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A new game shop can't profit in it's first year? Who would have thought such a thing was possible.
Sarcasm aside He was out of line with the "unjustified vitrol" line. There is a certain small section of the population who are very justified in their vitrol.

I feel bad for the locals who are losing their only shop though.

What's really strange is how he said he was trying to sell/give the store away and no one would take it. I'm pretty sure if he set a low enough price, people would have taken the offer if only for the assets/stocks and then just rebranded under a new name and most importantly, WITHOUT Rob Lane. That probably would have worked.

And yeah, why is it undergoing insolvency if it's just closing?

"there's enough assets to cover any debts"

But not enough to cover the people left out of pocket by Maelstrom, one would assume.

Herzlos wrote:
Surely he'd just have a clearout sale and close down whilst trying to sell off whatever he can?

Sounds familliar...

SeanDrake wrote:
I'm just going to leave this here http://www.maunsfeld-gaming.com/
Maunsfeld Gaming is going into liquidation shortly; the company is not insolvent - there's enough assets to cover any debts - but the longer it carries on, the more debts will accumulate and it will achieve critical mass at some point. With the attendance falling, organisers cancelling events, terrain being stolen, staff leaving, not being able to stock Games Workshop products in the store and the quite breathtaking and totally unjustified vitriol on the internet from some quarters, it seems the venue is no longer wanted by most.
I wanted to sell the company, perhaps even the assets alone, so that someone can keep it going, but nobody seems to want to take it on, so that's that.

No great surprise! Typical Rob Lane - blame everyone else, did he really expect to screw over thousands of customers and suppliers and still have them turn up to the venue funded by his mis-deeds or allow him to sell their stock? Staff leaving - at least they were sensible not to wait for the fall (of course it it was viable as a business he'd have replaced them). OK people should not be stealing stuff - but maybe that was them getting a refund of sorts! - Sorry can't really condone that sort of behavior (but is he really the one to be complaining about it all things considered). Did he really write "unjustified" ........really??????

As MG is about to go through the courts does anyone else see this as a a bit weird? Everyone knows that Maunsfeld was part of MG and contained saved stock from MG, plus it was all funded in the first place by MG, surely it would get pulled back into the MG hole which is why no one wanted to buy it? I think this is another dodge by the director to try and prevent whatever assets are remaining going into the main administration and get a bit more to line his pockets if he can.

Riquende wrote:

Herzlos wrote:
Surely he'd just have a clearout sale and close down whilst trying to sell off whatever he can?

Sounds familliar...

Yeah but what I mean is that he could have been above board with it and run a closing down sale (not a warehouse moving sale), rather than letting administrators deal with it and get less back. Why would a business that has enough money to cover it's debts hand everything over to administrators?

Unless it's been wrapped up as part of the Maelstrom liquidation.

Herzlos wrote:
As has been mentioned, I wonder how this will affect the 'totally-a-separate-company-honest' miniatures company and the kickstarter. Presumably it was started whilst he was trying to get money to prop up the store...?

That's the precise reason I didn't put any money into the KS. I hope nobody (else) loses out because of this.

Well they say bad things come in threes so lets hope that all those people who invested in his KickStarter don't get burned as well.

Money and assets are not the same thing. Money is an asset but all assets are not money.

Suppose I owe you £100 and you demand payment. I don't have £100 (cash, an asset) but I have a car (an asset) worth £5,000. I need to sell the car to get the £100 cash to pay you. Perhaps I can't sell the car in a day.

For another example, I owe you £100 and someone owes me £120. (A debt is an asset.) You want your £100 but I can't give it to you until I get my £120 from the other guy, and I can't find him in a day.

It is nearly always lack of cashflow that sinks companies.

This has been your financial accounting lesson for the day.

I'm curious just what sort of debt MG could be owed and how significant it could be.

Maybe MG lent money to MM and MM refused to pay MG back -_-

Sining wrote:
I'm curious just what sort of debt MG could be owed and how significant it could be.

Maybe MG lent money to MM and MM refused to pay MG back -_-

What?

Well if i remember correctly there was mention of a considerable debt to at least one supplier which was bought out by.. wayland? Not entirely sure, but the information should be here earlier in the thread.

Starweaver wrote:
Well if i remember correctly there was mention of a considerable debt to at least one supplier which was bought out by.. wayland? Not entirely sure, but the information should be here earlier in the thread.

Nah, you've got it a bit arse about face, MM are owned by the same guy as MG was. The debt was with a distributor IIRC.

This make me soooooo MAD!

Why do bad things happen to nice people!!

Poor Rob, maybe he'll be more lucky with his third attempt Maunstorm Games - Eye of the Maunstorm opening soon.

[SADFACE]

 notprop wrote:
This make me soooooo MAD!

Why do bad things happen to nice people!!

Poor Rob, maybe he'll be more lucky with his third attempt Maunstorm Games - Eye of the Maunstorm opening soon.

[SADFACE]

His 3rd attempt would be Mercie Miniatures and I guess he could be considered lucky after a successful Kickstarter, offloading all debts to his suppliers, avoiding a number of tax bills both foreign and domestic, dogging having to repay a grant from english heritage, paying off his mortgage and still retaining the rights to banelegions or whatever it's called now.

All above information gathered from earlier in this thread and other threads regarding his companies.

SeanDrake wrote:

 notprop wrote:
This make me soooooo MAD!

Why do bad things happen to nice people!!

Poor Rob, maybe he'll be more lucky with his third attempt Maunstorm Games - Eye of the Maunstorm opening soon.

[SADFACE]

His 3rd attempt would be Mercie Miniatures and I guess he could be considered lucky after a successful Kickstarter, offloading all debts to his suppliers, avoiding a number of tax bills both foreign and domestic, dogging having to repay a grant from english heritage, paying off his mortgage and still retaining the rights to banelegions or whatever it's called now.

All above information gathered from earlier in this thread and other threads regarding his companies.

Pretty sure that notprop was being sarcastic.

SeanDrake wrote:

 notprop wrote:
This make me soooooo MAD!

Why do bad things happen to nice people!!

Poor Rob, maybe he'll be more lucky with his third attempt Maunstorm Games - Eye of the Maunstorm opening soon.

[SADFACE]

His 3rd attempt would be Mercie Miniatures and I guess he could be considered lucky after a successful Kickstarter, offloading all debts to his suppliers, avoiding a number of tax bills both foreign and domestic, dogging having to repay a grant from english heritage, paying off his mortgage and still retaining the rights to banelegions or whatever it's called now.

All above information gathered from earlier in this thread and other threads regarding his companies.

IMO you would have a lot more credibility in your one man crusade/vendetta if you didn't just make up hysterical rumours (like talking about Ponzi schemes on warseer) , foreign tax bills (how?), mortgages (on a rented property?) or the status of debts/grants that you have no information on

^ Seems legit.

Well from what I have heard the issue with Maelstrom very nearly sunk the UK's biggest wargame distributor when they went down as well, which would have been a big hit for any wargaming customers in the UK.

So, be thankful for small (or not so small!) mercies I guess..

 Pacific wrote:
Well from what I have heard the issue with Maelstrom very nearly sunk the UK's biggest wargame distributor when they went down

I didn't think anybody actually believed that rather fantastical claim by Wayland to justify their predatory actions

Razorback17 wrote:

 Pacific wrote:
Well from what I have heard the issue with Maelstrom very nearly sunk the UK's biggest wargame distributor when they went down

I didn't think anybody actually believed that rather fantastical claim by Wayland to justify their predatory actions

Whatever you say, Rob.

Sigh because everybody who points out that a lot of internet forum claims or self-serving statements are obviously false hasto have links with or be Rob

No, but whenever you have three posts to your name on a new profile created today, and all your posts are in this thread running interference for Mr Lane, please do not be surprised if your actions seem somewhat suspect.

Well, yes, because I'm just imagining having several of my real life mates end up losing up to £200 each thanks to Maelstrom's/Maunsfield's business practices.

 AlexHolker wrote:

Razorback17 wrote:

 Pacific wrote:
Well from what I have heard the issue with Maelstrom very nearly sunk the UK's biggest wargame distributor when they went down

I didn't think anybody actually believed that rather fantastical claim by Wayland to justify their predatory actions

Whatever you say, Rob.

Even the distributor himself (link buried in this thread too IIRC) said they were not in financial problem, but was more of a psychological thing, sorry but what Maelstrom did (in both incarnations) was outrageous, what Simple Miniatures did was bad for their reputation and what wayland did was a clever business move, but I cannot accept the biggest distributor of UK had grave issues with Maelstrom owning them money, financially not ideal, sure, breaking the company? no especially if a retailer could absorb it without an issue.

So yes, I condemn Rob for what he did, Applaud Rich for managing such maneuver, disapprove Simple miniatures decision but never believed that story.

Razorback17 wrote:

SeanDrake wrote:

 notprop wrote:
This make me soooooo MAD!

Why do bad things happen to nice people!!

Poor Rob, maybe he'll be more lucky with his third attempt Maunstorm Games - Eye of the Maunstorm opening soon.

[SADFACE]

His 3rd attempt would be Mercie Miniatures and I guess he could be considered lucky after a successful Kickstarter, offloading all debts to his suppliers, avoiding a number of tax bills both foreign and domestic, dogging having to repay a grant from english heritage, paying off his mortgage and still retaining the rights to banelegions or whatever it's called now.

All above information gathered from earlier in this thread and other threads regarding his companies.

IMO you would have a lot more credibility in your one man crusade/vendetta if you didn't just make up hysterical rumours (like talking about Ponzi schemes on warseer) , foreign tax bills (how?), mortgages (on a rented property?) or the status of debts/grants that you have no information on

Normally I ignore Maelstrom trolls but the debts to suppliers and customers is pretty much known while I certainly discovered some of the issues with maelstrom by use of companies house and the accounts they filed the rest was information simply compiled from this thread finally a quick lesson in the murky world of tax and VAT .

"Payment of VAT by online retailers is a very sticky area, although the principles are simple. VAT is chargeable on goods sold within a country using e-commerce or distance selling methods (eg mail order). If you ship goods from one European country to another then VAT remains payable. Smaller businesses can simply charge their national VAT rate until a value threshold is reached, above which VAT must be charged at the national rate of the European consumer. In the UK the threshold is £70,000, €100,000 in France, Germany Netherlands, and Austria, and €35,000 in most other countries like Spain, Italy, Portugal, and Finland. Retailers need to register in each of the countries where they have customers and pay VAT to the national authorities. So a UK e-tailer could simply charge 17.5% on sales until his foreign sales had reached £70,000 after which point he would charge 19.6% on goods to France, 25% on goods to Norway etc."

If I remember correctly there is a similar issue with Australian tax laws where monies are payable directly to them over a certain amount but I don't have that information to hand so you can do the leg work on that like a good little troll and come back if I am wrong.

Finally I have no vendetta I just like many others got screwed by maelstrom and it's management when they turned it into a zombie company to try and escape there debts and I do not like getting robbed.

 AlexHolker wrote:

Razorback17 wrote:

 Pacific wrote:
Well from what I have heard the issue with Maelstrom very nearly sunk the UK's biggest wargame distributor when they went down

I didn't think anybody actually believed that rather fantastical claim by Wayland to justify their predatory actions

Whatever you say, Rob.

I admit, I laughed.

SeanDrake wrote:


Normally I ignore Maelstrom trolls but the debts to suppliers and customers is pretty much known while I certainly discovered some of the issues with maelstrom by use of companies house and the accounts they filed the rest was information simply compiled from this thread finally a quick lesson in the murky world of tax and VAT .

"Payment of VAT by online retailers is a very sticky area, although the principles are simple. VAT is chargeable on goods sold within a country using e-commerce or distance selling methods (eg mail order). If you ship goods from one European country to another then VAT remains payable. Smaller businesses can simply charge their national VAT rate until a value threshold is reached, above which VAT must be charged at the national rate of the European consumer. In the UK the threshold is £70,000, €100,000 in France, Germany Netherlands, and Austria, and €35,000 in most other countries like Spain, Italy, Portugal, and Finland. Retailers need to register in each of the countries where they have customers and pay VAT to the national authorities. So a UK e-tailer could simply charge 17.5% on sales until his foreign sales had reached £70,000 after which point he would charge 19.6% on goods to France, 25% on goods to Norway etc."

If I remember correctly there is a similar issue with Australian tax laws where monies are payable directly to them over a certain amount but I don't have that information to hand so you can do the leg work on that like a good little troll and come back if I am wrong.

Finally I have no vendetta I just like many others got screwed by maelstrom and it's management when they turned it into a zombie company to try and escape there debts and I do not like getting robbed.

Australian Goods and Services Tax (GST) is a whole different kettle of fish because the main issue is current imports rather than exports (with goods below $1,000AUD not being subject to the 10% tax [in order to simplify this I'm speaking entirely in terms of miniatures/other online purchases rather than all the exceptions and additions]). This is a general 10% tax on all products except pretty much produce (and for some reason canned Irish stew - go figure) payable on purchase and owing to the government as a tax (in AUS prices are pretty much always shown after GST rather than before). The government is wanted to lower the threshold for GST payable on overseas/online purchases in a protectionist move to keep money in AUS rather than it going overseas (political discourse and not representative of us as people, only its elected members).

Funnily enough the threshold also includes postage for the product being bought, so AUS buyers beware.

Regardless, I like to think of these happenings with Maunsfield Gaming as some kind of narrative justice and a lesson in humility. Not quite schadenfreude, more like seeing some kind of intangible, indefinable balance returning.

 Dais wrote:
I feel bad for the locals who are losing their only shop though.

Only shop? It's in Nottinham, not far from GWHQ! People can play there.

SeanDrake wrote:

Razorback17 wrote:

SeanDrake wrote:

 notprop wrote:
This make me soooooo MAD!

Why do bad things happen to nice people!!

Poor Rob, maybe he'll be more lucky with his third attempt Maunstorm Games - Eye of the Maunstorm opening soon.

[SADFACE]

His 3rd attempt would be Mercie Miniatures and I guess he could be considered lucky after a successful Kickstarter, offloading all debts to his suppliers, avoiding a number of tax bills both foreign and domestic, dogging having to repay a grant from english heritage, paying off his mortgage and still retaining the rights to banelegions or whatever it's called now.

All above information gathered from earlier in this thread and other threads regarding his companies.

IMO you would have a lot more credibility in your one man crusade/vendetta if you didn't just make up hysterical rumours (like talking about Ponzi schemes on warseer) , foreign tax bills (how?), mortgages (on a rented property?) or the status of debts/grants that you have no information on

Normally I ignore Maelstrom trolls but the debts to suppliers and customers is pretty much known while I certainly discovered some of the issues with maelstrom by use of companies house and the accounts they filed the rest was information simply compiled from this thread finally a quick lesson in the murky world of tax and VAT .

"Payment of VAT by online retailers is a very sticky area, although the principles are simple. VAT is chargeable on goods sold within a country using e-commerce or distance selling methods (eg mail order). If you ship goods from one European country to another then VAT remains payable. Smaller businesses can simply charge their national VAT rate until a value threshold is reached, above which VAT must be charged at the national rate of the European consumer. In the UK the threshold is £70,000, €100,000 in France, Germany Netherlands, and Austria, and €35,000 in most other countries like Spain, Italy, Portugal, and Finland. Retailers need to register in each of the countries where they have customers and pay VAT to the national authorities. So a UK e-tailer could simply charge 17.5% on sales until his foreign sales had reached £70,000 after which point he would charge 19.6% on goods to France, 25% on goods to Norway etc."

If I remember correctly there is a similar issue with Australian tax laws where monies are payable directly to them over a certain amount but I don't have that information to hand so you can do the leg work on that like a good little troll and come back if I am wrong.

Finally I have no vendetta I just like many others got screwed by maelstrom and it's management when they turned it into a zombie company to try and escape there debts and I do not like getting robbed.

The only person trolling here is you - throwing out insults in an attempt to provoke a reaction and making ridiculous allegations. There is enough wrong with the situation - gamers losing their money, creditors losing out, tournament organisers being screwed over and the UK losing its best venue without making stuff up. Making up ridiculous rumours isn't needed, necessary and is counterproductive in an already bad situstion.