Best Assualt Rifle of all time.

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**ShumaGorath**

IG_urban wrote:
ShumaGorath wrote:
Kilkrazy wrote:Yes but what about the FN P90?

It was the magical supergun at the end of goldeneye for the N64.

that was the RCP 90.

the FN p90 is a cool little bullpup PDW made in Belgium.

They didn't get the rights to use actual gun names in that game. Hence why the ak was called the kalisnakov. The RCP90 was the p90.

**whalemusic360**

warpcrafter wrote:You forgot the Alexander Arms .50 cal Beowulf. It's machine-gun power without the machine gun weight.

Holy crap, I agree with someone! Large Caliber bullet with AR ergonomics and customizability. And I may not be a balistic expert, but my father has done Law Enforcement and Military Training and Sales for the last 25 years (aka, my entire life) so I've picked up a few things. Also own several of the options on the list and have shot them all except an XM8 (non-production gun).

**Phryxis**

Hence why the ak was called the kalisnakov.

I wouldn't think anybody owns the rights to that anymore, do they?

**ShumaGorath**

Phryxis wrote:
Hence why the ak was called the kalisnakov.

I wouldn't think anybody owns the rights to that anymore, do they?

Yeah, it was a bit strange. They changed the names of several of the weapons or just called them by generic titles "Sniper rifle" being one. I chalk it up to nintendo or the times.

**Phryxis**

In Soviet Russia, intellectual property has rights to YOU.

Seriously though, is Deff Jaw going to post on this thread again, or have I been stealth bumping it in vain?

**fastchocolatesurprise**

Whoo, some funny stuff in this thread.
I'll have to be one of those wierdos who pick a strange rifle just to be contrary.
Vz. 58

Seriously, just a bump to hear back from Deff

**DEUS VULT**

Longbow.
/Suck it, French Chivalry

**Karon**

**Master Llyons**

[imo] The AK and any variants there of...

**Deff Jaw**

jp400 wrote:
Deff Jaw wrote:I can't tell you whose MP44 I used, because he doesn't want people knocking on his door. Actually a MP44 is worth a MINIMUM of $25,000. A REGISTERED AK47 is worth 40,000 because their are more legal MP44s than legal AKs.

Ok dude.... seriously... stop talking! In fact... I now going to blow your lies right out of the water with supporting facts:

Deff Jaw wrote:Actually a MP44 is worth a MINIMUM of $25,000..

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Browse.aspx?SearchType=0&Timeframe=0&Keywords=mp44&Cat=2326&Items=50

Really? Here is a link with them for sale for 18k. (add 200$ for ATF Tax+FFL dealers fee)

Deff Jaw wrote:A REGISTERED AK47 is worth 40,000 because their are more legal MP44s than legal AKs..

Wrong again. In fact.. let me show you just how easy it is to get a legal Russian Ak47 for the cheap! (under 5k)

Step 1: Get a Class 2 and 3 permit
Step 2: Buy this:
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=176732269
Step 3: Pending what was cut to make it a legal kit... Buy this:
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=176709514
Step 4: OR Buy this:
http://www.firinglineoklahoma.com/akreceivers/standard.html
Step 5: Combine
Step 6: Register
Step 7: ???
Step 8: Profit!!!!

It is not illegal to make a Class 3 firearm with the right permits for personal use. You just have to use current in country parts. (And if you know where to look pending the weapon there is still a MASSIVE supply to me had)

OR you could use the "Post-Dealer" method if you don't want to build your own and still want to get a Class 3 weapon for the cheap.

Step 1: Same as above
Step 2: buy a "Post-Dealer" Firearm legally and register it under your name as a small business expense
Step 3: "Demo" it with the local PD... aka let them shoot a case of ammo through it.
Step 4: It is now legally yours
Step 5: ???
Step 6: Profit!

How do you think all those gun shops with Class 3 weapons are legally doing it on the cheap? Granted you can't buy them and can only "Rent" them in house to shoot... but still.

You can do that IF you what to go to jail for 20 years. It is not legal to "make" a semi auto ak a full auto one. And your will also be a convict and will never be allowed to legally own a weapon.

**youbedead**

Deff Jaw wrote:
jp400 wrote:
Deff Jaw wrote:I can't tell you whose MP44 I used, because he doesn't want people knocking on his door. Actually a MP44 is worth a MINIMUM of $25,000. A REGISTERED AK47 is worth 40,000 because their are more legal MP44s than legal AKs.

Ok dude.... seriously... stop talking! In fact... I now going to blow your lies right out of the water with supporting facts:

Deff Jaw wrote:Actually a MP44 is worth a MINIMUM of $25,000..

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Browse.aspx?SearchType=0&Timeframe=0&Keywords=mp44&Cat=2326&Items=50

Really? Here is a link with them for sale for 18k. (add 200$ for ATF Tax+FFL dealers fee)

Deff Jaw wrote:A REGISTERED AK47 is worth 40,000 because their are more legal MP44s than legal AKs..

Wrong again. In fact.. let me show you just how easy it is to get a legal Russian Ak47 for the cheap! (under 5k)

Step 1: Get a Class 2 and 3 permit
Step 2: Buy this:
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=176732269
Step 3: Pending what was cut to make it a legal kit... Buy this:
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=176709514
Step 4: OR Buy this:
http://www.firinglineoklahoma.com/akreceivers/standard.html
Step 5: Combine
Step 6: Register
Step 7: ???
Step 8: Profit!!!!

It is not illegal to make a Class 3 firearm with the right permits for personal use. You just have to use current in country parts. (And if you know where to look pending the weapon there is still a MASSIVE supply to me had)

OR you could use the "Post-Dealer" method if you don't want to build your own and still want to get a Class 3 weapon for the cheap.

Step 1: Same as above
Step 2: buy a "Post-Dealer" Firearm legally and register it under your name as a small business expense
Step 3: "Demo" it with the local PD... aka let them shoot a case of ammo through it.
Step 4: It is now legally yours
Step 5: ???
Step 6: Profit!

How do you think all those gun shops with Class 3 weapons are legally doing it on the cheap? Granted you can't buy them and can only "Rent" them in house to shoot... but still.

You can do that IF you what to go to jail for 20 years. It is not legal to "make" a semi auto ak a full auto one. And your will also be a convict and will never be allowed to legally own a weapon.

\

not unless you have a class 3 permit

**Mistress of minis**

Lol- Deff continues to display a lack of ability to validate his posts and just makes a one liner about legality- which is completely irrelevant to the actual debate.

JP covered the legal aspects, yet all Deff can say is its illegal....

I've been to many machinegun shoots. Lots of automatic AKs to be seen, still havent been to one were anyone was using an MP44.

But- this seems pointless at this juncture. I can hear Deffjaw quoting Adam Savage "I reject your reality and substitute my own!!" Which ofcourse make the MP44 the most uberest bullet launching machine to have ever graced the face of the planet.

**Inquisitor Lord Bane**

I actually voted for the AK at first, but I got to shoot a SCAR 16S yesterday, and I think I'm in love. I know its technically a carbine, but it shoots 5.56x45m, so I would put it in here.
The only thing stopping me from buying one is the $3k pricetag

**Deff Jaw**

You still can't make a semi auto AK into a full auto one it is illegal period. Even if there are parts to do it.

**dogma**

Seeing as there is a tax on the manufacture of NFA firearms, it does appear as though it is quite legal.

I suggest you read this in order to get some footing on the issue.

Moreover, as private citizens and corporations are nearly interchangeable under US law, one wonders how the various companies that make their living by manufacturing automatic weapons in the US do so legally if in fact it is illegal to do so.

**jp400**

Deff Jaw wrote:You still can't make a semi auto AK into a full auto one it is illegal period. Even if there are parts to do it.

http://www.quarterbore.com/nfa/class3.htm
http://www.atf.gov/forms/firearms/
http://www.ehow.com/how_4967294_class-gun-license.html

**Deff Jaw**

It nevers says that you can MAKE a full auto/ burst weapon. it says that you can buy AND trade ONLY.

**fastchocolatesurprise**

Oooh, now we are getting into the difference between 03 Federal Firearms License and 03 SOT (Special Occupational Tax).
Neat, keep going, I lack drama in my life.

**Cheese Elemental**

Hey, do any of you yanks own a 'bullpup' firearm? If so, is it generally more comfortable to hold and easier to reload with the difference magazine position?

**youbedead**

Deff Jaw wrote:It nevers says that you can MAKE a full auto/ burst weapon. it says that you can buy AND trade ONLY.

I'm sorry I was mistaken with a class 2 SOT you can manufacture NFA firearms you can only buy/sell with a class 3

**Deff Jaw**

yep

**dogma**

So you're recanting on the notion that it is always illegal to make a semi-automatic AK into a fully automatic one?

**DEUS VULT**

Cheese Elemental wrote:Hey, do any of you yanks own a 'bullpup' firearm? If so, is it generally more comfortable to hold and easier to reload with the difference magazine position?

Dont own any, but spent some time training with the SA-80 during my service.
I liked it. Fairly comfortable, a little easier to carry than a fully loaded combat layout m4. I prefer the location of the magazine well of non-bullpup rifles, however.

**Deff Jaw**

dogma wrote:So you're recanting on the notion that it is always illegal to make a semi-automatic AK into a fully automatic one?

Yes

**DEUS VULT**

Only illegal if you get caught.

**fastchocolatesurprise**

Cheese Elemental wrote:Hey, do any of you yanks own a 'bullpup' firearm? If so, is it generally more comfortable to hold and easier to reload with the difference magazine position?

Don't own any, but I've shot a few.
Definitely better in terms of ergonomics. Purpose built bullpups are great.
"Custom" bodge jobs are hit or miss depending on the rifle. Used a bullpup built on a romanian AK; hard to change mags and you needed a radiator on the grip to cool it down enough to use it even for semi auto.

**Phryxis**

I prefer the location of the magazine well of non-bullpup rifles, however.

Based on nothing, that's what I would assume is the case as well.

I like the SCAR-L, it's pretty much the layout I'd design. Conventional layout, reciprocating charging handle up high and forward on the right side.

Sadly, I noticed this:

http://www.defensereview.com/socom-cancels-fn-mk-16-scar-l-scar-light-riflecarbinesbr-program-will-the-fn-mk-17-scar-h-scar-heavy-survive/

Oh well.

**Mistress of minis**

They ditched the XM-8 program because the gun was too expensive- not a big surprise they did the same with the SCAR when it got to be around the same price

**Phryxis**

not a big surprise they did the same with the SCAR when it got to be around the same price

The piece that stuck out to me, which does make sense, is that there's no really significant sea change from the M4 to the SCAR-L. It's basically just a minor improvement, same cartridge, same basic capability.

I think that until they do something like the 6.8SPC, there's really no reason to change off the M4.

That said, M4s wear out. I'm not sure why they wouldn't replace old guns with a new model, but I guess if it costs more, that's enough of an argument. That and the fact that you've got a familliar weapon with parts all over the place.

**ShumaGorath**

Mistress of minis wrote:They ditched the XM-8 program because the gun was too expensive- not a big surprise they did the same with the SCAR when it got to be around the same price

And yet every javelin missile system (Some foam, a computer weaker than an Ipod and some chemical explosive) costs more than a tesla roadster (An all electric sports car). Military appropriations are a mystical and hilariously corrupt thing.