Maelstrom Games taking the biscuit?

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**CainTheHunter**

Currently, they are not allowing to use Paypal for payments on their site...

**laffe**

CainTheHunter wrote:
Currently, they are not allowing to use Paypal for payments on their site...

Ouch. They must have been hit quite a lot by PayPal complaints. They still have the PayPal logo on the front page though...

**CainTheHunter**

laffe wrote:
CainTheHunter wrote:
Currently, they are not allowing to use Paypal for payments on their site...

Ouch. They must have been hit quite a lot by PayPal complaints. They still have the PayPal logo on the front page though...

Yeah. That was the only reason why I was prepared to take risks and use their 30% discount. After finishing order and almost automatically hitting "place the order" I noticed that something is wrong - it chose VISA as default payment and I was unable to click in the Paypal, although it is still there - both on the front page and ordering page, but You cannot choose. A couple of hours ago I mailed to Maelstrom asking for info, but no reply was given yet. i guess, I'll pass on this opportunity, though some stock on their webpage seems tempting.

**Azazelx**

You know what's more tempting? Getting what you pay for!

I'm trying not to post too much in this thread, so it doesn't appear that I'm piling on, but I received none of the complete order of "in-stock" items from the first "30% off" sale before asking for my money back over a month later.

**mercer**

I have just rang Maelstrom regarding this. They said it is because they are moving warehouse and hence why no stock. They also said they are having problems with G.W.

I did ask them about EoS, and they said it's their shop and Maelstrom is still going.

Of course, this is just what they said and may not be the truth.

They've messed be about with delivery once and won't do it a second time. They have told me my stuff will be in next week and sent then, which is over a month waiting!

**Azazelx**

My "in stock" stuff was all Warlord Games, not GW. Also, it was "in stock". Right up until it was "coming in later this week/next week" for three weeks worth of phone calls. Yeah, they strung me along by telling me the same thing for three weeks that they just told you.

If I were you, I'd get my money back now, but it's your call and your money.

Also, interestingly, their Mierce Miniatures offshoot has started posting in N&R:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/481333.page

I'd assume that it's Rob Lane's new Dakka account, as "Rob" would semi-regularly post in the Banebeasts thread. Which is where the "internet hate" discussion mentioned in SirAngry's blog post happened. So I'd imagine it's likely he's also aware of this thread, and has unfortunately chosen to continue the policy of deathly silence.

**CainTheHunter**

scipio.au wrote:
You know what's more tempting? Getting what you pay for!

I'm trying not to post too much in this thread, so it doesn't appear that I'm piling on, but I received none of the complete order of "in-stock" items from the first "30% off" sale before asking for my money back over a month later.

Well, You are aussie... Having heard all those stories about how You guys are being treated I sometimes think that all people which behaved naughty in their previous lives have been reborn as wargamers in Australia...

**Compel**

Here we go....

Hi there,

Here at Maelstrom Games (www.maelstromgames.co.uk) we have decided to clear as much of our hard-earned stock as we possibly can over the next few days - and therefore generate some much-needed cashflow - in order to ensure we can fulfil the orders that you, our valued customers, have placed over the last few weeks. To that end, we have decided - in consultation with our trading partners - to sell our remaining stock of Battlefront Miniatures (at 25% off), Perry Miniatures, Victrix, Plastic Soldier Company, Artizan Designs, Gripping Beast and Great War Miniatures (all at 30% off). All other ranges' stock will now be sold at 40% off UK RRP - we hold good stocks of Gamezone Miniatures, Dark Age, Cool Mini or Not and Scibor Miniatures, and there's a fair bit of Privateer Press and Malifaux left too. As well as that, from this moment onwards we have decided to stop any customer from placing orders for items that are not in stock, simply so that we can clear the orders that have already
been placed.

A FEW DETAILS
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
We have not made this decision lightly, and please note that we have absolutely no issues with any of the above manufacturers or suppliers; we are simply trying to sell off stock in order to clear older orders and ease any worries our customers may have regarding the speculation that is currently rife on the internet. As well as that, we believe that our retailing model must now change to selling products that are in stock at the time of purchase, and as such that will continue to be in place in the future, once our orders are cleared and our stock is sold.

I would ask all of our customers to remain as patient as they can with Maelstrom Games and, indeed, our staff, for we will use the money generated by the sale of our stock to ensure all of your orders are fulfilled in their entirety as quickly as possible. We remain committed to servicing our customers first and foremost and will continue to do so in the future.

YOUR STOCK CLEARANCE SALE VOUCHER
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To recap, we're clearing our remaining stock of Flames of War products at 25% off UK RRP, and clearing Perry Miniatures, Victrix, Plastic Soldier Company, Artizan Designs, Gripping Beast and Great War Miniatures at 30% off UK RRP until this Friday, 12th of October 2012 at midnight (GMT). Everything else is at 40% off UK RRP bar Templar's Forge products, which are being cleared at 50% off UK RRP, please note.

These kind of sales do not occur very often and we would hope that you take advantage - and remember, our stock will be sold on a first come, first served basis so you will have to decide what you want very quickly as we suspect it will sell very quickly!

The voucher will work on all the items in our webstore that are IN STOCK ONLY, but it will NOT work on any out of stock items or pre-orders, nor anything within our eBay store.

Your voucher code is: WAREHOUSE-MOVES

To use this voucher simply register on the webstore, www.maelstromgames.co.uk (if you haven't already), copy and paste the code into the Voucher field in your basket when you have selected the items you want, press 'REDEEM', and the webstore will do the rest. You are not limited to one purchase and, indeed, we would ask you to recommend us to your friends with this voucher!

Remember though that this voucher is intended for the webstore only - it does not apply to any of our auctions or Fixed Price items on eBay.

Happy Ordering!

**UNCLEBADTOUCH**

Reading this really rings major alarm bills. To me this says that although you have paid for your orders we used that money on something else. To get the stock to fulfil your order we need more orders to generate the cash. So where did those customers money end up?

Starting to sound like a Ponzi scheme, get new investment to fulfil previous commitments then rinse and repeat ad nauseam.

**OrlandotheTechnicoloured**

Scary stuff

I read that as saying they can't afford to prder the stuff folk have ALREADY paid for unless they liquidate stock

If somebody pays for say a Malifaux box set I'd expect the retailer to order that box set with the cash (unless it was in stock anyway)

That doesn't read like that has been their business model

**Compel**

Well, on a whim, I had a punt at a few 'in stock' scibor miniatures, also mostly to use up my moneyback.

Of course, I did use my credit card for it, just in case.

Also, partly to put my money where my mouth is, so that if/when they do screw me over, I can fill out that form for Anne.

**lukewild1982**

I just got the above email too, I was about to delete the subscription to the endless bloody emails they send out and then happened to read the reasons for it and I was not shocked at all. In fact what I was shocked about was that they have finally admitted to us all that there is actually an issue. The fact that they have also now burnt their bridges with PayPal is even more terrifying. I think by the end of the year they will be a mere memory of in the Interweb

**pixelpusher**

As well as that, from this moment onwards we have decided to stop any customer from placing orders for items that are not in stock, simply so that we can clear the orders that have already

So... The stuff listed as "in stock" never really was in stock, and now you have also lost your credit at your distributors, so the only option left is to Ponzi and hope everything works out?

**NAVARRO**

This is not going to end well

**oldandcrabby**

So to summarise

- they have lost their battlefront account
- they have no credit left with other key ones including GW. GW arent mucking them about they are just refusing to send stuff to them til they pay for it, but Maelstrom do the easy thing and blame GW when it isnt their fault !
- nearly 600k of debt, probably more by now
- lots of orders that they have taken money for and have no stock for and no money to buy the stock
- sale after sale to generate cash
- no paypal, so they have either lost their account due to the number of chargebacks or have removed it as it is so easy to do a dispute in paypal.
- apart from Fow most of the stock they have isnt key stuff so a lot of it wont sell
- no cashflow, they openly admit

If anyone still seriously thinks Malestrom Games Ltd is moving into a lovely new warehouse they must be taking some serious drugs ! I cant believe Maelstom are still pushing that old story, it is just a joke.

**Winact**

Dissapointing to see maelstrom go down like this, I note the total lack of any mention of GW in that mailshot too- is that so they can say they have no issues with the suppliers mentioned?

Shame really, Maelstrom were a long time supplier of my hobby and until recently were very good.

All good things must come to an end though (usually going via bad things on the way out though unfortunately!!)

**Inanimate**

Nice of them to admit it at least. It was hinted in the previous mail that they desperately needed cash, but it's nice with proper recognition. I think I'll let them process the final piece of my order, but after that is done, I'll be wary of using them for a while.

**Mr. Burning**

If they complete my order, all well and good.

I probably won't buy from them again . It's good Rob has finally taken note and realised that a mail order company who cannot get the stock to fulfil customer orders is a farce.

Too little too late? Maybe.

Other companies take note, I will be testing you in the future.

**Eiríkr**

Hrm.

Time to jump to Wayland.

**Rayvon**

Well i got the darklands stuff I ordered within a week, although i do live quite near to them, guess i just got my order in, in time !

oldandcrabby wrote:
So to summarise

- they have lost their battlefront account
- they have no credit left with other key ones including GW. GW arent mucking them about they are just refusing to send stuff to them til they pay for it, but Maelstrom do the easy thing and blame GW when it isnt their fault !
- nearly 600k of debt, probably more by now
- lots of orders that they have taken money for and have no stock for and no money to buy the stock
- sale after sale to generate cash
- no paypal, so they have either lost their account due to the number of chargebacks or have removed it as it is so easy to do a dispute in paypal.
- apart from Fow most of the stock they have isnt key stuff so a lot of it wont sell
- no cashflow, they openly admit

If anyone still seriously thinks Malestrom Games Ltd is moving into a lovely new warehouse they must be taking some serious drugs ! I cant believe Maelstom are still pushing that old story, it is just a joke.

Seeing as all your posts on this forum have been in this thread i doubt anyone can believe anything you say.
Not sticking up for mealstrom btw, their problems seem quite real, but the warehouse is definately moving from where it was so that one is not a lie at least, as for the rest of it, who knows.

**Mr. Burning**

Rayvon wrote:
Well i got the darklands stuff I ordered within a week, although i do live quite near to them, guess i just got my order in, in time !

oldandcrabby wrote:
So to summarise

- they have lost their battlefront account
- they have no credit left with other key ones including GW. GW arent mucking them about they are just refusing to send stuff to them til they pay for it, but Maelstrom do the easy thing and blame GW when it isnt their fault !
- nearly 600k of debt, probably more by now
- lots of orders that they have taken money for and have no stock for and no money to buy the stock
- sale after sale to generate cash
- no paypal, so they have either lost their account due to the number of chargebacks or have removed it as it is so easy to do a dispute in paypal.
- apart from Fow most of the stock they have isnt key stuff so a lot of it wont sell
- no cashflow, they openly admit

If anyone still seriously thinks Malestrom Games Ltd is moving into a lovely new warehouse they must be taking some serious drugs ! I cant believe Maelstom are still pushing that old story, it is just a joke.

Seeing as all your posts on this forum have been in this thread i doubt anyone can believe anything you say.
Not sticking up for mealstrom btw, their problems seem quite real, but the warehouse is definately moving from where it was so that one is not a lie at least, as for the rest of it, who knows.

Rayvon,

This from their latest e-mail speaks volumes.

we have decided to clear as much of our hard-earned stock as we possibly can over the next few days - and therefore generate some much-needed cashflow

Any emphasis is mine.

The email goes on and says they are clearing old stock in order to clear older orders. Put another way, they need to generate cash in order to get stock from suppliers - They have limited credit .

They do have £600k debts.

If they have to clear dead stock in order to pay off suppliers and get things moving what on earth are maelstrom going to be filling the new warehouse with?

**Azazelx**

CainTheHunter wrote:

Well, You are aussie... Having heard all those stories about how You guys are being treated I sometimes think that all people which behaved naughty in their previous lives have been reborn as wargamers in Australia...

Yeah, it's horrible living in such a huge, warm, gorgeous country where we can take the kids out for football in the middle of winter with not a cloud in the sky and 15C weather (not every day, but it happened this year).

**Kroothawk**

Well if one of the biggest webstores reknown for selling barely above costs made 600k debt, maybe this strategy doesn't work.
Guess it is time for customers to deal with fairer prices that don't kill the seller.

**Rayvon**

Fair enough, i was not sticking up for them.
That other chap was probably an upset customer too
I am going to keep using them until they let me down though, i may be about the only person but they have done me well.

I noticed that their feedback on ebay was also starting to take a hit too.

http://feedback.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback2&userid=maelstromgames&iid=-1&de=off&items=25&which=negative&interval=30&_trkparms=negative_30

**Inanimate**

Kroothawk wrote:
Well if one of the biggest webstores reknown for selling barely above costs made 600k debt, maybe this strategy doesn't work.
Guess it is time for customers to deal with fairer prices that don't kill the seller.

I'd be fine with paying the UK RRP in £; still cheaper than he local prices. Wayland doesn't seem to be suffering the same fate though. Their networth is actually positive.

Maybe it's because they want to keep mail order prices while still having to maintain a huge store. They could be moving to a cheaper locale and just deal with mail order. It's difficult to say what ther goal is without insight.

I honestly hope they make it. I like the store and I have no reason to wish them any ill. This latest move did come across as a little scummy though.

**Winact**

Rayvon wrote:

I noticed that their feedback on ebay was also starting to take a hit too.

http://feedback.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback2&userid=maelstromgames&iid=-1&de=off&items=25&which=negative&interval=30&_trkparms=negative_30

They also dont appear to have any listings running at the moment and there's nothing in their eBay shop either.

I personally hope they make it, but my last order from them was split and I'm still waiting for the final item after two months, although in fairness it is shown as in packing- I'm not holding my breath for its arrival though- fortunately it isn't an expensive item!

**NAVARRO**

Inanimate wrote:
Kroothawk wrote:
Well if one of the biggest webstores reknown for selling barely above costs made 600k debt, maybe this strategy doesn't work.
Guess it is time for customers to deal with fairer prices that don't kill the seller.

I'd be fine with paying the UK RRP in £; still cheaper than he local prices. Wayland doesn't seem to be suffering the same fate though. Their networth is actually positive. Maybe it's because they want to keep mail order prices while still having to maintain a huge store. They could be moving to a cheaper locale and just deal with mail order. It's difficult to say what ther goal is without insight.

I honestly hope they make it. I like the store and I have no reason to wish them any ill. This latest move did come across as a little scummy though.

I wonder how much money their banelegions banelords production drained... they are releasing lots of big minis each month and most painted and sculpted by very talented expensive people....

**Azazelx**

Kroothawk wrote:
Well if one of the biggest webstores reknown for selling barely above costs made 600k debt, maybe this strategy doesn't work.
Guess it is time for customers to deal with fairer prices that don't kill the seller.

Their usual prices were simply 10% off. They had free shipping which was offset by the 20% VAT they didn't refund (ie used to cover the free shipping costs). The big sales were only a few times per year until earlier this year, when the sales became far more frequent leading into the "warehouse move". They would have had massive turnover until the GW embargo (Note - this isn't blaming GW in a roundabout way). Lots of other places offer a 10% off RRP, with either free or subsidised shipping, so that's not it. Hell, a lot of local retailers offer (at least) 10% off RRP as well and have so for decades (as opposed to the crazy 30%+ places we hear about in the US).

**PLC**

The thing is that their business plan - including Eye of Storm and Bane Legions - was put in place prior to the GW embargo.

That decision by GW must have destroyed Maelstrom's cashflow. While others in UK were offering discounts, Maelstom had the bulk of internet sales outside UK (where there was a huge price advantage).

Those pre-embargo internet sales would have generated enormous cashflow that is now gone. Pretty sure that decision by GW was the defining point of everything that has occurred since.

**Azazelx**

PLC wrote:
The thing is that their business plan - including Eye of Storm and Bane Legions - was put in place prior to the GW embargo.

That decision by GW must have destroyed Maelstrom's cashflow. While others in UK were offering discounts, Maelstom had the bulk of internet sales outside UK (where there was a huge price advantage).

Those pre-embargo internet sales would have generated enormous cashflow that is now gone. Pretty sure that decision by GW was the defining point of everything that has occurred since.

While I'm sure that this is true to an extent, their retail store seemed to be successful, and clearly their adjustments and planning since the GW embargo have been, shall we say.. not ideal. The last months especially have been appalling. To put it another way, Wayland Games seems to be doing ok, and they were also a large piece of the overseas GW market.

And I'll agree it sucks mightily. I actually enjoyed spending money with Maelstrom, and the customer service might have been a little slow at times, but was overall pretty good, and I was always happy with how I was treated as a customer - if they screwed something up they went out of their way to fix it up - and did so quickly and painlessly.