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2011/01/19 21:31:54
Subject: Re:RPGs, a dying breed? And is Bioware too formulaic?
Neither is any space travel in any sci-fi book ever
So aside from the silly monoliths and giant space fetus, 2001 isn't plausible?
@Melissia, you continue to ignore examples and descriptions of hard SciFi. You ignore the 'planet of hat' species and inconsistent logic in Mass Effect. Apparently anything that isn't a sweeping galactic drama with dozens of alien species and super psionic freaks isn't science fiction to you.
... which is funny, considering I mentioned sci-fi with neither of those things in this very thread as one of my examples of hard science fiction.
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
2011/01/19 21:33:42
Subject: RPGs, a dying breed? And is Bioware too formulaic?
Amaya wrote:And yet you try to refer to Mass Effect as hard scifi.
And your point is?
I believe it is. It explains itself using real-world science, generally obeys the laws of physics, and so on. It has some fantastical effects that are enough within the realm of plausibility to be categorized as such for me.
It's not as much hard sci-fi as, say, Battletech (which I mentioned earlier), but it's still certainly not "soft sci-fi", which doesn't even bother to try and explain it because it knows that its fiction is cool enough on its own. 40k falls into soft sci-fi more frequently than not for example, with oftentimes the effects of its weapons either barely explained, or inconsistently so, because it runs on rule of cool. Mass Effect is far more hard sci-fi than 40k.
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
2011/01/19 21:42:00
Subject: Re:RPGs, a dying breed? And is Bioware too formulaic?
Amaya wrote:So aside from the silly monoliths and giant space fetus, 2001 isn't plausible?
Yes apart from all the implausible parts 2001 is plausible
Also i was talking about any movie with reasonable extra solar space travel
If it's done via FTL than it isn't plausible. There are plenty of examples of interstellar travel done without the benefit of FTL.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Melissia wrote:
Amaya wrote:And yet you try to refer to Mass Effect as hard scifi.
And your point is?
I believe it is. It explains itself using real-world science, generally obeys the laws of physics, and so on. It has some fantastical effects that are enough within the realm of plausibility to be categorized as such for me.
It's not as much hard sci-fi as, say, Battletech (which I mentioned earlier), but it's still certainly not "soft sci-fi", which doesn't even bother to try and explain it because it knows that its fiction is cool enough on its own. 40k falls into soft sci-fi more frequently than not for example, with oftentimes the effects of its weapons either barely explained, or inconsistently so, because it runs on rule of cool. Mass Effect is far more hard sci-fi than 40k.
'
Simply trying to explaining something doesn't make it good science. We simply do not know enough about dark matter and dark energy at this moment to say what they could be useful for. It's a big leap to go and assume that dark energy will grant us telekinesis and all sorts of other goodies. Yes, Mass Effect is much harder than 40k. In terms of scientific plausibility, 40k is a complete joke.
From softer to harder
40k Star Wars
Star Trek
Babylon 5
Mass Effect
2001
Ender's Game (the first book, the rest of the series gets weird)
Alien (the movie, not the series)
Gattaca
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/01/19 21:50:02
Amaya wrote:So aside from the silly monoliths and giant space fetus, 2001 isn't plausible?
Yes apart from all the implausible parts 2001 is plausible
Also i was talking about any movie with reasonable extra solar space travel
If it's done via FTL than it isn't plausible. There are plenty of examples of interstellar travel done without the benefit of FTL.
But impracticle, expecially for a game (hey you want to wait 10 years to get to the next system?)
The point is the definitaion of "hard sci-fi" is not completely agreed upon, you seem to be thinking that nothing that cant happen in real life can be included when in many people's definition this is not the case
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Amaya wrote:Ender's Game
Yes little doctor (was that what it was called) and all that (ftl communication, crazy technology that effects physics)
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/01/19 21:54:21
2011/01/19 21:56:37
Subject: RPGs, a dying breed? And is Bioware too formulaic?
Amaya wrote:It was considered 'far out' when the novel was written.
Fair enough.
An example of hard-ish scifi would be blade runner in that dispite its soft elements (flying cars anyone?) it doesn't outright ignore laws of physics by including psychics or laws of common sense by having planet of hats races whereas a classic example of soft scifi would be avatar with its generic hippy race that sometimes slips into proud warrior race guy and "unobtainium".
Mass effect 1 was harder than mass effect 2 but was still on the soft end of the scale.
2011/01/19 22:10:33
Subject: RPGs, a dying breed? And is Bioware too formulaic?
Amaya wrote:It was considered 'far out' when the novel was written.
Fair enough.
An example of hard-ish scifi would be blade runner in that dispite its soft elements (flying cars anyone?) it doesn't outright ignore laws of physics by including psychics or laws of common sense by having planet of hats races whereas a classic example of soft scifi would be avatar with its generic hippy race that sometimes slips into proud warrior race guy and "unobtainium".
Mass effect 1 was harder than mass effect 2 but was still on the soft end of the scale.
Amaya wrote:Simply trying to explaining something doesn't make it good science.
That's good, because fiction authors aren't scientists anyway.
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
2011/01/20 02:16:10
Subject: RPGs, a dying breed? And is Bioware too formulaic?
Manchu wrote:@KC: Don't feel bad about buying DA. I bought it twice thanks to people very articulately defending it on this forum and others. I figured maybe I just hadn't given it enough of a chance, something like when I played Morrowind for the first time. As it turns out, the game just isn't for me. And EA are a bunch of dicks.
It's y'know, it's ok I guess. It has some pretty boring combat and dungeon crawling but there's no doubt that it was made by Bioware B-Team.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Manchu wrote:I'd say Shepherd is a good example of a Mary Sue. I don't think that's what's wrong with ME2.
What protangonist in a video game is not!?
Maybe Isaac from Dead space? I dunno. I don't care if that was a rhetorical question, btw.
May the the blessings of His Grace the Emperor tumble down upon you like a golden fog. (Only a VERY select few will get this reference. And it's not from 40k. )
2011/01/20 02:39:50
Subject: RPGs, a dying breed? And is Bioware too formulaic?
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
2011/01/20 03:58:01
Subject: RPGs, a dying breed? And is Bioware too formulaic?
GalacticDefender wrote:
Maybe Isaac from Dead space? I dunno. I don't care if that was a rhetorical question, btw.
I can't wait for that game, Isaac is supposed to be messed up to the point where there will be times where you don't know if your shooting civilians or Necromorphs
I've never feared Death or Dying. I've only feared never Trying.
2011/01/20 05:27:28
Subject: RPGs, a dying breed? And is Bioware too formulaic?
'A Scanner Darkly' by Philip K. Dick would be a perfect example of hard science fiction, even if the book does not revolve around it's science fiction elements. In fact, most of his sci-fi is fairly grounded in reality.
Anything that takes place outside the bounds of planet earth requires a fair amount of suspension of disbelief.
Pain is an illusion of the senses, Despair an illusion of the mind.
The Tainted - Pending
I sold most of my miniatures, and am currently working on bringing my own vision of the Four Colors of Chaos to fruition
2011/01/20 10:09:31
Subject: Re:RPGs, a dying breed? And is Bioware too formulaic?
OP, if you are going to continue like this, at least change the subject to "Sci-Fi: do you like it hard, or soft?" and ask for a mod to move it to the right subforum.
Fatum Iustum Stultorum
Fiat justitia ruat caelum
2011/01/20 18:49:57
Subject: Re:RPGs, a dying breed? And is Bioware too formulaic?
So do we have any other rpgs to look forward to, besides TES: V? Is there going to be a Lost Odyssey 2? Has anyone played Chaos Rings either? I heard that one was good. I don't want to give up on RPGs, but I am about ready to break out my SNES.
2011/01/20 18:52:46
Subject: RPGs, a dying breed? And is Bioware too formulaic?
Soladrin wrote:erm how about.. ME 3? It's been announced you know. (I'm not looking forward to it, but thought i'd share)
Oh that's a given. You know I wonder if there is a way I can convince you to like Mass Effect. If I play ODST will you give it another chance? Of course if you did actually play through it an didn't like it, then there isn't much I can do for you...
2011/01/20 19:17:57
Subject: RPGs, a dying breed? And is Bioware too formulaic?
Lord Scythican wrote:So do we have any other rpgs to look forward to, besides TES: V? Is there going to be a Lost Odyssey 2? Has anyone played Chaos Rings either? I heard that one was good. I don't want to give up on RPGs, but I am about ready to break out my SNES.
Has anyone played Chaos Rings? I got itunes gift card and I'm thinking I might as well use it on this very expensive (for IOS) game.
2011/01/20 23:15:18
Subject: RPGs, a dying breed? And is Bioware too formulaic?
TES V, Mass Effect 3, and Dragon Age 2 are the big ones coming out in 2011. Hopefully, TES V can bring back the Morrowind feel and Dragon Age 2 is a big improvement over DA: Origins.
Soladrin wrote:Doubt I ever will TBH, I just completely lost interest in it after finishing 1.
And all I've read on here hasn't changed anything, the thing that bored me in the game wasn't the gameplay, it's the setting itself.
It just felt like Star Wars with a different skin. (this is a bad thing for me)
You know I think this is probably the reason why I like it so much to be honest. I grew up with Star Wars and I loathe what it has become. I feel like they totally abandoned the old fans with all these clone wars crap. I collected the action figures into my 20's and only recently stopped collecting them once I realized that hasbro was only making a few that I wanted and I had to get them off ebay for 10 times the store price. I used to play the Star Wars D6 game religiously.
So I kind of have a void in the space science fiction area. Mass Effect filled that perfectly for me.
Btw, if anyone hates what Star Wars has become, read the recent novels. They are about the only thing worth looking into anymore.
2011/01/21 02:21:31
Subject: RPGs, a dying breed? And is Bioware too formulaic?
Amaya wrote:The FTL communication is the only extremely far out element in Ender's Game. What crazy technology that effects physics?
I was mainly pointing it out as an example of a novel with interstellar travel without FTL.
The battle room the kids even mention at one point that because its still attached to the rest of the station that wouldn't just mean there would immediately be no gravity in the room. There's a paragraph where the kids basically figure out they must be using some crazy tech
2011/01/24 05:28:34
Subject: RPGs, a dying breed? And is Bioware too formulaic?
I was, as people have seen, very surprised and pleased with Mass Effect 2 and eagerly await Mass Effect 3.
So other than, Dragon Age 2 (which can't get any worse), Skyrim (which can't get any worse), and Mass Effect 3 (which has a good chance of sucking), what other RPGs do we have to look forward to in the future?
)
The Tainted - Pending
