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Made in us
Hurr! Ogryn Bone 'Ead!





Les, I bow to your superior knowledge and skills. I've been educated. Looks like you can teach a greybeard new tricks.

The Emperor loves me,
This I know,
For the Codex
Tells me so....

http://fallout15mm.wordpress.com/ 
   
Made in pl
Fresh-Faced New User




First of all, I'd like to say hi, as this is my first post here!

I plan to make my own washes basing on Les' recipes, but instead of Daler Rowney inks I think about using Vallejo Game Color inks I have. Do you think this would work?
   
Made in us
Excellent Exalted Champion of Chaos






Lake Forest, California, South Orange County

AFAIK the Vallejo inks are the same acrylics as the D-R ones, but you are spending more money per drop than if you bought the D-R or Liquitex inks.

"Bryan always said that if the studio ever had to mix with the manufacturing and sales part of the business it would destroy the studio. And I have to say – he wasn’t wrong there! ... It’s become the promotions department of a toy company." -- Rick Priestly
 
   
Made in pl
Fresh-Faced New User




Thank you for your answer.
I already have a few vallejo inks and don't use them very often so making washes from them instead of buying D-R inks is a money saver for me
   
Made in ar
Veteran Wolf Guard Squad Leader





Princedom of Buenos Aires

Well, with importations closed and inhability to buy online, I'd love if someone took the time to post here the active principles on both the flow aid and matte medium please.

Since google fails me on a local search and I have no idea how these products are called in my language, I'd rather go to art stores and read labels.

   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






Scyzantine Empire

The flow aid breaks surface tension, allowing the fluid to seep off the larger surfaces and into cracks and crevices. Matte Medium enhances transparency, diluting the pigment load of the solution to prevent complete coverage except where concentrated (again, in the cracks and crevices).

Google Translate wrote:Flow Aid: el flujo de la ayuda
Matte Medium: mate a medio


Check Dick Blick Art Supply, they carry Liquitex items and ship internationally.

Edit: those translations are to Spanish, I just realized that you might be speaking Portuguese, sorry:

Google Translate wrote:Flow Aid: Ajuda fluxo
Matte Medium: matte médio

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/04/05 16:20:26


What harm can it do to find out? It's a question that left bruises down the centuries, even more than "It can't hurt if I only take one" and "It's all right if you only do it standing up." Terry Pratchett, Making Money

"Can a magician kill a man by magic?" Lord Wellington asked Strange. Strange frowned. He seemed to dislike the question. "I suppose a magician might," he admitted, "but a gentleman never could." Susanna Clarke Jonathan Strange & Mr. Norrell

DA:70+S+G+M++B++I++Pw40k94-D+++A+++/mWD160R++T(m)DM+

 
   
Made in ar
Veteran Wolf Guard Squad Leader





Princedom of Buenos Aires

I speak Spanish and I really thank the effort, but google translate... well... I'd throw lots of promethium at it.

And as I said, importations are closed and for particulars, huge taxes are being applied (for instance, if I now bought a Codex, I'd have to pay $65 USD to liberate it).

That's why I asked for the active principles (or components) to look for the stuff at stores here.

   
Made in us
Secretive Dark Angels Veteran





Houston, TX

Any idea on how long I can keep my ink bottles? (DR and Vallejo?) It seems like it will take me a long time to go through them all.

Also, any recipe for Devlan Mud and Badab Black alternative? (now that I can no longer buy these)
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






Scyzantine Empire

The heavy body black wash is pretty close to Badab Black, but is more satin. For Devlan Mud, I've found a 3:1 Black:Burnt Umber mix is pretty close - I think Les calls it Sewer Water. Armor Wash made with Sepia and Black is pretty nice too.

EDIT: Seven to ten years shelf life for most acrylic inks, according to THIS WEBSITE

@Dark: Sorry for the Google Translate. I checked with the Spanish bilinguals that I work with and they let me know that it's pretty accurate for these terms.

As far as an alternative to these items, you're going to have a hard time. You can substitute Flow Aid by using distilled water and liquid soap. I'm not sure on the ratio, but I'm guessing no less than 100 parts water to1 part soap would do it. There should be almost no lasting bubbles when you mix it - just enough soap to break the surface tension.

You could try acrylic floor polish as an alternative to Matte Medium, but it really doesn't work the same way. Future is the brand available in the US, I'm not sure what it would be called in your area.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/04/05 19:21:22


What harm can it do to find out? It's a question that left bruises down the centuries, even more than "It can't hurt if I only take one" and "It's all right if you only do it standing up." Terry Pratchett, Making Money

"Can a magician kill a man by magic?" Lord Wellington asked Strange. Strange frowned. He seemed to dislike the question. "I suppose a magician might," he admitted, "but a gentleman never could." Susanna Clarke Jonathan Strange & Mr. Norrell

DA:70+S+G+M++B++I++Pw40k94-D+++A+++/mWD160R++T(m)DM+

 
   
Made in us
Secretive Dark Angels Veteran





Houston, TX

Thanks Gavin.

I have Matte Medium, FlowAid, Black Ink, Burnt Umber Ink. I just don't know the recipe for something along the line of Badab Black and Devlan Mud.

Hopefully I will be able to try this out soon enough.
   
Made in us
Boosting Black Templar Biker




CT

Try page 1 of this thread. All of the recipes are right there. heavy Body or Soft Body Black and Armor Wash are what your looking for.

On a Side note I've been playing with using the Windsor Newton Artist Acrylic Matte Medium instead of the liquitex and I've found that its actually better for two reasons: First it dries to a considerably more matte finish than liquitex, in fact its matte level is equal to liquitex ultra matte medium. Second reason is It does not separate the same way liqiutex does so its way easier to remix with just a quick shake. It seems to not settle to the bottom into a thick layer. If anyone has tried this alternative please let share your experience.

 
   
Made in us
Secretive Dark Angels Veteran





Houston, TX

Liquitex Matte Medium settles to the bottom in a mix?
   
Made in us
Excellent Exalted Champion of Chaos






Lake Forest, California, South Orange County

The ink is what settles to the bottom. A bit of vigorous shaking fixes that.

"Bryan always said that if the studio ever had to mix with the manufacturing and sales part of the business it would destroy the studio. And I have to say – he wasn’t wrong there! ... It’s become the promotions department of a toy company." -- Rick Priestly
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






Scyzantine Empire

Les' recipe is definitely a thicker consistency than the GW washes, requiring a more vigorous shaking to mix completely. I think his recipe could use a little more Flow Aid, but I haven't messed with the proportions so YMMV.

What harm can it do to find out? It's a question that left bruises down the centuries, even more than "It can't hurt if I only take one" and "It's all right if you only do it standing up." Terry Pratchett, Making Money

"Can a magician kill a man by magic?" Lord Wellington asked Strange. Strange frowned. He seemed to dislike the question. "I suppose a magician might," he admitted, "but a gentleman never could." Susanna Clarke Jonathan Strange & Mr. Norrell

DA:70+S+G+M++B++I++Pw40k94-D+++A+++/mWD160R++T(m)DM+

 
   
Made in us
Boosting Black Templar Biker




CT

Aerethan wrote:The ink is what settles to the bottom. A bit of vigorous shaking fixes that.


Yeah i can tell the difference between medium and ink and it's definitively not the ink. I'm looking at a bottle of dark sepia and I can clearly see the water, then the ink and at the bottom a good amount of the medium has settled. Its a much lighter color than the rest and it takes a lot of shaking to break up.

I did notice that the WN mix did separate as well but the medium is above the water and there's no ink level at all. It remixed after a couple of gentle shakes so there's definitely something different about the Windsor Newton medium. Anyway think i'm going to stick with the WN for now.

 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






Scyzantine Empire

Stick a plastic or glass bead in your bottle the next time you get around to it. Makes a huge difference in how quick it mixes up.

What harm can it do to find out? It's a question that left bruises down the centuries, even more than "It can't hurt if I only take one" and "It's all right if you only do it standing up." Terry Pratchett, Making Money

"Can a magician kill a man by magic?" Lord Wellington asked Strange. Strange frowned. He seemed to dislike the question. "I suppose a magician might," he admitted, "but a gentleman never could." Susanna Clarke Jonathan Strange & Mr. Norrell

DA:70+S+G+M++B++I++Pw40k94-D+++A+++/mWD160R++T(m)DM+

 
   
Made in us
Excellent Exalted Champion of Chaos






Lake Forest, California, South Orange County

heavybolter wrote:
Aerethan wrote:The ink is what settles to the bottom. A bit of vigorous shaking fixes that.


Yeah i can tell the difference between medium and ink and it's definitively not the ink. I'm looking at a bottle of dark sepia and I can clearly see the water, then the ink and at the bottom a good amount of the medium has settled. Its a much lighter color than the rest and it takes a lot of shaking to break up.

I did notice that the WN mix did separate as well but the medium is above the water and there's no ink level at all. It remixed after a couple of gentle shakes so there's definitely something different about the Windsor Newton medium. Anyway think i'm going to stick with the WN for now.


So I've replicated the issue you are talking about with the medium settling to the bottom. Are you using Ultra Matte? My regular matte medium didn't settle like this, but Liquitex Ultra Matte medium has. I added some lava rock beads to the droppers which makes mixing them up much easier.

"Bryan always said that if the studio ever had to mix with the manufacturing and sales part of the business it would destroy the studio. And I have to say – he wasn’t wrong there! ... It’s become the promotions department of a toy company." -- Rick Priestly
 
   
Made in us
Boosting Black Templar Biker




CT

I use both ultra and matte and I see it on both. I've always used glass beads as agitators and yes it does help but it still takes alot of shaking to remix it if it's been sitting for a long time. I'm still finding that the bottle of dark sepia I mixed using the Windsor newton medium remixes much more easily, a few quick shakes and all the medium ( which settles on the top of this bottle) mixes right back in. I still say its a better medium so far. I recently used it on some liquid gold detailing and it flowed and dried so much smoother than the liquitex blend.

 
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




So I tried this last night but can't get the Devlan Mud straight. I get a brownish tone (using Sepia and Black) that is a tad greener than Devlan Mud, but never the reddish brown of Devlan Mud, did anybody have luck with this? Using Burnt Umber did actually work worse. Not a huge deal, once I start using that on all models it should not be an issue. Another problem I had is that my wash did not stick well, rather ran down straight creases. Is that an issue of too much flow aid, or too little matte medium?

Did anybody come up with some nice recipes they'd like to share? I am so far pretty happy with the stuff I made, even if not an exact match. Thanks Les!
   
Made in us
Slippery Scout Biker





Tempest

Id love to see a video from you on highlights



Nocturne's Sons: w/d/l 4/3/6




Thunder Lords 18/12/5
 
   
Made in ar
Veteran Wolf Guard Squad Leader





Princedom of Buenos Aires

Well, not finding the specifics, I decided to try out gak ahd here are my results.



Matte barnish that's also a dillutant.



Glazing medium.

I mixed them on a 1:1 proportion in a 50cc container, then I added 26 drops of Windsor & Newton black ink (which I had since I use it to ink comic books and illustrations).

The result was good and I liked it, it's a tiny bit darker than my Badab Black, but works well for me.



My mix is on the left, Citadel's on the right. Now I've got me some W&N Nut Brown to see if I can get something similar to Devlan Mud.

Now, the important thing (I'll use my own currency, so everyone make their equivalences:

1ml of my mix = $0.15
1ml of Citadel = $2

Even if not exact, the costs makes it a winner.

EDIT: brown wash not too different from Devland Mud neede 45 drops of W&N Walnut Brown and 5 drops of Indian Black

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/05/12 00:44:27


   
Made in gb
Land Raider Pilot on Cruise Control





Twickenham, London

Seriously impressed with the recipe, been playing around with them all morning. Only photographed one though.

40 drops Payne's Grey


These washes just feel so much better than GW ones and it's such a comfort to know that I can just make a new one in about 2 minutes when I run out. Will be experimenting some more shortly!

Kudos and thanks Les!

"If you don't have Funzo, you're nothin'!"
"I'm cancelling you out of shame, like my subscription to white dwarf"
Never use a long word where a short one will do. 
   
Made in de
Fresh-Faced New User





Hi, I'm from germany and translated your recipe into german. I found all you used in a german internet shop, so I could make it possible that every german painter could get the correct materials.

I have some questions...

1. can I use your pictures directly in the forums where I'm registrated?
2. does anyone have devlan mud and other GW washes and could show the differences between Les Recipes and GW versions?
3. do you have pictures of the dirty washes used on a miniature?
   
Made in us
Boosting Black Templar Biker




CT

I made a half oz bottle of ultra soft body black using only 10 drops of black ink and it worked incredibly well washed over silver model air on grey knights.

 
   
Made in us
Excellent Exalted Champion of Chaos






Lake Forest, California, South Orange County

Soft body black is probably the most versatile one you can make as it shades most things perfectly, especially armor.

Heavy body black is best when you need to shade down the entire tone of the base color.

"Bryan always said that if the studio ever had to mix with the manufacturing and sales part of the business it would destroy the studio. And I have to say – he wasn’t wrong there! ... It’s become the promotions department of a toy company." -- Rick Priestly
 
   
Made in de
Fresh-Faced New User





One of the paints I want to make is something like the vallejo pale wash, because I heard it is perfect for washing the color white. I was not sure if I will get a grey ink for it or try Soft Body Black, because it should work, too. I ordered yesterday the inks from England, so I need 2 weeks until I get them.
   
Made in us
Painting Within the Lines





Riverside, CA.

Made me some black as well for a test run, works awesome!

Just wanted to say thanks and to keep up the good work.


-Joe


My WIP painting page on facebook
HERE 
   
Made in us
Gargantuan Gargant





New Bedford, MA USA

I'm going to have to give this a try.

It seems like a no brainer once it's been explained, but I would have never come up with it on my own.

   
Made in us
Kabalite Conscript




Phoenix, AZ

I'm assuming glazes could be made with this recipe using glaze medium instead of matte medium?
   
Made in us
Excellent Exalted Champion of Chaos






Lake Forest, California, South Orange County

In theory, but you'd likely have to come up with your own recipes as I doubt the 1:1 mix here would work in every case.

These recipes shown here do work with ultra matte medium, if you find that regular matte is still too shiny.

"Bryan always said that if the studio ever had to mix with the manufacturing and sales part of the business it would destroy the studio. And I have to say – he wasn’t wrong there! ... It’s become the promotions department of a toy company." -- Rick Priestly
 
   
 
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