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 Kirasu wrote:

 PuddlePirate wrote:
So I take it that this dude makes Sigmar look like a bitch?

Considering Sigmar killed him.. probably not? Due to steadfast characters are a joke vs units.

He has been destroyed on several occasions (Skaven and Sigmar respectively) but claws his way back - much weakened and takes a few centuries to recover strength enough to really do anything.

Don't undead characters crumble if beaten in combat?

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Kirasu wrote:

 PuddlePirate wrote:
So I take it that this dude makes Sigmar look like a bitch?

Considering Sigmar killed him.. probably not? Due to steadfast characters are a joke vs units.

He has been destroyed on several occasions (Skaven and Sigmar respectively) but claws his way back - much weakened and takes a few centuries to recover strength enough to really do anything.

Don't undead characters crumble if beaten in combat?

I'm sure Nagash ignores that rule.

WayneTheGame wrote:
I'm sure Nagash ignores that rule.

Looks like he doesn't, but he does have a rule that mitigates it.

Rules just got posted on 4chan and reposted on the warseer forums!

Pretty beastly dude. Kicks Teclis' ass in spellcasting, so much for that fluff lol....

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?398133-WHF-in-the-near-future/page58

Dunno if 1000 points is worth it, but he's got pretty fething good spellcasting rules all the same, with a 4+/4+ save and 7s and 6s across the board for stats.


Edit: Damn it, way too slow on this draw lol, beaten to it ages ago. Oh well.

 thenoobbomb wrote:
A Level 5 wizard?

They should make Teclis a L5 wizard too.

 Daba wrote:

 thenoobbomb wrote:
A Level 5 wizard?

They should make Teclis a L5 wizard too.

I doubt Teclis is on-par with Nagash.

You know, the guy that said "poop", after which entire cities of the dead came back to life.

 thenoobbomb wrote:

 Daba wrote:

 thenoobbomb wrote:
A Level 5 wizard?

They should make Teclis a L5 wizard too.

I doubt Teclis is on-par with Nagash.

You know, the guy that said "poop", after which entire cities of the dead came back to life.

Teclis has always been regarded as on par with Nagash.

 Daba wrote:

 thenoobbomb wrote:

 Daba wrote:

 thenoobbomb wrote:
A Level 5 wizard?

They should make Teclis a L5 wizard too.

I doubt Teclis is on-par with Nagash.

You know, the guy that said "poop", after which entire cities of the dead came back to life.

Teclis has always been regarded as on par with Nagash.

Not really?

Teclis has been regarded as the greatest "non-Slann" magic user of the current era--but it is always referred to in such a way that it makes it seem as though nobody knows Nagash is back.

I've always considered Nagash to be more powerful then Teclis. Simply by feats alone, Nagash destroyed the largest human empire to of ever existed and then raised *The Entire Population* as undead slaves. I know Teclis has banished entire Daemonic Legions, but that's not quite on the same scale.

By all means, Teclis could be more skilled and more knowledgeable (except in Necromancy, no one beats Nagash at his own game) but due to Nagash's use of Warp Stone, he is throwing around a lot more power then Teclis.

Not to mention new Mega Hulk Nagash would stomp Teclis's puny ass into the ground before he could even call for his big brother to save him!

I really like the new Nagash model - and not just because the 'original' one was so, so bad.

This one is quite nice!

Though I'm a bit concerned over how much he'll cost, of course!

Lvl 5 just like his Chosen General Arkhan(Granted he gets his from an item)

But he's missing Neherkan Undead rule, so he can't benefit from a hierotitan :(

Depending on how good, lore of undeath is, I'd wait to decide what's better.

WayneTheGame wrote:
I don't get how he can take on an army though, well I guess if you summoned a lot of guys.

Well, he is the only level 5 wizard in the game, and he TRIPLE the number of stuff he summons. He could definitely raise a small army every turn.

WayneTheGame wrote:
He's only S7, T7 and W7 so that doesn't seem like a lot - granted I last played WHFB in 5th edition so it was the age of Herohammer, but couldn't a nice unit of cavalry charge him and paste him?

I guess cavalry on the charge will likely hit him on 4+, wound him on 5+, he then have a 4+ ward. I think he would be more afraid of cannon. Are they still S10, remove d6 HP?

 Daba wrote:

 thenoobbomb wrote:
A Level 5 wizard?

They should make Teclis a L5 wizard too.

Yeah, and then Kroak and Mazdamundi and Slanns in general (those are still supposed to be the greatest masters of magic in the whole WaFaBa universe, are they?), and then everyone including goblin shaman…
No arm race please. Just Nagash.

The 4+ ward save is pretty good against cannon.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
(...)the whole WaFaBa universe(...).

Stahp, it hurts so much...

 Daba wrote:

 thenoobbomb wrote:

 Daba wrote:

 thenoobbomb wrote:
A Level 5 wizard?

They should make Teclis a L5 wizard too.

I doubt Teclis is on-par with Nagash.

You know, the guy that said "poop", after which entire cities of the dead came back to life.

Teclis has always been regarded as on par with Nagash.

By whom? Himself?

 Avrik_Shasla wrote:
The 4+ ward save is pretty good against cannon.

It only works half of the time. How many cannons can you buy for 1000 points ?

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Avrik_Shasla wrote:
The 4+ ward save is pretty good against cannon.

It only works half of the time. How many cannons can you buy for 1000 points ?

Not as many as you seem to think. Plus remember that if you load up too heavily to kill Nagash, what are you going to do about his summoned things?

You really shouldn't use in-game rules AND also use fluff at the same time for determining who is "best".. Fluff? Yeah slann and nagash are more powerful than Teclis but that's backstory.

Probably not worth the points as he doesn't have access to shadow (death is a decent second choice tho) and has some very specific bonuses to Undeath.. which is alright. He lacks true miscast protection (rerolling the table is much much worse than ignoring the miscast) which is a huge detriment and why Undead often so many games cause their general is so important. I think he's quite the "beater" of a character but the EXACT 1000 pt cost seems lazy on GW's part.

Being a monster is a detriment too as he's easier to shoot. I mean summoning lots of undead is cool and all.. I just don't see him surviving very long vs Skaven, empire, dwarves or any army that has the multiple wound rule.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Avrik_Shasla wrote:
The 4+ ward save is pretty good against cannon.

It only works half of the time. How many cannons can you buy for 1000 points ?

Well, I can get three cannons...That's as much as I'm allowed to take. Haha.

Well, rerolling every miscast result you don't like that's pretty solid. I'd keep every one but the two at the very ends of the range.

You don't have to worry about losing your last dice on the miscast as you can store dice at any time during the magic phase. I've always taken an earthing ron on my Hierophant and it's saved my game many of times.

Cannons are the issue, but he has access to light. Can he declare his rolls at the start of the each game based on the special rule like KArios can or must he on list creation? Good discussion to have. As Pha's and Net are great vs cannons.

The being a monster is bad, but Lore of Vampires can heal him, He doesn't have Nehek undead rule, which is a detriment to him, can't use the lore attribute to heal him, nor move twice. MI would have been better IMO.

Nagash looks awesome.
Really liking this release so far.

Looks like I'm going to need to start painting skeletons....loooooots of skeletons. It'll be interesting to see what all he can summon. I wonder if they'll keep it more VC specific or if you'll be able to summon TK stuff too. Though I'm getting ahead of myself. I need to wait and see if he can summon things besides just skellies.

 DiabolicAl wrote:
I seem to be the only one that really doesn't care for this in the slightest. It looks like they have tried to make an Undead Treeman. In fact i would go as far as to describe it as smegging awful. Maybe better pics will help but i am not holding my breath.

Yea, I don't understand why people think this model is anything other than a POS. It is a horrible composition. I think people are just excited about it being Nagash...and not as horrible as the old model.

weeble1000 wrote:

 DiabolicAl wrote:
I seem to be the only one that really doesn't care for this in the slightest. It looks like they have tried to make an Undead Treeman. In fact i would go as far as to describe it as smegging awful. Maybe better pics will help but i am not holding my breath.

Yea, I don't understand why people think this model is anything other than a POS. It is a horrible composition. I think people are just excited about it being Nagash...and not a horrible as the old model.

Isn't it amazing! People can have different opinions...

ImAGeek wrote:

weeble1000 wrote:

 DiabolicAl wrote:
I seem to be the only one that really doesn't care for this in the slightest. It looks like they have tried to make an Undead Treeman. In fact i would go as far as to describe it as smegging awful. Maybe better pics will help but i am not holding my breath.

Yea, I don't understand why people think this model is anything other than a POS. It is a horrible composition. I think people are just excited about it being Nagash...and not a horrible as the old model.

Isn't it amazing! People can have different opinions...

Note that I did not say that people cannot have different opinions. I said that I don't understand why people have an opinion other than mine. My deficiency in understanding is my problem, not somebody else's problem. If people enjoy the model, more power to them. But as far as I am concerned it does not look like a well-designed model to me, and I am frankly surprised that other people like it so much.

My purely subjective interpretation is that the positive reaction has been in no small way influenced by excitement about the model representing Nagash. If it was some new model for a generic Vampire Counts monster kit with a $150.00 price tag, I honestly think many more people would less enthusiastic about the way the model looks.

Big model + clown hat + covered in bonez + boring pose + tiny, tiny head =/= amazing and awesome.

Reverse the head problem and it's basically got the same faults as the old one. Maybe not as extreme, but still there.

Graphite wrote:In fairness, just about anything would have been a large step up from the original Nagash.

weeble1000 wrote:It is a horrible composition. I think people are just excited about it being Nagash...and not a horrible as the old model.

Yup.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

weeble1000 wrote:
But as far as I am concerned it does not look like a well-designed model to me, and I am frankly surprised that other people like it so much.

My purely subjective interpretation is that the positive reaction has been in no small way influenced by excitement about the model representing Nagash. If it was some new model for a generic Vampire Counts monster kit with a $150.00 price tag, I honestly think many more people would less enthusiastic about the way the model looks.

Yup yup.

weeble1000 wrote:

My purely subjective interpretation is that the positive reaction has been in no small way influenced by excitement about the model representing Nagash. If it was some new model for a generic Vampire Counts monster kit with a $150.00 price tag, I honestly think many more people would less enthusiastic about the way the model looks.

If it was "some new model for a generic Vampire Counts monster kit with a $150.00 price tag", I would still be excited.
Because that would be a honking huge new Undead thing for my Vampire Counts...
Would I necessarily be buying said model? Maybe. Maybe not. It would entirely depend upon the model.

But yes most of my excitement is because it is Nagash. And that he is a L5 Wizard with an eclectic mix of spells--and seemingly tied in to a campaign book.

weeble1000 wrote:

ImAGeek wrote:

weeble1000 wrote:

 DiabolicAl wrote:
I seem to be the only one that really doesn't care for this in the slightest. It looks like they have tried to make an Undead Treeman. In fact i would go as far as to describe it as smegging awful. Maybe better pics will help but i am not holding my breath.

Yea, I don't understand why people think this model is anything other than a POS. It is a horrible composition. I think people are just excited about it being Nagash...and not a horrible as the old model.

Isn't it amazing! People can have different opinions...

Note that I did not say that people cannot have different opinions. I said that I don't understand why people have an opinion other than mine. My deficiency in understanding is my problem, not somebody else's problem. If people enjoy the model, more power to them. But as far as I am concerned it does not look like a well-designed model to me, and I am frankly surprised that other people like it so much.

My purely subjective interpretation is that the positive reaction has been in no small way influenced by excitement about the model representing Nagash. If it was some new model for a generic Vampire Counts monster kit with a $150.00 price tag, I honestly think many more people would less enthusiastic about the way the model looks.

You're right, I apologise. I was overly snarky.

Oh man its Mummrah!

I hope they do Sigmar as Liono next!

 Kanluwen wrote:

If it was "some new model for a generic Vampire Counts monster kit with a $150.00 price tag", I would still be excited.
Because that would be a honking huge new Undead thing for my Vampire Counts...
Would I necessarily be buying said model? Maybe. Maybe not. It would entirely depend upon the model.

I'll buy one of these and sell it on to you for $150. Excited?