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Honestly though, I don't really know what you even think you're saying. You're just sorta yelling things that don't make a lot of sense.

SHUTUP

ShumaGorath wrote:
Thats a WASR-10 which is an AKM.

Thats what I said... my Romanian Ak47... Der!

No the ak 47s bolt is slightly off center on the VERTICAL axis. Fire an AK on full auto and have a 1000 frames per second camera watching the barrel. IT flops around like a fish.


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ALSO IF I DIDN'T KNOW WHAT I WAS TALKING ABOUT THEN I WOULDN'T HAVE POSTED THIS TOPIC!

Deff Jaw wrote:No I put the sights on the target correctly, but it still was inaccurate. I was just saying that it can't hit anything because it didn't have a great spread (7"). I fired 30 rounds with all 3. Kar 98 3" and MP44 3.5". Now who is going to argue back that the ak is still better? BECAUSE it is not, it is a russian piece of junk that has a chance of hit something at 100 meters. Also every time you fire the AK the barrel jiggles around. Also the barrel and bolt are off center to it tends to pull to the right. The stock is 1" below what it should be (not an inline stock). The MP44 has an inline stock and the barrel barely moves.

Now youre saying its off center vertically- when they way youve been talking is that it pulls right due to being off center? You also claimed the barrel wiggled around, but seem to have set that sillyness aside. I posted 3 vids(and there were several others showing the same thing) that demonstrated the slightly elevated barrel axis doesnt have the problems you have indicated- the recoil rise isnt that severe under ful auto- and with single shots its not even a factor.

You certainly seem to think you know what youre talking about. If you had a deeper knowledge of assault rifles- first things- you wouldnt have listed the G3 and FN-Fal in the poll- they are battle rifles. Also the XM-8 wouldnt be listed, while it is an assualt rifle/modular weapon, its never made it off the testing ranges and doesnt look like it ever will. Without some real world testing its just a lab toy for FPS players to drool over. And you seem to have decided the AK47- isnt an ak47- its a bunch of variant/derivitives- so why didnt you list those right off the bat instead of waffling on the point to justify the mp44 is 'better'?

I would also again ask, where and who's mp44 you got to fire? People are pretty stingy/careful with rifles valued between 10-15 thousand dollars, and only a small list of collectors actually fire thiers.
Even if you do have access to one, it doesnt seem like youve fired it enough to really have an idea of its handling characteristics compared to other rifles. Get a few thousand rounds through a couple different models and you might get a much more coherent point of view than your ' I fired 30 rounds' tests you mentioned.

Just saying the mp44 is better because you want it to be, doesnt make it true. You keep harping on the barrel/stock/off center bolt axis of the AK as an enormous design flaw of some sort- but fail to realize its a deliberate design element. The reasons for which I doubt you would really understand since you also think the AKs have barrels that wiggle around-which makes people wonder if youve even fired one hands on. Its ok to not know something- gives you a chance to learn new things- but acting like you know stuff that you dont(or cant communicate what you really mean) doesnt do much for your credibility when you tell others they are wrong but cant back your claims with anything valid.

Deff Jaw wrote:No the ak 47s bolt is slightly off center on the VERTICAL axis. Fire an AK on full auto and have a 1000 frames per second camera watching the barrel. IT flops around like a fish.


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ALSO IF I DIDN'T KNOW WHAT I WAS TALKING ABOUT THEN I WOULDN'T HAVE POSTED THIS TOPIC!

CAPS WINS THREAD

No the ak 47s bolt is slightly off center on the VERTICAL axis.

Really? Then why did you say this: "Also the barrel and bolt are off center to it tends to pull to the right."

Being off center vertically causes the gun to pull right? That's interesting.

It's also extremely common for rifles to have their bolt/barrel positioned out of the vertical center for the gun. I'd speculate it's in excess of 75% of all designs that are set up that way.

Fire an AK on full auto and have a 1000 frames per second camera watching the barrel. IT flops around like a fish.

Ahh, I get it, high speed video. And when you say "flop like fish" (for the hundreth time), you really mean "flexes slightly." Gotcha.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5pVya7eask

Watch that video. It's a Barrett .50 going off, and there's obvious barrel flex, plus flex elsewhere in the gun. Barretts are very accurate guns. Guns flex when fired. Guns flex for a lot of reasons, actually. It's why they like to free float barrels.

Go ahead and google "free float barrel." I'll wait.

Now, here's a golf ball hitting a steel plate at high speed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxj0RgCs8bw

It jiggles and flexes like a water balloon. Does that mean that golf balls are soft like water balloons? Or, I guess in your world, like a fish?

No. It means that high speed cameras expose a world of crazy behavior that we don't notice under normal conditions. Firearms desginers understand that barrels will vibrate and flex. It's something they work around.

ALSO IF I DIDN'T KNOW WHAT I WAS TALKING ABOUT THEN I WOULDN'T HAVE POSTED THIS TOPIC!

Right, because nobody has ever been wrong on an internet forum before.

Quick! Someone is wrong on the internet!!!

lol, Wrong AND in denial!! Call CNN!!

I can't tell you whose MP44 I used, because he doesn't want people knocking on his door. Actually a MP44 is worth a MINIMUM of $25,000. A REGISTERED AK47 is worth 40,000 because their are more legal MP44s than legal AKs.

Deff Jaw wrote:I can't tell you whose MP44 I used, because he doesn't want people knocking on his door. Actually a MP44 is worth a MINIMUM of $25,000. A REGISTERED AK47 is worth 40,000 because their are more legal MP44s than legal AKs.

Ok dude.... seriously... stop talking! In fact... I now going to blow your lies right out of the water with supporting facts:

Deff Jaw wrote:Actually a MP44 is worth a MINIMUM of $25,000..

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Browse.aspx?SearchType=0&Timeframe=0&Keywords=mp44&Cat=2326&Items=50

Really? Here is a link with them for sale for 18k. (add 200$ for ATF Tax+FFL dealers fee)

Deff Jaw wrote:A REGISTERED AK47 is worth 40,000 because their are more legal MP44s than legal AKs..

Wrong again. In fact.. let me show you just how easy it is to get a legal Russian Ak47 for the cheap! (under 5k)

Step 1: Get a Class 2 and 3 permit
Step 2: Buy this:
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=176732269
Step 3: Pending what was cut to make it a legal kit... Buy this:
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=176709514
Step 4: OR Buy this:
http://www.firinglineoklahoma.com/akreceivers/standard.html
Step 5: Combine
Step 6: Register
Step 7: ???
Step 8: Profit!!!!

It is not illegal to make a Class 3 firearm with the right permits for personal use. You just have to use current in country parts. (And if you know where to look pending the weapon there is still a MASSIVE supply to me had)

OR you could use the "Post-Dealer" method if you don't want to build your own and still want to get a Class 3 weapon for the cheap.

Step 1: Same as above
Step 2: buy a "Post-Dealer" Firearm legally and register it under your name as a small business expense
Step 3: "Demo" it with the local PD... aka let them shoot a case of ammo through it.
Step 4: It is now legally yours
Step 5: ???
Step 6: Profit!

How do you think all those gun shops with Class 3 weapons are legally doing it on the cheap? Granted you can't buy them and can only "Rent" them in house to shoot... but still.

Phryxis: Thats a AS50 not a barret, shame on you

Its called an AS50 BARRETT. But also the barrel moves just very little while the aks moves even more like WAY more.

Deff Jaw wrote:Its called an AS50 BARRETT. But also the barrel moves just very little while the aks moves even more like WAY more.

Wrong again dude.

Seriously, just stop talking unless you actually start to produce hard facts to back your claims up.


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You are even wrong here...

The AS50 is made by AI not Barrett.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accuracy_International_AS50

Its called an AS50 BARRETT.

No, it's not. Barrett is an American company that makes a number of .50BMG rifles (plus some other stuff). The AS50 is made by a British firm, Accuracy International, who also make the Arctic Warfare guns popularized in Counter-Strike.

Bla_Ze is correct, I mistook the AS50 for a Barrett, since they look very similar. It doesn't change the main point, though, which is that both the AS50 and the Barrett .50s are sub MOA long range guns, and they still show barrel flex while firing.

But also the barrel moves just very little while the aks moves even more like WAY more

Sure, the AS50 has less flex in the barrel... And it shoots sub MOA.

The AK has considerably more flex, and it shoots more like 3 MOA.

In case you haven't googled MOA yet, please do so now.

In any case, we all know there's more to accuracy than barrel flex, but nothing about this is novel. Barrels flex and vibrate under the extreme stresses of firing. It's understood that this happens. The fact that an AK vibrates more than an AS50 is no surprise, the AK is a much, much lighter gun, with a much thinner barrel.

To suggest the AK is flopping around like a fish is a drastic over statement.

It's also ignoring the basic realities of physics. The AK's barrel doesn't flex because it's a "crappy gun." It flexes because that's the behavior you get from a tube of steel under the levels of stress generated by a 7.62x39mm bullet firing. All rifles deal with this.

In fact, the Stg44, being much older than any of the other guns in the list, doesn't have the benefits of modern metallurgy to give it a light and rigid barrel. I think if you filmed the Stg44 with a high speed camera, you'd see a lot of the dreaded "fish" activity you're so contemptuous of.

I dunno, it's tough to know where you're coming from. Maybe the problem is that you're talking about "assualt rifles" and the rest of us are stuck on assault rifles? Is there a difference I'm not aware of?

lol Cant tell me because its likely youve never fired more than that one 30 rd mag through it- and that makes you an 'ecksphurt'.

You do realize- if the AK barrel moved like you claim it does- that gas piston tube on top- which is a fixed part- would get ripped off?

Every rifle barrel flexes when fired- sometimes its called 'barrel whip'. Nothing new there. High speed cams catch it, but to the naked eye its imperceptible-kinda like your expertise on this topic. You have an opporunity here to educate yourself and really learn what you're talking about- instead you're fabricating 'facts' and standing by your ill informed opinions.

Also- most of those 'legal' mp/stg44's you are talking about- really arent. Most were brought home as war trophies by WWII vets. The 1968 Gun Control Act gave a grae period in which those guns had to be registered, only a small percentage actually were. This means most of those that are family heirlooms arent properly registered- ergo- illegal. Which means theyre basically an illegal receiver with a selection of moderately valued parts attached. Thats assuming you actually know somebody that would let you shoot thiers

As for the price- just because one is listed at 25k$ doesnt mean it sold for that. A gentleman I still do gunsmithing for has been trying to get his hands on one for a while and a few months back one sold for 12k$- it had been listed for 20k, and kept dropping in price. This economy has hit alot of collectors hard like that.

I really want to hear from Deff Jaw try to ignore all facts just posted and continue to argue a invalid point.

I need a good laugh right now.

jp400 wrote:I really want to hear from Deff Jaw try to ignore all facts just posted and continue to argue a invalid point.

I need a good laugh right now.

I've been laughing for pages.

Yes but what about the FN P90?

Kilkrazy wrote:Yes but what about the FN P90?

Thats a PDW, which is fancy term for mix between and SMG and a sidearm. So, it might as well be on the poll along with the xm8, the G3 and FAL since they dont fit assualt rifles either

Kilkrazy wrote:Yes but what about the FN P90?

Kilkrazy wrote:Yes but what about the FN P90?

It was the magical supergun at the end of goldeneye for the N64.

ShumaGorath wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:Yes but what about the FN P90?

It was the magical supergun at the end of goldeneye for the N64.

that was the RCP 90.

the FN p90 is a cool little bullpup PDW made in Belgium.

Dual P90 in Timesplitter 2, hurrr

Frazzled wrote:Any gun with a beer bottle opener has a lot going for it.

Well i ahve a few more things to add to that (if my friend wasnt bulls ing me. They probably were but hell whatever) the Russian wire stocks could double as a bread cutter, cant remember the pistol but its slide could be used as a bottle opener, the PPSH could be used as a chair when the tripod was down. Please anyone who actualy knows if this is true or not let me know so i can get my friend back

You can use the magazine lips of nearly any assault rifle as a bottle opener, and it bends the lips causing jams.

That's why the Galil was designed with a proper bottle opener on it.

Kilkrazy wrote:You can use the magazine lips of nearly any assault rifle as a bottle opener, and it bends the lips causing jams.

That's why the Galil was designed with a proper bottle opener on it.

and a wire cutter

Yup.

Then I think I win the thread.

Nope... Pretty sure I do

No, I do.

I nominated the Galil.