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Soladrin wrote:Ugh, no, JRPG's are just a huge no-no for me, and I've tried a few by now. Their just never actually.... fun.

The earlier Final Fantasy games were fun. Now they're just really weird.

Secret of Mana, and especially the sequel, Secret of Mana 2 (Or Seiken Densetsu 3 if you prefer), were quite fun. I've lost track of the amount of times I've played through those two....although with number two, I found it was always more fun to avoid the spellcasters, meant more time doing stuff and less time watching a pretty light fly around the screen.

I suppose I am also of the mind that RPGs have degraded in quality over the years, but I don't think they've degraded to the point they are a dying breed, but instead have become the MMO genre.

Storyline-wise, I am certainly of the mind that they've degraded over the last decade. They aren't getting the same emphasis they once did, with the game designers catering to the younger gamers, who want 'pretty graphics' and fast action. (A generalisation to be sure. But, as I've watched younger players play through games for the first time and skip dialogue, not caring for the story at all, just wanting to get to the action, one I feel reasonably justified in.) I am yet to come across a RPG that has engaged me on the same level as the Baldur's Gate series, and to a slightly lesser extent, Neverwinter Nights and it's expansions (Not the second one. That was ok, but in no way comparable to the first in my opinion). The storyline was excellent, and, while not as free-form as the Elder Scrolls, you still had a wide world to explore and destroy , but with more interesting character development and NPC interaction. (I was never a big fan of the Elder Scrolls, although I didn't mind Morrowind.)

Single-player games are a dying breed. It's been quoted from EA, and is visable in the releases from other companies, that the Games Developers believe the multi-player industry, especially the MMO and online FPS industries, are where the consumer buys best....their conclusions are fairly solid too, alot of the bigger and more popular games of recent years (Halo, Modern Warfare, World of Warcraft, Starcraft 2), they all had/have a thriving multi-player community. Most have a single-player component, one that virtually everyone plays through, but most spend more time in the multi-player than they do in the single-player....especially for games like Modern Warfare and Starcraft, it's generally alot more. I wonder if because those on these boards have their wargaming for their social gaming activity, they crave the multi-player less than others?

VenerableBrotherPelinore wrote: I wonder if because those on these boards have their wargaming for their social gaming activity, they crave the multi-player less than others?

I would have to agree to that point as when I spend time at GW, I come home and yes i play MMORPGs, but not to socialise but just to kill and escape reality and socialise if i want to.

OT: I dont think RPGs are dead yet, some serieses are however, imo DA:O(the combat was so boring that i wanted to sleep while playing it so much so any "sex appeal" from Morrigan was gone, imo great sounding story cancelled out by bad combat system) was the crash of Bioware, while ME2 didnt burn them it didnt save them either, too much changed from ME1 for my liking, wheres the megalong boss fight dammit!? (Saren = great boss fight, Human robot thing = boring boss fight) As far as other RPGs go, Oblivion will never die for me i love the game to bits and its the xbox 360 version, i just drool when i think of the PC mods for it *wipes chin*. Fable however is on a sliding scale and not in a good way, 1st was epic imo 2nd = decent but not great, 3rd was eh different but bit more enjoyable. If your looking at JRPGs then the strongest (in Japan anyway) is probly Monster Hunter, i have no idea why but a storyless game where you kill and farm so many different beasts is a hit(and i enjoy it very much aswell). As for TBC that is pretty much dead last i seen was Lost Oddessy and FFXIII, not even 4 disks kept me playing.

IMO i dont think its the games which have changed much but more the players, think about it this way you wouldnt eat somethin as a kid but now you crave it, taking from that example you could be more drawn to FPS than RPGs quite simply because you want more action. This is of course personal opinion and it may not be the case. For those complaining MMORPGs are too "cookie cutter" and not innovative then you have big old World of Warcraft for that as it is the "Big Daddy" of MMORPGs and anything made after it will be compared to it.

Saying you love Oblivion and hate ME2 isn't the best way to establish your knowledge of RPGs.

ME2 is easily the best Bioware game released in years, I think it's the best game they've ever made, they think it's the best game ever made, and aside from some elitist RPG holdouts/Halo fanboys it's universally regarded as a great game, if not the pinnacle of PC gaming.

BrookM wrote:All I remember from Dragon Age is the excessive amount of fake blood.

Like someone shot ketchup packets at you with a sling shot.

Amaya wrote:Saying you love Oblivion and hate ME2 isn't the best way to establish your knowledge of RPGs.

ME2 is easily the best Bioware game released in years, I think it's the best game they've ever made, they think it's the best game ever made, and aside from some elitist RPG holdouts/Halo fanboys it's universally regarded as a great game, if not the pinnacle of PC gaming.

Im not sure if that comment was directed at me or not but will reply regardless, it may seem as my post did suggest I didnt like ME2 thats not true however its a great game but far too easy and basic compared to ME1.

the ME series and ES series are both great in their own right, but from what I consider the basic RPG element then the ES is probly the best in that sence. Still want ME3 and ES:Skyrim, cant wait to see what the reavers will do next haha, and also that Skyrim will be a new world to explore away from the events in Oblivion, i just hope they dont include guns like the Fable series did, that was a very bad move imo.

Amaya wrote:Saying you love Oblivion and hate ME2 isn't the best way to establish your knowledge of RPGs.

ME2 is easily the best Bioware game released in years, I think it's the best game they've ever made, they think it's the best game ever made, and aside from some elitist RPG holdouts/Halo fanboys it's universally regarded as a great game, if not the pinnacle of PC gaming.

I'm sorry but what the feth?

ME2 is the blandest sack of gak since bread sauce, at least TES has character.

corpsesarefun wrote:

Amaya wrote:Saying you love Oblivion and hate ME2 isn't the best way to establish your knowledge of RPGs.

ME2 is easily the best Bioware game released in years, I think it's the best game they've ever made, they think it's the best game ever made, and aside from some elitist RPG holdouts/Halo fanboys it's universally regarded as a great game, if not the pinnacle of PC gaming.

I'm sorry but what the feth?

ME2 is the blandest sack of gak since bread sauce, at least TES has character.

TES has characters? "guffaw" Everyones from uncanny valley.

Soladrin wrote:

corpsesarefun wrote:

Amaya wrote:Saying you love Oblivion and hate ME2 isn't the best way to establish your knowledge of RPGs.

ME2 is easily the best Bioware game released in years, I think it's the best game they've ever made, they think it's the best game ever made, and aside from some elitist RPG holdouts/Halo fanboys it's universally regarded as a great game, if not the pinnacle of PC gaming.

I'm sorry but what the feth?

ME2 is the blandest sack of gak since bread sauce, at least TES has character.

TES has characters? "guffaw" Everyones from uncanny valley.

I would rather talk to inbreds from the uncanny valley than generic characters.

How the hell is ME2 bland?

After playing Mass Effect the past few weeks, I picked up Dragon Age Origins for a tenner. After my intial go, I have to assume it was made by a different sub studio.

It's really poor in comparrison to Mass Effect, the blood thing is way over the top, and like a glaring 'how cool are we for putting this in' card to cover up the holes in the rest of the gameplay as the controls are very fudgy compared to Mass Effect.

The loss of an actual voice was huge, Mass Effect is fast becoming one of my fave games for the voice work. So how disapointed was I when after hearing the Dwarf speak to my character, I selected her first response and he just replies.
Part of the fun of Mass effect is seeing what the character would actually say in comparrison to the choice you made.

Maybe it improves as I go on, and to be fair I've only done one starting story, but so far Mass Effect is miles better than Dragon Age, and I've not even started ME2 yet.

Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote:After playing Mass Effect the past few weeks, I picked up Dragon Age Origins for a tenner. After my intial go, I have to assume it was made by a different sub studio.

It's really poor in comparrison to Mass Effect, the blood thing is way over the top, and like a glaring 'how cool are we for putting this in' card to cover up the holes in the rest of the gameplay as the controls are very fudgy compared to Mass Effect.

The loss of an actual voice was huge, Mass Effect is fast becoming one of my fave games for the voice work. So how disapointed was I when after hearing the Dwarf speak to my character, I selected her first response and he just replies.
Part of the fun of Mass effect is seeing what the character would actually say in comparrison to the choice you made.

Maybe it improves as I go on, and to be fair I've only done one starting story, but so far Mass Effect is miles better than Dragon Age, and I've not even started ME2 yet.

I'm one of the few rare ones who was able to get into Dragon Age more than Mass Effect, even if I'll concede that Mass Effect was the better game. The loss of voice is a big one, and I do hope they'll change that for the sequel.

However, the addition of Tim Curry as part of the voice talent is sheer awesomeness.

What I liked more about ME over DA:O was more the visual effects than anything else. See, ME, being a science fiction game, has lots of very beautiful, colorful visuals, visuals that a standard brown, green, and grey monotony that most fantasy games end up being just can't manage to match.

Still, I greatly enjoyed DA:O, and am waiting to be able to afford its expansion pack and then later on its sequel when it comes out. But Homefront and Retribution are before it right now.

Ah, will look forward to Mr Curry.

Also to be fair to Dragon Age as I noted, I've only done one starting story, the Dwarf Noble, and I did feel the story part of that was quite well done.

I just found the actual combat a odd, might be the shift over from ranged to close mind. Will continue it this week and see if I adjust to it. The blood is totally over the top though.

Eitherway the loss of voice is a great shame, especially after you pick one in create mod. Although that only seems there to make almost 'MMO' like responses when you press the attack button too many times.

As to the visuals, I'd imagine Dragon Age will struggle there, some of the effects in Mass Effect have been awesome, and I suspect ME2 will only get better.

I guess for me it can be the little things that completely draw me in. What does Mass Effect do right? The opening theme and introductory text.

When you get that first intro title card giving you a quick recap of history so far, you get to the point where they state "They called it the greatest discovery in human history. The civilizations of the galaxy call it... MASS EFFECT."

I like the way they're disscussing your background when you the intro's happening hate Eden prime though
also that idle theme

corpsesarefun wrote:

Amaya wrote:Saying you love Oblivion and hate ME2 isn't the best way to establish your knowledge of RPGs.

ME2 is easily the best Bioware game released in years, I think it's the best game they've ever made, they think it's the best game ever made, and aside from some elitist RPG holdouts/Halo fanboys it's universally regarded as a great game, if not the pinnacle of PC gaming.

I'm sorry but what the feth?

ME2 is the blandest sack of gak since bread sauce, at least TES has character.

You obviously never played ME2. Anyone who actually completed the game and dismisses all the characters in it as 'bland' either never played it or is a troll.

TES was great and then they released Oblivion. Oblivion is the epitome of bland. TES is not known for having strong character development.

I haven't played ME2, but I did play 1, and I thought it was boring as hell, that said, so are any of the TES games.

ME1 is boring as hell. The storyline is nearly cut and paste from KotOR.

I am another who greatly enjoys dragon age. I have the expansion and all of the DLCs. I havent beaten it yet, but I imagine that I am close to the end, just have to hit up denerim... I will admit that melee combat is somewhat boring. You really need to fight for the best positioning on harder difficulties, or you will not make it far. Not to mention the melee attacks (and bow attacks for that matter) are not flashy, most of your special abilities just look like you are swinging your weapon with a little more force = / OFC, I play a combat mage which is very fun and effective. It combines melee action and tactics with the big flashy effects of spell casting. The game does get more exiting as you play through and aquire more party members, as each of them come with more skills to use, more tactics to think about, and their own quest lines. You also need to think about how they interact with each other, which can be difficult.

I do wish they had the same speech as mass effect though.

Amaya wrote:ME1 is boring as hell. The storyline is nearly cut and paste from KotOR.

Uh... no?

It has similarities, but then by that definition all RPGs are cut and paste from other RPGs.

A hero recently inducted into a super elite special police force is guided by visions of an ancient civilization in his quest to discover and destroy a powerful evil weapon that controls the minds of its followers.

Both games feature:

"super elite special police force" Jedi and Spectres.
Ancient civilization that holds the key to defeating the evil enemy. Rakata and Protheans.
Both games feature heavy emphasis on visions.
A fallen defender now seeks to conquer the people he once protected. Darth Malak and Saren.
A powerful construction that twists the minds of those aboard it. Star Forge and Sovereign.
A search for an ancient construction hidden on or around a lost world. The Star Forge and the Conduit.

Amaya wrote:You obviously never played ME2. Anyone who actually completed the game and dismisses all the characters in it as 'bland' either never played it or is a troll.

Learn to speak for yourself and not others boy.

BrookM wrote:

Amaya wrote:You obviously never played ME2. Anyone who actually completed the game and dismisses all the characters in it as 'bland' either never played it or is a troll.

Learn to speak for yourself and not others boy.

He's right though. I never played ME2...





because the first one was boring enough

*duck and covers*

Amaya wrote:A hero recently inducted into a super elite special police force is guided by visions of an ancient civilization in his quest to discover and destroy a powerful evil weapon that controls the minds of its followers.

Both games feature:

"super elite special police force" Jedi and Spectres.
Ancient civilization that holds the key to defeating the evil enemy. Rakata and Protheans.
Both games feature heavy emphasis on visions.
A fallen defender now seeks to conquer the people he once protected. Darth Malak and Saren.
A powerful construction that twists the minds of those aboard it. Star Forge and Sovereign.
A search for an ancient construction hidden on or around a lost world. The Star Forge and the Conduit.

IE, standard epic plot points. I could twist all of these to fit Lord of the Rings, too.

Slarg232 wrote:

BrookM wrote:

Amaya wrote:You obviously never played ME2. Anyone who actually completed the game and dismisses all the characters in it as 'bland' either never played it or is a troll.

Learn to speak for yourself and not others boy.

He's right though. I never played ME2...





because the first one was boring enough

*duck and covers*

HERETIC!

Only kidding, tbh i can tell why people wouldnt like it. I was put off it for ages quite simply for the fact that it was Sci-fi themed, the only reason i got ME1 was due to it being pre-owned for £5 so i wasnt losing much if i didnt like it. that being said that £5 was worth it

Imo if you didnt like the 1st 1 then dont bother with the second, as the second is a watered down version of the 1st with a rather dull story. Only the loyalty quests make it a bit more interesting.

Think Biowar focused more on the graphics than story in ME2, just hopeing ME3 is the best of both combined!

Melissia wrote:

Amaya wrote:A hero recently inducted into a super elite special police force is guided by visions of an ancient civilization in his quest to discover and destroy a powerful evil weapon that controls the minds of its followers.

Both games feature:

"super elite special police force" Jedi and Spectres.
Ancient civilization that holds the key to defeating the evil enemy. Rakata and Protheans.
Both games feature heavy emphasis on visions.
A fallen defender now seeks to conquer the people he once protected. Darth Malak and Saren.
A powerful construction that twists the minds of those aboard it. Star Forge and Sovereign.
A search for an ancient construction hidden on or around a lost world. The Star Forge and the Conduit.

IE, standard epic plot points. I could twist all of these to fit Lord of the Rings, too.

You can, but the similarities don't fit nearly as well.


@Johnscot10: A lot of people who disliked ME, loved ME2, including me. ME1 is a above average RPG with a generic plot and weak TPS elements. Entirely too much of the game is spent in the Mako. I know some posters here loved the Mako, but I don't think anyone picks up an RPG so that they can drive a vehicle around. Calling a game 'watered down' is the catch all insult that RPG elitists throw out at every game they happen to dislike. Mass Effect 2 isn't even watered down. The MQ in both games lacks originality, but the focus in ME2 is on character development and the MQ is secondary.

Amaya wrote:
@Johnscot10: A lot of people who disliked ME, loved ME2, including me. ME1 is a above average RPG with a generic plot and weak TPS elements. Entirely too much of the game is spent in the Mako. I know some posters here loved the Mako, but I don't think anyone picks up an RPG so that they can drive a vehicle around. Calling a game 'watered down' is the catch all insult that RPG elitists throw out at every game they happen to dislike. Mass Effect 2 isn't even watered down. The MQ in both games lacks originality, but the focus in ME2 is on character development and the MQ is secondary.

Hmm thats a first iv been called an "elitest", as for disliking the game thats not true. While the plot for both games does need work, i feel ME2 needs it more though, it seemed to me that Bioware was more interested in getting flashy graphics at the expense of other parts but some parts are still good like the character development i cant fault that, wish game companies would learn its not about what graphics they use but more the gameplay(lookin at minecraft here lol). As for the Mako i cant even remember driving that thing in ME1 but do remember it in ME2, maybe it was just more enjoyable or the fact the quest it was connected to was good.

Just remember this is all personal opinion and ME1 was batter in mine.

johnscott10 wrote:

Amaya wrote:
@Johnscot10: A lot of people who disliked ME, loved ME2, including me. ME1 is a above average RPG with a generic plot and weak TPS elements. Entirely too much of the game is spent in the Mako. I know some posters here loved the Mako, but I don't think anyone picks up an RPG so that they can drive a vehicle around. Calling a game 'watered down' is the catch all insult that RPG elitists throw out at every game they happen to dislike. Mass Effect 2 isn't even watered down. The MQ in both games lacks originality, but the focus in ME2 is on character development and the MQ is secondary.

Hmm thats a first iv been called an "elitest", as for disliking the game thats not true. While the plot for both games does need work, i feel ME2 needs it more though, it seemed to me that Bioware was more interested in getting flashy graphics at the expense of other parts but some parts are still good like the character development i cant fault that, wish game companies would learn its not about what graphics they use but more the gameplay(lookin at minecraft here lol). As for the Mako i cant even remember driving that thing in ME1 but do remember it in ME2, maybe it was just more enjoyable or the fact the quest it was connected to was good.

Just remember this is all personal opinion and ME1 was batter in mine.

There is no Mako in ME2 and you use the Mako in ME1 at Therum, Feros, Noveria, Ilos, and Virmire at the very least.

Amaya wrote:
There is no Mako in ME2 and you use the Mako in ME1 at Therum, Feros, Noveria, Ilos, and Virmire at the very least.

Ok maybe it wasnt the Mako but there is still the mission where you drive around, in the Krogan world iirc that and the mission in the DLC, pretty much the same concept.