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Zweischneid wrote:

McNinja wrote:There's a difference between showing up and declaring you want to play a brand new scenario with brand new deployment rules and showing up and asking if you can use a FW model.

How so? Ard Boyz senarios are clearly made by GW, have the "offical" stamp and are intended to by used in conjunction with the 40K rules. By your own argument, they should be just as "legal" as a given FW unit. You're foppish response of "bwwwahahaha but they are not the same" just futher illustrates your inherent bias that is not grounded in any sound reasoning.

They aren't the same thing. They really aren't. It is completely different. Are they both legal? yeah, but the reaction would be completely different. It's a model, not a whole game.

McNinja wrote:And that has even less to do with me bringing a single FW model that takes up one of 3 HS slots on the FOC. If we are playing a planetfall game, then maybe, but we most likely aren't, so that point is moot.

Neither are we playing a FW-game most likely.

WTF is a FW-game? It's a normal fething game with a singel FW model. If anything, it would be an apocalypse game, as the unit is listed in the 2nd ed. Apoc book.

AnUnearthlyChilde wrote:It is because a lot of people come across as if they are telling others this is what they should do.

This game is meant to be fun, take the blows your dealt and roll with them, thats how it should be played.

I'd love to do that.

But when I unload my 6 Elite-slot 60 Terminators as per Planetfall rules, an official GW 'Ard Boyz scenario to replace the same-old-same-old pitched battles and my custom Zweischneid-Tank, all FW-proponents suddenly get all prissy and say it ain't the same.

The rampant hypocrisy of it is what gets me.

Condescension is not becoming.

Of course I understand it, but equally I don't see why I should have to play the game by their "interpretation" of the rules.

savvy?

McNinja wrote:]WTF is a FW-game? It's a normal fething game with a singel FW model. If anything, it would be an apocalypse game, as the unit is listed in the 2nd ed. Apoc book.

Just as well. Call it what you like. But it is not a normal 40K game because you are using more than the normal GW rules and Codexes. If you define a Planetfall-game as using the Planetfall book, than using "some" Forgeworld Book would be a FW-game. If it's the Apoc book, than it may well be an Apoc-game. If its an IA, than I guess it's an IA-game. Or call it by the respective title a Badab-game, or a Kastrel-Novem game or whatever if that is more precise for you.

And the reaction, as with the Ard Boyz mission, would be comparable, because they all violate expectations of a normal, regular 40K game if dropped on an unsuspecting player unannounced.

Zweischneid wrote:

AnUnearthlyChilde wrote:It is because a lot of people come across as if they are telling others this is what they should do.

This game is meant to be fun, take the blows your dealt and roll with them, thats how it should be played.

I'd love to do that.

But when I unload my 6 Elite-slot 60 Terminators as per Planetfall rules, an official GW 'Ard Boyz scenario to replace the same-old-same-old pitched battles and my custom Zweischneid-Tank, all FW-proponents suddenly get all prissy and say it ain't the same.

The rampant hypocrisy of it is what gets me.

If I know I'm turning up to a planetfall game, then I'll take whats dealt to me tbh. tbh, 60 terminators sounds nommy to much on

It's fething Planetstrike! PLANETSTRIKE!!

AnUnearthlyChilde wrote:
If I know I'm turning up to a planetfall game, then I'll take whats dealt to me tbh. tbh, 60 terminators sounds nommy to much on

If I know I am turning up to a Forgeword game, than I'll be more than happy to play with and/or against some Forgeworld units.

Zweischneid wrote:

AnUnearthlyChilde wrote:
If I know I'm turning up to a planetfall game, then I'll take whats dealt to me tbh. tbh, 60 terminators sounds nommy to much on

If I know I am turning up to a Forgeword game, than I'll be more than happy to play with and/or against some Forgeworld units.

But forgeworld have units to supplement 40k armies, I don't see it as the same thing as playing planetstrike...

AnUnearthlyChilde wrote:

But forgeworld have units to supplement 40k armies, I don't see it as the same thing as playing planetstrike...

Where is the difference? You supplement your army with a few choice FW tanks, I supplement mine with a double-number of Elite slots!

But Planetstrike is a senario supplement.

FW is a model Supplement.


Two completely different things. Also, You can't use a planet strike FOC in a tourney, but you can use FW models.

AnUnearthlyChilde wrote:

Zweischneid wrote:

AnUnearthlyChilde wrote:
If I know I'm turning up to a planetfall game, then I'll take whats dealt to me tbh. tbh, 60 terminators sounds nommy to much on

If I know I am turning up to a Forgeword game, than I'll be more than happy to play with and/or against some Forgeworld units.

But forgeworld have units to supplement 40k armies, I don't see it as the same thing as playing planetstrike...

Planetstrike suppliments 40k armies in exactly the same way. Your opinion of the game differs from mine.

AnUnearthlyChilde wrote:But Planetstrike is a senario supplement.

FW is a model Supplement.

No. These are both suppliments. Period.

AnUnearthlyChilde wrote: Also, You can't use a planet strike FOC in a tourney, but you can use FW models.

Completely irrelevant.

It's called bringing more than one list. If the opponent declines the FW rules, then just pull out your normal list. No list tailoring involved. And you ALWAYS have to show your opponent your list.

Also, you misused rules lawyer.

Of course anybody has the right of denying to play against me if I play FW, but if they are not willing to compromise a bit and play my FW, I am definitely not going to be playing them at all.

kronk wrote:

AnUnearthlyChilde wrote:

Zweischneid wrote:

AnUnearthlyChilde wrote:
If I know I'm turning up to a planetfall game, then I'll take whats dealt to me tbh. tbh, 60 terminators sounds nommy to much on

If I know I am turning up to a Forgeword game, than I'll be more than happy to play with and/or against some Forgeworld units.

But forgeworld have units to supplement 40k armies, I don't see it as the same thing as playing planetstrike...

Planetstrike suppliments 40k armies in exactly the same way. Your opinion of the game differs from mine.

Obviously.

kronk wrote:

AnUnearthlyChilde wrote:But Planetstrike is a senario supplement.

FW is a model Supplement.

No. These are both suppliments. Period.

Well spotted, but they have two separate defined purposes. If it was workshops intention to make FW defined and separate from GW, then they would have included a rule which states you must ask opponents permission to use, like they used to do with Special characters.

kronk wrote:

AnUnearthlyChilde wrote: Also, You can't use a planet strike FOC in a tourney, but you can use FW models.

Completely irrelevant.

Why is it? Planetstrike is not meant to be an "every game" supplement, FW on the other hand is meant to be there to give your army something different from the norm and still be an "every game" kinda thing.

Zweischneid wrote:

English Assassin wrote:One is set of scenarios drawn up for a specific tournament, the other rules and models into which your fellow players have invested time and money. Comparison between the two is specious to the point of being nonsensical.

So it is the models then? Fine. I made a custom-build, custom-rules Zweischneid Monster-Madness-Tank (c) for my army. I invested loads of time and money in it. It's a bit broken I admit, but arguably not worse than some Space Wolves cheese and having invested time and money in it, there can be no reason to deny me its use? Right. Oh, and I also add my lovingly painted 60 Th/SS Terminators as per Planetfall rules. It's official GW stuff after all.

Oh I see, all you have are straw man arguments.

I thought as much.

jgehunter wrote:

It's called bringing more than one list. If the opponent declines the FW rules, then just pull out your normal list. No list tailoring involved. And you ALWAYS have to show your opponent your list.

Also, you misused rules lawyer.

Of course anybody has the right of denying to play against me if I play FW, but if they are not willing to compromise a bit and play my FW, I am definitely not going to be playing them at all.

My sentiments exactly, It smacks of "if I don't know that I can kill it, then I won't play it". Seriously what are people afraid of?

AnUnearthlyChilde wrote:
Well spotted, but they have two separate defined purposes. If it was workshops intention to make FW defined and separate from GW, then they would have included a rule which states you must ask opponents permission to use, like they used to do with Special characters.

They do. It's at the beginning of every Forge World book.

English Assassin wrote:

Zweischneid wrote:

English Assassin wrote:One is set of scenarios drawn up for a specific tournament, the other rules and models into which your fellow players have invested time and money. Comparison between the two is specious to the point of being nonsensical.

So it is the models then? Fine. I made a custom-build, custom-rules Zweischneid Monster-Madness-Tank (c) for my army. I invested loads of time and money in it. It's a bit broken I admit, but arguably not worse than some Space Wolves cheese and having invested time and money in it, there can be no reason to deny me its use? Right. Oh, and I also add my lovingly painted 60 Th/SS Terminators as per Planetfall rules. It's official GW stuff after all.

Oh I see, all you have are straw man arguments.

I thought as much.

LOL

But when I unload my 6 Elite-slot 60 Terminators as per Planetfall rules, an official GW 'Ard Boyz scenario to replace the same-old-same-old pitched battles and my custom Zweischneid-Tank, all FW-proponents suddenly get all prissy and say it ain't the same.

PlanetSTRIKE is an entire scenario supplement, where you change both the gameplay rules in general for both the enemy and yourself. If you're going to take 60 terminators, your enemy gets to D6 Firestorm your field for free, along with making it night and your field dangerous terrain. Afterall you suddenly decided you wanted to play planetstrike, he gets his D6 S9 AP2 flame templates all over your field along with his strategem rules! Gonna be some good terminator burning.

A Forgeworld model requires no special scenario in place, and can be taken as an X FoC choice in a standard army.

kronk wrote:

AnUnearthlyChilde wrote:
Well spotted, but they have two separate defined purposes. If it was workshops intention to make FW defined and separate from GW, then they would have included a rule which states you must ask opponents permission to use, like they used to do with Special characters.

They do. It's at the beginning of every Forge World book.

Not true. I use Malanthropes from the IA Apoc 2nd Ed book, which allows me to take them in a standard 40k. and there is nothing at the beginning of that book which tells me to ask my opponents permission.

English Assassin wrote:

Zweischneid wrote:

English Assassin wrote:One is set of scenarios drawn up for a specific tournament, the other rules and models into which your fellow players have invested time and money. Comparison between the two is specious to the point of being nonsensical.

So it is the models then? Fine. I made a custom-build, custom-rules Zweischneid Monster-Madness-Tank (c) for my army. I invested loads of time and money in it. It's a bit broken I admit, but arguably not worse than some Space Wolves cheese and having invested time and money in it, there can be no reason to deny me its use? Right. Oh, and I also add my lovingly painted 60 Th/SS Terminators as per Planetfall rules. It's official GW stuff after all.

Oh I see, all you have are straw man arguments.

I thought as much.

They are only straw-arguments for you, because clearly any application of the rules you laid out to anything other than FW is evidently invalid to you (for unexplained reasons).

If anything, it shows that all those seemingly "neutral" reasoning of "FW is GW", "FW isn't quite so overpowered" "FW is offical stuff" are a rather thin veneer (or straw arguments) that just hide a rather ugly bias of "I want to play my FW just because", even if all rational basis for this has been shown to be non-existant.

All I did was apply the rules you made to justify your use of FW-stuff. If the results seem ludicrious to you, it just shows how ludicrious your own arguments are.

ZebioLizard2 wrote:

But when I unload my 6 Elite-slot 60 Terminators as per Planetfall rules, an official GW 'Ard Boyz scenario to replace the same-old-same-old pitched battles and my custom Zweischneid-Tank, all FW-proponents suddenly get all prissy and say it ain't the same.

PlanetSTRIKE is an entire scenario supplement, where you change both the gameplay rules in general for both the enemy and yourself. If you're going to take 60 terminators, your enemy gets to D6 Firestorm your field for free, along with making it night and your field dangerous terrain. Afterall you suddenly decided you wanted to play planetstrike, he gets his D6 S9 AP2 flame templates all over your field along with his strategem rules!

A Forgeworld model requires no special scenario in place, and can be taken as an X FoC choice in a standard army.

All I did was apply the rules you made to justify your use of FW-stuff. If the results seem ludicrious to you, it just shows how ludicrious your own arguments are.

Contemptor: Can be used as a FoC slot in normal warhammer games

Planetstrike: An entire supplement based around changing around entire rules for both the attacker and defender along with scenario rules, standard gameplay, and various other changes..

Here's the simple, you only have strawman arguments.

ZebioLizard2 wrote:

But when I unload my 6 Elite-slot 60 Terminators as per Planetfall rules, an official GW 'Ard Boyz scenario to replace the same-old-same-old pitched battles and my custom Zweischneid-Tank, all FW-proponents suddenly get all prissy and say it ain't the same.

PlanetSTRIKE is an entire scenario supplement, where you change both the gameplay rules in general for both the enemy and yourself. If you're going to take 60 terminators, your enemy gets to D6 Firestorm your field for free, along with making it night and your field dangerous terrain. Afterall you suddenly decided you wanted to play planetstrike, he gets his D6 S9 AP2 flame templates all over your field along with his strategem rules! Gonna be some good terminator burning.

A Forgeworld model requires no special scenario in place, and can be taken as an X FoC choice in a standard army.

That is true. And yet, in the original outline of FW should be allowed because a) its offical GW, b) it isn't overpowered, c) I have the models for it, that restriction of scenarios wasn't stated.

Introducing it now just proves the point that you keep on making arbitary rules and restrictions so long that the end results sticks with "I get to play FW, screw all other opinions" in a rather arbitrary fashion.

AnUnearthlyChilde wrote:

kronk wrote:

AnUnearthlyChilde wrote:
Well spotted, but they have two separate defined purposes. If it was workshops intention to make FW defined and separate from GW, then they would have included a rule which states you must ask opponents permission to use, like they used to do with Special characters.

They do. It's at the beginning of every Forge World book.

Not true. I use Malanthropes from the IA Apoc 2nd Ed book, which allows me to take them in a standard 40k. and there is nothing at the beginning of that book which tells me to ask my opponents permission.

It's not in my copy of the book

Also, I shall reiterate my earlier point... Tourney's allow them without question. So why can't you?

ZebioLizard2 wrote:

All I did was apply the rules you made to justify your use of FW-stuff. If the results seem ludicrious to you, it just shows how ludicrious your own arguments are.

Contemptor: Can be used as a FoC slot in normal warhammer games

Planetstrike: An entire supplement based around changing around entire rules for both the attacker and defender along with scenario rules, standard gameplay, and various other changes..

Here's the simple, you only have strawman arguments.

I don't see your point? Planetstrike does different things than a FW model? A given. But how does that make one "ok" and the other "not" for unprepared play.

AnUnearthlyChilde wrote:It's not in my copy of the book

Explain?

As the image says, there's a difference between "happy to play a game" (normal GW 40k rules) and "happy to play a game using Forge World models" (not normal GW 40k rules)

kronk wrote:

AnUnearthlyChilde wrote:It's not in my copy of the book

Explain?

I cannot find that snapshot you posted within any page of the copy of IA Apoc 2nd ed that I own.

AnUnearthlyChilde wrote:

kronk wrote:

AnUnearthlyChilde wrote:It's not in my copy of the book

Explain?

I cannot find that snapshot you posted within any page of the copy of IA Apoc 2nd ed that I own.

Are you honestly saying that you don't see the following sentence at the beginning of your IA Apoc Second Edition book?

"As with all our models these should be considered 'official', but owing to the fact they may be unknown to your opponent, it's best to make sure they are happy to play a game using Forge World models before you start. "