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 Ashiraya wrote:

Codex: Space Marines 6th edition, page 79, 3rd paragraph wrote:A Chapter Master has the authority to act as he wishes and is answerable only to others of his rank.

Emphasis mine.

Seems this misconception with Inquisitors being able to command Chapters is well and truly broken, eh?

I think he is answerable to other of his rank or higher. I think an Inquisitor is higher ranked than him. I think this sentence is just there to show he is not answerable to planetary governors or people from the administratum.
However, I know an Inquisitor can declare a Chapter as Excomunicate Traitoris and have it wiped out, as it happened to the Fire Claws for instance. That is a deeply established part of the fluff. So, think twice about pissing an Inquisitor, especially if you have a few skeletons in your closet. And we know you do, if you are a marine!

 Ashiraya wrote:
It does make sense- with the Emperor incapable of giving commands and the Primarchs all lost in one way or another, there is no one left with sufficient authority.

Do you mean, except for the High Lords of Terra?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 TheCustomLime wrote:
My personal hypothessis as to the disparity in weight between Guard/SoB issue bolters and Space Marine issue bolters isnt necessarily due to a larger round as it due to their construction

Where did you even get the idea that there are disparity in weight? I do not remember reading about any disparity ever. Guards do not issue bolter to infantry as far as I know, and Sisters have power armor, that can lift the bolter for them.

It's mentioned in the Guard codex that Boltguns are an uncommon sight but some NCOs/Officers get them. As for the weight disparity it's just as assumption on my part since Astartes bolters are described as being too heavy for normal guys to lift.

It's like ogryn guns, they are made bigger so the SMs can use them .

That's exactly why I think they are heavier. That or Space Marine bolters are more akin to an intermediate weapon between regular Boltguns and Heavy Bolters and that they aren't stated as such due to the limitations of a D6 system.

No, they are the same caliber, probably better quality however.

 TheCustomLime wrote:
It's mentioned in the Guard codex that Boltguns are an uncommon sight but some NCOs/Officers get them.

Well, maybe those are the light version, rather than the other way around. Like a cross between a bolter and a bolt pistol. Or those officiers have bionics. Or those bolters are especially crafted with better, lighter materials since they are designed for officers.
What does NCO means, by the way?

Non Commissioned Officer, sergeants and the likes.

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
No, they are the same caliber, probably better quality however.

You sure?

My personal interpretation of 40K's setting?

A turd covered in chains and skulls.

 Ashiraya wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
No, they are the same caliber, probably better quality however.

You sure?

Depends on the officer. Lord General Whatsit probably has a nicer Boltgun than your average Tac marine but I don't think your typical Sergeant would get anything better than the Imperium's finest unless he looted it. It's probably made out of lighter materials but that makes it more fragile than better quality.

An Inquisitor can not command a Space Marine chapter, against its will. No one in the Galaxy besides maybe the HLoT can.

Space Marines exist in a weird grey area of Imperial authority. They're like the bummy son of a mob boss. Yeah, the mob boss' goons technically don't answer to the dope fiend, spoiled son. Buuuut he's still the mob boss' boy, so they give him a wide berth and generally do what he asks.

An Inquisitor can't walk up to a Chapter Master and say "you will attack this planet", or whatever. He can suggest it, or make an appeal, but if the CM tells him to feth off he will.

That doesn't mean that the Inquisitor won't report it back to his superiors and henceforth consider the Chapter with suspicion, but he's not going to force the issue with the Chapter Master.

Most Inquisitors wouldn't even want to, as getting in good with a Chapter is one of the greatest perks in the Galaxy.

One may want to add that the case with the Celestial Lions was literally one of a kind.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 TheCustomLime wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
No, they are the same caliber, probably better quality however.

You sure?

Depends on the officer. Lord General Whatsit probably has a nicer Boltgun than your average Tac marine but I don't think your typical Sergeant would get anything better than the Imperium's finest unless he looted it. It's probably made out of lighter materials but that makes it more fragile than better quality.

I was talking about the quality. If you are going to bother spending tons of resources to buff up a man to superhuman levels, train him for years, and give him a suit of super-armour, then not giving him a weapon with more punch seems to be a waste... Especially since I imagine 'being able to carry and shoot a bigger gun' to be a significant reason for making them so crazy strong to begin with.

Well, they do have a weapon with better punch: The Boltgun. It's better than the oh-so prolific Lasgun by leagues and miles and thanks to their super-strength they can fire the thing without having to brace themselves like Imperial Guardsman do. The Imperial Guard has more Bolters in their collective armory than the Astartes does but they can never match the skill the Space Marines have with the weapon.

 Ashiraya wrote:
One may want to add that the case with the Celestial Lions was literally one of a kind.

Why do you think so? Anyhow, chapters being declared Excomunicate Traitoris is certainly not a one of a kind event. And Chapter Masters still have rules they have to follow.

 Ashiraya wrote:
I was talking about the quality. If you are going to bother spending tons of resources to buff up a man to superhuman levels, train him for years, and give him a suit of super-armour, then not giving him a weapon with more punch seems to be a waste...

Except that not only is a high-ranking officer much more important in deciding the fate of the Imperium than random space marine John Doe, but also resource allocation is not based on pure efficiency logic like that. People in power will get to choose the best stuff, even if they do not need it more. Just because they can .

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

Why do you think so? Anyhow, chapters being declared Excomunicate Traitoris is certainly not a one of a kind event. And Chapter Masters still have rules they have to follow.

Because no other example of Chapters being 'punished' for defying the Inquisition is shown- aside from extreme cases like the Space Wolves, but that was not merely the Space Wolves not feeling like obeying an Inquisitorial order.

Except that not only is a high-ranking officer much more important in deciding the fate of the Imperium than random space marine John Doe, but also resource allocation is not based on pure efficiency logic like that. People in power will get to choose the best stuff, even if they do not need it more. Just because they can .

Not only high-ranking Guard officers walk around with boltguns.

 TheCustomLime wrote:
Well, they do have a weapon with better punch: The Boltgun. It's better than the oh-so prolific Lasgun by leagues and miles and thanks to their super-strength they can fire the thing without having to brace themselves like Imperial Guardsman do. The Imperial Guard has more Bolters in their collective armory than the Astartes does but they can never match the skill the Space Marines have with the weapon.

Still, if you have a super-stronk guy capable of using a better weapon, why bother giving him a weapon anyone can use? Give him a weapon that makes use of his capabilities instead!

So, Storm Bolters and Lascannons then.

Bolters are .5" and heavy bolters are 1" (I think that means .5 and 1 caliber right?). This is FFG fluff, but it's all the same.

"why bother giving him a weapon anyone can use? "
This is the Impirum were talking about, don't expect sense .

 TheCustomLime wrote:
So, Storm Bolters and Lascannons then.

If every SM walked around with a storm bolter it'd make an awful lot of sense.

I don't get why not. They can easily handle the recoil of two bolters if a normal human can handle one, they pour out a lot of fire which fits their shock trooper MO and they aren't terribly difficult to make. Maybe some marines would prefer the precision of a regular boltgun but it's not like their role is to engage opponents as extreme distances. That's the duty of the scouts.

At least have it be an option in the next Codex.

Does anything have the option to upgrade a bolter to a storm bolter? Could be a baseling of what you are asking for.

Although let me repeat myself,
This is the Impirum were talking about, don't expect sense.

The Space Marine commanders are not fools, though, not when it comes to equipping their soldiers.

 Ashiraya wrote:
Because no other example of Chapters being 'punished' for defying the Inquisition is shown- aside from extreme cases like the Space Wolves, but that was not merely the Space Wolves not feeling like obeying an Inquisitorial order.

For not obeying the Inquisition, maybe. But there are tons of example of Chapter being purged because an Inquisitor said “Let us purge those guys, they are impure/traitors”.
And if an Inquisitor has the power to do so, is pretty susceptible, and is refused by some chapter…

 Ashiraya wrote:
Not only high-ranking Guard officers walk around with boltguns.

Who else?

 Ashiraya wrote:
Still, if you have a super-stronk guy capable of using a better weapon, why bother giving him a weapon anyone can use? Give him a weapon that makes use of his capabilities instead!

Yeah, let us have space marines squads will every one in it using a special weapon or a heavy weapon. After all, why not?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ashiraya wrote:
The Space Marine commanders are not fools, though, not when it comes to equipping their soldiers.

They are. Because chainsword. This is 40k.

 Ashiraya wrote:
The Space Marine commanders are not fools, though, not when it comes to equipping their soldiers.

But the Imperium at large is. Hence why Bolters and not Stormbolters,

Even if they can't use them right, Commanders in the IG and PDF will take a bolter if they can, because it's a bolter. Why wouldn't they take it? It's there to be taken. They're not about to say no because a Space Marine can make better use of it.

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
Bolters are .5" and heavy bolters are 1" (I think that means .5 and 1 caliber right?). This is FFG fluff, but it's all the same.

"why bother giving him a weapon anyone can use? "
This is the Impirum were talking about, don't expect sense .

Wat.

Astartes bolters are .75 while heavy bolters are 1.00 Caliber. I haven't heard of .50 caliber bolts, but I presume those would be what are loaded in the bolt pistols made for mortal humans like Commissars.

Also, no competent commander would give his troops storm bolters- they're terrible compared to standard bolters and jam all the damn time. Combi-bolters would be the better guns for standard firearms, providing tactical flexibility and superior firepower while retaining all the positive traits of a standard bolter. Then there's always good 'ol volkite guns. Plus better accuracy, as bolters are accurate upwards to two and a half kilometers.

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
Bolters are .5" and heavy bolters are 1" (I think that means .5 and 1 caliber right?). This is FFG fluff, but it's all the same.

"why bother giving him a weapon anyone can use? "
This is the Impirum were talking about, don't expect sense .

Wat.

Astartes bolters are .75 while heavy bolters are 1.00 Caliber. I haven't heard of .50 caliber bolts, but I presume those would be what are loaded in the bolt pistols made for mortal humans like Commissars.

Also, no competent commander would give his troops storm bolters- they're terrible compared to standard bolters and jam all the damn time. Combi-bolters would be the better guns for standard firearms, providing tactical flexibility and superior firepower while retaining all the positive traits of a standard bolter. Then there's always good 'ol volkite guns. Plus better accuracy, as bolters are accurate upwards to two and a half kilometers.

Probably just not remembering correctly, I'll check.

Also, I've had this argument before, bolters are not able to shoot that far in 'reality' because it goes against the laws of physics. Unless you are on a planet much smaller than earth, with optimum condition (and probably on top of a building). Assuming a bolter is fired from a height of 2 meters from an earth sized planet, it would take 0.63855...s to hit the ground The bolt would have to be traveling at a speed of 3915 m/s. That's more than ten times the speed of sound (340m/s). That is classified as high-hypersonic. That fastest bullet in the world has only reached speeds of up to 4000m/s. That fancy navy rail weapon has only gotten up to 8000m/s. Even if the shot occurred at the top of a 50 foot building, that would still have to be 783m/s, twice the speed of sound. Even if it was, the energy required to accelerate the bolt that fast would be ridiculous, as bolts are quite large, not to mention air resistance, as bolts are not very air resistant.

 Co'tor Shas wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
Bolters are .5" and heavy bolters are 1" (I think that means .5 and 1 caliber right?). This is FFG fluff, but it's all the same.

"why bother giving him a weapon anyone can use? "
This is the Impirum were talking about, don't expect sense .

Wat.

Astartes bolters are .75 while heavy bolters are 1.00 Caliber. I haven't heard of .50 caliber bolts, but I presume those would be what are loaded in the bolt pistols made for mortal humans like Commissars.

Also, no competent commander would give his troops storm bolters- they're terrible compared to standard bolters and jam all the damn time. Combi-bolters would be the better guns for standard firearms, providing tactical flexibility and superior firepower while retaining all the positive traits of a standard bolter. Then there's always good 'ol volkite guns. Plus better accuracy, as bolters are accurate upwards to two and a half kilometers.

Probably just not remembering correctly, I'll check.

Also, I've had this argument before, bolters are not able to shoot that far in 'reality' because it goes againt the laws of physics. Unless you are on a planet much smaller than earth, with optimum condition (and probebly on top of a building). Assuming a bolter is fired from a height of 2 meters from an earthn sized planet, it would take 0.63855...s to hit the ground The bolt would have to be traveling at a speed of 3915 m/s. That's more than ten times the speed of sound (340m/s). That is calssified as high-hypersonic. That fastest bullet in the world has only reached speeds of up to 4000m/s. That fancy navy rail weapon has only gotten up to 8000m/s. Even if the shot occurred at the top of a 50 foot building, that would still have to be 783m/s, twice the speed of sound. Even if it was, the energy required to accelerate the bolt that fast would be ridiculous, as bolts are quite large, not to mention air resistance, as bolts are not very air resistant.

Feats are feats, it doesn't matter if it doesn't make sense, it still happened.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ashiraya wrote:
There is no true 'official' canon in 40K, as Lynata kindly pointed out.

With this in mind, in a setting with tons of contradictory sources where we are allowed, even encouraged, to cherrypick, what is your own personal interpretation of 40K's setting?

Here are some things that I commonly see debating over:

How powerful are the troops of each faction really?

In quick ranking for basic troops and their strength?

1) Grey Knights

2) Lesser Daemons

3) Tactical Space Marines, Chaos Space Marines

3.5) Necron Warriors

4) Eldar Dire Avengers, Dark Eldar Kabalites, Sisters of Battle

5) Tau Firewarriors

6) Tyranid Genestealers

7) Ork Boyz

7.5) Imperial Guardsmen

8) Tyranid Gaunts

I'll go into more detail later.

How bad is the Imperium's current situation?

fethed, fethed fethed, fethed, fethed. On all accounts. Chaos could destroy them whenever the hell they wished, Orks would drown them in bodies and leave them crippled (I doubt Orks would wipe them out completely, but rather maim them and leave a hapless, limbless body for the vultures.) if they ever rally to the needed numbers, the Tyranids also drown them in numbers and threaten the industry of the Imperium, Necrons can bolostomp them if wished, and the Dark Eldar could do serious damage if they were bothered to. The only lower guy on the totem pole is the Tau. The Imperium had better start looking into options of allying with the Eldar, and fast.

How old can Marines become? Can the traitor Legionnaires really be 10K years old?

Functionally infinite by several examples, key word is "functional". They'll all eventually die unless they become metahax like some loyalists or ascend to godhood as a Daemon Prince under Chaos.

What about the Void Dragon?

On Mars (obviously), but like all C'tan, shattered.

How large are Titans? How large are spaceships?

Imperial, Eldar, and Ork titans range between a hundred meters to multiple kilometers. Starships are as stated, with them capping at around twenty kilometers for the Imperium, although IIRC there are some far, faaar larger ones. Space Stations/Mobile Monasteries are the size of planetoids, as also state. Tau built small space ships and have started to produce continent-sized space stations, and Eldar Craftworlds are continent-planetoid sized. Space Hulks range in size, but could certainly get upwards of the size of a large planetoid from some examples.

How effective at corrupting is Chaos actually?

Almost instant with unwarded technology and weak minds, as has been shown with Scrapcode and Doubt Worm. Depends largely on the will of the individual and the power of the daemon.

How large are the Hive Fleets?

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
Bolters are .5" and heavy bolters are 1" (I think that means .5 and 1 caliber right?). This is FFG fluff, but it's all the same.

"why bother giving him a weapon anyone can use? "
This is the Impirum were talking about, don't expect sense .

Wat.

Astartes bolters are .75 while heavy bolters are 1.00 Caliber. I haven't heard of .50 caliber bolts, but I presume those would be what are loaded in the bolt pistols made for mortal humans like Commissars.

Also, no competent commander would give his troops storm bolters- they're terrible compared to standard bolters and jam all the damn time. Combi-bolters would be the better guns for standard firearms, providing tactical flexibility and superior firepower while retaining all the positive traits of a standard bolter. Then there's always good 'ol volkite guns. Plus better accuracy, as bolters are accurate upwards to two and a half kilometers.

Probably just not remembering correctly, I'll check.

Also, I've had this argument before, bolters are not able to shoot that far in 'reality' because it goes againt the laws of physics. Unless you are on a planet much smaller than earth, with optimum condition (and probebly on top of a building). Assuming a bolter is fired from a height of 2 meters from an earthn sized planet, it would take 0.63855...s to hit the ground The bolt would have to be traveling at a speed of 3915 m/s. That's more than ten times the speed of sound (340m/s). That is calssified as high-hypersonic. That fastest bullet in the world has only reached speeds of up to 4000m/s. That fancy navy rail weapon has only gotten up to 8000m/s. Even if the shot occurred at the top of a 50 foot building, that would still have to be 783m/s, twice the speed of sound. Even if it was, the energy required to accelerate the bolt that fast would be ridiculous, as bolts are quite large, not to mention air resistance, as bolts are not very air resistant.

Feats are feats, it doesn't matter if it doesn't make sense, it still happened.

How did this 'feat' happen anyway? It's pretty iffy, if you ask me. I'm sure space marines are involved (and probably psykers as well).

 Co'tor Shas wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
Bolters are .5" and heavy bolters are 1" (I think that means .5 and 1 caliber right?). This is FFG fluff, but it's all the same.

"why bother giving him a weapon anyone can use? "
This is the Impirum were talking about, don't expect sense .

Wat.

Astartes bolters are .75 while heavy bolters are 1.00 Caliber. I haven't heard of .50 caliber bolts, but I presume those would be what are loaded in the bolt pistols made for mortal humans like Commissars.

Also, no competent commander would give his troops storm bolters- they're terrible compared to standard bolters and jam all the damn time. Combi-bolters would be the better guns for standard firearms, providing tactical flexibility and superior firepower while retaining all the positive traits of a standard bolter. Then there's always good 'ol volkite guns. Plus better accuracy, as bolters are accurate upwards to two and a half kilometers.

Probably just not remembering correctly, I'll check.

Also, I've had this argument before, bolters are not able to shoot that far in 'reality' because it goes againt the laws of physics. Unless you are on a planet much smaller than earth, with optimum condition (and probebly on top of a building). Assuming a bolter is fired from a height of 2 meters from an earthn sized planet, it would take 0.63855...s to hit the ground The bolt would have to be traveling at a speed of 3915 m/s. That's more than ten times the speed of sound (340m/s). That is calssified as high-hypersonic. That fastest bullet in the world has only reached speeds of up to 4000m/s. That fancy navy rail weapon has only gotten up to 8000m/s. Even if the shot occurred at the top of a 50 foot building, that would still have to be 783m/s, twice the speed of sound. Even if it was, the energy required to accelerate the bolt that fast would be ridiculous, as bolts are quite large, not to mention air resistance, as bolts are not very air resistant.

Feats are feats, it doesn't matter if it doesn't make sense, it still happened.

How did this 'feat' happen anyway? It's pretty iffy, if you ask me. I'm sure space marines are involved (and probably psykers as well).

A Chaos Champion/Aspiring Champion was explicitly stated to take a shot at greater than two kilometers to knock out a sniper that was behind some glorified forklift/truck like vehicle. He aimed and bounced the shot off the ground so it deflected under the vehicle and bounced into the stomach of the sniper behind it. She died instantly, her "lover" then lost it and ran out of the building at the Iron Warrior and died.

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
Bolters are .5" and heavy bolters are 1" (I think that means .5 and 1 caliber right?). This is FFG fluff, but it's all the same.

"why bother giving him a weapon anyone can use? "
This is the Impirum were talking about, don't expect sense .

Wat.

Astartes bolters are .75 while heavy bolters are 1.00 Caliber. I haven't heard of .50 caliber bolts, but I presume those would be what are loaded in the bolt pistols made for mortal humans like Commissars.

Also, no competent commander would give his troops storm bolters- they're terrible compared to standard bolters and jam all the damn time. Combi-bolters would be the better guns for standard firearms, providing tactical flexibility and superior firepower while retaining all the positive traits of a standard bolter. Then there's always good 'ol volkite guns. Plus better accuracy, as bolters are accurate upwards to two and a half kilometers.

Probably just not remembering correctly, I'll check.

Also, I've had this argument before, bolters are not able to shoot that far in 'reality' because it goes againt the laws of physics. Unless you are on a planet much smaller than earth, with optimum condition (and probebly on top of a building). Assuming a bolter is fired from a height of 2 meters from an earthn sized planet, it would take 0.63855...s to hit the ground The bolt would have to be traveling at a speed of 3915 m/s. That's more than ten times the speed of sound (340m/s). That is calssified as high-hypersonic. That fastest bullet in the world has only reached speeds of up to 4000m/s. That fancy navy rail weapon has only gotten up to 8000m/s. Even if the shot occurred at the top of a 50 foot building, that would still have to be 783m/s, twice the speed of sound. Even if it was, the energy required to accelerate the bolt that fast would be ridiculous, as bolts are quite large, not to mention air resistance, as bolts are not very air resistant.

Feats are feats, it doesn't matter if it doesn't make sense, it still happened.

How did this 'feat' happen anyway? It's pretty iffy, if you ask me. I'm sure space marines are involved (and probably psykers as well).

A Chaos Champion/Aspiring Champion was explicitly stated to take a shot at greater than two kilometers to knock out a sniper that was behind some glorified forklift/truck like vehicle. He aimed and bounced the shot off the ground so it deflected under the vehicle and bounced into the stomach of the sniper behind it. She died instantly, her "lover" then lost it and ran out of the building at the Iron Warrior and died.

That's....

What.

Some times I just get depressed at GW/BL writers. The amount of force to do that would be ridiculous, and the chance for the bolt to not just bury itself into the ground. I might make a example scenario later, probably tomorrow if I get around to it.

Any other info, size of planet relative to earth, height differences, was a scope used, ect.? At this point, I think I'm ready to put this is the "PH-ridden, plot-armoured, outlier" pile. In any statistical analysis, this would defiantly be an outlier, compared to the other info we have..

 Co'tor Shas wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
Bolters are .5" and heavy bolters are 1" (I think that means .5 and 1 caliber right?). This is FFG fluff, but it's all the same.

"why bother giving him a weapon anyone can use? "
This is the Impirum were talking about, don't expect sense .

Wat.

Astartes bolters are .75 while heavy bolters are 1.00 Caliber. I haven't heard of .50 caliber bolts, but I presume those would be what are loaded in the bolt pistols made for mortal humans like Commissars.

Also, no competent commander would give his troops storm bolters- they're terrible compared to standard bolters and jam all the damn time. Combi-bolters would be the better guns for standard firearms, providing tactical flexibility and superior firepower while retaining all the positive traits of a standard bolter. Then there's always good 'ol volkite guns. Plus better accuracy, as bolters are accurate upwards to two and a half kilometers.

Probably just not remembering correctly, I'll check.

Also, I've had this argument before, bolters are not able to shoot that far in 'reality' because it goes againt the laws of physics. Unless you are on a planet much smaller than earth, with optimum condition (and probebly on top of a building). Assuming a bolter is fired from a height of 2 meters from an earthn sized planet, it would take 0.63855...s to hit the ground The bolt would have to be traveling at a speed of 3915 m/s. That's more than ten times the speed of sound (340m/s). That is calssified as high-hypersonic. That fastest bullet in the world has only reached speeds of up to 4000m/s. That fancy navy rail weapon has only gotten up to 8000m/s. Even if the shot occurred at the top of a 50 foot building, that would still have to be 783m/s, twice the speed of sound. Even if it was, the energy required to accelerate the bolt that fast would be ridiculous, as bolts are quite large, not to mention air resistance, as bolts are not very air resistant.

Feats are feats, it doesn't matter if it doesn't make sense, it still happened.

How did this 'feat' happen anyway? It's pretty iffy, if you ask me. I'm sure space marines are involved (and probably psykers as well).

A Chaos Champion/Aspiring Champion was explicitly stated to take a shot at greater than two kilometers to knock out a sniper that was behind some glorified forklift/truck like vehicle. He aimed and bounced the shot off the ground so it deflected under the vehicle and bounced into the stomach of the sniper behind it. She died instantly, her "lover" then lost it and ran out of the building at the Iron Warrior and died.

That's....

What.

Some times I just get depressed at GW/BL writers. The amount of force to do that would be ridiculous, and the chance for the bolt to not just bury itself into the ground. I might make a example scenario later, probably tomorrow if I get around to it.

Any other info, size of planet relative to earth, height differences, was a scope used, ect.? At this point, I think I'm ready to put this is the "PH-ridden, plot-armoured, outlier" pile. In any statistical analysis, this would defiantly be an outlier, compared to the other info we have..

To my knowledge it was a normal grav world, I was largely focused on the "oh gak" factor as the Iron Warriors got obliterated by the Ork WHAAAGH!.