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Made in us
Excellent Exalted Champion of Chaos






Lake Forest, California, South Orange County

eimaj wrote:Which ink color are you guys using to match Ogryn Flesh and Delvan Mud? I've tried a couple of different colors, but none seem close. Thoughts?


devlan mud is a very heavy sepia. In a .5oz bottle I used about 60 drops of sepia ink to get it the shade I wanted. Keep in mind that it won't be a 1:1 match as GW washes are very matte and cover more like glazes.

"Bryan always said that if the studio ever had to mix with the manufacturing and sales part of the business it would destroy the studio. And I have to say – he wasn’t wrong there! ... It’s become the promotions department of a toy company." -- Rick Priestly
 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





Los Angeles

Les,

I understand the argument that mixing the (individually approved) components might theoretically start a nuclear chain reaction and that is a fight you're not going to win.

Why not put together a kit? Include everything except the distilled water (i'm sure everyone could locate that). If you're buying everything in quantity (especially the stuff that others may find hard to source), it seems to me that you would have plenty of potential customers.

I'll commit to one now!

Simon

DR:60-S+GM+B+IPw40k96#-D++A+/fWD001R++T(M)DM+++

 
   
Made in us
Excellent Exalted Champion of Chaos






Lake Forest, California, South Orange County

I believe that issue has long since been resolved and the washes are available on www.awesomepaintjob.com once again.


"Bryan always said that if the studio ever had to mix with the manufacturing and sales part of the business it would destroy the studio. And I have to say – he wasn’t wrong there! ... It’s become the promotions department of a toy company." -- Rick Priestly
 
   
Made in us
Slippery Ultramarine Scout Biker




Camp Pendleton CA

I am not sure if its a good idea but, when doing a full wash on a model, has anyone ever tried air brushing? I usually air brush my primer and base coats the wash and washing can take a while but with this recipe I could air brush it without spending a months pay.


By the way regular primer at auto parts store is $9 a quart and lasts about as long as 25 cans of spray primer, and its the same thing.
   
Made in us
Excellent Exalted Champion of Chaos






Lake Forest, California, South Orange County

Many people have decent results using the washes in an airbrush, and many of us are moving towards airbrushed primers.

"Bryan always said that if the studio ever had to mix with the manufacturing and sales part of the business it would destroy the studio. And I have to say – he wasn’t wrong there! ... It’s become the promotions department of a toy company." -- Rick Priestly
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Airbrushing washes also means making sure you spray it heavy enough to actually wash. Too far away and it'll act more of a tint/candy color than an actual wash.

Not sure if I'd ever move to airbrush/spraygun primer for the scale 40k is at. Rattle can does the job nice enough, failing that I'd get some adhesion promoter and just airbrush sans primer (at least on plastics).


--The whole concept of government granted and government regulated 'permits' and the accompanying government mandate for government approved firearms 'training' prior to being blessed by government with the privilege to carry arms in a government approved and regulated manner, flies directly in the face of the fundamental right to keep and bear arms.

“The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government.”


 
   
Made in us
Slippery Ultramarine Scout Biker




Camp Pendleton CA

I tried the promoter and with the paints I use it interfered with the paints bonding agent ( I use fascolors for rc, specificaly for plastics, however it doesnt bond to minis for crap) the end result was slimy? in appearance. The only reasons I use airbrush primers are cost and control, with a decent brush you can paint lines as thin as pencil lead or wider than a can and in the whole range control the flow of paint to suit your need/desire, admittedly I am way better on clear lexan for my trucks than on a mini but my avatar was %75 airbrush.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Odd because I see a lot of pro's promoting AP. I've seen it used with Createx acrylics. I personally don't use it as I'd rather just prime any surface I have to paint (and unless it's gak primer I trust it more).


--The whole concept of government granted and government regulated 'permits' and the accompanying government mandate for government approved firearms 'training' prior to being blessed by government with the privilege to carry arms in a government approved and regulated manner, flies directly in the face of the fundamental right to keep and bear arms.

“The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government.”


 
   
Made in us
Slippery Ultramarine Scout Biker




Camp Pendleton CA

yeah, I use primer on everything after that attempt, never thought of createx acrylics, have you used them before? the stuff I use is a bit more expensive than createx and I would love to cut the cost.

Sorry about the momentary hi-jack!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/03/25 02:58:23


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Loving the sewer water wash. Care to share the recipe?

If not I can understand you can't reveal "all" secrets.

As for bottles for washes I found the nearest Dollar Tree has some good deals on smaller, motel sized shampoos and conditioners. My local Dollar Tree has 2oz bottles of bubble bath right now at $1.00 for 10 bottles. The bubble batch is some really cheap crap so washes out of the bottle easily with just 30 seconds of cold water (don't use hot or you'll be swimming in suds even with such a small container of crappy bubble bath).

So for $2.00 US and 20 minutes of work I have 20 jars that I can mix washes into. They are those flip tops where you push on one side and the top pops up revealing the dropper spout.

Pretty soon the Dollar Tree manager is going to wonder why I've bought their entire stock.


For those that don't know Dollar Tree and similar such as Family Dollar they are stores that sell everything in them at $1 or less. A lot of it is crap (hence only a dollar) but I encourage people to check out their nearest store like that. I mean for a dime I get a 2oz bottle that I can walk out of the store with that same day and get to making washes right away.

--The whole concept of government granted and government regulated 'permits' and the accompanying government mandate for government approved firearms 'training' prior to being blessed by government with the privilege to carry arms in a government approved and regulated manner, flies directly in the face of the fundamental right to keep and bear arms.

“The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government.”


 
   
Made in us
Jinking Ravenwing Land Speeder Pilot





San Diego, CA USA

Yeah Fate...

I love the sewer water wash also. It is 1 of 10 new washes I have coming out called Les' DIRTY Washes which are all washes in the darker spectrum.

Sorry but I don't plan to release the recipes for the newer washes. Took a big hit releasing the first line but it gave people the basic formula to start with. You just have to play Mad Scientist like me and write down the mixes. Lots of time and money spent mixing and yelling "muahahahaha!" into the night sky.

Good find on the dollar store stuff! I love it when people find ways of doing things on the cheap. The more money you can keep in the wallet the better

 
   
Made in is
Thunderhawk Pilot Dropping From Orbit




Iceland

LBursley wrote: You just have to play Mad Scientist like me and write down the mixes. Lots of time and money spent mixing and yelling "muahahahaha!" into the night sky.


I lauged so hard at this

   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




I ordered the 3 jar set of rust pigments since the price was right.

I'll probably be ordering some of that sewer water wash when you release it.

--The whole concept of government granted and government regulated 'permits' and the accompanying government mandate for government approved firearms 'training' prior to being blessed by government with the privilege to carry arms in a government approved and regulated manner, flies directly in the face of the fundamental right to keep and bear arms.

“The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government.”


 
   
Made in us
Angry Blood Angel Assault marine




Tampa Bay area, FL

Hey Les, I commented on your youtube video when I saw it a long time ago and now that I've spotted this thread, I decided to thank you again. The funny thing was that when I first watched the video, I had everything on hand to make the washes right then and there.

I need to buy more ink colors to do some experiments and have had good luck with both FW and the Liquitex inks Even bashed together some ink that lets me do the bone armor on my Deathwing in one swing after priming them with the bone spray from army painter.
   
Made in us
Implacable Skitarii





Portland

Les your my new found hero! Never thought of making washes and this works so much better ty. also your tutorials rock, i have yet to watch one that wasn't good.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/04/30 23:36:04


You know you're spending too much time on 40k when... you worry about the Gets Hot! rule when turning on a plasma tv. - frightenedfreddie
原子炉へつれていって。 
   
Made in us
Devestating Grey Knight Dreadknight






I think this is one of the best DIY threads I've read in a long time. Thanks for sharing your recipe. I'll be using it very soon.

Cheers!

DQ:70+S++G+M-B+I+Pw40k93+ID++A+/eWD156R++T(T)DM++


 
   
Made in ca
Posts with Authority




I'm from the future. The future of space

Just a note, you can use clear dishwasher rinse agent in place of the flow aid (to make the flow-aid/water mixture). It's pretty much the same stuff. Don't use the coloured blue or yellow kind. Only the clear.

Balance in pick up games? Two people, each with their own goals for the game, design half a board game on their own without knowing the layout of the board and hope it all works out. Good luck with that. The faster you can find like minded individuals who want the same things from the game as you, the better. 
   
Made in us
Member of the Malleus




Fort Worth, Texas

@ frozenwastes... any particular brand you suggest? Also do you have any pics of models you've used this on?
   
Made in ca
Posts with Authority




I'm from the future. The future of space

Maxstreel wrote:@ frozenwastes... any particular brand you suggest? Also do you have any pics of models you've used this on?


I don't finish with the wash (I always highlight and whatnot more) so I don't really have a relevant picture. I'm also not planning on priming white and washing just to show the lack of difference between one surfactant substituted for another.

All that I'm talking about is substituting the couple of drops of liquitex flow aid that goes into the ounce of wash recipe with the clear dishwasher rinse agent. The point of the flow aid in the first place is to reduce surface tension. Any surfactant will do. I use a generic store brand. Take a look at their MSDS sheets and compare the chemical ingredients.

I've made Les' type washes with the recipe as given (all the exact same products/brands). I've substituted the liquitex/water mixture with half water, half Pledge/Future floor finish. I've used water with a drop of dish soap per cup/250ml of water. I've used the dishwasher rinse agent. They all pretty much turn out the same.

The first place I ever saw this method of washing can be found here:

http://www.reapermini.com/TheCraft/32 <-- scroll down about 5/6ths of the page.

"My formula for a "magic wash" (original recipe suggested by Anne) is 1 part paint(normally one of the MSP liners), 3-4 parts matte medium, and 3-4 parts water."

The MSP Liners in the above quote are a watered down ink.



Half matte medium, half water, and optionally something to lower the surface tension and colour ink to taste based on how intense you want it.

If you don't want to experiment with the process, I'd suggest buying Les's premixed washes. A local guy bought some and they are fabulous. He also has recipes available that he hasn't shared online.

Balance in pick up games? Two people, each with their own goals for the game, design half a board game on their own without knowing the layout of the board and hope it all works out. Good luck with that. The faster you can find like minded individuals who want the same things from the game as you, the better. 
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User






OMG I just made some SBB and HBB .... I <3 you Les I really really do...
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Burtucky, Michigan

Well the WORST CASE SCENARIO LBursley wont need to join any dating sites as so many of you are all gaga over him

I think the way you look at the hobby is really awesome man, big props to you for wanting to get so many people up and motivated to paint things. I also think your washes look fantastic so keep up the good work man.

Getting screwed with outrageous fees when trying to do your own thing sucks. A few buddies of mine tried to do a zombie themed website sometime ago,a dn we planned on selling merchandise and what not. Total gimmick type thing. Anywho some of our thigns were stolen and we couldnt really do anything about it because we hadnt bought a copy right for anything at that time. And it was only a meesly $1200 per copy right. So that obviously tanked lol.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/05/06 20:57:58


 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





Caldwell, Ohio

I have used future for quite a while but the big diffrence to me is the finish. Future makes everything super glossy and the matte medium well obviously makes the finished product matte. If you do not spray your mini's with a dull coat at the end (your a moron) but some people don't you will end up with glossy crevases on your models.

Founder, South East Ohio Gaming Guild http://SEOGamingGuild.freeforums.org
Contributor & Art Dept for Death Squads http://www.deathsquadsgame.org

"The very existence of flamethrowers proves that sometime, somewhere, someone said to themselves, “You know, I want to set those people over there on fire, but I’m just not close enough to get the job done.” ~George Carlin 
   
Made in ca
Posts with Authority




I'm from the future. The future of space

Dysturbed wrote:I have used future for quite a while but the big diffrence to me is the finish. Future makes everything super glossy and the matte medium well obviously makes the finished product matte. If you do not spray your mini's with a dull coat at the end (your a moron) but some people don't you will end up with glossy crevases on your models.


What I was talking about is using future as a surfactant. 50% Matte Medium, 25% Water, 25% Future. It's half way between matte and satin as a finish. About the same finish as most miniature paints in terms of glossyness.

There are lots of ways to reduce the surface tension of the wash. That's what the Liquitex Flow-Aid is for. I didn't have any handy the first time I made these kind of washes, so I just used half water, half future for the water portion of the recipe. The next time I had flow aid water mix that a friend gave me. The time after that, I used the clear rinse agent. All three washes are pretty much indistinguishable. The one with future is ever so slightly less matte, but I'm not sure I'd even be able to pick it out unless someone told me to look for it.

What does matter is the quality of your matte medium. I've used Golden and Liquitex and find them both great. I've also tried using a store brand that was cheaper. It's runnier than the name brands and I ended up using about two-thirds matte medium, one third water/surfactant mixture in order to get the same consistency as the 50-50 wash when you use the name brand stuff.

Balance in pick up games? Two people, each with their own goals for the game, design half a board game on their own without knowing the layout of the board and hope it all works out. Good luck with that. The faster you can find like minded individuals who want the same things from the game as you, the better. 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






I've been making my own washes for a long time, but Les' base recipe is fantastic and it's all I use now. Just as a word to the wise. If Daylor Rowney inks aren't available at your local art store, buy them online. The Liquitex Acrylic inks have a funky pigment that tends to float no matter what you put it in, which makes a great glaze, but refuses to gather like a wash or ink and they don't make a strong brown;they are all transparent. Dr. Martin's Bombay ink behaves strangely with the matte medium and tends to clump instead of mixing and granulates in coverage, if you use alcohol with it it will leave the crevasses bare and tone everything else, creating a white line effect (over white primer). And Higgins sells a good black, but their brown is actually a violet which is nothing like the sepia or umber you'd expect.

 Avatar 720 wrote:
You see, to Auston, everyone is a Death Star; there's only one way you can take it and that's through a small gap at the back.

Come check out my Blood Angels,Crimson Fists, and coming soon Eldar
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/391013.page
I have conceded that the Eldar page I started in P&M is their legitimate home. Free Candy! Updated 10/19.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/391553.page
Powder Burns wrote:what they need to make is a fullsize leatherman, like 14" long folded, with a bone saw, notches for bowstring, signaling flare, electrical hand crank generator, bolt cutters..
 
   
Made in gb
Land Raider Pilot on Cruise Control




England

I've mixed myself a few of these and I'm loving them (thanks Les!)

I found the matte medium seems to dull the colour quite a lot on reds, so I'm experimenting with mixing the matte medium with some gloss medium which seems to work very well.

I noticed in one of your tutorials your Drying Blood mix didn't seem to have this dulling effect – any chance of sharing the ink mix for that one!?

 
   
Made in gb
Blood-Drenched Death Company Marine






Hard to hear that your cottage industry got screwed. As a scientist I can see why such things exist but I think you'll get a better rep from posting online and letting us 'poison' ourselves. It's sad that legalism has gone too far.

I'm planning to try out the mix myself - will *any* matte medium work as I am not sure how available liquitex is in the uk.
   
Made in gb
Land Raider Pilot on Cruise Control




England

Phototoxin wrote:Hard to hear that your cottage industry got screwed. As a scientist I can see why such things exist but I think you'll get a better rep from posting online and letting us 'poison' ourselves. It's sad that legalism has gone too far.

I'm planning to try out the mix myself - will *any* matte medium work as I am not sure how available liquitex is in the uk.


http://www.discountart.co.uk/ is good for Liquitex mediums in the UK.
And http://www.artifolk.co.uk for Daler Rowney ink.

 
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User





Corruption Capitol, Illinois

Phototoxin wrote:Hard to hear that your cottage industry got screwed. As a scientist I can see why such things exist but I think you'll get a better rep from posting online and letting us 'poison' ourselves. It's sad that legalism has gone too far.

I'm planning to try out the mix myself - will *any* matte medium work as I am not sure how available liquitex is in the uk.


It's our "nanny state" which has gotten out of control with the 'hope and change' crowd in office. Before anyone yells- I have lived my entire life in Chicago. So, I knows of whats I speaks...

Anyhoo, getting off the soapbox, I have made 6 washes and 2 glazes. I used Les' recipe except on the glazes, I substituted the Liquitex's matte medium with their glaze medium. It gives a hint of a gloss. I will try it on my red and black based WoC army. I will be getting a hands on tutorial on macro photography in a few weeks so I can show off my gift in progress to my daughter. VC army. Doing this army with what I am learning here on dakka is a lot of fun. With a lot of maniacal laughter punctuating my German death metal station as I create. Thanks Les.

I throw the small ones back!  
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





Les, you are the man! These washes are awesome.

But I have to quote what Auston wrote, to stress his point:

AustonT wrote: If Daylor Rowney inks aren't available at your local art store, buy them online. The Liquitex Acrylic inks have a funky pigment that tends to float no matter what you put it in, which makes a great glaze


Because I used Liquitex inks first like a dummy and saw this excessive glazing effect first hand. Even tipping the ratio away from 50/50, as far as 75% water/flow and 25% matte, it still behaved like a glaze! Quite annoying.

So the lesson is, use the ink Les recommends and the washes will work as advertised.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2010/11/11 02:26:27


 
   
Made in gb
Blood-Drenched Death Company Marine






I've made black with the windsor and newton inks. They are calligraphy inks and have shellac so I don't know what effect that will have. It looks ok but I'm waiting another few days incase it explodes.

Pro-tip do not use water based fountain-pen ink as they will separate into their constituent colours!
   
 
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