Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

The Swarmlord does not need a buff at all. if you're finding he's vulnerable to incoming ranged fire, he has an option - take Tyrant Guard.

As he is, he's a fantastic army buffer via psychic powers and innate abilities like handing out furious charge and boosting the reliability of reserves, on top of being a Hive Tyrant with a 4++ assault save that hands out instant death attacks for gaks and giggles, making him not only the best batstick in the game, but a fantastic support character.

Everything needs a weakness. His isn't assault - the only unit capable of semi reliably beating him is an MSS Necron Lord, and if the Swarmlord gets Iron Arm, it takes 3 consecutive turns to beat himself to death (which is hugely unlikely). It's not at support - he hands out plenty of bonuses. It's not as a psyker, considering he's a mastery level 2 model (which will probably go up in the next book).

His weakness is range. If you want to kill him, shoot him. If you want to protect him from that, pay for Tyrant Guard.

 -Loki- wrote:
The Swarmlord does not need a buff at all. if you're finding he's vulnerable to incoming ranged fire, he has an option - take Tyrant Guard.

As he is, he's a fantastic army buffer via psychic powers and innate abilities like handing out furious charge and boosting the reliability of reserves, on top of being a Hive Tyrant with a 4++ assault save that hands out instant death attacks for gaks and giggles, making him not only the best batstick in the game, but a fantastic support character.

Everything needs a weakness. His isn't assault - the only unit capable of semi reliably beating him is an MSS Necron Lord, and if the Swarmlord gets Iron Arm, it takes 3 consecutive turns to beat himself to death (which is hugely unlikely). It's not at support - he hands out plenty of bonuses. It's not as a psyker, considering he's a mastery level 2 model (which will probably go up in the next book).

His weakness is range. If you want to kill him, shoot him. If you want to protect him from that, pay for Tyrant Guard.

Couldn't have said it better myself. Give him one guard and he should be alright, give him two and he'll make it to any combat and make your enemies cry, give him three...well if you got the points why not!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ductvader wrote:
I could get on board with the above but it must be realize that GW is working towards simplifying rules...especially army wide rules...and so it would probably be an all or nothing kkind of thing. Though I Believe it's going to be a psychic power, if not only a LD test. LD 10 barely cares but it has the chance of failure.

IB is where I reckon things will change. I don't think feed will stay rage personally...it's too useful to be "the downside"...as lurk has the downside of not being able to get within range if weapons. In factt, I don't see any of the current USRs to be feed-like.

I think they will go back to just falling back if out of synapse and a LD test fails. Like mentioned they're trying to make things simpler and with an army that already has a lot of quirks this may be an easy way to do it. Frankly i like the flavor different IB gives and would like if it stayed around

You know, I really, really, want to talk about my 2 favorite units, the Tyranid Warrior Prime and Parasite of Mortrex. and at the end, I will stand on my soapbox and blow some minds.

Tyranid Prime:
I really just like how he augments the warrior broods. Now, going with what others have said, he really needs to be allowed to join warriors in a pod. Also, he needs options to join a Shrike group. That way, it is viable to make a true shrike deathstar.

Parasite of Mortrex:
This guy really needs some love when it comes to it's babies. It should extend it's improved synapse to Sky Slasher Swarms. It still only produces rippers, but now it makes it feasible to have an all Ripper Swarm army. Also, making swarms within synapse range scoring would also be nifty too.

And now, it is time to ascend the pulpit that would be my thoughts.

Fellow Tyranid organisms, it is time to bring up the topic of the one thing we are truly missing in our lives. The one thing that all others take for granted, and which we are denied on our weapons. Rapid-fire is a wonderful logistical nightmare which we are missing on our greatest weapon. I of course mean our true weapon of power, The Spinefist. This weapon is truly wonderful in its ability to twin-link shots, but it deserves more. Give us twin-linked rapid fire spinefists, or give us death!


Now on a serious note, anyone else thing we should have at least one rapid fire weapon. Personally, I'd want it to be the spinefist, just because of the fact that no one would ever dare call it a stupid weapon ever again. Also, options to take different things as troops. So you can have an all ripper army, all flying army, or even a completely TMC only army.

Spinefists aren't a stupid weapon...they just only only only belong on Raveners, rippers, and sky slashers.

The real weapon that needs your rapid fire ness is the spike rifle.

Tyranid swarms need to change...right now they're at the bottom of the barrel for swarms and don't really do much different from other troops besides be not scoring and die easier to templates. Honestly I'd like to see rippers and sky slashers regenerate wounds/bases every time they win a combat.

If the Tyranid Prime got wings that costed 25 pts (or less) I wouldn't need anything else in an update.

 ductvader wrote:
Spinefists aren't a stupid weapon...they just only only only belong on Raveners, rippers, and sky slashers.

The real weapon that needs your rapid fire ness is the spike rifle.

Tyranid swarms need to change...right now they're at the bottom of the barrel for swarms and don't really do much different from other troops besides be not scoring and die easier to templates. Honestly I'd like to see rippers and sky slashers regenerate wounds/bases every time they win a combat.

If the Tyranid Prime got wings that costed 25 pts (or less) I wouldn't need anything else in an update.

But...but...if it goes to the spike rifle, ripper swarms do not get shenanigans. After all, lets look at some of the fun things you could do with that upgrade. 9 deepstriking spinefist swarms shooting inside of rapid fire range magically produce 72 S3 twin-linked shots. That's perfectly fair for a 180pt unit. And I never said spinefists are stupid. I rather like them for my rippers.

 Unyielding Hunger wrote:

 ductvader wrote:
Spinefists aren't a stupid weapon...they just only only only belong on Raveners, rippers, and sky slashers.

The real weapon that needs your rapid fire ness is the spike rifle.

Tyranid swarms need to change...right now they're at the bottom of the barrel for swarms and don't really do much different from other troops besides be not scoring and die easier to templates. Honestly I'd like to see rippers and sky slashers regenerate wounds/bases every time they win a combat.

If the Tyranid Prime got wings that costed 25 pts (or less) I wouldn't need anything else in an update.

But...but...if it goes to the spike rifle, ripper swarms do not get shenanigans. After all, lets look at some of the fun things you could do with that upgrade. 9 deepstriking spinefist swarms shooting inside of rapid fire range magically produce 72 S3 twin-linked shots. That's perfectly fair for a 180pt unit. And I never said spinefists are stupid. I rather like them for my rippers.

Rapid fire doesn't belong on spine fists - the units that benefit from them most need to ASSAULT after shooting. H

I really just disagree because I don't want rippers to be shooty...look at the little snakes.,..if anything they should just drop the "guns" and give them "counts as" defensive grenades for increased survivability to overwatch with that 8" stealth bubble...and because honestly who out there is prepared to fight a bunch of snakes? No one...that's why they invented flamthrowers.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I typically don't think rapid fire should be in this codex...I just don't see a tyranid deciding that shooting more is better than not eating the tasty treat.

Rippers definitely need something to make them worthwhile. I'd prefer something along the lines of drowning in bodies rather than being stealthy. Carpet isn't stealthy, and Rippers are always referred to as a living carpet.

Something like reducing the attacks of a unit they're in combat with by 1 would be nice, or even a Lashwhip effect, reducing enemy Initiative. It would give you a reason to take them and try to multiassault an enemy unit. It would show Rippers, while not particularly threatening themselves, can just swamp an enemy so they're too busy fighting off little mouths to notice a brood of Warriors pressing down on them with Boneswords.

In the same way, Sky Slashers need a role. Anti air would be fitting - suicide assault flyers, showing the Hive Mind using them as a way to bring down flyers simply by flying them into engine intakes and cockpits. Something like each base making its attacks, but only hitting flyers on a 6. Any 6's cause glancing hits, but cause wounds on the Sky Slashers with no saves allowed. So a brood would be able to, with weight of attacks, glance a flyer to death. Your opponent can stop this happening by focusing firing on the Sky Slashers which are otherwise pretty worthless targets, or otherwise have their flyers glanced to death.

That being said...I really think the Harpy needs to get a sky assault rule to rip fliers to shreds. And it's bound to happen if GW makes a model they want to sell...Once we get a whiff of which models are coming out we'll be able to guess rules fairly accurately.

I think rippers should be immune to instant death too...killing one snake doesnt kill 3...sure...the templates and blasts kill double already. Instant death doesn't make sense on swarms to me.

We're seeing rad pop up in most armies since GKs...maybe a unit in assault with rippers will count as being -1 T for the combat or one round?

Yeah, assaulting flyers should really be Tyranids 'thing'. I'm sure plenty of Chaos players will moan about the daemon princes, but Harpies and Harridans catching flyers mid flight and ripping them apart and Skyslashers suiciding into intakes just feels so Tyranid.

Though I still think we should get a Dactylis with flakk spores as well.

i would really love spinefists to be useful on gaunts in someway

 -Loki- wrote:
The Swarmlord...

While this is mostly spot-on, the only things I'd argue is that for his rather high point cost he should have ML3/4 and Eternal Warrior.
Armoured Shell is a definite no, he's already tough enough when he gets Endurance / Iron Arm.

 -Loki- wrote:
Rippers definitely need something to make them worthwhile. I'd prefer something along the lines of drowning in bodies rather than being stealthy. Carpet isn't stealthy, and Rippers are always referred to as a living carpet..

I think they need to play up the 'Ripper' aspect of them - lots of razor sharp teeth and claws tearing into weak spots. They should get Rending without a doubt. I also like the idea of reducing enemy attacks based on the size of the swarm, such as -1 A for every enemy is base contact with a Ripper base. It may be interesting if Rippers didn't use a FOC slot, but were instead either a 'bonus' unit like Techmarines based on the rest of the armies composition, or an upgrade for other units. So you could either take X Ripper bases for every Y troops choices, or buy them to join into a larger unit like Warriors / Hormagaunts as a melee buff.

 xttz wrote:

 -Loki- wrote:
The Swarmlord...

While this is mostly spot-on, the only things I'd argue is that for his rather high point cost he should have ML3/4 and Eternal Warrior.
Armoured Shell is a definite no, he's already tough enough when he gets Endurance / Iron Arm.

Iron Arm gives him Eternal Warrior, and he has an 85% to get it if he is (and he should be) taking Biomancy.

I can almost guaruntee that Hive Guard are going to be our tank hunters...I think they'll stay BS4 S8 Ignores cover with skyfire

Maybe similar to the hydra where is can only hit skimmers and fliers well.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Rippers joining other units...with this pull from the front mechanic that gets too ridiculously good to ever be true.

Tyranids shouldn't have eternal warrior if only for fluff...they aren't eternal...they're consistently turned into goo and back again...even the superwarriors...if the hive mind wanted to make more swarmlords...they would...fortunately they know any more than one is overkill and a waste of resources for him to use

 ductvader wrote:
I can almost guaruntee that Hive Guard are going to be our tank hunters...I think they'll stay BS4 S8 Ignores cover with skyfire

Maybe similar to the hydra where is can only hit skimmers and fliers well.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Rippers joining other units...with this pull from the front mechanic that gets too ridiculously good to ever be true.

Tyranids shouldn't have eternal warrior if only for fluff...they aren't eternal...they're consistently turned into goo and back again...even the superwarriors...if the hive mind wanted to make more swarmlords...they would...fortunately they know any more than one is overkill and a waste of resources for him to use

I say they'll have the standard s8 ground missile and s7 flakk missile, with the flakk being a 10pt upgrade. (hive guard)

As for eternal warrior - yes the tyranids re-digest all biomatter including their own, but the fact remains that to perform in a combat environment efficiently, the ground troops need to be *tough* and *resilient* enough to wade through enemy fire and get into combat. That is what the eternal warrior rule would represent - much as it did in the 4th ed book, it would simply allow synapse creatures to be protected from weapons double their toughness. Force weapons, remove from play effects, etc would still work on them.

I'm currently hoarding warriors, as they're not very good in the current meta. Given the cyclical nature of codices, and the fact that 3 of these things retail for $47, i'm going on the assumption that they WILL be better in some form in a new updated book. Whether it be due to the eternal warrior rules hinted at (basically Instant Death would cause D3 wounds instead), or getting T5 standard (making a tyranid prime T6) something will probably be done to make them better. At least, i hope, or i'm goign to have about 30 useless warriors for ANOTHER 4+ years LOL

I think you're very right on the Warrior front...the only way I can work them now is hive commander outflanking them with devourers and rending claws

As for eternal warrior...i like my fluff and would rather see "immune to instant death" like the BT wargear (mantle or carapace or something) that makes their ICs immune. Yeah, I know it's essentially the same thing.

I think that with the release of marines and eldar vehicle-ness...those hive guard will stay S8...even against fliers. It would work to even out the meta...and GW is trying to constantly evolve and even this game out...a more even game means more people will diversify and buy more things...meaning more money.

I've honestly only ever used rippers we back when i started in 4th. They just seemed like a waste of points now but then again i've not really gave them much thought so maybe i'm wrong. When i played necrons the scarab swarms were super usefull and could even munch their way through a take with the right rolls. Are rippers just as good? how do you play them usually?

Rippers are nowhere near just as good.

My rippers take toxin sacs because they usually get assaulted. Rippers aren't really worth it over termagants or hormagaunts.

My Sky slashers on the other hand...I will kit to all h***...if you want to create a threat vector, give them spinefists OR give them adrenal glands and toxin sacs...they'll usually get the charge and will dole out some serious pain to anything they hit...

With everyone taking single shot weapons for flier hunting there is an absence of flamers and templates...making swarms more viable.

 tetrisphreak wrote:
At least, i hope, or i'm goign to have about 30 useless warriors for ANOTHER 4+ years LOL

Between my old white plastic warriors, my metal warriors, and my current plastic warriors I have around 50... Made me sad the first time I fielded 27 against a long fang spam list and put them on the shelf.

Bust em out now...S8 doesn't really exist outside of melta guns, Lances, and IG right now.

Multiwound T4 is loving the current meta.

There's still plenty of S8+ in my meta. I've been thinking about it though.

 ductvader wrote:
Bust em out now...S8 doesn't really exist outside of melta guns, Lances, and IG right now.

Multiwound T4 is loving the current meta.

Unless you're playing DE and SW...

had an idea last night at the FLGS...

Gargoyles could have a suicide attack against an enemy flyer. Up to 5 gargoyles atracking a flyer glance it on 6s. 5-10 glance on 5s pen on 6s. Basically, like pigeons at an airport, they blind the pilot, jam the engines, or rip up the wings.

and how many gargoyles would you lose in this suicide attack?

While it would be fluffy it wouldn't be a useful rule (similar to the Trygon tunnel now...). Gargoyles have better things to do than hunt Flyers.

well... suicide would usually mean the models have killed themselves, so... all of them?

And I'm proposing it to be a prime role for gargoyles, but if one was being hounded by a nasty flyer, sacrificing some gargoyles wouldn't be too bad.

So sacrifice 60-80 points for a 2/3 chance to do nothing? That isn't a good trade off.
edit: To clarify, Skyfire on Tyrants is almost enough - giving Harpies something to do against Air that'd be plenty. Having some emergency "SAVE YOURSELF" move for gargoyles just doesn't seem good to me.

If this was to ever be a thing...and I doubt it would...I would make it so you only take as many wounds as the amount of hits you cause...striking on rear armor of course.

-Loki- wrote: Iron Arm gives him Eternal Warrior, and he has an 85% to get it if he is (and he should be) taking Biomancy.

ductvader wrote:
Tyranids shouldn't have eternal warrior if only for fluff...they aren't eternal...they're consistently turned into goo and back again...even the superwarriors...if the hive mind wanted to make more swarmlords...they would...fortunately they know any more than one is overkill and a waste of resources for him to use

tetrisphreak wrote:
As for eternal warrior - yes the tyranids re-digest all biomatter including their own, but the fact remains that to perform in a combat environment efficiently, the ground troops need to be *tough* and *resilient* enough to wade through enemy fire and get into combat. That is what the eternal warrior rule would represent

It's more due to the fact that virtually every other codex gets at least one expensive, unique unit with Eternal Warrior... Calgar, Mephiston, Phoenix Lords, Drahzar, even Yarrick. Then you have what is basically a walking tank worth more points than a Land Raider, and yet he can die to a single poke from a force weapon. It just seems odd to me that the pinnacle of Tyranid evolution is more vulnerable to being instantly struck down than a geriatric with a pointy hat and stolen power claw.

ductvader wrote:I can almost guaruntee that Hive Guard are going to be our tank hunters...I think they'll stay BS4 S8 Ignores cover with skyfire

I think they'll be flyer-hunters. S7 Heavy 2 Skyfire, probably with a points hike. Up until now GW have been putting pretty ridiculous points costs on most things with skyfire, especially if it's a model that already existed from an earlier codex. Just look at the flakk missile options for DA / CSM / Eldar.
Hive Guard were one of the best-selling Tyranid models in 5th, so GW won't be expecting to sell too many more under a new codex.

Don't Tau get Skyfire on basically everything, and for silly cheap?

I don't mind the idea of hive guard getting Skyfire, or adding flakk spores to biovores or dactylis, but I echo the earlier statements of turning the harpy into a flyer-killer. As it stands, it's a FMC that can't shoot flyers. Take away the blast guns and trade them for some cool Vector Strike bonuses.

With what the Riptide and Wraithknight bring, I'd be surprised if the Carnifex didn't get cheaper.

 tetrisphreak wrote:

As for eternal warrior - yes the tyranids re-digest all biomatter including their own, but the fact remains that to perform in a combat environment efficiently, the ground troops need to be *tough* and *resilient* enough to wade through enemy fire and get into combat. That is what the eternal warrior rule would represent - much as it did in the 4th ed book, it would simply allow synapse creatures to be protected from weapons double their toughness. Force weapons, remove from play effects, etc would still work on them.

I'm currently hoarding warriors, as they're not very good in the current meta. Given the cyclical nature of codices, and the fact that 3 of these things retail for $47, i'm going on the assumption that they WILL be better in some form in a new updated book. Whether it be due to the eternal warrior rules hinted at (basically Instant Death would cause D3 wounds instead), or getting T5 standard (making a tyranid prime T6) something will probably be done to make them better. At least, i hope, or i'm goign to have about 30 useless warriors for ANOTHER 4+ years LOL

The majority of your army is not getting Eternal Warrior. There's a reason why Daemons lost theirs.