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Grey Templar wrote:Given that Britan owned the land and gave it to the Israelis I would say its their land. Can't get much more Legal then that IMO.

Britain didn't give it to them, the UK just wiped their hands of the matter before the gak hit the fan.

Grey Templar wrote:Owned by people that are actively waging war on Israel. Seems like spoils to me.

By that definition, it's purely okay for Palestinians to go over ans murder a bunch of Israeli settlers and take their property back from the scum. After all they're at war, and it's perfectly okay to kill invaders-- and invaders are exactly what settlers are.

xole wrote:Our stealth bombers would hit them with bombs. If we wanted to EMP them that would involve nukes, which are kind of a touchy subject.

Actually there's a thing called an explosivly driven flux compression generator that sllows you to create a powerful but short range EMP using regular explosives.

Using a nuke to create a massive EMP actually would likely create little fallout, as the most effective way to create a massive nation wide EMP is to detonate the nuke about 130 miles up.


And why are people suddenly talking about Israel and Palestine?

Because of a racist's posts.

Melissia wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:Owned by people that are actively waging war on Israel. Seems like spoils to me.

By that definition, it's purely okay for Palestinians to go over ans murder a bunch of Israeli settlers and take their property back from the scum.

No, the difference is that they both had the ability and right to live together. And Israel was ok with that, but then the Palaistinians and neighboring countries decided to declare war. The palastinians never stopped fighting even after Israel kicked their butts.

Israel has the land by right of independence(from britan) and by right of conquest. The palastinians need to recognise a hopeless situation and either stop fighting their Israeli neighbors or move away.

Grey Templar wrote:No

Oh, so it's only okay for one group to be murderous xenophobic scum who attacks the other side at any opporrunity, destroying property and murdering children without being punished by law.

The other group doesn't have that right. They just have to sit there and be murdered with no legal recourse

You're being a hypocritical racist.

While I don't agree with Gray Templar Mel, I think that post is a bit... extreme

Grey Templar wrote:Given that Britan owned the land and gave it to the Israelis I would say its their land. Can't get much more Legal then that IMO.

Israel was Israel until the Romans decided they had enough. I think that trumps everyone's argument. On the positive who cares?

I have a solution: Lets nuke both of them and get back on topic.

LordofHats wrote:While I don't agree with Gray Templar Mel, I think that post is a bit... extreme

Is there a gentler word for racist then? Also for hypocrite?

Claiming that one side has the right to defend themselves, but not the other, for no reason than that they're not part of the first side, is at best a rather bizarre double standard. And claiming that all Palestinians are scum, for no reason other than being Palestinian, is racism. I guess I could say bigot, but that's not exactly any better than racist.

In fairness it wasn't Israel that started it...
They were perfectly willing to live in peace and then Palestine and friends started getting fighty...

BaronIveagh wrote:

xole wrote:Our stealth bombers would hit them with bombs. If we wanted to EMP them that would involve nukes, which are kind of a touchy subject.

Actually there's a thing called an explosivly driven flux compression generator that sllows you to create a powerful but short range EMP using regular explosives.

Using a nuke to create a massive EMP actually would likely create little fallout, as the most effective way to create a massive nation wide EMP is to detonate the nuke about 130 miles up.


And why are people suddenly talking about Israel and Palestine?

It would create lots of fallout from the resulting nuclear exchange.

EMP burst to knock out commo doesn't work. All the US military commo gear and equipment are shielded from that. A EMP works best against a civilian target because they don't have shielding. So CHina basically shooting themselves in the foot if they try that route.


edit
Unless CHina sets one off above the US then we're screwed on the civilian side of the house

edit

I'll see your bs, and raise you scientific fact, bitch.

Baron Baron Baron....seriously? We're not "back the block" here. Ease up

Frazzled wrote:
It would create lots of fallout from the resulting nuclear exchange.

Simple way to do it: fire it from a sub right off shore in NK in the direction of US troops. It detonates at the top of the arc instead of coming back down. Instant EMP, it makes it look like another Korean rocket clusterfeth, AND, at least temporarily, pins the blame on someone else.


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Jihadin wrote:EMP burst to knock out commo doesn't work. All the US military commo gear and equipment are shielded from that. A EMP works best against a civilian target because they don't have shielding. So CHina basically shooting themselves in the foot if they try that route.

A lot of Chinese military equipment isn't.

Granted a lot of chinese equipment might not be shielded but then we have to deal with the aftermath. We would need the civilian infrastructure mainly the airport/seaport to conduct logistical operations. EMP will knock them out and we can really ill afford the time to get them back up or clear the disable aircrafts and ships. EMP does does choose any sides but its own

Jihadin wrote:Granted a lot of chinese equipment might not be shielded but then we have to deal with the aftermath. We would need the civilian infrastructure mainly the airport/seaport to conduct logistical operations. EMP will knock them out and we can really ill afford the time to get them back up or clear the disable aircrafts and ships. EMP does does choose any sides but its own

If you calculate the detonation correctly, the EMPs AoE can be manipulated. Smaller area, lower altitude blast.

If you calculate the detonation correctly, the EMPs AoE can be manipulated. Smaller area, lower altitude blast

Now your playing with fire.

Yes I am sure its that easy. In fact, since China has lots of natural resources, I don't see why we don't do it now. Should be a cakewalk according yo BaronIveagh. Frankly I'm shocked France or Tawain haven't already taken over. Think of the increased tax base and how we could reduce the overall unemployment rate by adding 400mm or so emplyed persons. I don't see anything that could go wrong.

dogma wrote:

Why would a US supported Hanoi be a greater deterrent than the Philippines? They already have a very strong connection with the US (going back decades), and have already placed themselves in opposition to Chinese expansion into the SCS.

1. The Philippines are a pushover, Vietnam isn't. Vietnam is still communistic and thus can call on its people to perform sacrifices. Philippines are broadly westernised, western ideology, western political base etc, itsd easier to appeal to partisan self interest with a westernised nation than with a hardcore nation where the party line really means something.

2. Vietnam is first in the line. The Philippines will want to hold the islands off their own coast, this gives China the opportunity to deal with them last. As divide and rule is a strategy the Chinese are very good at I think they would win.

3. This doesn't mean don't support the Philippines, just dont start there. If Vietnam puts its foot down with US backing and says no other nations around the rim may join them. Back those that do with an offer to provide satellite intel if China flexes fleet muscles and offer to fast tracked sale of a limited number of land based anti-ship missiles at bargain prices.

4. Clinton visited Hanoi in the 90's the past is more or less laid to rest already. A US-Vietnamese alliance ought not to be too difficult to achieve, and there is certainly a need.

Its a tough move either way, China has already made very strong diplomatic noises about the little the US has already said and done. If the US wants to back their allies in the region it will help to make new ones in the process.

Jihadin wrote:Now your playing with fire.

Use a lower yield then. There's more then one way to skin a cat.

Frazzled wrote:Yes I am sure its that easy. In fact, since China has lots of natural resources, I don't see why we don't do it now. Should be a cakewalk according yo BaronIveagh. Frankly I'm shocked France or Tawain haven't already taken over. Think of the increased tax base and how we could reduce the overall unemployment rate by adding 400mm or so emplyed persons. I don't see anything that could go wrong.

Never said it would be a cakewalk in the least. It would be a brutal, nasty sort of ground war and there would be a LOT of civilian casualties, even if both sides take the maximum precautions. Which I doubt.

Frazz, don't mistake 'possible' for 'easy'.

BaronIveagh wrote:Frazz, don't mistake 'suicide' for 'possible'.

Corrected your typo

4. Clinton visited Hanoi in the 90's the past is more or less laid to rest already. A US-Vietnamese alliance ought not to be too difficult to achieve, and there is certainly a need.

This. Is quite surprising how quickly past grievances can be forgotten based on the demands of present political interests.

Use a lower yield then. There's more then one way to skin a cat.

A nuke is a nuke. No two way about it.

Some nukes are more equal than others?

Start small like Baron says....and watch it escalate. Everything a legitimate target then

Frazzled wrote:
Corrected your typo

Ok, Frazz, enlighten me as to how it's impossible.

Jihadin wrote:Start small like Baron says....and watch it escalate. Everything a legitimate target then

In most wars, everything is. However, that was part of the point in creating doubt as to who fired it. Making it look like a failed attempt by Korea gives the US plausible deniable.


That said, how does one defuse a nations launch capability? All I can really come up with is a decapitation strike on their capital, assuming they follow the Two Man rule in the same manner the US does. It would have to be the first strike, and it would have to be something that initially can't be traced back to the US. Some sort of engineered natural disaster.

I can tell you how to eliminate their launch capability over a large part of China, but not the whole thing.

BaronIveagh wrote:That said, how does one defuse a nations launch capability? All I can really come up with is a decapitation strike on their capital, assuming they follow the Two Man rule in the same manner the US does. It would have to be the first strike, and it would have to be something that initially can't be traced back to the US. Some sort of engineered natural disaster.

...

Or just help political extremists kill the party leadership which seems infinitely more plausible XD (and would make a decent "True Story" movie 80 years later )

LordofHats wrote:Or just help political extremists kill the party leadership which seems infinitely more plausible XD (and would make a decent "True Story" movie 80 years later )

DoD has their new private space program. Why not drop a small asteroid on them?

In most wars, everything is. However, that was part of the point in creating doubt as to who fired it. Making it look like a failed attempt by Korea gives the US plausible deniable.

You forget we have US troops on the penninsula to.

BaronIveagh wrote:

DoD has their new private space program. Why not drop a small asteroid on them?

That would actually be pretty bad ass (not very discreet though XD)

And would also make an awesome movie. About Chinese oil drillers sent to space to stop the astroiad