the stuff about traits, the speeder, or the 5th edition "version" of Space Marines, BUT...

I do remember reading in a White Dwarf some fluff about a medium, previously unknown, armoured vehicle that fit between the Predator and Raider. I can't for the life of me find it, but from memory it was a piece about either the history of the Predator or Land Raider.

Maybe this is what they're referring to... to be released ?

Padre.

There's been rumours of the 'missing link' tank since well before 4th was released. I'm pretty skeptical. Of course, the plastic Baneblade was rumoured for just as long, as we did end up seeing it. If IG gets Valkyries, I could see Landspeeder Transports being feasible.

I can also see army traits being linked to a particular special character - they are in Dark Angels and Orks after all. I don't believe that by buying Shrike your entire army gets a free Furious Charge or something though. That sounds exactly like the 3rd ed. Codexes that they've been trying to move away from.

I think that's a bit strange, you'd think that they would do new dark eldar and other armies with old codex's first...

Like the sound of landspeeder transports though...

All this talk of bringing Space Marines closer to the background as an unstoppable strike force is all well and good, but in terms of how they'll actually play in a game, well, so far, it doesn't seem to be working out.

Of course, this is all based on hearsay built of rumors with a foundation of shadows.

BUT, any time someone compares what we'll be getting with anything from a 3rd edition codex?


<<shudder>>

I don't like the idea of a 'missing link' tank. I don't think it is necessary, and, really, it's no where in the fluff. It's like a giant retcon.

The transport however, I love that idea. Not so much because of the Scout angle, but because in The Revisited Project, Inquisitor Stormies can get transport speeders, and this might give us models for them!!!

BYE

ok this is new any leaked pics of these new tank or speeder.
if the valkries goes plastic they could could go in the new ig dex

Asmodai wrote:I can also see army traits being linked to a particular special character - they are in Dark Angels and Orks after all. I don't believe that by buying Shrike your entire army gets a free Furious Charge or something though. That sounds exactly like the 3rd ed. Codexes that they've been trying to move away from.

I can't see how getting termies as troops with a special reserve rule tacked on is different from getting furious charge on all your Spaz Mice (not that I agree with Raven Guard being some kind of soot covered Blood Angels - if anything, there the exact opposite).

I actually like the concept of the "missing link" tank. In that it always irked my that all Space Marine Tanks where Rhino chassis except the Land Raider.

However, I think it is a very bad idea to introduce one, especially now. You already have DA and BA up to "5th Edition" standards, are they going to need a revision? And if so, when will that happen. As a DA player, I would be pretty upset is a new toy came out for my armie, butI can't use until 5 years down the raod when I get another codex. I really hope that part of 5th Edition is a re-release of all the "Post-Eldar" codexes with small updates. Furthermore, Space Marines are the last race that needs another tank. Especially with the lack of diversity of the other races. I think Orks need a proper Battlewagon kit before Space Marines need another tank, that will just be competing with other tanks that are rarely used.

Land Speeder Transport seems like a better idea, but still falls under the "why?" category.

The problem is that this smacks of GW putting themselves into a corner. With so many Space Marine releases since 4th edition, they are running out of new releases to fill out their range. From our perspective, having a fully released range is a good thing, but from GW's perspective, they generate sales by releasing models with new shiny codexes. What happens when there is nothing more to release in a range?

Personally there are many things they could still release for a Space Marine Codex:

Plastic Chaplains or Librarians
Plastic Terminator Characters
Plastic Veterans
Plastic Drop Pod (with Deathwind Option)
Re-cut Tactical Sprue (this time with Heavy Weapons)
Plastic Venerable Dread.
Plastic Land Raider Crusader
New Plastic Land Raider Varient (Preferably the Command Version)
Plastic Thunderhawk
Plastic Land Speeder Tempest
More Special Characters like the Blood Ravens commander, etc.


Plenty of things they could do without resorting to "new" tanks or units.


I can also see "the Special Characters effect armies" come into play. Lysander is fine as he is assuming there is no more Terminator Command Squads (then there will only be a max of three in any army + the heavy weapons reduction to one and no more Vet. Skills), Strike may add a "can take Assault Squads as troops" option. Calgar can bring honor gaurd with him. It would be nice to see the Salamaders Chaplain and maybe the Blood Ravens commander.

it's not unreasonable to expect that White Scars, Raven Guard and Imperial Fists will all be viable codices in the 5th ed Marine Book.

Tacobake wrote:it's not unreasonable to expect that White Scars, Raven Guard and Imperial Fists will all be viable codices in the 5th ed Marine Book.

Is it reasonable to expect GW to be reasonable? I calculate not. I'm sure White Scars, Raven Guard, and Imperial Fists in the new Marine codex will be just as viable as Alpha Legion in the new Chaos codex - i.e. not existing. But then again, these are spase marienz (hurr!) we're talking about so they don't have to follow the same rules as everybody else.

I guess it makes sense for loyalist marienz to get all kinds of vet skills. I mean its not like there 10000 yr old choas marienz afterall - its hard to remember all that stuff when your that old! Spase marienz are super flexable and strategical to so they should have a special rule that lets all their nontroops units count as scoring to. Schweet!

I think the new plastic tank sounds fantastic! Its about time spase marienz got a new tank - there army hardly has any units! I think it should get furious charge too. I also think they should release a new completely redone plastic SM tacticle squad. For no good reason. And they should get Gary Morley to sculpt it so it looks totally pants. This will generate loads of new sales and good times will be had by all. Hurr!

Tacobake wrote:it's not unreasonable to expect that White Scars, Raven Guard and Imperial Fists will all be viable codices in the 5th ed Marine Book.

I don't expect any sublists. Lysander will probably allow Terminators as Troops or some such. Shrike might do the same for Assault Marines. The White Scars dude (Khan?) would do the same for Bikers.

This would be consistent with the heavy emphasis on special characters in recent Codexes.

It'll be interesting to see if there's a rule keeping you from including both Lysander and Shrike in your list.

I'm hoping they somehow keep Cleanse and Purify.

Tacobake wrote:it's not unreasonable to expect that White Scars, Raven Guard and Imperial Fists will all be viable codices in the 5th ed Marine Book.

Sorry to continue the beating of the dead horse, but I fully expect variant Marine chapters (even founding chapters!) to pretty much disappear except as a "color choice".

Asmodai wrote:

Tacobake wrote:it's not unreasonable to expect that White Scars, Raven Guard and Imperial Fists will all be viable codices in the 5th ed Marine Book.

I don't expect any sublists. Lysander will probably allow Terminators as Troops or some such. Shrike might do the same for Assault Marines. The White Scars dude (Khan?) would do the same for Bikers.

This would be consistent with the heavy emphasis on special characters in recent Codexes.

It'll be interesting to see if there's a rule keeping you from including both Lysander and Shrike in your list.

Alpharius wrote:

Tacobake wrote:it's not unreasonable to expect that White Scars, Raven Guard and Imperial Fists will all be viable codices in the 5th ed Marine Book.

Sorry to continue the beating of the dead horse, but I fully expect variant Marine chapters (even founding chapters!) to pretty much disappear except as a "color choice".

What Asmodai said is pretty much what I meant. There will be "Lysander's Terminator Guys", "Shrike's Jump Pack Honour Guard" and "The Khan's Biker Bodyguard of The Emperor".

But after that I would expect pretty much a vanilla codex, with maybe customizable veterans.

I believe it, since they're spaz marienz after all. However, if a rumor of a spase marinzer codex pops up and it doesn't include a special rule that says "all units, including vehicles, count as scoring", don't believe it.

And what's about Salamanders and all the non-streamlined stuff?

Well, maybe the basic space marine unit entry will let you customize your squad cleanse and purify-wise. The recent trend is that you can just build some variant lists with the basic codex (Eldar, Ork and to an extend Chaos (ducks for cover before H.B.M.C. comes in throws with rocks)).

Other than that I call it a roumor, and a highly doubtable one. The 6 (or was it 3?) month window is open pretty wide, don't you think?

Greets
Schepp himself

The idea of adding an intermediate SM Tank out of the continues to bother me for some reason.

Exactly what role would it play? There really aren't any niches that need filling, nor are there any capabilities that the SM lack from a functional competitive standpoint.

To me, the whole thing seems very misguided. You break the DA and BT books outright. You break the "no new techology" Fluff in a huge way. You break visual cohesiveness".

Once SM get their plastic Drop Pods and more Veterans, there isn't anything much more needed. So GW can finally get around to taking care of some of the other ranges that need new plastics, like, say, Guard.

OMFG, this is seriously getting old. I would even venture to say it may be hurting GW. Why dont they give marines thier own separate game. Its seriously annoying.

The rumor of another SM tank has been around for ages.

I seem to recall something about a Sabre? Done back in some CJ or something to that effect.

What sells? Oh you got enough of what sells? Let's make something else for what sells..then.

JohnHwangDD wrote:The idea of adding an intermediate SM Tank out of the continues to bother me for some reason.

Exactly what role would it play? There really aren't any niches that need filling, nor are there any capabilities that the SM lack from a functional competitive standpoint.

To me, the whole thing seems very misguided. You break the DA and BT books outright. You break the "no new techology" Fluff in a huge way. You break visual cohesiveness".

Once SM get their plastic Drop Pods and more Veterans, there isn't anything much more needed. So GW can finally get around to taking care of some of the other ranges that need new plastics, like, say, Guard.

I agree. Those are all good reasons pointing to not having a new SM tank. I'm sure they've discussed the idea, but I think they'd reach the same conclusion that you did. There's plenty of room for new vehicle plastics though - the Land Raider Crusader, the variants for the Landspeeder that have been hybrid since the start of 3rd edition would both be easily and viable choices. I recall GW saying awhile back that they wanted to move away from hybrid metal-plastic kits.

Drop Pods will sell well (I expect them with SW/Planetfall, not Marines though) as will the Thunderhawk. The Empire Wizards kit really showed GW has the technical skill to make a Chaplain/Librarian kit if they want to. I'm not sure about that one though.

A new tank would be moronic. Drop Pods fit the bill.

I think the real problem isn't that SM need a tank in between the Land Raider and the predator but that the Land Raider needs to find a niche. Right now it pays retail for armor, lascannons, and an assault ramp when it can only ever use two of those at a time, and it's armor (in 4th edition) was susceptible to every anti-tank weapon in the game.

An improved damage table, some cover saves, and the LR will be closer to what it should be.

JohnHwangDD wrote:The idea of adding an intermediate SM Tank out of the continues to bother me for some reason.

Exactly what role would it play? There really aren't any niches that need filling, nor are there any capabilities that the SM lack from a functional competitive standpoint.

The role of "SM boxed set to sell that not one single player already has"?

Shoehorning in a marine tank will be a pretty interesting job, then they re write the fluff and say it was there the whole time!

Nah I think the "medium tank" rumour is pretty bogus. Another varient maybe, but I dont see something new just poping up for the hell of it.

The possibility of a plastic drop pod on the other hand is extremely probable, although they will probably nerf them in the new "edition" (or rather addition) so they are 4 years too late on that one.

Asmodai wrote:
Drop Pods will sell well (I expect them with SW/Planetfall, not Marines though) as will the Thunderhawk. The Empire Wizards kit really showed GW has the technical skill to make a Chaplain/Librarian kit if they want to. I'm not sure about that one though.

Also the High Elf Plastic Wizard/Lord kit. Those things are awesome.

So, a plastic Librarian/Chaplain kit would be a nice thing to see for 5th that wouldn't be too much of a drain on what other armies might be able to also get.

So, in short, that would be the kit I'd want.

(Well, OK, plastic drop pods too...)

Ravenous D wrote:Shoehorning in a marine tank will be a pretty interesting job, then they re write the fluff and say it was there the whole time!

It's already been established in the fluff that there are tons of STC designs lost and scattered in the ruins of the future.

It wouldn't be too hard to believe that they discovered a 'lost' STC design and the Adeptus Mechanicus started churning them out.

Acutally, one of the things I find hardest to belive is that an isolated system of humans haven't progressed to TAU levels of technology