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#1 I play O&G and my opponent said that because I had two hand weapons I would not receive my chooppa +1 Str in the first round of combat. Why? Under choppa it says it acts like a hand weapon in all respects except it give a +1 Str bonus in the first round of combat...

#2 my opponent would not let my savage Orc boars have a second attack? I thought that frenzy carried over to the mount does it?

#3 I charged with a block of boyz and barely made it with only 2 of my block getting into close combat...why the hell in subsequent round does the block not shift over to get more people in combat? My opponent said that because I only drew with him they could not move at all. Is this right? Doesn’t say in the rules but logically would not the orcs stampede over themselves to get into combat?

#4 me and my opponent forgot about charge reaction (until I charged him) this cost me my two fast calvery I played on with it but thinking about it now it probably cost me the game should we have went back and allowed me two run away?

#5 my dice hate me can you help me with that?

#6 Anyway this game is leaving me with a sour taste in my mouth there are way too many curves in it, I find myself hating the fact that despite years of gaming experience I totally suck at it.

Anyway I don't want to sound like I'm ragging on my oppenent in anyway he is a cool guy but I'm frustrated with the game and needed to vent.

Sorry to hear you had a crappy game K&K, it sounds like you're suffering from some bad luck mostly and not a weak army (which we can help out with). Then again, you did get kinda screwed on those rules "calls" ...

1) He's thinking about the old choppa rules, AFAIK new choppas combine with shields and additional hand weapons as normal but give you +1S in the first round. Simple as that.

2) The mounts are frenzied too, another change from 6th ed. Only Khorne mounts are specifically NOT frenzied, and that's in the mark's entry.

3) I honestly wouldn't know, as I play 'electric slide' to maximize combatants and avoid clipping. I know when a unit engaged in the flank wins combat it can turn to bring its front into base with the enemy, but forget if this extends to any other kind of movement within combat.

4) Usually when I remember a rule mid game I lament my stupidity and gnash my teeth but continue playing. Just remember to play it right from then on

5) Not at all! Luck does like to kick me in the nuts in fantasy too, where there are so few rolls and they can mean so much.

6) I say keep at it, fantasy games can go TU with just 1 bad roll but can also swing back in your favor with 1 swing the other way. I agree that losing can get old fast - my skaven are at a 4 game losing streak, and so I've been playing my ogres and getting mixed results. Some wins, some loses, some ties but has refreshed me and got me wanting to play more.

If you need specific stragetic help, I'm sure other Dakka folk can step up and give you a hand.

- Salvage

You may only move during a combat if you with the combat, and the move brings more people into the combat. that said, you sould get a "Free Wheel" at the end of your charge to bring more into Hand To Hand, and most players should and will allow you to slide in to avoid clipping, because most of the time people try to clip as a dirty trick. not saying you did, but it's been known to happen.

What is a combate?

I have no Idea what you mean.

I've heard of a combat, but never a combate.

Ah, I see you have used the handy edit feature. Good on you!

@Boss, thanks for your truly helpfull comments

@Arion, I was not trying to clip I allmost did not make the charge. (very narrowly did)

@fellblade, try to keep on topic

The best way to play fantasy is by not playing within the rigid game designed for simpletons.

I play 40K Fantasy.

Shoot, Magic, Shoot, Magic, Win.

'Normal' fantasy players won't play me anymore.

It amuses me greatly.

Yeah Krom, looks like whoever you were playing isn't all the up on 7th. Also, the charging rules dictate that you need to maximize contact and even go so far as to suggest shifting units! In that spirit, sliding units to maximize contact seems fairly common.

Stelek: So do you play lizards, wood elves, or dark elves? ;-) Dragons do tend to put a dent in that style, though, as do VC, it seems....

jmurph wrote:Yeah Krom, looks like whoever you were playing isn't all the up on 7th. Also, the charging rules dictate that you need to maximize contact and even go so far as to suggest shifting units! In that spirit, sliding units to maximize contact seems fairly common.

So in the spirit of the game I should slide my units so that my front rank is in combat with as many of his as possable. Thanks, if this is how it's done.... I shall get'er done!

You should take a look at the GW Warhammer FAQ. It contains a section on the spirit of combat vs. clipping that you and your opponents might be interested in discussing.

3) It's not in the "spirit" of the game at all, it's in the rules. Page 21 of the small rule book, title "Aligning the Combatants" "Once the charging unit is in contact, it is automatically aligned against it enemy to form a battle line (See Diagram 22.1)"

Oh, and the key to getting your way in rule arguements is to always have your own rulebook nearby.

Angron, p 21 does not require "sliding". See the figure on page 22 for what "Aligning the chargers" means. Then read the linked FAQ/article for explicit statements to the effect that sliding isn't mandatory, and clipping is entirely legal:

...if you want to play literally by the rules, you have to live with the clipping and continue with the game.

Whether to clip or to slide is a question best resolved between players (or at the tournament organizer level) before the game begins.

jmurph wrote:Yeah Krom, looks like whoever you were playing isn't all the up on 7th.

Exactly. We are playing to help him learn the rules and to update myself on the newest edition. I only seriously played in 4th, mostly kept track with 5th, mostly missed 6th and now back in 7th.

K&K: No worries! Everything we find helps get us both on the right track. I'm glad that some of the things I remember/saw were from older editions. I have shorted myself with my limited knowledge of 7th as well, so it's beneficial for us both to get in these situations and raise the questions, espescially during a friendly game rather than a leage or tournament.

Another situation we wern't sure about also occured: Cavalry charges a unit of 10 in single rank row. The cav start completly in the flank arc. When they charge do they engage the single lone model at the end of the file? Or do they swing around and lose their "flank" charge to engage the models on the front? When we looked in the book it said if they start in the flank they charge in the flank.

Can any experienced tourney goers post how unintentional clipping(that is clipping that occurs becasue that is all the squad could reach with their charge movement) is usually handled at tournaments, or lacking that how it is handled in your LGS's? I'm not opposed to the slide, but if they do it differently at tournaments I don't want to play it one way and then be surprised and have no experience. The way I understood the rules in the 7th book was that you wheel to allow as many combatants to enter the fight and then move in. If this leaves unengaed models, it looks like the only way to expand frontage is to win the fight and get the free reform. If I'm wrong on this please correct me.


Meph

Mephistoles1 wrote:Another situation we wern't sure about also occured: Cavalry charges a unit of 10 in single rank row. The cav start completly in the flank arc. When they charge do they engage the single lone model at the end of the file? Or do they swing around and lose their "flank" charge to engage the models on the front? When we looked in the book it said if they start in the flank they charge in the flank.

The cav hit the unit in the flank and line up with just the 1 model and get attaks accordingly.

- Salvage

Can any experienced tourney goers post how unintentional clipping(that is clipping that occurs becasue that is all the squad could reach with their charge movement) is usually handled at tournaments, or lacking that how it is handled in your LGS's? I'm not opposed to the slide, but if they do it differently at tournaments I don't want to play it one way and then be surprised and have no experience. The way I understood the rules in the 7th book was that you wheel to allow as many combatants to enter the fight and then move in. If this leaves unengaed models, it looks like the only way to expand frontage is to win the fight and get the free reform. If I'm wrong on this please correct me.

By the rules, clippling occurs. Such is life - you get a "free" wheel when you make contact with the enemy to bring the front of your unit in contact with his, but there's no sliding.

I don't know if there's a "generally accepted" tournament approach. I do know that Adepticon requires sliding, unless both players agree to use clipping. I'd check with your FLGS, and see how they conduct their tournaments, or at least how other local players handle it, and proceed accordingly.

Boss_Salvage wrote:[The cav hit the unit in the flank and line up with just the 1 model and get attaks accordingly.

- Salvage

Would you not line up with two models becouse you have to base with as many as possable?

x=cav base

O
O= foe base
O

xO
O
xO

@Meph, I totaly agree with you, Everything we find helps get us both on the right track. like I siad I did not feel slighted by you in anyway, allthough next time my choppas work....lol.

I ... really don't understand your diagram. Try this one:



So 3 knights get to fight, and the 1 orc strikes back if the knights kill 0.

- Salvage

Or, in the case of a unit on 20mm bases, you would indeed get two cav models on a single infantryman.

Thanks for the replys! Looks like our LGS does the sliding as well so now we know how it works in our area.

Incidentlly, K&K and I got in a few games today ... he smashed up a high elf player but still struggled with the dwarf gun lines(one of them mine). Thanks to all for your help in getting us caught up on most of our rough spots.

@K&K: Keep at it, you are really getting a feel for your list and I think a few more games down the road and you will be getting your name in some dwarf gurdge books.

Next Time we match up I'll bring some Panzee Dark Elves so you can get in a game against an army that moves around.

Meph

The way we play alignment in combat universally at tourney in Oz is:

1: The charge must be used to get as many models into combat as possible (the maximisation) when you 'touch the unit, the charging unit aligns (different when you charge skirmishers as they rank to you) and this is the free 'wheel' BUT if only one model can touch when use the maximal charge, then that is all that makes it.... if that makes sense.

yeah I'm geting better the highelf player crumbled before the might of the orks, Dwarf gun lines are real hard for me at least it was not a masacer though...lol

1: The charge must be used to get as many models into combat as possible (the maximisation) when you 'touch the unit, the charging unit aligns (different when you charge skirmishers as they rank to you) and this is the free 'wheel' BUT if only one model can touch when use the maximal charge, then that is all that makes it.... if that makes sense.

So, you use clipping, so long as it is the result of movement limitations?

There are unfortunately some situations in which clipping cannot be avoided. I'm not of the mindset that the combat should be aligned, however. Fantasy is like (American) football in that it gets played pretty loose until it comes down to that critical 1/4" that will decide range for a charge or something else, then you end up splitting hairs. Clipping happens. Don't do it on purpose and the impact on your games will be minimal.