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Good point on the pricing issue too - that "MSRP" could leave people thinking about not wanting to have another "GW" in their life...

 Alpharius wrote:
Good point on the pricing issue too - that "MSRP" could leave people thinking about not wanting to have another "GW" in their life...

Or Infinity, Mr. Infinity in your banner! The solution isn't to just get rid of the future MSRP details from the kickstarter and then just charge them anyways (which is the easiest way to "address" the sticker shock) but rather to find out why individual figs are $25 and whether they truely need to be. It seems like the owner is trying to go with plastic for the first release so I'm not sure if scaling the figs back IMMEDIATELY to a scale that looks appropriate with Infinity and Star Wars CMG will save much material cost but it seems like something to look into that also addresses the use of the figs outside of Thon only games. Another is whether the kickstarter should cover the entirety of the plastic costs or whether some figs should rather go with resin or metal instead to save on some of those initial costs. When I see things like $25 characters and $50 shipping quotes for a box of minis, I instinctively think that the kickstarter is trying to pay for too much of the start up costs with the KS instead of using it as an adjunct to the more traditional start up funding sources. I want to (at least) see these figs in stores as I would like to pick up a Vatok, honor guard, and some of the Fireborn fodder and/or characters assuming I can use them with my other scifi proportionately scaled minis. If I can get a good enough deal on the starter set as well as more of the details clarified, I might even go in on the KS for a core set just for the portion of figs I want.

Something does need to change though as the KS officially stopped being stalled two days ago and started instead backsliding. The number of "early bird" core sets available has more than doubled in that time to 16.

I'm a touch confused by this KS,
It's not clear to me what I'm actually getting for my money.
Maybe I'm just being a bit thick.
It's my second one, and my previous (Rogue Trooper by Mongoose) was lovely and clear as to what you would get at each level.

I've pledged the Core Runner set,
As far as I can tell I get the box, a hadback rule book, and the choice of two add ons.
The question is, do I have to pay extra for the add ons? am I just getting the oppertunity to buy them at the discounted price, or do I get them outright?

I am toying with upping to the next level to get the 4 add ons,

I like the look of this game, the aesthetic is pretty sweet.

At that level, you get to choose 2 'exclusives' for "free" (i.e., included in your pledge price).

You are, of course, free to add more money to your pledge and buy more things, for the prices listed.

I think.

That makes more sense.
Thank You.
I may up to the $200 level depending on scale/more cool stuff arriving.

Some games only raise so much. But what I like about this kickstarter is you can see they have put their own money to develop it. It's isn't a completed product going into kickstarter like zomibicide. The amount of money the have raised will produce a completed game and hopefully get it into shops!

Maybe it's stalled as they weren't fully prepared for the kickstarter beyond the original game?

I think it's the scale issue, and the fact that it's so hard to get questions answered. The shipping question should really be made crystal clear by now, but it seemingly isn't!

If they can be a bit clearer in their communication, and get some prints made of the models (just at Shapeways or anywhere) real quickly of a better scale, I think they'll be fine.

If a KS like this "only" raised $50K when all was said and done, it would be a success to me. I think folks have seen the really successful KS's and raised the bar beyond what it would be. You can do a lot with $50K upfront as a start-up. That was unheard of a few years ago. I know they'd be basically selling product beforehand, but it gives them a huge jumpstart they wouldn't have been able to get otherwise.

So, moderate expectations, and you can't be disappointed . Not everything needs to be six figures to be a success!

Scale is a big issue, price maybe, trying to be 3 things at once a problem too, I feel communication is a big issue too, if not the biggest of them all.

To me it's scale and price. I'm good with dreamforge troopers being larger than GW, but mark made so many options that they could replace imp. Guard completely. This ks just doesn't do double duty on the tabletop, so my money doesn't go as far. Love the look of the models, but not enough to buy a whole system when others might not enjoy it.

I don't know how I can be any more clear on the shipping:

$25 outside US.
Free in US/Canada.

As for communication, if you have a question, I'd be happy to answer it here or on the comments tab on KS.

Scale pic will be sent out in tonight's update.

Thanks guys.

Sounds great about the scale pic! For shipping, is it always free to US (no matter the options) and always $25 to international? Or $25 per box / per certain number of add-ons?

I beleive with the right scale it will go up because Dystopian Wars shot themselves in the foot being out of scale with everything else on the tabletop. If the scale is right it has the ability to do double duty hence able to use has stand in for 40k or warmachine therefore demand will be greater. Look at those Ord soldiers if they scale to say a terminator I need a ton. It's all about usability for most with so many ks out right now not saying it can't still be successful. Could do more with right scale though.

Okidan_Champion wrote:
I don't know how I can be any more clear on the shipping:

$25 outside US.
Free in US/Canada.

As for communication, if you have a question, I'd be happy to answer it here or on the comments tab on KS.

Scale pic will be sent out in tonight's update.

Thanks guys.

Thanks for the quick response. The above is crystal clear. Unfortunately you instead have the following under shipping along with another disclaimer under the early bird core set mentioning another $25 for international shipping.

Shipping a single Core Set costs over $50. So I am splitting with you 50-50. Please add $25 per Core Set to cover shipping. Shipping is painfully expensive.

The above does NOT specify who it applies to and the strict literal leading of your lament about shipping under the FAQ would be that EVERYONE gets charged $25 shipping per core set with international customers paying a total of $50 per set to account for the extra $25 listed under certain pledge levels.

By no means I want to undermine the will and commitment in answering question, if this came as that I am deeply sorry.

The problem is that questions for example for shipping arise even now that it has been discussed to death, it can only mean the message was not communicated clearly enough.

In any case looking forward to today's scale pic and am hopeful in a positive rebound.

I am also greatly looking forward to the scale pic, as these are amazing models, but I would want to be able to use them in other games as well.

 Alpharius wrote:
Good point on the pricing issue too - that "MSRP" could leave people thinking about not wanting to have another "GW" in their life...

I hate to say it, but I keep coming back to this myself. I don't care how amazing the sculpt or how high-quality the casts are, no single infantry-sized model is worth $20+ to me. GW priced me out with crap like that, along with $80 rulebooks, $50 codices, and $80 flyers. And as much as I like the Thon aesthetic and really want this game to take off, I don't think I can justify getting into another game with such outrageous, GW-level pricing. The Kickstarter is a good deal, but like most I don't aim to game purely with what's in the starter box and want to expand later, and if those prices don't come down considerably I don't think I can do it.

The scale issues on the other hand I don't really give a feth about, and personally I hate how that's such a big issue. People need to stop judging other games based on the ease of which they can proxy the models for 40k. I'm tired of only having one game to play, I'm bored with models sticking to one stupid aesthetic with gothic architecture and skulls everywhere, because they won't sell models if they do something different. I like the fireborn soldiers based on their own merits, not because "These would make good terminators for 40k!", and Daughtus is a cool-looking character regardless of how easy you could convert him into an Inquisitor.

May I ask what single infantry-sized model you see for sale at $20+? Every add-on save the Spirit of Thon is multiple minis and it has been said that the Spirit is a large model.

 Sidstyler wrote:


The scale issues on the other hand I don't really give a feth about, and personally I hate how that's such a big issue. People need to stop judging other games based on the ease of which they can proxy the models for 40k. I'm tired of only having one game to play, I'm bored with models sticking to one stupid aesthetic with gothic architecture and skulls everywhere, because they won't sell models if they do something different. I like the fireborn soldiers based on their own merits, not because "These would make good terminators for 40k!", and Daughtus is a cool-looking character regardless of how easy you could convert him into an Inquisitor.

I think scale wise its not so much "its not 40k sized"

Well to me its "its called 28mm, yet everything shown is exceeding 40mm or so". The pics we have been shown are the pre production upscaled models. To me it makes little sense to show those models in terms of scale and yet advertise the game to a different measurement of the supposed models. Its like showing 3 Ups right next to normal sized models without the downsized versions to match

 kilcin wrote:
May I ask what single infantry-sized model you see for sale at $20+? Every add-on save the Spirit of Thon is multiple minis and it has been said that the Spirit is a large model.

Tyrian comes with four drones. Maybe it's just because I'm a Tau player but I don't consider drones to be "models", more like accessories. And I'm not entirely impressed by the drone designs anyway.

Daughtus and Vakon are both single models and they're priced at $25.

For my taste the game tries to be too much at once.

 Sidstyler wrote:

Daughtus and Vakon are both single models and they're priced at $25.

I didn't look at those because I didn't see a reason to add them, my apologies.

Thon Update wrote:
Photo - Vakon Scale Revised

Attached is a revised and more accurately scaled Vakon. The older scaled up version on the left, and more accurately scaled version on the right. As we prep and prototype each model, proportions and scale will be adjusted so that the mini can withstand handling on the table, retain detail when painted and be broken up into the parts for tooling. It is a delicate balance of aesthetic and manufacturing requirements.

Should help with scale.

That marine is on a pretty tall base... Vakon is still a giant. Maybe he's supposed to be, though, and "normal" models would be shorter... but there's no way to tell that unfortunately.

The scale is close enough for me. That is all I was worried about I'm in for the long haul. The only question I have is the Ord soldiers scale to what.

 Sidstyler wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
Good point on the pricing issue too - that "MSRP" could leave people thinking about not wanting to have another "GW" in their life...

I hate to say it, but I keep coming back to this myself. I don't care how amazing the sculpt or how high-quality the casts are, no single infantry-sized model is worth $20+ to me. GW priced me out with crap like that, along with $80 rulebooks, $50 codices, and $80 flyers. And as much as I like the Thon aesthetic and really want this game to take off, I don't think I can justify getting into another game with such outrageous, GW-level pricing. The Kickstarter is a good deal, but like most I don't aim to game purely with what's in the starter box and want to expand later, and if those prices don't come down considerably I don't think I can do it.

The scale issues on the other hand I don't really give a feth about, and personally I hate how that's such a big issue. People need to stop judging other games based on the ease of which they can proxy the models for 40k. I'm tired of only having one game to play, I'm bored with models sticking to one stupid aesthetic with gothic architecture and skulls everywhere, because they won't sell models if they do something different. I like the fireborn soldiers based on their own merits, not because "These would make good terminators for 40k!", and Daughtus is a cool-looking character regardless of how easy you could convert him into an Inquisitor.

Well, sorry Sid, but quite a lot of us do play primarily GW games, and look around at other miniature lines to provide us with cheaper alternatives or variety. We are as free to express our desire that new minis fit into the scale we favour as you are to complain about other people's preferences.

Hey Sid. The scale issue has nothing to do with being GW compatible for a lot of is here. It has to do with requiring is to completely re-outfit our tables with terrain. That's a big deal.

_Price has come up a number of times.
I'd be interested to hear peoples thoughts on what is acceptable/similarly priced goods, or what you *want* to pay for these and other models?

The MSRP is not set in stone and I will lower it as much as I can. Until they are manufactured and shipped I can't say with certainty.

Take a look at Malifaux's pricing or boxing strategy. They're considered a little bit pricey, but worth it for plastic figures. Generally, a hero figure goes for $11 to $16, while the boxes, which contain 5 or more guys depending on the box, go for $35. For things like drones or basic soldiers that people need a lot of, try looking at Dreamforge pricing. A larger box with a lot of options might make the price-per-model radio easier to adjust.

For me, what it comes down to is that I'm not interested in a new game, because I like several of the models but not all of them. Many of the models are absolutely beautiful, but I don't have the funds to actually buy a box for a game.

In any case, I may be more niche market, since I plan on pledging to get some of the sniper models. I like their price of $15 for two, because they're highly detailed and well-designed. It's extremely hard to get sanely-sculpted female soldiers, so these are perfect for me.

However, since they're $15 for the two, I will be buying them to be something I spend a lot of time and effort turning into showcase models, since I'll only have a few of them. If I could get a box of five or ten for $25-35ish, then I would jump on them and use them as snipers for 40k, because that's the price I'd pay for comparable models for GW/Malifaux/PP/etc.

A really nice revision to the stretch goals. As per the kickstarter update page:

Due to us dropping below the first stretch I have revised the goals. I have upped the model counts on all of the stretch goals x2 and the first goal x5. Each Stretch goal still includes a new sculpt. There will also be mini-stretches between each big stretch.

Well, I'm onboard. Can't wait