Maelstrom Games taking the biscuit?

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**Fenrir Kitsune**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
Dais wrote:
I feel bad for the locals who are losing their only shop though.

Only shop? It's in Nottinham, not far from GWHQ! People can play there.

Its in Mansfield, not Nottingham. Close, but still a bit of a distance away.

**motyak**

Fenrir Kitsune wrote:
H.B.M.C. wrote:
Dais wrote:
I feel bad for the locals who are losing their only shop though.

Only shop? It's in Nottinham, not far from GWHQ! People can play there.

Its in Mansfield, not Nottingham. Close, but still a bit of a distance away.

A distance by your standards, I think H.B.M.C. thinks like an Australian in that driving from top to the bottom of Ireland (well top of Northern Ireland to the bottom of the Republic) isn't really too far (it's what, 3 and a bit hours?)

edit: google maps says 36 minutes. Not too bad

**Da Boss**

Off topic: It takes more like 5 hours due to dodgey roads, depending on the route you take. The Ireland comparison.

There are other places to game in that area though AFAIK.

**notprop**

Razorback17 wrote:
SeanDrake wrote:
Razorback17 wrote:
SeanDrake wrote:
notprop wrote:
This make me soooooo MAD!

Why do bad things happen to nice people!!

Poor Rob, maybe he'll be more lucky with his third attempt Maunstorm Games - Eye of the Maunstorm opening soon.

[SADFACE]

His 3rd attempt would be Mercie Miniatures and I guess he could be considered lucky after a successful Kickstarter, offloading all debts to his suppliers, avoiding a number of tax bills both foreign and domestic, dogging having to repay a grant from english heritage, paying off his mortgage and still retaining the rights to banelegions or whatever it's called now.

All above information gathered from earlier in this thread and other threads regarding his companies.

IMO you would have a lot more credibility in your one man crusade/vendetta if you didn't just make up hysterical rumours (like talking about Ponzi schemes on warseer) , foreign tax bills (how?), mortgages (on a rented property?) or the status of debts/grants that you have no information on

Normally I ignore Maelstrom trolls but the debts to suppliers and customers is pretty much known while I certainly discovered some of the issues with maelstrom by use of companies house and the accounts they filed the rest was information simply compiled from this thread finally a quick lesson in the murky world of tax and VAT .

"Payment of VAT by online retailers is a very sticky area, although the principles are simple. VAT is chargeable on goods sold within a country using e-commerce or distance selling methods (eg mail order). If you ship goods from one European country to another then VAT remains payable. Smaller businesses can simply charge their national VAT rate until a value threshold is reached, above which VAT must be charged at the national rate of the European consumer. In the UK the threshold is £70,000, €100,000 in France, Germany Netherlands, and Austria, and €35,000 in most other countries like Spain, Italy, Portugal, and Finland. Retailers need to register in each of the countries where they have customers and pay VAT to the national authorities. So a UK e-tailer could simply charge 17.5% on sales until his foreign sales had reached £70,000 after which point he would charge 19.6% on goods to France, 25% on goods to Norway etc."

If I remember correctly there is a similar issue with Australian tax laws where monies are payable directly to them over a certain amount but I don't have that information to hand so you can do the leg work on that like a good little troll and come back if I am wrong.

Finally I have no vendetta I just like many others got screwed by maelstrom and it's management when they turned it into a zombie company to try and escape there debts and I do not like getting robbed.

The only person trolling here is you - throwing out insults in an attempt to provoke a reaction and making ridiculous allegations. There is enough wrong with the situation - gamers losing their money, creditors losing out, tournament organisers being screwed over and the UK losing its best venue without making stuff up. Making up ridiculous rumours isn't needed, necessary and is counterproductive in an already bad situstion.

I feel bad you fellers are falling out and keep quoting my little jape.

Why do bad things happen to nice people!!

This make me soooooo MAD!

**Koppo**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
Dais wrote:
I feel bad for the locals who are losing their only shop though.

Only shop? It's in Nottinham, not far from GWHQ! People can play there.

It was in Mansfield, not Nottingham. While the 18 miles between them is almost nothing to those residing in Australia or the US in the UK where distances seem to compress differently this is "a long way" and take "a long time" to get to. Remember our roads have roughly 30,000,000 vehicles on them in an area roughly the size of Wyoming and most of those are in England which is about the size of Louisiana.

**Fenrir Kitsune**

Theres also the question of people playing non GW games, which GWHQ isn't likely to welcome with open arms.

**SoulDrinker**

PsychoticStorm wrote:

Even the distributor himself (link buried in this thread too IIRC) said they were not in financial problem, but was more of a psychological thing, sorry but what Maelstrom did (in both incarnations) was outrageous, what Simple Miniatures did was bad for their reputation and what wayland did was a clever business move, but I cannot accept the biggest distributor of UK had grave issues with Maelstrom owning them money, financially not ideal, sure, breaking the company? no especially if a retailer could absorb it without an issue.

So yes, I condemn Rob for what he did, Applaud Rich for managing such maneuver, disapprove Simple miniatures decision but never believed that story.

What??????? Malestrom owed Simple vast sums of money and wasn't paying up so they sold the debt, Wayland bought the debt (as one of a few companies that made offers), Can't see how Maelstrom and Wayland are OK but Simple are the bad guys for calling in the debt collectors when they are one's who lost out the most, just because it wasn't going to damage Simple or bring them down - doesn't mean it's they would, or should allow Maelstrom to get away with it - it's not a EU bail-out fund for Maelstrom, (they are only a small family company not GW) If they'd have let him keep going more people would have lost out. I've read all the statements and had a look at the financials and it's pretty clear Maelstom were dead and buried but busily trying to salt assets and cash away before flat-lining. The fact that Wayland got to put the final nail into the coffin was a good move on their part but if it wasn't them it would just have been some nameless third party so what's the difference???

We'll now just have to wait for the courts (it's on it's way though the system now) to get this sorted out and see where all the money actually went? The customers paid MG, he didn't pay his supplies and and yet there was £300K of debt - how the hell did he manage to lose £200K on top of what was owing to Simple?

**PhantomViper**

SoulDrinker wrote:
how the hell did he manage to lose £200K on top of what was owing to Simple?

Probably went into starting / maintaining Mierce?

Just speculation here, I don't have any proof one way or the other.

**warboss**

Fenrir Kitsune wrote:
H.B.M.C. wrote:
Dais wrote:
I feel bad for the locals who are losing their only shop though.

Only shop? It's in Nottinham, not far from GWHQ! People can play there.

Its in Mansfield, not Nottingham. Close, but still a bit of a distance away.

Ah... Probably not much cross traffic between the two locations with all the crime around the latter and alot of incompetence on the part of law enforcement... but my info may be a bit olde.

**SoulDrinker**

So that's where my money went

I'll think I'll stick with driving the 40 minutes over to Simple to pick my stuff up! At least I can just take it off the shelves and see all the shiny goodness first hand. (or wait until they dig it out from the ridiculous amount of boxes that seem to come in and go out of their warehouse every day)

**PsychoticStorm**

SoulDrinker wrote:
PsychoticStorm wrote:

Even the distributor himself (link buried in this thread too IIRC) said they were not in financial problem, but was more of a psychological thing, sorry but what Maelstrom did (in both incarnations) was outrageous, what Simple Miniatures did was bad for their reputation and what wayland did was a clever business move, but I cannot accept the biggest distributor of UK had grave issues with Maelstrom owning them money, financially not ideal, sure, breaking the company? no especially if a retailer could absorb it without an issue.

So yes, I condemn Rob for what he did, Applaud Rich for managing such maneuver, disapprove Simple miniatures decision but never believed that story.

What??????? Malestrom owed Simple vast sums of money and wasn't paying up so they sold the debt, Wayland bought the debt (as one of a few companies that made offers), Can't see how Maelstrom and Wayland are OK but Simple are the bad guys for calling in the debt collectors when they are one's who lost out the most, just because it wasn't going to damage Simple or bring them down - doesn't mean it's they would, or should allow Maelstrom to get away with it - it's not a EU bail-out fund for Maelstrom, (they are only a small family company not GW) If they'd have let him keep going more people would have lost out. I've read all the statements and had a look at the financials and it's pretty clear Maelstom were dead and buried but busily trying to salt assets and cash away before flat-lining. The fact that Wayland got to put the final nail into the coffin was a good move on their part but if it wasn't them it would just have been some nameless third party so what's the difference???

We'll now just have to wait for the courts (it's on it's way though the system now) to get this sorted out and see where all the money actually went? The customers paid MG, he didn't pay his supplies and and yet there was £300K of debt - how the hell did he manage to lose £200K on top of what was owing to Simple?

From the information released from all parties Simple sold the debt to Wayland and he called in the debt collectors, if Simple had called in the debt collectors I would not mind, their money after all, but selling a debt to a competitor, that is a really bad precedent.

**Pacific**

Koppo wrote:
H.B.M.C. wrote:
Dais wrote:
I feel bad for the locals who are losing their only shop though.

Only shop? It's in Nottinham, not far from GWHQ! People can play there.

It was in Mansfield, not Nottingham. While the 18 miles between them is almost nothing to those residing in Australia or the US in the UK where distances seem to compress differently this is "a long way" and take "a long time" to get to. Remember our roads have roughly 30,000,000 vehicles on them in an area roughly the size of Wyoming and most of those are in England which is about the size of Louisiana.

You also have to think that many of these roads were built in the 16th century for use by horse and carriage, and are practically unchanged since then despite the population of the country going up by about 50 million

**Eiríkr**

Besides, Maelstrom was welcoming of all game systems and otherwise 'geeky' enterprises. Games Workshop HQ really wouldn't be chuffed if I rolled out SAGA or a game of Warlord's Pike & Shotte on one of their tables.

I live in Mansfield. It was a shame to see Maelstrom go the way it did. I regularly popped down for a chat with the staff and to purchase supplies that would otherwise require an internet order to fulfil.

**H.B.M.C.**

motyak wrote:
A distance by your standards, I think H.B.M.C. thinks like an Australian in that driving from top to the bottom of Ireland (well top of Northern Ireland to the bottom of the Republic) isn't really too far (it's what, 3 and a bit hours?)

edit: google maps says 36 minutes. Not too bad

This perception is universal. When my father first came to Australia (from England) he drove from where he was to the suburb I happen to live in. He checked to make sure there were motels in the area in case he had to stay the night. It’s a 30-40 min journey. To us that’s nothing, but England is a much smaller place, so such a drive seems longer. It’s very strange.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Fenrir Kitsune wrote:
Theres also the question of people playing non GW games, which GWHQ isn't likely to welcome with open arms.

Other games? Non-GW?

I know not of what you speak. How do these so-called "non-GW games" factor into The HHHobby?

**Rayvon**

Eiríkr wrote:
Besides, Maelstrom was welcoming of all game systems and otherwise 'geeky' enterprises. Games Workshop HQ really wouldn't be chuffed if I rolled out SAGA or a game of Warlord's Pike & Shotte on one of their tables.

I live in Mansfield. It was a shame to see Maelstrom go the way it did. I regularly popped down for a chat with the staff and to purchase supplies that would otherwise require an internet order to fulfil.

I miss it too I must admit, all i got now is GW and I get fed up with them following me around badgering me all the time.
I never met Rob and he sounds like an **** but I cannot deny the chaps in store were friendy and welcoming no matter what you wanted to play.

**MarkyMark**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
motyak wrote:
A distance by your standards, I think H.B.M.C. thinks like an Australian in that driving from top to the bottom of Ireland (well top of Northern Ireland to the bottom of the Republic) isn't really too far (it's what, 3 and a bit hours?)

edit: google maps says 36 minutes. Not too bad

This perception is universal. When my father first came to Australia (from England) he drove from where he was to the suburb I happen to live in. He checked to make sure there were motels in the area in case he had to stay the night. It’s a 30-40 min journey. To us that’s nothing, but England is a much smaller place, so such a drive seems longer. It’s very strange.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Fenrir Kitsune wrote:
Theres also the question of people playing non GW games, which GWHQ isn't likely to welcome with open arms.

Other games? Non-GW?

I know not of what you speak. How do these so-called "non-GW games" factor into The HHHobby?

Do you know how much we pay for fuel in the UK!, riddle solved.

**motyak**

Well in the suburbs of brisbane 1.40 a litre is about average, it's probably more in sydney. What is it there?

edit: that is southside suburbs about 15 mins from the city centre, dunno about in the city proper

**MarkyMark**

Petrol is 1.45 a liter on average really, diesel around 151 a liter so in your money petrol 215 a liter and 223 a liter

**motyak**

Nasty, but I guess you need to drive less distance, although your trains do get bloody expensive when heading into london and such.

**Pacific**

Our train system is ludicrously expensive. You're told to book months in advance to save money - what planet are these people on?

Actually - after living in several different countries around the world, amongst the developed nations I can confidently state that the UK has one of the most inefficient, expensive and just generally gakky transport networks of anywhere. Now with added pot holes, because the councils have run out of money to fix them.

Kind of on-topic, this place has gone now? A shame as I was hoping to attend the Flames of War event that they were going to run later in the year..

**Da Boss**

The cost of trains in the UK is completely ludicrous. It should be used as the poster child for "why you shouldn't privatise everything."

**mattyrm**

Da Boss wrote:
The cost of trains in the UK is completely ludicrous. It should be used as the poster child for "why you shouldn't privatise everything."

Lets not get into a political debate, but living in York and visiting the National Rail museum has taught me that the reason the trains were privatised was because they were hemorrhaging money and were in crazy amounts of debt.

Thatcher didn't flog them because she was an absolute moron, they made loads of cash and she just decided to sell them for a laugh.

For it to be the poster child, they would have to be running at a profit surely?

**Da Boss**

Well, I don't want to get into a debate either, but I'm okay with public transport breaking even or losing money if it provides a good service. I dunno if britain's public rail was managing that, but the private service is hugely over priced and unreliable as hell.
For comparison, when I lived in Southend, I took the train 10 minutes to work every day in a nearby village. It cost me around £80 sterling a month for that ticket, which was only to/from those two stops and didn't include any other transport.

Here in Germany I am paying 65 euro a month (so, about fifty quid). I commute 30 minutes to work, but get access to every form of public transport within my zone, which takes me well outside the area of my commute, to different towns and cities entirely. I also get to take someone for free with me in the evenings or on weekends, and the system has a train every 10 minutes or so. Sometimes they get delayed, but it's nothing like what used to happen in Essex.

And Essex has a huge commuting population, considering London is a major metropolis. Dusseldorf is tiny by comparison. I reckon you guys are getting ripped off by privatisations all over the place, but that's another debate.

TL, DR, English gamers are reluctant to commute because their transport costs are utterly out of whack.

**mattyrm**

Da Boss wrote:
Well, I don't want to get into a debate either, but I'm okay with public transport breaking even or losing money if it provides a good service. I dunno if britain's public rail was managing that, but the private service is hugely over priced and unreliable as hell.
For comparison, when I lived in Southend, I took the train 10 minutes to work every day in a nearby village. It cost me around £80 sterling a month for that ticket, which was only to/from those two stops and didn't include any other transport.

Here in Germany I am paying 65 euro a month (so, about fifty quid). I commute 30 minutes to work, but get access to every form of public transport within my zone, which takes me well outside the area of my commute, to different towns and cities entirely. I also get to take someone for free with me in the evenings or on weekends, and the system has a train every 10 minutes or so. Sometimes they get delayed, but it's nothing like what used to happen in Essex.

And Essex has a huge commuting population, considering London is a major metropolis. Dusseldorf is tiny by comparison. I reckon you guys are getting ripped off by privatisations all over the place, but that's another debate.

TL, DR, English gamers are reluctant to commute because their transport costs are utterly out of whack.

Oh yeah, fully agreed. Our trains fully take the slash.

I dont think its a good excuse for not going anywhere though... the bus service is good, I went to London with the missus on Tuesday and came back today, It was an entirely painless experience and it only cost us 30 quid.

**Da Boss**

The buses are fairly good, but I've met loads of people in the UK who won't take them. I used to use them whenever I'd visit friends in Oxford or Sheffield, they were fine.

**Azreal13**

mattyrm wrote:
Da Boss wrote:
Well, I don't want to get into a debate either, but I'm okay with public transport breaking even or losing money if it provides a good service. I dunno if britain's public rail was managing that, but the private service is hugely over priced and unreliable as hell.
For comparison, when I lived in Southend, I took the train 10 minutes to work every day in a nearby village. It cost me around £80 sterling a month for that ticket, which was only to/from those two stops and didn't include any other transport.

Here in Germany I am paying 65 euro a month (so, about fifty quid). I commute 30 minutes to work, but get access to every form of public transport within my zone, which takes me well outside the area of my commute, to different towns and cities entirely. I also get to take someone for free with me in the evenings or on weekends, and the system has a train every 10 minutes or so. Sometimes they get delayed, but it's nothing like what used to happen in Essex.

And Essex has a huge commuting population, considering London is a major metropolis. Dusseldorf is tiny by comparison. I reckon you guys are getting ripped off by privatisations all over the place, but that's another debate.

TL, DR, English gamers are reluctant to commute because their transport costs are utterly out of whack.

Oh yeah, fully agreed. Our trains fully take the slash.

I dont think its a good excuse for not going anywhere though... the bus service is good, I went to London with the missus on Tuesday and came back today, It was an entirely painless experience and it only cost us 30 quid.

Painless? Trying being 6'5"!

I travelled to London on the bus once, near 6 hours each way, incredibly cramped and while cheap, it doesn't compare to 2 hours on the train, with more space and a loo if I want it. I can do the nearest main station to Paddington return for 40 quid ish, booked a few weeks ahead. I don't call that bad value.

**MarkyMark**

Da Boss wrote:
Well, I don't want to get into a debate either, but I'm okay with public transport breaking even or losing money if it provides a good service. I dunno if britain's public rail was managing that, but the private service is hugely over priced and unreliable as hell.
For comparison, when I lived in Southend, I took the train 10 minutes to work every day in a nearby village. It cost me around £80 sterling a month for that ticket, which was only to/from those two stops and didn't include any other transport.

Here in Germany I am paying 65 euro a month (so, about fifty quid). I commute 30 minutes to work, but get access to every form of public transport within my zone, which takes me well outside the area of my commute, to different towns and cities entirely. I also get to take someone for free with me in the evenings or on weekends, and the system has a train every 10 minutes or so. Sometimes they get delayed, but it's nothing like what used to happen in Essex.

And Essex has a huge commuting population, considering London is a major metropolis. Dusseldorf is tiny by comparison. I reckon you guys are getting ripped off by privatisations all over the place, but that's another debate.

TL, DR, English gamers are reluctant to commute because their transport costs are utterly out of whack.

Yep essex has a huge amount of communitors I was one for 9 years and that was enough!. Where I live now it would cost around 120 a week to get into London (no travelcard either) before when I lived in another part of essex it cost 100 a month for being within the travelcard network. Massive difference.

Back on topic, I did attend a few events at malestrom/mansfield gaming, one in September one in October and one in Jan which I had paid for in October IIRC all where very well run and all was a good time. Never ordered anything from Malestrom as I had a closer option who offered very good service and good prices.

**warboss**

Did Maelstrom close the store and buy a railroad or something? I keep seeing this thread pop up in my unread pile but haven't seen anything related to Maelstrom nor biscuits for a while.

**notprop**

Back off topic, it will cost me £4800 this year to travel on the 25 minute fast train to the city of London! It's bloomin' extortion where as maelstrom was straight out theft!