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Asterios wrote:
which are not Electrical charges, go read up on what HAARP does to the Ionosphere which produces an electrical field in the Ionosphere.

Can you provide a canon source for this disrupting void shields?

Also, HAARP is a scientific experiment with little or no capability as a weapon. Tinfoil hat theories about HAARP are not reality.

@ peregrine then how about the shuttle? lasts much longer then a sprint missile and moves much faster then the SM ship.

The shuttle also doesn't exist anymore, didn't carry any weapons when it did exist, had limited maneuverability under power, and didn't have sustained performance. Its entire delta-V capability was used up getting into orbit at all, while the 40k ship is capable of doing 2.5gs indefinitely. It can do whatever it wants in orbit before you shoot at it and still have its full engine power available to dodge an incoming threat.

or better yet go with any number of current missiles which go farther then a sprint missile and faster then 2.5 G's.

No such thing exists. No real-world missile has the delta-V to engage targets in orbit, a nuclear warhead to have even a prayer of damaging a 40k ship, and a homing system capable of following an evading target.

face it you know your wrong, you are fighting with outdated technology which even our own outdated technology is faster then.

No, you just don't have any idea what you're talking about. You're badly wrong, time after time, on the "I didn't even read the wikipedia article" level.

 Peregrine wrote:

Asterios wrote:
which are not Electrical charges, go read up on what HAARP does to the Ionosphere which produces an electrical field in the Ionosphere.

Can you provide a canon source for this disrupting void shields?

Also, HAARP is a scientific experiment with little or no capability as a weapon. Tinfoil hat theories about HAARP are not reality.

is there any GW source discussing atmospheres like the ionosphere ? doubt it since they don't think of those things, also whos talking weapons? I'm talking what HAARP even says they do.

also i'm out of here, you go with your SM fantasy i'll go with reality.

Lets also be a little realistic with regards to 40k spaceships, these are, at best, Napoleonic "Age of Sail" vessels given a scifi skin and made Xbox Heuge. They have impressed slave crews manually turning gun turrets and loading 200m long torpedoes by hand, none of which would be practical, effective, or functional on a real vessel. That's not even getting into how absurdly impractical the designs are, with weapons arrayed in very 2-dimensional arcs and zero ability to generate thrust from any direction from the rear (good luck stopping an IN Cruiser without turning 180* and burning backwards). They simply would not function outside of an author's say-so.

Asterios wrote:
is there any GW source discussing atmospheres like the ionosphere ?

It is indisputably canon that void shields work in an atmosphere (since void shields are commonly used on ground units). If you want to claim that there's something special about the ionosphere that shuts them down then the burden of proof is on you. Until you can come up with some canon evidence to support your theory there is no reason to believe that void shields will magically stop working at a specific altitude band.

I'm talking what HAARP even says they do.

Then you're talking about something that isn't relevant to this discussion.

i'll go with reality.

Like your gamma rays that are "just like explosion pressure waves"?


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 Vaktathi wrote:
They simply would not function outside of an author's say-so.

Much like virtually everything in science fiction. As ridiculous as it is sometimes to think about what should happen in a realistic setting in this kind of "who wins" scenario you have to assume that if the author says X works then X does in fact work.

 Peregrine wrote:


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 Vaktathi wrote:
They simply would not function outside of an author's say-so.

Much like virtually everything in science fiction. As ridiculous as it is sometimes to think about what should happen in a realistic setting in this kind of "who wins" scenario you have to assume that if the author says X works then X does in fact work.

Within said universe, I agree mostly. When compared to the real world however, reality has to take precedence or it automatically always loses due to "because I said so".

What a thread...

now if it was the 30k imperium that invaded then we would be rightly screwed even still I believe the 40k imperium invaded they would still

First they would probably send a force to offer demands and depending on how much they value earth would depend on who was actually sent, which leads to the next dilemma, earth isn't actually united under one banner sure there is the UN but that is just a farce which push comes shove can't achieve much since every country is out for its own benefit and doesn't like taking orders (just look at the Syria situation) If a massive space power showed up and offered demands there would be a a number of countries unsure of what to do, of course there would be countries like America which would refuse (probably shouting freedom whilst shoting up into the air) . Add into the effect if they used force, say they wiped Japan etc off the map the bigger powers would be still be firm in their resolve but smaller countries who lack the resources to combat the force will let doubt will creep in as they struggle to comprehend how to protect themselves. I'm all wars there are traitors and of the imperium showed up offering surrender or destruction there will boundd to be ones wanting to surrender or turn to save their lives

Another fun note to remember is that all of our planets places of state, certain military bases and large densely populated areas are known to the public and isn't so hard to access as well it would be child's play for any infiltrators to find exactly where best to strike hell you can even google it. A few capital cities destroyed with millions dead would have even more crippling effect on morale as terror as well as fear spreads through the population. Add into the mix some of the imperiums weapons which would rightly shock most people like Titans, Knights or even space marines and true despair would spread. The military manpower of the imperium is almost limitless look at the imperial guard they are a sledge hammer to crack a nut just look at the fluff the imperium would gladly throw away millions of lives to achieve their goals. The population would be viewed as having no value at all (the imperium has thousands of planets a few billion lives is of no concern they have killed many times that) and if it submits it will be cleansed of all taint until it is the ideal part of the imperium look at the fluff if the imperium wants something they will gladly expend millions of tier own to kill billions. If they can claim what they want at the cost of the populations lives they would gladly nuke all life on earth and plunder what they want

And of course that's not taking into account that it's very likely the Ecclesiarchy wouldn't just purge the whole planet with virus bombs for our Herectic beliefs with multiple religions as well a atheists who probably would be hated just as much

Asterios wrote:

 Vash108 wrote:
They could probably throw a virus bomb down to start to weaken the planet then just roll over what's left. Then Terraform.

If they want to convert the planet, they would probably send Guardsmen, A few companies of Marines and a few Assasin's to take out high level targets.

and what virus would they use? and would they have any clue if it would effect us? and would it?

Probably the Life-Eater Virus?

The Life-Eater Virus, as used on Isstvan III and Stalinvast, is terrifyingly voracious, capable of spreading across the entire surface of a planet in a matter of minutes. The virus can penetrate power armour and rebreathers. The virus quickly rots and breaks down anything of biological origin, reducing it to sludge. Jungles and forests quickly rot into lakes of sludge.
The rapid breakdown of organic matter releases tremendous amounts of flammable gas. The gas eventually ignites, either on its own or with the intentional insertion of an incendiary device, into an apocalyptic, planet-wide firestorm, searing the planet's entire surface to bare rock, as well as burning the atmosphere of all oxygen.

 Peregrine wrote:

Asterios wrote:
is there any GW source discussing atmospheres like the ionosphere ?

It is indisputably canon that void shields work in an atmosphere (since void shields are commonly used on ground units). If you want to claim that there's something special about the ionosphere that shuts them down then the burden of proof is on you. Until you can come up with some canon evidence to support your theory there is no reason to believe that void shields will magically stop working at a specific altitude band.

and I repeat where is your canon that void shields work in the Ionosphere? not talking lower atmosphere on the ground, but that electrically charged atmosphere known as the Ionosphere.

 Peregrine wrote:

I'm talking what HAARP even says they do.

Then you're talking about something that isn't relevant to this discussion.

uh huh, yeah an experiment that tests what happens when an electrical field is used in the Ionosphere has nothing to do with an electrical field (AKA: Void Shield)in the Ionosphere, what because truth proves you are a liar it has nothing to do with the discussion?

 Peregrine wrote:

i'll go with reality.

Like your gamma rays that are "just like explosion pressure waves"?

and yet a gamma-ray burst explosion is still an energetic explosion a very energetic which causes compression waves and such, and yet you claim it isn't, you know you seem to think you know it all and yet show nothing to back up your comments, where is your evidence? you claim to have it, or seem to think you have it, so where is it?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamma-ray_burst

Asterios wrote:
and I repeat where is your canon that void shields work in the Ionosphere? not talking lower atmosphere on the ground, but that electrically charged atmosphere known as the Ionosphere.

BFG rules, Fighting in Low Orbit. Planetary atmosphere at any level has no effect on spacecraft shields.

 AnomanderRake wrote:

Asterios wrote:
and I repeat where is your canon that void shields work in the Ionosphere? not talking lower atmosphere on the ground, but that electrically charged atmosphere known as the Ionosphere.

BFG rules, Fighting in Low Orbit. Planetary atmosphere at any level has no effect on spacecraft shields.

and these rules are where on the net? and the real world equivalent? since fantasy does not trump reality.

also lets inject a little more reality where Peregrine loudly vaunts how a BFG ship can do 2.5G's continuously and yet 2.5G's is not enough exertion to escape most planets Gravity wells (like Earths) which also is in the Ionosphere, (you know that stuff that keeps the Ions and Electrons there?) so further expounding on reality where said ships would be going, they would not survive, end of discussion.

Asterios wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:

Asterios wrote:
and I repeat where is your canon that void shields work in the Ionosphere? not talking lower atmosphere on the ground, but that electrically charged atmosphere known as the Ionosphere.

BFG rules, Fighting in Low Orbit. Planetary atmosphere at any level has no effect on spacecraft shields.

and these rules are where on the net? and the real world equivalent? since fantasy does not trump reality.

also lets inject a little more reality where Peregrine loudly vaunts how a BFG ship can do 2.5G's continuously and yet 2.5G's is not enough exertion to escape most planets Gravity wells (like Earths) which also is in the Ionosphere, (you know that stuff that keeps the Ions and Electrons there?) so further expounding on reality where said ships would be going, they would not survive, end of discussion.

Okay, so not only have you not provided any evidence that the ionosphere would affect void shields but now with lore evidence that it doesn't you deny it because you don't like it? Asterios, you can't just make stuff up with zero evidence and then claim that some facts are arbitrarily better than others when they suit you better.

Also, you have no idea what you are talking about when it comes to escape velocity.

Asterios wrote:


also lets inject a little more reality where Peregrine loudly vaunts how a BFG ship can do 2.5G's continuously and yet 2.5G's is not enough exertion to escape most planets Gravity wells (like Earths) which also is in the Ionosphere, (you know that stuff that keeps the Ions and Electrons there?) so further expounding on reality where said ships would be going, they would not survive, end of discussion.

To be fair, G is not a measure of speed, its a measure of acceleration. its not entirely unlikely that the 40k ships would be coming in with sufficient velocity to get into orbit, and travel fast enough forward to fall and never hit the planet/ie orbit.

An explosion in atmosphere primarily has 3 factors that are considered for its destructive power:
1. the pressure wave of rapidly expanding gases- this is the most deadly in conventional weapons, and even in nuclear in the short term as all things breaking falling happen mostly due to pressure. Pressure requires a medium to act. You have to push ON something, with nothing to push on, then only the vaporization of the thing exploding itself can generate its own medium, and that will dissipate to essentially nothing in a vacuum almost immediately
2. Heat, the excitation of molecules from low energy to high energy/vibration and movement. Heat can light things on fire, scorch singe, heat can damage, but it won't normally by itself level a building. heat can add to the first principal of pressure. Due to entropy energy goes from high energy to low, and can be communicated in several forms, conduction (touch) convection (ambient heating typically of air, ie a medium) and radiation (Ir light, other light bands like gamma and xray). Only radiation transmits without a medium as it travels via various states of photons, which are so tiny in mass, it takes a star to make enough to generate solar wind.
3. Radiation, usually just seen in a flash of light, much higher in the nuclear option. The problem is, compared to deep space travel and the amount of radiation from quasars and nova/supernova, or blue giants etc, a nuclear missile just doesn't really have that much to compare. Now the photons are not mass-less, but again, in the amount of matter we are turning into energy and photons, its not enough to push kilometers long gothic ships away.

personally, the salamanders would be the worst, they'd charm us by being all noble, and bring us under the emperors arms as if he was a loving father.

 TheCustomLime wrote:

Asterios wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:

Asterios wrote:
and I repeat where is your canon that void shields work in the Ionosphere? not talking lower atmosphere on the ground, but that electrically charged atmosphere known as the Ionosphere.

BFG rules, Fighting in Low Orbit. Planetary atmosphere at any level has no effect on spacecraft shields.

and these rules are where on the net? and the real world equivalent? since fantasy does not trump reality.

also lets inject a little more reality where Peregrine loudly vaunts how a BFG ship can do 2.5G's continuously and yet 2.5G's is not enough exertion to escape most planets Gravity wells (like Earths) which also is in the Ionosphere, (you know that stuff that keeps the Ions and Electrons there?) so further expounding on reality where said ships would be going, they would not survive, end of discussion.

Okay, so not only have you not provided any evidence that the ionosphere would affect void shields but now with lore evidence that it doesn't you deny it because you don't like it? Asterios, you can't just make stuff up with zero evidence and then claim that some facts are arbitrarily better than others when they suit you better.

Also, you have no idea what you are talking about when it comes to escape velocity.

really then prove me wrong in a real world equivalent, told you go check up on HAARP's Ionosphere testings and if BFG's using void shields in their planets atmospheres they must have a whole lot of dead worlds then. also you need to go back and learn about escape velocity.


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 pumaman1 wrote:

Asterios wrote:


also lets inject a little more reality where Peregrine loudly vaunts how a BFG ship can do 2.5G's continuously and yet 2.5G's is not enough exertion to escape most planets Gravity wells (like Earths) which also is in the Ionosphere, (you know that stuff that keeps the Ions and Electrons there?) so further expounding on reality where said ships would be going, they would not survive, end of discussion.

To be fair, G is not a measure of speed, its a measure of acceleration. its not entirely unlikely that the 40k ships would be coming in with sufficient velocity to get into orbit, and travel fast enough forward to fall and never hit the planet/ie orbit.

thats why I can't understand why he used G's as a measure of speed? as for acceleration is not very strong.

Asterios wrote:


thats why I can't understand why he used G's as a measure of speed? as for acceleration is not very strong.

Well doubling my apparent weight to 400 lbs is not something i am eager to leap to. And i think its the sustained portion that he's more impressed by. 2gs for 2 minutes, bearable, 2gs for 2 months, totally different question.

 pumaman1 wrote:

Asterios wrote:


thats why I can't understand why he used G's as a measure of speed? as for acceleration is not very strong.

Well doubling my apparent weight to 400 lbs is not something i am eager to leap to. And i think its the sustained portion that he's more impressed by. 2gs for 2 minutes, bearable, 2gs for 2 months, totally different question.

thing of it is, in space G's are not felt really, they are only felt where pressure is felt, like gravity wells and such. like when we sent rockets to the moon, our Astronauts felt the G's escaping Earth's gravity well but nothing after that even though their speed did not reduce really. I mean the Apollo missions reached speeds close to 40,000 KM per hour. in fact when I read his comment I kept thinking of the Parsecs of the Millenium Falcon indicating speed I guess? considering G-Force is the amount of pressure felt, not how fast an object is going. and the larger the ship the more G-Force that would be felt like escaping from a planets gravity well.

G-force is not implicitly a pressure felt. 1G is accelerating a 9.82 m/s^2 at sea level. That is the acceleration at all times the force of gravity exerts on us, and the ground exerts it back, keeping us from falling into the planet (among other things). But equal and opposite reactions, if the spaceship is accelerating (not maintaining speed) at 9.82m/^2, it will feel like earth gravity does, parallel to the direction of acceleration.

If we threw a "magic" sky scraper into space and had it accelerate at G, like a spear, people would still be able to walk around and use the stairs/elevator and shouldn't notice anything weird from that perspective. because the skyscraper keeps pushing the people from beneath at 1G force to keep accelerating.

the thing that games tend not to get right is that there is no terminal velocity in space. A spacecraft that continuously accelerates at 1g is not a spacecraft. it is a HELL of a weapon.

anyone else check to see how quickly such a craft would take to achieve superluminal speeds? 12 years. Then it doesn't even notice when it hits its target, as it just flashes into exotic particles when the FTL starship arrives. . . then keeps going.

Asterios wrote:

also i'm out of here, you go with your SM fantasy i'll go with reality.

For someone who is apparantely out of this thread, you sure still are posting quite a bit.

 Blacksails wrote:

Asterios wrote:

also i'm out of here, you go with your SM fantasy i'll go with reality.

For someone who is apparantely out of this thread, you sure still are posting quite a bit.

Isn't this an argument over fantasy situations anyway?

 Vash108 wrote:

 Blacksails wrote:

Asterios wrote:

also i'm out of here, you go with your SM fantasy i'll go with reality.

For someone who is apparantely out of this thread, you sure still are posting quite a bit.

Isn't this an argument over fantasy situations anyway?

This is a forum. Forums discuss things, real or made up. When not discussing fantasy scenarios and what-if situations, we tend to discuss plastic model soldiers. Either way, many people will look at you sideways when you explain what is you're writing about on the internetz.

what it comes down to is you cannot get everyone to agree on everything all the time, you can show a penny to 10 people and they will find some disagreement about it.

A penny killed my dog, raped my fish, and made fun of my mother!

 pumaman1 wrote:
A penny killed my dog, raped my fish, and made fun of my mother!

well the dog got in its way and i'm sure the fish was asking for it (joking ) and you make fun of your mother

Asterios wrote:
and I repeat where is your canon that void shields work in the Ionosphere? not talking lower atmosphere on the ground, but that electrically charged atmosphere known as the Ionosphere.

The canon evidence is that void shields clearly work in an atmosphere (since they are used on various ground units) and there is no evidence that they stop working at some particular altitude.

uh huh, yeah an experiment that tests what happens when an electrical field is used in the Ionosphere has nothing to do with an electrical field (AKA: Void Shield)in the Ionosphere, what because truth proves you are a liar it has nothing to do with the discussion?

Void shields are not mere electrical fields, nor has HAARP done anything about testing how a powerful electrical field (on the level of strength required to stop 40k-scale starship weapons) would interact with the ionosphere.

and yet a gamma-ray burst explosion is still an energetic explosion a very energetic which causes compression waves and such, and yet you claim it isn't, you know you seem to think you know it all and yet show nothing to back up your comments, where is your evidence? you claim to have it, or seem to think you have it, so where is it?

This is completely wrong.


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Asterios wrote:
2.5G's is not enough exertion to escape most planets Gravity wells (like Earths)

Yes it is. Anything over 1g continuous acceleration is sufficient to escape the gravity well. This is just basic physics that you're getting wrong, again.


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Asterios wrote:
thing of it is, in space G's are not felt really

Yes they are. Again, this is basic physics. The only reason you don't feel significant acceleration in space is that real-world spacecraft have very very low acceleration after launch.

like when we sent rockets to the moon, our Astronauts felt the G's escaping Earth's gravity well but nothing after that even though their speed did not reduce really

That's because the engines were off once they made the final boost out of orbit. That has nothing to do with how you will feel acceleration under power.

and the larger the ship the more G-Force that would be felt like escaping from a planets gravity well.

This is not true at all. Once again, basic physics.


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Asterios wrote:
thats why I can't understand why he used G's as a measure of speed?

I didn't use it as a measure of speed, you just don't understand what you're talking about. The 2.5g acceleration of the 40k ship is significant because it represents how fast the ship can accelerate from a predictable orbit into evasive maneuvers to dodge incoming missiles. Since the only real-world weapons with both the delta-V and payload to have even the most desperate prayer of engaging a 40k ship are ballistic missiles being able to dodge at 2.5gs is effectively immunity to any attack. The 40k ship can very quickly get away from the trajectory of any warhead that is predicted to hit.

as for acceleration is not very strong.

It is incredibly strong relative to real-world spacecraft, you just don't understand the subject very well.

Peregrine is correct in that Gees are not a measure of speed but rather acceleration. Otherwise is like thinking that Han Solo's Kessel run in parsecs was in time rather than distance.

Have you ever listened to fighter pilots? The G forces that they can withstand is the amount of force exerted on their bodies before they pass out. No pilot that I'm aware of passes out when they exceed 600 mph (speed) but they will almost all pass out at 12 G (force)

Have you ever ridden on the centrifugal carnival rides? Do you know the amount of force exerted on your body laterally? Maybe 2g