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 Nightlord1987 wrote:
With some drop of AP values I'm wondering about weapons like the Ork Shoota or Tyranid fleshborers. Will they be the same as Bolters but with different range?

We haven't seen any assault weapons yet.

The Flamer was, actually, but that's a fair point.

So they nerf bolters.

And autocannons, depending on damage, either
damage 1 - need 32 hits to kill a dread or
more than 1 - shred terminators almost twice faster than now because of -1 modifier whilst ignoring their multi-woundness with that damage

Sonic Keyboard wrote:
So they nerf bolters.

Bolters can now wound Dreads and presumably many other vehicles that they could not touch before. How is that a nerf?

Sonic Keyboard wrote:
So they nerf bolters.

And autocannons, depending on damage, either
damage 1 - need 32 hits to kill a dread or
more than 1 - shred terminators almost twice faster than now because of -1 modifier whilst ignoring their multi-woundness with that damage

You are implying that guardsman and orks etc are still going to have saves. It's hardly a nerf when we haven't seen what they are going to be shooting.

Yes now you can take one of 8 wounds off a dread with your tacs rapid firing. But no more rear armor hp stripping.

And they will also deal 16-33% less damage to light infantry which bolters are supposed to be good against.
As if there were 3 guardsmen instead of 2.

How much will a tac marine cost then, 9 points?

Pretty sure a tactical marine wills till cost similar as today. They didn't just nerf bolter. They in effect nerfed every weapon in the game. A lascannon now allows a Tactical marine to save against it. Making them 1/6 more likely to survive the impossible.

Bolted was never worth 5 pts anyways. For years I've heard shootas were better then bolters. Shootas are 1pt each. You aren't losing the bolted either. It's suffering the same as all infantry basic weapon. We lose our AP too. Imagine if shootas (argued to be better for yrs due to assault rule on it) was worth 5 or more pts which would means orks are 2pts/ model or less?...? Odd how the estimated value of a bolted swings depending on convenience.

Yeah, they aren't only nerfing bolters, they are nerfing every weapon, and personally, I like that. I like to roll my saves, even if they are reduced. I don't like the AP sistem of "If I shoot you with the wrong weapon, you are inmortal, if I shoot you with my 2ap spam, you just vaporice"

Sonic Keyboard wrote:
So they nerf bolters.

And autocannons, depending on damage, either
damage 1 - need 32 hits to kill a dread or
more than 1 - shred terminators almost twice faster than now because of -1 modifier whilst ignoring their multi-woundness with that damage

Bolters are still really good. You are S4, you wound most things on 3's and many others on 4's. Or do you want to swap?

Bolters have always sucked due to the cost of getting them on the field, just as non-gladius tac marines have always sucked. Bolters have NEVER been useful against units that matter.

 master of ordinance wrote:

Sonic Keyboard wrote:
So they nerf bolters.

And autocannons, depending on damage, either
damage 1 - need 32 hits to kill a dread or
more than 1 - shred terminators almost twice faster than now because of -1 modifier whilst ignoring their multi-woundness with that damage

Bolters are still really good. You are S4, you wound most things on 3's and many others on 4's. Or do you want to swap?

Yeah kinda. I'll swap for literally anything else actually. I'd go to Lasguns if it made anything even a point cheaper. The only unit that uses Bolters efficiently is Sternguard.

Who needs guns when you can charge ?

People who don't like close combat.