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Kind of surprised that the grey/silver and blue ended up being the Astral Claws scheme. Looks like I'll be starting up some Astral Claws in the not too distant future...

Kanluwen wrote:

Also, what the hell is so special about the "Space Sharks"?
There's nothing that makes them unique enough for me to really care. It's another Codex Marines army.

\
Blood angels use to be "just another codex army" once upon a time until GW actually did something with them. So wree Dark angels. So were black templars and a host of every marine army until GW actually took them and did something with them.

That's the same thing that got me into my Mantis Warriors 20+ years ago, though the basic scheme was just green, the tranquility camo was very cool.

I'm really praying we get some decent rule entries and army lists. I"m going to be pissed if all we get is a bunch of standard codex entries with 1 or 2 minor variances and just the 2 special characters we've seen modeled up. Personally I don't value scenario rules as I've seen hundreds written up. I just don't want this to end up as a vehicle to push their little bit of fluff and put out 2 models.

Why in the hell would you not get a bunch of standard codex entries with minor variances and special characters?

These were Codex Chapters. There was no Chaos involvement, there was nothing aside from some Marine Chapters striking out on their own.

Really. There wasn't anything more to it.

Kanluwen wrote:Why in the hell would you not get a bunch of standard codex entries with minor variances and special characters?

These were Codex Chapters. There was no Chaos involvement, there was nothing aside from some Marine Chapters striking out on their own.

Really. There wasn't anything more to it.

assuming that GW/FW doesn't retcon something major and new into the story... what are the chances of that happening? *cough* space hulk wiping out 95% of the blood angels a thousand years before the current timeline *cough*

warboss wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:Why in the hell would you not get a bunch of standard codex entries with minor variances and special characters?

These were Codex Chapters. There was no Chaos involvement, there was nothing aside from some Marine Chapters striking out on their own.

Really. There wasn't anything more to it.

assuming that GW/FW doesn't retcon something major and new into the story... what are the chances of that happening? *cough* space hulk wiping out 95% of the blood angels a thousand years before the current timeline *cough*

that's not what happened, just half their chapter went rouge and the other half killed them

TyraelVladinhurst wrote:

warboss wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:Why in the hell would you not get a bunch of standard codex entries with minor variances and special characters?

These were Codex Chapters. There was no Chaos involvement, there was nothing aside from some Marine Chapters striking out on their own.

Really. There wasn't anything more to it.

assuming that GW/FW doesn't retcon something major and new into the story... what are the chances of that happening? *cough* space hulk wiping out 95% of the blood angels a thousand years before the current timeline *cough*

that's not what happened, just half their chapter went rouge and the other half killed them

i'm not talking about the other almost-wiping out of the blood angels in the novels but the story in the space hulk board game that has the blood angel's entire chapter deploying onto a hulk and only 50 marines survive it.

Thats over kill.

warboss wrote:

TyraelVladinhurst wrote:

warboss wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:Why in the hell would you not get a bunch of standard codex entries with minor variances and special characters?

These were Codex Chapters. There was no Chaos involvement, there was nothing aside from some Marine Chapters striking out on their own.

Really. There wasn't anything more to it.

assuming that GW/FW doesn't retcon something major and new into the story... what are the chances of that happening? *cough* space hulk wiping out 95% of the blood angels a thousand years before the current timeline *cough*

that's not what happened, just half their chapter went rogue and the other half killed them

I'm not talking about the other almost-wiping out of the blood angels in the novels but the story in the space hulk board game that has the blood angel's entire chapter deploying onto a hulk and only 50 marines survive it.

I'm assuming you're referring to "The Disaster at Secoris".

To which I point out the "estimate of killed Genestealers and Tyranid organisms"...which was close to 12,000 compared to losses of 995 men(with light casualties at the start, and then spiking as squads became isolated and unarmed after the Genestealers began awakening in massive numbers).
And bearing in mind that this was after their ammunition stores and repair/service personnel were destroyed.
Furthermore, Blood Angels are one of those Chapters(like the Ultramarines) the ability to near-instantaneously replace their casualties due to the fact that they recruit exclusively from one world(which they own, and maintain a constant presence on).

95% losses is a joke in that case, especially with gene-seed that's pretty much universally compatible with your population base.

As for GW/FW retconning The Badab War...I really don't see it happening. They've wanted the Red Corsairs to be the more "renegade" of the fallen Chapters, rather than "Look guyz, I'm wif Chaos! Wooo spikes!".

Kanluwen wrote:
Furthermore, Blood Angels are one of those Chapters(like the Ultramarines) the ability to near-instantaneously replace their casualties due to the fact that they recruit exclusively from one world(which they own, and maintain a constant presence on).

95% losses is a joke in that case, especially with gene-seed that's pretty much universally compatible with your population base.

As for GW/FW retconning The Badab War...I really don't see it happening. They've wanted the Red Corsairs to be the more "renegade" of the fallen Chapters, rather than "Look guyz, I'm wif Chaos! Wooo spikes!".

You do realize that the transformation from "Backwater Joe" to "Brother Marine Joeicus" isn't an overnight process and is a far cry from "near-instantaneously".

Also, I may be wrong, but Huron Blackheart was possessed by a demon*, which would probably put him much farther along the "I'm wif Chaos! Woo spikes!" scale then you are giving him credit for.

*or driven mad by the little demon critter that he hung out with.

Athera wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:
Furthermore, Blood Angels are one of those Chapters(like the Ultramarines) the ability to near-instantaneously replace their casualties due to the fact that they recruit exclusively from one world(which they own, and maintain a constant presence on).

95% losses is a joke in that case, especially with gene-seed that's pretty much universally compatible with your population base.

As for GW/FW retconning The Badab War...I really don't see it happening. They've wanted the Red Corsairs to be the more "renegade" of the fallen Chapters, rather than "Look guyz, I'm wif Chaos! Wooo spikes!".

You do realize that the transformation from "Backwater Joe" to "Brother Marine Joeicus" isn't an overnight process and is a far cry from "near-instantaneously".

And you do realize that it's not nearly as lengthy as you think, right? It's a few years, at most, depending on the age of the recipient.

Also, I may be wrong, but Huron Blackheart was possessed by a demon*, which would probably put him much farther along the "I'm wif Chaos! Woo spikes!" scale then you are giving him credit for.
*or driven mad by the little demon critter that he hung out with.

You are.
He had no real outward involvement with anything even closely related to the Forces of Chaos until after fleeing to the Maelstrom and the events of the Badab War. It's implied he got the Hamadrya from one of the worlds within the Maelstrom.

Space Shark Army Wide rule, Aquatic Masters!

All Units count water features as clear terrain. They may also DS in a water feature and will not scatter.

Land Raider Subs!

Except the Space Sharks were a Chapter that specialized in Dreadnoughts, Terminators, and Drop Pod assaults...

Kanluwen wrote:Except the Space Sharks were a Chapter that specialized in Dreadnoughts, Terminators, and Drop Pod assaults...

Dang it internet

I regret reading "Diary of a Scout Marine!"

Kanluwen wrote:Except the Space Sharks were a Chapter that specialized in Dreadnoughts, Terminators, and Drop Pod assaults...

I think you mean Sharknoughts, Sharkinators and Shark Shark Sharksaults.

No, he doesn't!

Let's not get all "Blood"-like like the Blood Angels did - please!

Kanluwen wrote:Furthermore, Blood Angels are one of those Chapters(like the Ultramarines) the ability to near-instantaneously replace their casualties due to the fact that they recruit exclusively from one world(which they own, and maintain a constant presence on).

95% losses is a joke in that case, especially with gene-seed that's pretty much universally compatible with your population base.

Kanluwen wrote:And you do realize that it's not nearly as lengthy as you think, right? It's a few years, at most, depending on the age of the recipient.

where are you getting this grossly incorrect info from? it takes several years MINIMUM to simply implant ONE marine with all the glands necessary to make him a space marine. if all you want is a steroid freak with the training of a veteran guardsmen, then you're done. it takes additional years to actually train him to the level of a full marine. if you're talking about 95% casualties in a chapter, that takes hundreds of years to fix (in order to get enough marines to veteran training status). in the novels, the blood angels lost less than half the amount described in the space hulk schlock and they had to TITHE their successor chapters for scouts and recent advancements to full marines to make up for their losses.

I see a lock in the near future if this keeps up. How bout we take the fluff argument to not news and rumors.

warboss wrote:

where are you getting this grossly incorrect info from? it takes several years MINIMUM to simply implant ONE marine with all the glands necessary to make him a space marine.

Multitasking, impossible in the 41st millennium?

kenshin620 wrote:

warboss wrote:

where are you getting this grossly incorrect info from? it takes several years MINIMUM to simply implant ONE marine with all the glands necessary to make him a space marine.

Multitasking, impossible in the 41st millennium?

The Imperium has never struck me as being especially technically efficient.

plastictrees wrote:

kenshin620 wrote:

warboss wrote:

where are you getting this grossly incorrect info from? it takes several years MINIMUM to simply implant ONE marine with all the glands necessary to make him a space marine.

Multitasking, impossible in the 41st millennium?

The Imperium has never struck me as being especially technically efficient.

"Ah finally I got my new plasma gun bitz, 3 years and 2 days after I ordered!"

Alpharius wrote:No, he doesn't!

Let's not get all "Blood"-like like the Blood Angels did - please!

That happened to the Space Wolves first.

I think I was misunderstood, when I say minor variances I was talking about something like a standard predator being able to take a different sponson choice like hurricane bolters or heavy flamers.

I'm hoping for more things like the land raider Helios, Promethius, the damocles rhino, and I guess the land raider redeemer. All of these are significant variants of standard items and all were created by codex chapters the Salamanders, Red Scorpions and Fire Lords. I'm not looking for something new like the Assault ram, just something with a good ammount of change.

There were rumors about a ship to ship expansion that GW was working on... I wonder if they simply hand that over to FW... maybe for taking so much from them?

warboss wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:Furthermore, Blood Angels are one of those Chapters(like the Ultramarines) the ability to near-instantaneously replace their casualties due to the fact that they recruit exclusively from one world(which they own, and maintain a constant presence on).

95% losses is a joke in that case, especially with gene-seed that's pretty much universally compatible with your population base.

Kanluwen wrote:And you do realize that it's not nearly as lengthy as you think, right? It's a few years, at most, depending on the age of the recipient.

where are you getting this grossly incorrect info from? it takes several years MINIMUM to simply implant ONE marine with all the glands necessary to make him a space marine. if all you want is a steroid freak with the training of a veteran guardsmen, then you're done. it takes additional years to actually train him to the level of a full marine. if you're talking about 95% casualties in a chapter, that takes hundreds of years to fix (in order to get enough marines to veteran training status). in the novels, the blood angels lost less than half the amount described in the space hulk schlock and they had to TITHE their successor chapters for scouts and recent advancements to full marines to make up for their losses.

First, lets just point out that the story was republished fluff from before GW had established chapter size. So thats why it doesn't fit.

Second, 995 men, doesn't necessarily mean just space marines. It could means servitors and support personel that were brought onto the Space Hulk to support a protracted campaign. It doesn't say and it doesn't make it clear one way or the other if it was just "marines." Otherwise we can simply count out the 5 special characters that old and say everyone else died.

Third, fluff has mentioned chapters being wiped out or being nearly wiped out before, where "replacements" and equipment may simply be moved around from other near decemiated chapters. Since it is a first founding chapter and has as many second founding chapters, I'm sure marines from those chapters might be diverted to keep their progenitor chapter viable, whether permenantly or temporarily I'm sure it'd be taken as a matter of duty and honor. Not just scouts, but more. So that is how they could hypothetically rebuild.

aka_mythos wrote:Second, 995 men, doesn't necessarily mean just space marines. It could means servitors and support personel that were brought onto the Space Hulk to support a protracted campaign. It doesn't say and it doesn't make it clear one way or the other if it was just "marines." Otherwise we can simply count out the 5 special characters that old and say everyone else died.

Third, fluff has mentioned chapters being wiped out or being nearly wiped out before, where "replacements" and equipment may simply be moved around from other near decemiated chapters. Since it is a first founding chapter and has as many second founding chapters, I'm sure marines from those chapters might be diverted to keep their progenitor chapter viable, whether permenantly or temporarily I'm sure it'd be taken as a matter of duty and honor. Not just scouts, but more. So that is how they could hypothetically rebuild.

pm sent. i don't want to derail this thread further. you're wrong on several accounts.

Has anyone heard if one of the special characters is from the Howling Griffons? Or if they are releasing a Decal sheet, rhino doors, or a brass etch for them?

Not that I have seen

ShumaGorath wrote:

plastictrees wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:It's not an actual name. Sure sounds german though.

I think ShumaGorath is being heavily influenced by his avatar.

Nah, I thought it was german and thats about the only way to pronounce is without making physically impossible sounds. I looked it up after people took issue and it's not listed in any of the naming websites I looked at, it doesn't appear to exist. My assumption is that the writer was making up a name to sound vaguely european.

Technically, lufgt doesn't mean anything, nor is it pronounceable - Lugft, however, in linguistic terms, is a modern approximation of an Old German (old in this case being Dark Ages and older) word which now appears in modern German as luft (as in Lufthansa, Luftwaffe etc). The 'g', so positioned, is silent and means his name is lu'ft not lufgt.

This means that Huron's name means air. Interestingly, the same term 'lugft' can be found as an archaic chess term for the practice of swapping the position of a rook and a king...

also, @Andrewdrexler - there are Howling Griffons Characters - I'm pretty sure MajorWesJanson over on Warseer got a good look at the proof copy at Games Day Baltimore and mentioned at least one.

These are all the special characters in IA9. I'd imagine one of them is for the Griffons:

Chaplain Dreadnought Titus
Lugft Huron, the Tyrant of Badab -Astral Claws
Captain Corien Sumatris
Armanneus Valthex
Lieutenant Commander Anton Narvaez
Magister Sevrin Loth -Red Scorpions
Lord High Commander Carab Culln -Red Scorpions
Captain Tarnus Vale
Lias Issodon
Malakim Phoros
Captain Mordaci Blaylock
Knight-Captain Elam Courbray -Marines Errant??
The Tyrant's Legion

Added who we know they belong to and my one guess.

So assuming those are true, and that one of these guys is an Astral Claws Venerable Dread, that leaves six chapters covered in the book and six names.