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Pipboy101 wrote:What I would fix is making all Tau BS 5. That is it.

I disagree, BS 5 is simply too high. BS 4 is a bit more realistic, but i do think that all mechanized units (e.g. battlesuits, drones, vehicles, etc.) should come with a free integrated targeting array, making them BS 5.

I also feel that the battlesuits should get a T5 because advanced alien armor, hydraulics, and circuitry would allow them to withstand a hit that would cripple anything else.


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agnosto wrote:

There are not enough low AP weapons for an army that is entirely focused on shooting the enemy. You would think that if all they do is shoot, they would have some advanced infantry weapons to show for it. Maybe allowing squad leaders to have rail rifles or something like mobile heavy weapons platforms like eldar or IG. If IG can have platform las cannons, why can't the tau have platform railguns?

I would have to disagree on this point mainly because tau doctrine states that undedicated infantry squads cannot carry heavy weaponry. Though I do think that a new, less-costly-than-a-Broadside platform railgun unit would be a good addition to the tau arsenal.

For a shooty army, Tau do not seem to do it very well. I get marker drones but making an entire army dependant upon something that must be purchased seems a bit wrong. Possibly include a marker drone with each full squade of FW or just up their BS to 4. One possible addendum would be to allow pulse rifles to rapid fire at half-range instead of the rule-based 12" since the rule seems to be based on the average 24" range.

I've thought about this many times and agree wholeheartedly. Tau suck at shooting, and they don't even get a lot of shots to make up for it like IG do, which I think is just unfair.

Also, I like the idea of pulse rifles being able to rapid fire at 1/2 range instead of the standard 12", simply for the fact that the way Tau pulse weapons work, they would not have a lot of recoil, so, it would be easier to keep a stream of rapid, accurate fire.

I am also not fond of marker drones mainly because they are expensive, and tha Tau rely too heavily on them. I think that they need to be completely overhauled.

The leadership of the army is not really in keeping with the fluff. Why is their LD so low when they all follow "the greater good", the concept of group over individual. I would recommend a new rule called "stand and fight" (if one doesn't already exist). If tau are charged in hth, they get a bonus to leadership or ignore penalties from losses as their diehard spirit won't allow them to run off and leave their brethren to fight alone.

I like that idea, Tau would not be the kind of warriors that would take a casualty and leave their comrades to face the same fate. It just doesn't coincide with the Greater Good.

Troop choices are severely limited. FWs are just too vanilla and need some options instead of just with grenade or without grenade.

Troop choices for Tau are very limited, but they also have quite a bit of flexibility within themselves. (e.g. Pulse Rifles/Pulse Carbines) But I do not like how the kroot are set up; they need smaller, cheaper squads for their efficiency and they're just a pain to field because the only thing they're good for as they are set up right now is being expensive meat shields... Kroot need a boost.

I do have more to say on your topics, agnosto, but time does not permit me to address those at the moment. Consider my opinions.

ZacktheChaosChild wrote:Here's a suggestion, some flamers....

then they won't hang like a testicle out in the back and wait for the nids to pour into their faces...

tau vs. nids = sad tau player...

i agree that tau need more flamers, my suggesting is allowing stealth suits to take them.

although, if you are having trouble with nids, you have more problems than flamers. markerlights and pulse rifles > nids.

1337m45747r0y wrote:

Pipboy101 wrote:What I would fix is making all Tau BS 5. That is it.

I disagree, BS 5 is simply too high. BS 4 is a bit more realistic, but i do think that all mechanized units (e.g. battlesuits, drones, vehicles, etc.) should come with a free integrated targeting array, making them BS 5.

and how much of a point increase are we looking for for this? because if you want to give it to us free, well, then tau will be omgwtfbbq overpowered. bs4 s5 shots for 10 ppm?!

1337m45747r0y wrote:

I also feel that the battlesuits should get a T5 because advanced alien armor, hydraulics, and circuitry would allow them to withstand a hit that would cripple anything else.

this i think a more reasonable idea would be making battlesuits T 5(4) they should still get instadeath to s8 rather than being a straight T5. maybe let broadsides be a straight t5 because they are designed to be more sturdy but that may be a little broken.

1337m45747r0y wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:

agnosto wrote:

There are not enough low AP weapons for an army that is entirely focused on shooting the enemy. You would think that if all they do is shoot, they would have some advanced infantry weapons to show for it. Maybe allowing squad leaders to have rail rifles or something like mobile heavy weapons platforms like eldar or IG. If IG can have platform las cannons, why can't the tau have platform railguns?

I would have to disagree on this point mainly because tau doctrine states that undedicated infantry squads cannot carry heavy weaponry. Though I do think that a new, less-costly-than-a-Broadside platform railgun unit would be a good addition to the tau arsenal.

I think the idea of making broadsides cheaper is a bad way to fix the real problems tau have with their codex. 200pts for 2 broadsides and 2 shield drones, that is a fully complex unit with each broadside able to fire at different targets is eminently reasonable.

1337m45747r0y wrote:

For a shooty army, Tau do not seem to do it very well. I get marker drones but making an entire army dependant upon something that must be purchased seems a bit wrong. Possibly include a marker drone with each full squade of FW or just up their BS to 4. One possible addendum would be to allow pulse rifles to rapid fire at half-range instead of the rule-based 12" since the rule seems to be based on the average 24" range.

I've thought about this many times and agree wholeheartedly. Tau suck at shooting, and they don't even get a lot of shots to make up for it like IG do, which I think is just unfair.

if you think tau suck at shooting your doing it wrong. they may not hit particularly well but s5 gun on the basic trooper is amazing. and then you add marker-lights, and well, you have a formidable shooting force. this is not to say they are perfect, or that they don't need serious changes, but when talking about these changes we need to be honest in the true strenghts and weaknesses of current tau.

1337m45747r0y wrote:
Also, I like the idea of pulse rifles being able to rapid fire at 1/2 range instead of the standard 12", simply for the fact that the way Tau pulse weapons work, they would not have a lot of recoil, so, it would be easier to keep a stream of rapid, accurate fire.

I agree, here I would also like to add the idea of defensive weapons on vehicles being s5 for tau. and let you destroy gun-drones when a vehicle is destroyed instead of having to take them off to form their own unit for kill point missions.

1337m45747r0y wrote:
I am also not fond of marker drones mainly because they are expensive, and tha Tau rely too heavily on them. I think that they need to be completely overhauled.

try taking pathfinders instead.

1337m45747r0y wrote:

The leadership of the army is not really in keeping with the fluff. Why is their LD so low when they all follow "the greater good", the concept of group over individual. I would recommend a new rule called "stand and fight" (if one doesn't already exist). If tau are charged in hth, they get a bonus to leadership or ignore penalties from losses as their diehard spirit won't allow them to run off and leave their brethren to fight alone.

I like that idea, Tau would not be the kind of warriors that would take a casualty and leave their comrades to face the same fate. It just doesn't coincide with the Greater Good.

oh god oh god please no. please think about the implications of a rule change before you suggest it. when a tau unit is assaulted and you lose the close combat (as you will) you WANT that unit to break, even if they are slaughtered in the initiative roll off. why? because then, in your next turn, you can shoot the gak out of the unit that assaulted you with the rest of your army!!!

now yes, tau have leadership problems, but those are most evident in the SHOOTING phase. make it so drones dont count towards unit size for ld checks again, make tau get to re-roll the ld checks due to casualties by shooting, or something.

1337m45747r0y wrote:

Troop choices are severely limited. FWs are just too vanilla and need some options instead of just with grenade or without grenade.

Troop choices for Tau are very limited, but they also have quite a bit of flexibility within themselves. (e.g. Pulse Rifles/Pulse Carbines) But I do not like how the kroot are set up; they need smaller, cheaper squads for their efficiency and they're just a pain to field because the only thing they're good for as they are set up right now is being expensive meat shields... Kroot need a boost.

I do have more to say on your topics, agnosto, but time does not permit me to address those at the moment. Consider my opinions.

kroot are pretty good. 11 kroot and 10 kroot hounds is a pretty decent unit in H2H,and kroot are CHEAP. not to say they are perfect, but again, know what the current codex is and the strengths of it before you just make up ideas and plans for the next one.

Ok, more ideas, most of which have a certain degree of bias on my part. I'm still avoiding doing point costs because I'm terrible at it.

1. Add in other suit variants for the commander, and his bodyguard gains bonuses based on which it is. Balance/proper point adjustments still needed.
XV-81 commander > retinue can upgrade to TL-missile pod at no extra cost, and may still take 2 additional upgrades.
XV-84 commander > retinue gains target lock at full cost, but can still take all other upgrades.
XV-89 commander > retinue gains iridium armor at full cost, still can take all other upgrades.

2. Give Farsight armies the ability to field 0-2 watered-down crisis suit teams, as long as the compulsory troop number has been met . These would have the same stat line as normal suits, except they would have limited options as far as weaponry goes. 2 weapons/support systems, team leader only has a few options available to him. Now I do realize this would allow a Farsight army to theoretically field 26 crisis suits in a normal game... its just my little dream of mega Farsight bomb.

3. Repair drones!!! Basically have a weaponless tau "tech priest" drone. These would do the same repair stuff on vehicles, but also maybe be able to repair "damaged" battlesuits and other drones. Real squishy, same stat line as gun drone, minus the whole... gun part.

4. Playing off others' idea to make tau combat doctrines, I've thought about how the two methods of hunter cadres operate. All bonuses assumed to only affect tau units, not auxiliaries or drones.
---Mont'Ka (XX points) > allows an upgrade for crisis suit weapons to be "twin" rather than "twin-linked." Fire warrior teams who have a shas'ui can get an upgrade which allows them to move then shoot full 30". Allows some weapons (not sure which, don't want to make too broken) to re-roll failed wounds in shooting. Some hindrances to this to make it not all "I have this therefore I win."
--Kayun (XX points) > when a squad takes a transport, they can get a scout move. All tau units can outflank. Stealthsuits are 0-2 troop choices as long as compulsory has been met already. Stealthsuits have upgrade available to make stealth field 2d6x2 (or something similar, make them stealthier) and can make opponent re-roll check in night-fighting conditions. Devilfish attached to pathfinders have stealth fields.

Hmm... that's it again. I'll probably post some more things that I feel could return Tau's niche to the game.

I'm not sure if this has been suggested yet but I was thinking that maybe making certain kinds of drones really cheap and non-scoring troops choices. I know most tau players have buckets of drones that they don't use and I think this would be a good way to get them fielded more. The idea somewhat stems from the concept of scarab swarms except it would be a large group of drones. Cheap and an effective speed-bump for Tau in their quest to avoid CC.

I don't know how it fits into the fluff or anything like that but it might be another way to get a few of the coveted marker lights for upgrades. Maybe some kind of rule like AI Hive mind for them would let them have something like stubborn, the idea being that through collective computation they can decide the best course of action based on changing battle field conditions.

I don't have a tau codex but I think it would be pretty cool to have a bunch of drones actually be semi-useful and effective as throw away units and speed-bumps. Maybe something like 6-8 pts apiece and they are able to maintain the hive mine when 5 models and above.

I think fixing Tau just comes down to making their units cheaper and more effective. Giving Fire Warriors heavy weapons (maybe in the form of heavy drones) and suits more weapon option etc... Then making Ion Cannons etc. more effective and BAM! Competitive.

Such upgrades could be a Hit and Run where the squad sacrifices drones to help them get away or shoot "difficult terrain bombs" onto things to make them slower.

Well whenever GW does redo thier codex, I would love to see a Farsight Enclave Army list.

Now that would be cool, make it so they cant take any Zeno's (spelling) and maybe an elite FW unit with an increased BS or something like that. There's a lot you can do with them but the biggest problem is they stick to their market and whats big, which is fine and that's how they are going to make money quicker, but still I would like some news or something to let me know that GW is working on tweaking the Codex somehow.