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Just go to the Army recruiting web page, it is not like there are any secrets kept from incoming recruits.

Here is the PT guide: http://www.goarmy.com/downloads/physical-training-guide.html

Here is the PDF: http://www.goarmy.com/content/dam/goarmy/downloaded_assets/pt_guide/pocket-pt-guide.pdf

Every recruit gets a hard copy of that.

I suspect some folks have no clue how much help recruits of BOTH sexes get...

CptJake wrote:

Melissia wrote:Or even basic infantry given the average recruit for the basic infantry (a lot of high school dropouts or just-barely-passed grads, for example). I rather expect those who are seriously wanting to get in to special forces to be gung-ho about it.

Now you are showing ignorance. Look up numbers of non-highschool grads allowed into the military.

I thought at this point Army and Marines required a HS degree. I'm probably wrong.

But again, women are held to lower standards. Given the amount of complaints in this thread that they shouldn't be held to such standards, I tried to come up with a solution. *shrug*

Melissia wrote:But again, women are held to lower standards. Given the amount of complaints in this thread that they shouldn't be held to such standards, I tried to come up with a solution. *shrug*

Its because your "solution" is crap.

Melissia wrote:But again, women are held to lower standards. Given the amount of complaints in this thread that they shouldn't be held to such standards, I tried to come up with a solution. *shrug*

Actually, I have not seen a lot of complaints, instead you've been given reasons the standards are different (females ARE different from males) and reasons why for some branches (combat arms) the standards are higher than current female standards. You've also been shown that it is HARDER for females to meet male standards and that the long term effect on the female body is more detrimental than her male counterpart. You've then been shown that for fiscal reasons, it may not make sense to 'widen the pool' for comabt arms, the pool is already full and in the process of downsizing.

CptJake wrote:Actually, I have not seen a lot of complaints

You haven't actually bothered to read the thread then.

Frazzled wrote:Its because your "solution" is crap.

On the contrary, it would work quite well.

Studies have found that Females are more likely to suffer from Mental Illnesses than Males. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/46056751/ns/health-mental_health/t/study-women-more-risk-mental-illness-men/ Females are more likely to suffer Trauma and Depression. http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/200307/more-women-suffer-depression That would be dangerous of field, it would also cost more to hire more Psychiatrists. In my Country, the Physical requirement is lower for females to join the army than males. Also, the Army Scandals in my Country shows that Males and Females might act inappropriately so they would have to Squad them into Male and Female Squads. The other problem is that many Older Males would not take Commands or even resign if they have to take orders from Females, that would take a large proporation out of the armed Services.

Frazzled wrote:

CptJake wrote:

Melissia wrote:Or even basic infantry given the average recruit for the basic infantry (a lot of high school dropouts or just-barely-passed grads, for example). I rather expect those who are seriously wanting to get in to special forces to be gung-ho about it.

Now you are showing ignorance. Look up numbers of non-highschool grads allowed into the military.

I thought at this point Army and Marines required a HS degree. I'm probably wrong.

Bingo. And where once waivers were given for things like minor health issues or misdemeanor convictions, ALL waivers are about impossible right now because with downsizing and a poor economy the military can afford to be picky about who gets in. (another reason for a recruit to take initiative to show up for the training and PT sessions)

CptJake wrote:

Frazzled wrote:

CptJake wrote:

Melissia wrote:Or even basic infantry given the average recruit for the basic infantry (a lot of high school dropouts or just-barely-passed grads, for example). I rather expect those who are seriously wanting to get in to special forces to be gung-ho about it.

Now you are showing ignorance. Look up numbers of non-highschool grads allowed into the military.

I thought at this point Army and Marines required a HS degree. I'm probably wrong.

Bingo. And where once waivers were given for things like minor health issues or misdemeanor convictions, ALL waivers are about impossible right now because with downsizing and a poor economy the military can afford to be picky about who gets in. (another reason for a recruit to take initiative to show up for the training and PT sessions)

America needs to lower it's defence bill. Then it might be able to pay back it's debt. Not like any World War is likely to happen soon.

Melissia wrote:

CptJake wrote:Actually, I have not seen a lot of complaints

You haven't actually bothered to read the thread then.

Frazzled wrote:Its because your "solution" is crap.

On the contrary, it would work quite well.

Again horse gak. If it would work well they could do it before hand. If they can't thats their ing fault. Welcome to Life (TM) It sucks but in the end you're gonna die.

rockerbikie wrote:Studies have found that Females are more likely to suffer from Mental Illnesses than Males. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/46056751/ns/health-mental_health/t/study-women-more-risk-mental-illness-men/ Females are more likely to suffer Trauma and Depression. http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/200307/more-women-suffer-depression

Meanwhile men are more likely to develop substance abuse problems and antisocial problems, both JUST as dangerous-- antisocial problems especially, given the individual tends to be aggressively uncooperative and less likely to participate in teamwork which can spell doom to more than just the individual. Men are three times as likely to be diagnosed with antisocial disorer as women, while women aren't near that much more likely to be diagnosed with depression as men despite the gender bias in diagnosis.

Similarly, women aren't necessarily more likely to suffer as much as they're more likely to ADMIT it. Learned behavior and cultural biases play a strong part in this, as does the fact that women are a minority (and thus have less control over the socioeconomic determinants of mental health), and the same reports (as well as other reports) also indicate a gender bias in doctors-- doctors are more likely to diagnose depression in women even when the men and women have identical scores on standardized measurements of depression, or identical symptoms.

Men also are simply less likely to report it (men may feel it's "weak and unmanly to admit to feelings of despair", according to one report), and more likely commit suicide over their problems than women, which is definitely more dangerous than admitting one has a problem and seeking help.

Shall I go on? If you want to try to claim women are mentally unstable, I can provide proof that humanity as a whole is mentally unstable. I think we can at least all agree on that

CptJake wrote:

Frazzled wrote:

CptJake wrote:

Melissia wrote:Or even basic infantry given the average recruit for the basic infantry (a lot of high school dropouts or just-barely-passed grads, for example). I rather expect those who are seriously wanting to get in to special forces to be gung-ho about it.

Now you are showing ignorance. Look up numbers of non-highschool grads allowed into the military.

I thought at this point Army and Marines required a HS degree. I'm probably wrong.

Bingo. And where once waivers were given for things like minor health issues or misdemeanor convictions, ALL waivers are about impossible right now because with downsizing and a poor economy the military can afford to be picky about who gets in. (another reason for a recruit to take initiative to show up for the training and PT sessions)

Not quite, army and Marines will accept a GED, the navy wants an actually HS diploma. not sure about the air force. as far as I know anything can still be waived, but it has been a while since I've talked to any recruiters.

After your in, and have a skill, you can apply for the SF programs, but in order to get in you have to pass a grueling physical test. if women can pass that test, let them do it.

Melissia wrote:

rockerbikie wrote:Studies have found that Females are more likely to suffer from Mental Illnesses than Males. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/46056751/ns/health-mental_health/t/study-women-more-risk-mental-illness-men/ Females are more likely to suffer Trauma and Depression. http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/200307/more-women-suffer-depression

Meanwhile men are more likely to develop substance abuse problems and antisocial problems, both JUST as dangerous-- antisocial problems especially, given the individual tends to be aggressively uncooperative and less likely to participate in teamwork which can spell doom to more than just the individual. Men are three times as likely to be diagnosed with antisocial disorer as women, while women are only

Similarly, women aren't necessarily more likely to suffer as much as they're more likely to ADMIT it. Learned behavior and cultural biases play a strong part in this, as does the fact that women are a minority (and thus have less control over the socioeconomic determinants of mental health), and the same reports (as well as other reports) also indicate a gender bias in doctors-- doctors are more likely to diagnose depression in women even when the men and women have identical scores on standardized measurements of depression, or identical symptoms.

Men are also more likely to commit suicide than women, which is definitely more dangerous than admitting one has a problem and seeking help.

Shall I go on? If you want to try to claim women are mentally unstable, I can provide proof that humanity as a whole is mentally unstable. I think we can at least all agree on that

Humanity is unstable but the disorders females are more likely to be undetected than males, Borderline Personality Disorder or Multiple Personality Disorder(Both have a higher percentage of female sufferers). Anti-social Behaviour is usually found in the Psychiatric test and ruled out from the army. Personally, I think Males and Females do different things in Depression, females are more likely to self harm or binge eat in depression than more dramatic things. A majority of Males have a different strategies than Females, from my personal experiences, it is more noticable that members of the Female Community are depressed, males generally can hide it a lot better in my experiences.

Wow can we like so not go there...

rockerbikie wrote:

Melissia wrote:

rockerbikie wrote:Studies have found that Females are more likely to suffer from Mental Illnesses than Males. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/46056751/ns/health-mental_health/t/study-women-more-risk-mental-illness-men/ Females are more likely to suffer Trauma and Depression. http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/200307/more-women-suffer-depression

Meanwhile men are more likely to develop substance abuse problems and antisocial problems, both JUST as dangerous-- antisocial problems especially, given the individual tends to be aggressively uncooperative and less likely to participate in teamwork which can spell doom to more than just the individual. Men are three times as likely to be diagnosed with antisocial disorer as women, while women are only

Similarly, women aren't necessarily more likely to suffer as much as they're more likely to ADMIT it. Learned behavior and cultural biases play a strong part in this, as does the fact that women are a minority (and thus have less control over the socioeconomic determinants of mental health), and the same reports (as well as other reports) also indicate a gender bias in doctors-- doctors are more likely to diagnose depression in women even when the men and women have identical scores on standardized measurements of depression, or identical symptoms.

Men are also more likely to commit suicide than women, which is definitely more dangerous than admitting one has a problem and seeking help.

Shall I go on? If you want to try to claim women are mentally unstable, I can provide proof that humanity as a whole is mentally unstable. I think we can at least all agree on that

Humanity is unstable but the disorders females are more likely to be undetected than males, Borderline Personality Disorder or Multiple Personality Disorder(Both have a higher percentage of female sufferers). Anti-social Behaviour is usually found is the Psychiatric test and ruled out from the army. Personally, I think Males and Females do different things in Depression, females are more likely to self harm or binge eat in depression than more dramatic things. A majority of Males have a different strategies than Females, from my personal experiences, it is more noticable that members of the Female Community are depressed, males generally can hide it a lot better in my experiences.

You really like your capital letters, don't you?

Frazzled wrote:I don't think Melissia understands what boot camp is for.

"Boot camp is the machine where we took kids and made them learn to immediately follow orders, and some other useless crap. Yelling was great but it didn't really set right until we threw one of them down stairs in a locker, then everyone listened. "
-Frazzled Sr.

Boot Camp exists to teach new recruits how to be basic soldiers, Marines, sailors, or airmen. I don't know about the other branches, but the USMC standards when I went through in 2008 seemed rather lax both in terms of physical requirements and skills. I think its more of an assessment of can these recruits be an asset and one day be a capable Marine.

Melissia wrote:Or even basic infantry given the average recruit for the basic infantry (a lot of high school dropouts or just-barely-passed grads, for example). I rather expect those who are seriously wanting to get in to special forces to be gung-ho about it.

CptJake wrote:

Frazzled wrote:

CptJake wrote:

Melissia wrote:Or even basic infantry given the average recruit for the basic infantry (a lot of high school dropouts or just-barely-passed grads, for example). I rather expect those who are seriously wanting to get in to special forces to be gung-ho about it.

Now you are showing ignorance. Look up numbers of non-highschool grads allowed into the military.

I thought at this point Army and Marines required a HS degree. I'm probably wrong.

Bingo. And where once waivers were given for things like minor health issues or misdemeanor convictions, ALL waivers are about impossible right now because with downsizing and a poor economy the military can afford to be picky about who gets in. (another reason for a recruit to take initiative to show up for the training and PT sessions)

Even during the surge waivers for not having a HS degree were extremely limited. Not getting a HS degree in this day is a sign of low intelligence or laziness. None of the branches want either.


Concerning, SOI, I have a friend who finished USMC SOI not too long despite being basically a 'twig'. He's like 6'2" 170 (max) with very little upper body strength (I don't even know if he can bench his weight tbh) and despite having decent jumping ability I doubt he has notable lower body strength. I think it's more of a question of having the willpower and endurance to make it through, but of course raw strength helps if you already have to other two.

rubiksnoob wrote:

rockerbikie wrote:

Melissia wrote:

rockerbikie wrote:Studies have found that Females are more likely to suffer from Mental Illnesses than Males. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/46056751/ns/health-mental_health/t/study-women-more-risk-mental-illness-men/ Females are more likely to suffer Trauma and Depression. http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/200307/more-women-suffer-depression

Meanwhile men are more likely to develop substance abuse problems and antisocial problems, both JUST as dangerous-- antisocial problems especially, given the individual tends to be aggressively uncooperative and less likely to participate in teamwork which can spell doom to more than just the individual. Men are three times as likely to be diagnosed with antisocial disorer as women, while women are only

Similarly, women aren't necessarily more likely to suffer as much as they're more likely to ADMIT it. Learned behavior and cultural biases play a strong part in this, as does the fact that women are a minority (and thus have less control over the socioeconomic determinants of mental health), and the same reports (as well as other reports) also indicate a gender bias in doctors-- doctors are more likely to diagnose depression in women even when the men and women have identical scores on standardized measurements of depression, or identical symptoms.

Men are also more likely to commit suicide than women, which is definitely more dangerous than admitting one has a problem and seeking help.

Shall I go on? If you want to try to claim women are mentally unstable, I can provide proof that humanity as a whole is mentally unstable. I think we can at least all agree on that

Humanity is unstable but the disorders females are more likely to be undetected than males, Borderline Personality Disorder or Multiple Personality Disorder(Both have a higher percentage of female sufferers). Anti-social Behaviour is usually found is the Psychiatric test and ruled out from the army. Personally, I think Males and Females do different things in Depression, females are more likely to self harm or binge eat in depression than more dramatic things. A majority of Males have a different strategies than Females, from my personal experiences, it is more noticable that members of the Female Community are depressed, males generally can hide it a lot better in my experiences.

You really like your capital letters, don't you?

When you can't make an argument, correct their Grammar.

rockerbikie wrote:

rubiksnoob wrote:

rockerbikie wrote:

Melissia wrote:

rockerbikie wrote:Studies have found that Females are more likely to suffer from Mental Illnesses than Males. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/46056751/ns/health-mental_health/t/study-women-more-risk-mental-illness-men/ Females are more likely to suffer Trauma and Depression. http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/200307/more-women-suffer-depression

Meanwhile men are more likely to develop substance abuse problems and antisocial problems, both JUST as dangerous-- antisocial problems especially, given the individual tends to be aggressively uncooperative and less likely to participate in teamwork which can spell doom to more than just the individual. Men are three times as likely to be diagnosed with antisocial disorer as women, while women are only

Similarly, women aren't necessarily more likely to suffer as much as they're more likely to ADMIT it. Learned behavior and cultural biases play a strong part in this, as does the fact that women are a minority (and thus have less control over the socioeconomic determinants of mental health), and the same reports (as well as other reports) also indicate a gender bias in doctors-- doctors are more likely to diagnose depression in women even when the men and women have identical scores on standardized measurements of depression, or identical symptoms.

Men are also more likely to commit suicide than women, which is definitely more dangerous than admitting one has a problem and seeking help.

Shall I go on? If you want to try to claim women are mentally unstable, I can provide proof that humanity as a whole is mentally unstable. I think we can at least all agree on that

Humanity is unstable but the disorders females are more likely to be undetected than males, Borderline Personality Disorder or Multiple Personality Disorder(Both have a higher percentage of female sufferers). Anti-social Behaviour is usually found is the Psychiatric test and ruled out from the army. Personally, I think Males and Females do different things in Depression, females are more likely to self harm or binge eat in depression than more dramatic things. A majority of Males have a different strategies than Females, from my personal experiences, it is more noticable that members of the Female Community are depressed, males generally can hide it a lot better in my experiences.

You really like your capital letters, don't you?

When you can't make an argument, correct their Grammar.

I don't think he is trying to argue with you...
But, he does have a point concerning your love for capital letters...

purplefood wrote:

rockerbikie wrote:

rubiksnoob wrote:

rockerbikie wrote:

Melissia wrote:

rockerbikie wrote:Studies have found that Females are more likely to suffer from Mental Illnesses than Males. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/46056751/ns/health-mental_health/t/study-women-more-risk-mental-illness-men/ Females are more likely to suffer Trauma and Depression. http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/200307/more-women-suffer-depression

Meanwhile men are more likely to develop substance abuse problems and antisocial problems, both JUST as dangerous-- antisocial problems especially, given the individual tends to be aggressively uncooperative and less likely to participate in teamwork which can spell doom to more than just the individual. Men are three times as likely to be diagnosed with antisocial disorer as women, while women are only

Similarly, women aren't necessarily more likely to suffer as much as they're more likely to ADMIT it. Learned behavior and cultural biases play a strong part in this, as does the fact that women are a minority (and thus have less control over the socioeconomic determinants of mental health), and the same reports (as well as other reports) also indicate a gender bias in doctors-- doctors are more likely to diagnose depression in women even when the men and women have identical scores on standardized measurements of depression, or identical symptoms.

Men are also more likely to commit suicide than women, which is definitely more dangerous than admitting one has a problem and seeking help.

Shall I go on? If you want to try to claim women are mentally unstable, I can provide proof that humanity as a whole is mentally unstable. I think we can at least all agree on that

Humanity is unstable but the disorders females are more likely to be undetected than males, Borderline Personality Disorder or Multiple Personality Disorder(Both have a higher percentage of female sufferers). Anti-social Behaviour is usually found is the Psychiatric test and ruled out from the army. Personally, I think Males and Females do different things in Depression, females are more likely to self harm or binge eat in depression than more dramatic things. A majority of Males have a different strategies than Females, from my personal experiences, it is more noticable that members of the Female Community are depressed, males generally can hide it a lot better in my experiences.

You really like your capital letters, don't you?

When you can't make an argument, correct their Grammar.

I don't think he is trying to argue with you...
But, he does have a point concerning your love for capital letters...

True. I use them to highlight key words in an argument. It's a fetish of mine.

rockerbikie wrote:

purplefood wrote:

rockerbikie wrote:

rubiksnoob wrote:

rockerbikie wrote:

Melissia wrote:

rockerbikie wrote:Studies have found that Females are more likely to suffer from Mental Illnesses than Males. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/46056751/ns/health-mental_health/t/study-women-more-risk-mental-illness-men/ Females are more likely to suffer Trauma and Depression. http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/200307/more-women-suffer-depression

Meanwhile men are more likely to develop substance abuse problems and antisocial problems, both JUST as dangerous-- antisocial problems especially, given the individual tends to be aggressively uncooperative and less likely to participate in teamwork which can spell doom to more than just the individual. Men are three times as likely to be diagnosed with antisocial disorer as women, while women are only

Similarly, women aren't necessarily more likely to suffer as much as they're more likely to ADMIT it. Learned behavior and cultural biases play a strong part in this, as does the fact that women are a minority (and thus have less control over the socioeconomic determinants of mental health), and the same reports (as well as other reports) also indicate a gender bias in doctors-- doctors are more likely to diagnose depression in women even when the men and women have identical scores on standardized measurements of depression, or identical symptoms.

Men are also more likely to commit suicide than women, which is definitely more dangerous than admitting one has a problem and seeking help.

Shall I go on? If you want to try to claim women are mentally unstable, I can provide proof that humanity as a whole is mentally unstable. I think we can at least all agree on that

Humanity is unstable but the disorders females are more likely to be undetected than males, Borderline Personality Disorder or Multiple Personality Disorder(Both have a higher percentage of female sufferers). Anti-social Behaviour is usually found is the Psychiatric test and ruled out from the army. Personally, I think Males and Females do different things in Depression, females are more likely to self harm or binge eat in depression than more dramatic things. A majority of Males have a different strategies than Females, from my personal experiences, it is more noticable that members of the Female Community are depressed, males generally can hide it a lot better in my experiences.

You really like your capital letters, don't you?

When you can't make an argument, correct their Grammar.

I don't think he is trying to argue with you...
But, he does have a point concerning your love for capital letters...

True. I use them to highlight key words in an argument. It's a fetish of mine.

i DoN't Know whaT You'RE TALkinG aboUt. iT LoOkS Fine tO Me.

If you say so...

Frazzled wrote:

rockerbikie wrote:

purplefood wrote:

rockerbikie wrote:

rubiksnoob wrote:

rockerbikie wrote:

Melissia wrote:

rockerbikie wrote:Studies have found that Females are more likely to suffer from Mental Illnesses than Males. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/46056751/ns/health-mental_health/t/study-women-more-risk-mental-illness-men/ Females are more likely to suffer Trauma and Depression. http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/200307/more-women-suffer-depression

Meanwhile men are more likely to develop substance abuse problems and antisocial problems, both JUST as dangerous-- antisocial problems especially, given the individual tends to be aggressively uncooperative and less likely to participate in teamwork which can spell doom to more than just the individual. Men are three times as likely to be diagnosed with antisocial disorer as women, while women are only

Similarly, women aren't necessarily more likely to suffer as much as they're more likely to ADMIT it. Learned behavior and cultural biases play a strong part in this, as does the fact that women are a minority (and thus have less control over the socioeconomic determinants of mental health), and the same reports (as well as other reports) also indicate a gender bias in doctors-- doctors are more likely to diagnose depression in women even when the men and women have identical scores on standardized measurements of depression, or identical symptoms.

Men are also more likely to commit suicide than women, which is definitely more dangerous than admitting one has a problem and seeking help.

Shall I go on? If you want to try to claim women are mentally unstable, I can provide proof that humanity as a whole is mentally unstable. I think we can at least all agree on that

Humanity is unstable but the disorders females are more likely to be undetected than males, Borderline Personality Disorder or Multiple Personality Disorder(Both have a higher percentage of female sufferers). Anti-social Behaviour is usually found is the Psychiatric test and ruled out from the army. Personally, I think Males and Females do different things in Depression, females are more likely to self harm or binge eat in depression than more dramatic things. A majority of Males have a different strategies than Females, from my personal experiences, it is more noticable that members of the Female Community are depressed, males generally can hide it a lot better in my experiences.

You really like your capital letters, don't you?

When you can't make an argument, correct their Grammar.

I don't think he is trying to argue with you...
But, he does have a point concerning your love for capital letters...

True. I use them to highlight key words in an argument. It's a fetish of mine.

i DoN't Know whaT You'RE TALkinG aboUt. iT LoOkS Fine tO Me.

I think this will sum up the quality of the joke.

Someone's bitter...

I think it'd be better if we moved back to the topic at hand and not the ins and outs of another posters idiosyncrasies with regards to posting. Thanks.

And no more big quote pyramids either please.

Women shouldn't serve in the military they are only S3/T3 in a S5/T5 world.

Let's try and avoid blanket sexism, please, or your tenure on Dakka will be very, very short. --Janthkin

Troll post, made more amusing by using a famously kickass female character name. Well done for using a series I like!

Next time try demeaning women using "Paksenarrion" as your name.

HonorHarrington wrote:Women shouldn't serve in the military they are only S3/T3 in a S5/T5 world.

So your first post is gonna be this type of crap? How often do you create new identities to do this type of thing?

Honor is S6/T10 with bionics, And genetically engineered.

HonorHarrington wrote:Honor is S6/T10 with bionics, And genetically engineered.

Honour isn't a particularly smart concept...

CptJake wrote:

HonorHarrington wrote:Women shouldn't serve in the military they are only S3/T3 in a S5/T5 world.

So your first post is gonna be this type of crap? How often do you create new identities to do this type of thing?

I have an alibi. I was busy eating chicken fried chicken and sending wiener dog pics to annoy derivative traders.