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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Captyn_Bob wrote:
It all looks good. Just.. finding efficiency will be the challenge


I'm trying to decide if any of the new elite units, outside tallyman, actually justify their cost with their kinda situational auras.
   
Made in us
Moustache-twirling Princeps





WA

Crawlers and Haulers seem solid. Mowers maybe too.

   
Made in us
Apprehensive Inquisitorial Apprentice



Seattle, WA

Captyn_Bob wrote:
 ZergSmasher wrote:
I'm just brainstorming ideas for how to convert myself a good "counts-as" Necrosius. Maybe a regular CSM body or a Plague Marine, with a Grey Knight's force halberd, plus some kind of back banner (which I could make from Greenstuff in a pinch). Although, since his profile references "The Tainted", he might actually break a Death Guard detachment (neutering its legion tactics) unless he's allied in with another detachment (maybe with some Nurgle Daemons perhaps?).

He's been FAQd to have the deathguard keyword.
Still waiting confirmation on what 'The Tainted are meant to be. He's good even if you don't use that ability.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Join the Death Guard Facebook group and search for Necrosius, there are lots of examples


The Tainted appears to be the name a vectorium of DG, just a subsidiary warband so the full legion's worth of marines aren't all wearing the same olive drab green. Look to Skulltakers subsidiary warband of WE as another example.

 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




Yeah I get that but what rules do we use. There's no successor chapter rules like space marines have

DFTT 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





I really like the look and strategy of the Myphitic Blight Haulers.

7" aura that your unit bust be in completely, but you're treated as if you're in cover. With a 10" move, that's pretty easy to accomplish. They come stock with a missile launcher and melta gun, as well as another blight weapon, so plenty of anti-tank shots. They have another special rule that requires there to be at least 3 of them in the unit, so I'm guessing they can be taken in units of 1-5 or something, at about 80 points a pop? Not too bad for some good mobile cover and anti-tank weapons, with lots of wounds and disgustingly resilient.
   
Made in pl
Regular Dakkanaut




THIS CODEX !!!!

GODLIKE.

I won't field gak like Poxwalkers ... but those fast attack choices. Those terminators.

I'm in love completly.

I must say - i'm shocked that we actually got another demon Engine. Thanks GW.

Btw CC Bloat Drone with some stratagems , herald and putrefaction spell can Kill ANYTHING ALONE.

Like wtf 9 attacks , rerolling all hits (stratagem). Wounding everything on 2+, rerolling 1's. On 5s 6's dealing mortal wounds on top of dealing 4 DAMAGE EACH HIT - with spell from herald .

It's like ... Lord of war level of damage output.

I'm so hyped and my wallet cries big time. As I will go on massive buying spree !!

I back all my words that DG are not good.

who even needs plague marines/poxwalkers anway with all those possibilites for valid termicide/outrider <3.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
SilverAlien wrote:
Captyn_Bob wrote:
It all looks good. Just.. finding efficiency will be the challenge


I'm trying to decide if any of the new elite units, outside tallyman, actually justify their cost with their kinda situational auras.


I justify Deathshroud and Blightlords as we speak.

heard about overheating plasma countering terminators? Well they are not countered at all. Wounded on 3+ instead of 2+, invu on 4+ instead of 5+ and DR. Overheat your plasma all you want - won't stop those guys at all.

Like why even take Plague Marine if you can take 2 wounds , cataphractii 2+/4++ , 2 attacks , teleport strike Termicide gods. 19 for plague marine 38 for this dude ... and he dishes 2x many attacks in cc and is many times more durable with cata armor and 2 wounds. And much more mobile.
Only downside he is elite not troops ... doesn't matter, vanguard !

And yes i justify 38 points per model compared to Chaos Terminators any day. Not on Plague marines vs normal marines though.

Seems with drones and those Myphitic stuff and excellent Crawler - it's going to be Mech Nurgle with terminators huehue.
I definitelly can't see myself footsloging useless poxes when you have so much other good stuff there.
Sure if i don't field troops - less CPs , but screw it!

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/09/09 20:31:57


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Eh I'm kinda iffy on deathshroud, the only way I see to use them well is load them in a land raider, and that's not great. But yeah blight lords look solid.
   
Made in pl
Regular Dakkanaut




SilverAlien wrote:
Eh I'm kinda iffy on deathshroud, the only way I see to use them well is load them in a land raider, and that's not great. But yeah blight lords look solid.


Yeah imagine only 10 points for flail of corruption on PM it's okay with D3 hits for 1 attack.

On Blightlord it's 2D3 hits with damage spilling so you can kill up to 12 infantry models in one turn with THAT.

I'm mean i'm seriously overexcited but for a reason.

I don't see reason to pay 6 points over marine to get plague marine but i see hundreds of reasons to pay 7 points more for Blightlords. Those guys basically laugh at hellblasters .

OH hellblaster vs chaos termie : to wound 5/6 to get through armor 2/3 so 10/18 to kill when they hit (depending if they reroll) so around 55%
OH Hellblaster vs blightlord : to wound 2/3, armor 1/2 , gotta fail DR twice so 2/3 * 2/3 = 8/54= 4/27 ~~ 14,8% and they gotta hit me first and not blow themself up in process.

yep that is right it's that massive difference, vs lascannons and such also massive boost in resilience.

Basically once you cast miasma on blob of 10 - your opponent will not be able to remove them with any means - including mortal wounds since they ignore 33% of them aswell.

Gotta like order 2 boxes of those LORDS.
   
Made in il
Tzeentch Doomlord Pilot






Doesn't matter-vanguard?
ObjSec wins games mate.

Good elites is good, but you can't skimp on troops.
Fortunately, plagues appear to be good.


Wait...death guard has an ObjSec varaint, right?

can neither confirm nor deny I lost track of what I've got right now. 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




Sure do

DFTT 
   
Made in pl
Regular Dakkanaut




Was doing some math, but lost count when realised Mortarion can do 150ish or more wounds with all his stuff. Maybe even up to 200 in single turn ... Not joking at all. Though that needs some serious setup.But yeah

Honestly even though now I sold my heart to Nurgle - i must say he is a bit OP ... but shhhhhhhhhhh.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




What sort of insane logic give you 150 wounds even as potential? Lantern firing through like 10 units or something?
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




mario88826 wrote:
Was doing some math, but lost count when realised Mortarion can do 150ish or more wounds with all his stuff. Maybe even up to 200 in single turn ... Not joking at all. Though that needs some serious setup.But yeah

Honestly even though now I sold my heart to Nurgle - i must say he is a bit OP ... but shhhhhhhhhhh.


How can he pull that off?
   
Made in il
Tzeentch Doomlord Pilot






Well, I guess if you shove as many single-model-units as humanly possible within his range you can get pretty far.

can neither confirm nor deny I lost track of what I've got right now. 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




mortarion is fragile and slow.

I'll be honest, of the things in the DG codex, I don't rate him. Not compared to his brothers.
   
Made in pl
Regular Dakkanaut




stratigo wrote:
mortarion is fragile and slow.

I'll be honest, of the things in the DG codex, I don't rate him. Not compared to his brothers.


It all comes up to who goes first. If DG player goes first - he is actually unbeatable force - he can cast miasma upon himself ... it's gg. Noone sane will ever attempt Ohing plasma vs him and without OH it's nothing. Lascannons still dangerous but now hitting on 4+ not rerolling 3's even with Guilliman.

And he got biggest damage potential of all MODELS including stompas / titan knights - he can reach ridiculous areas of 200ish wounds per turn.

And let's not forget that it's not so easy to actually spam powers/smite on him - 3x deny holy molly.

Initially I was disappointed with him. Actually I still think he can get dunked if DG aint going first against some heavy Lascannon line. But then again in any other case I can't see him going down.

I used to think Guilliman / Magnus will be stronger than him, but they are nowhere near. Actually I can say he can wipe both Magnus and Guilliman in one turn. Regardless of thier invu saves. As long as his putrescent blade will go off on himself . Then do not use 16str attacks, becuse you wound them on 2+ anyway 18 attacks , each hitting on 2+(rerolling 1's , against guilliman probably around 21-22 attacks with DTFE) , wounding on 2"s rerolling 1's (on 6's or 5's depending on setup mortal wounds/double damage) . So yeah not even counting his possible smites/ phosphex bomb/lantern/ mortal wounds aura - he can just dunk them in one sweep.

And he is actually nowhere near fragile against stuff like deathhex like Guilliman. He still got DR.

All good since I was not sure if I want to buy him, now well not reason not to .
   
Made in lt
Mysterious Techpriest






He should've been T8 to be on par with Magnus(at least on paper). But being close second best isn't bad. Also you can cast warptime on him with a DP or sorc and get him in the fun turn one.
He has upsides of being a much better unit vs hordes(And he does a little more damage in general) and if you have 6 spare CP - warptime in, shooting phase 3cp explosion, fighting phase explosion, opponent shooting phase explosion, opponent fighting phase explosion. It is probably not viable at all, but good god, I want to do it

I do with he had a little less damage but T8 because a Nurgle primarch should be tougher than the Tzeentch... but isn't :/

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2017/09/10 09:33:06


Mathammer(primarily Chaos Daemons, Adeptus Mechanicus, Necrons and Orks) https://drive.google.com/open?id=1mhwa-d77ztppXP9ZUQxur9HewqDTFZ6k
12k pts Daemons
5k pts Orks
5k pts AdMech
3k pts Necrons  
   
Made in pl
Regular Dakkanaut




 rvd1ofakind wrote:
He should've been T8 to be on par with Magnus(at least on paper). But being close second best isn't bad. Also you can cast warptime on him with a DP or sorc and get him in the fun turn one.
He has upsides of being a much better unit vs hordes(And he does a little more damage in general) and if you have 6 spare CP - warptime in, shooting phase 3cp explosion, fighting phase explosion, opponent shooting phase explosion, opponent fighting phase explosion. It is probably not viable at all, but good god, I want to do it

I do with he had a little less damage but T8 because a Nurgle primarch should be tougher than the Tzeentch... but isn't :/


I was the one of biggest pestimists about DG stuff in start and especially about Mortarion in his preview version. But now ... I think he is whole level above both Magnus and Guiliman and rightfully priced above both of his brothers.
He may not be as tough as I was expecting but his offensive potential is higher than Magnus/Guilliman COMBINED. Potential doesn't mean it always throw around 200+ wounds per turn. But being even just able to reach such numbers alone makes him league of his own.
And I'm not talking about D3 mortal wounds aura ... no no - it's minor part of his true potential. But gotta cast this putrescent blades on himself. Which is shame. Because if you cast it on him you can't cast it on deathsroud/blightlords/cc bloat drone.
   
Made in lt
Mysterious Techpriest






I meant he's on almost on par with magnus on pts/performance. If they were equal pts, Mortarion would obviously be better. As of right now, I'm puting Magnus in front by a bit. I could easily see Mortarion being better than Magnus in practice. I'm a very big fan of Mathammer but Martarion is so disruptive and game-changing with his auras, that we'll just have to see...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/09/10 10:47:52


Mathammer(primarily Chaos Daemons, Adeptus Mechanicus, Necrons and Orks) https://drive.google.com/open?id=1mhwa-d77ztppXP9ZUQxur9HewqDTFZ6k
12k pts Daemons
5k pts Orks
5k pts AdMech
3k pts Necrons  
   
Made in nl
Been Around the Block




How are plague bearers and nurglings in 40k? I just started 40k with the dark imperium boxed set but I have bucket lots of plague bearers and nurglings from my fantasy days.
   
Made in pl
Regular Dakkanaut




snottlebocket wrote:
How are plague bearers and nurglings in 40k? I just started 40k with the dark imperium boxed set but I have bucket lots of plague bearers and nurglings from my fantasy days.


Well sadly they are more like good for Demons of Chaos army than DG. Why ? If you bring them to same detachment - you lose legion trait and stratagems etc.

But that being said - you can still summon them and/or bring Demon Nurgle Detachment along with DG one.

Plaguebearers - super good infantry especially when you field 20 and more as they get -1 to hit in both ranged combat and CC. They are super resilient with invu save and FNP. But somewhat not so deadly in CC unless you bring herald of nurgle (which you should ) to increase thier S to 5 and cast virulent blessing on them.

Nurglings are like deep strike buggers used to tie up tanks and other shooty units. And that is pretty good for thier cost.

They can be surprisingly durable especially against Damage 1 attacks.

Probably you have blight drones aswell if you have nurglings/plaguebearers.

Drones are really close to be MVP - now only 34 points for Movement 10 unit that can both shoot and do some major damage in CC. All that while having T5 4Wounds each , 5+ invu, 5+FNP and that all for just 34 points. You can get unit of 3 for 102 points and they make for fast and durable tarpit that can actually kill something aswell.

Was watching MWG review again and now that I heard that Deathshroud only got 2 wounds - no friggin hell I will take them. Let's be honest they are not more resilient than Blightlords , have less possible weapons setups. Sure they punch harder. But basic setup for them is total 75 points per 2 wound model . I can get Noxious Blightbringer for this price or other elite guys so it's really asking for a lot. Now actually can get plagueburst crawler for 2 deathshroud guys. Sorry not worth it.
Now if they had 3 wounds like Custodes - then we can speak again. As it stands - I will still take them for glorious models , but in tournament they won't fit with being just 2 wounds. They ask me to pay 225 points for 6 wounds there, sure 2+/4++/5++ and T5, but still far from good investment.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/09/10 12:47:30


 
   
Made in it
Fresh-Faced New User




The Deathshroud need either and extra wound, other options, or a price cut.
Compare them with GK Paladins, who at base cost 53 ppm and at their most expensive get cost 73pts for a model with a heavy weapon (psycannon or incinerator) have 3 wounds and are psykers and are in units of 5 (4+paragon). T5 hardly justifies the difference in cost.
Edit: And DR, I guess. But still.

As they are now, I would just always go with Blightlords over Deathshroud.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/09/10 16:42:15


 
   
Made in pl
Regular Dakkanaut




BlueBiscuit wrote:
The Deathshroud need either and extra wound, other options, or a price cut.
Compare them with GK Paladins, who at base cost 53 ppm and at their most expensive get cost 73pts for a model with a heavy weapon (psycannon or incinerator) have 3 wounds and are psykers and are in units of 5 (4+paragon). T5 hardly justifies the difference in cost.

As they are now, I would just always go with Blightlords over Deathshroud.


Actually that is fairly okay as psycannon or incinerator are not damn manreaper ... Manreaper is MANReaper . No seriously weapon itself is pretty damn good and they have pistol flamer aswell.

So maybe that is okay cost after all.
As GK Paladin is nowhere near Deathsroud and still can cost just 2 points less.

Edit - yeah I was looking at Paladins now in Battlescribe - nothing special .Sure they got 3 wounds instead of 2 like Deathshroud but thier invu is 5+ , thier S/T is 4 not 5 and they don't have feel no pain. Psyker bs won't make up for all this stuff.

Plain and simple deathshroud is more elite unit than Paladins.
Now that I think about it maybe 3 wounds would make them too op. But with 2 they also look squishy. But then again you can expect to dish more damage from them than you would get from those Paladins so it's okay.

But I agree with Blightlords looking just better. Especially that Blightlords don't need ride to deal damage(can equip ranged dakka and cc weapons). As if you rely on deep strike charge 27% and you pay 225 points for 3 guys haha. Then you better deepstrike chaos sorcerer with warp time too.

Even then still need to make 5" - would be funny as hell to fail it .

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/09/10 16:52:41


 
   
Made in it
Fresh-Faced New User




What are the stats on the Deathshroud manreaper again?
   
Made in pl
Regular Dakkanaut




BlueBiscuit wrote:
What are the stats on the Deathshroud manreaper again?


Who knows For sure it's +3Strenght and AP -3 and damage and it's plague weapon. No penalty to hitting etc.

But actually idk what is WS of Deathsroud and idk if damage is Flat 3 damage or D3 roll. Normal Manreaper on Typhus is Flat 3 damage.

They said at MWG it's D3 roll , but they made some mistakes in thier review already. Like they said typhus had D3 roll damage before , when he always was flat 3.

Either someone clarifies or we have to wait till we get our hands on codex .

You said T5 is not enough with 2 wounds , but T5 and FNP AND INVU on 4+ ... gotta say they are not less resilient than Paladins. And they deal more damage. Especially as 3 of them can shoot even in CC pistol for 3d6 hits plague weapon so ... if they are close to morty or other warlord with archcontaminator - then they can reroll all failed wound rolls on this autohitting pistols. That can actually dish some damage especially against some low armor targets.
There is no doubt that Paladins are nowhere near Deathsroud in terms of damage output. And it's questionable if 1 wound beats 5T/4++ invu and FNP. I would say Paladins lose in that regard aswell.

But they don't have movement at 4 and advancing is not halved.

Basically I like Deathshroud but I'm afraid they will be kited forever against armies that don't want to be in CC - tau / anygunlines. Unless you bring sorecer to warp them or LandRaider. And i really don't like how much points i spend on 3 guys and ride ~~580ish ? Sure LandRaider is not just ride so maybe it's worth... Maybe.

Need to test. I will get them ANYWAY since models are great .

Your comparison kinda made me look on GK's and hell they are unimpressive - thier normal terminators kinda look like joke compared to Blightlords. But then again they can take them as troops (imagine blightlords being troops haha).

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/09/10 17:05:34


 
   
Made in it
Fresh-Faced New User




So I'm seeing here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJSis6ePay0
That the statline for Blightlords and Deathshroud is identical, their only difference are the +1A to characters on the Deathshroud and the "6+ to wound add -1 AP" for the BL, as well as the more varied loadout options.

So I don't see how you can justify the point difference between Deathshroud and Blightlords.
   
Made in pl
Regular Dakkanaut




BlueBiscuit wrote:
So I'm seeing here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJSis6ePay0
That the statline for Blightlords and Deathshroud is identical, their only difference are the +1A to characters on the Deathshroud and the "6+ to wound add -1 AP" for the BL, as well as the more varied loadout options.

So I don't see how you can justify the point difference between Deathshroud and Blightlords.


Well there is other stuff , they have base strenght of 5 aswell not just +1A. Also access to different stuff . And they can intercept wounds on characters including morty. AND they actually can have 4 attacks and 5 on champion if there is character nearby or so.

And I can't really say that 4 S8 AP-3 D3 Plague weapons swings is nothing.

There is one thing we don't know aswell - actually Deathshroud have if I heard correct - 3 different setups or so, so who knows maybe they can have something else. Really hard to say.
   
Made in it
Fresh-Faced New User




Blightlords, at least according to that review, also have S5 3A and can intercept wounds for DG characters. They don't get manreapers and can't give +1 attack to characters, but that's it apparently.
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran





Deathshrouds can intercept hits intended for Morty.

If you are bringing the big man you probably want some of these too to make sure he gets where he's going.
   
Made in it
Fresh-Faced New User




 dan2026 wrote:
Deathshrouds can intercept hits intended for Morty.

If you are bringing the big man you probably want some of these too to make sure he gets where he's going.

So can the Blightlords.
   
 
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