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Made in de
Mighty Chosen Warrior of Chaos






So this is it the new weapon profils.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/04/26/warhammer-40000-weapons/

Notice: Bolter has no AP

I am not sure if i like it or not. What do you think

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/04/26 16:55:10


 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




Orks, Guardsmen, Kabalite Warriors rejoice!
You can actually roll your saves....
   
Made in us
Shas'la with Pulse Carbine




So a las cannon is - 3 to armor.

Against 3+ armor units their armor save is now 6 right?

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Knights / Assassins 800  
   
Made in us
Contagious Dreadnought of Nurgle






Flamers OP

 
   
Made in us
Confessor Of Sins




WA, USA

D weapons are gone.

 Ouze wrote:

Afterward, Curran killed a guy in the parking lot with a trident.
 
   
Made in us
Shas'la with Pulse Carbine




 curran12 wrote:
D weapons are gone.


D weapons, for example, are gone, and instead there is a scalable Strength and damage that matches the effectiveness you’d expect from every weapon.

So you'll still have weapons that do something like - heavy 3d6, Str 15 Dmg 2d6, - 6 to saves.
- I mean you need something to kill these potential SHV and GC replacements with 30+ wounds

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/04/26 15:23:31


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8000
Knights / Assassins 800  
   
Made in de
Mighty Chosen Warrior of Chaos






 Luciferian wrote:
Flamers OP


I dont think so. That's 3.5 hits. In 7th you could easily hit 5 or even 10 especially against horde armies.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/04/26 15:26:34


 
   
Made in us
Contagious Dreadnought of Nurgle






Seriously though, I can't see too many other things being as cost effective a way to bury your opponent in dice rolls than a huge amount of flamers that automatically hit D6 times.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
nordsturmking wrote:
 Luciferian wrote:
Flamers OP


I dont think so. That's 3.5 hits. In 7th you could easily hit 5 or even 10 especially against horde armies.


The difference is that you can hit single models more than once.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/04/26 15:28:38


 
   
Made in us
Homicidal Veteran Blood Angel Assault Marine






Individual templates became less effective. A squad with several of them became more effective, as you no longer need them in front to avoid hitting your own men.

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Made in us
Shas'la with Pulse Carbine




You know who just got even more powerful?

SOB
Salamanders

Fire Dragons....5 Meltas each doing probably d6 wounds St8 - 6 to saves.... (taking stats from Shadow Wars)

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Made in us
Confessor Of Sins




WA, USA

Well, remember that the meltas will be only killing off one model at a time anyway, most likely. Amazing for monster and tank hunting absolutely. And my Dominions cannot wait for that... >:3

 Ouze wrote:

Afterward, Curran killed a guy in the parking lot with a trident.
 
   
Made in us
Contagious Dreadnought of Nurgle






I'm really glad I put so many meltas in my army. Now I'm curious how Grav will work...

 
   
Made in gb
Legendary Dogfighter





RNAS Rockall

 troa wrote:
Individual templates became less effective. A squad with several of them became more effective, as you no longer need them in front to avoid hitting your own men.


I must directly contradict you; they become viable where before they were a bad option because if you're shooting 2+ units at a target, every time one unit killed models in the target unit, the succeeding units had less potential hits. It's why you had/have wyvern batteries, instead of 3 individual wyverns.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Luciferian wrote:
I'm really glad I put so many meltas in my army. Now I'm curious how Grav will work...


I'm holding out for d6 on small blasts. Plasma cannons will become a joy to behold.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/04/26 15:40:40


Some people find the idea that other people can be happy offensive, and will prefer causing harm to self improvement.  
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




So, we haven't see if Mortal Wounds exist yet in new 40k. That would be the way to go with Melta. 1d6 Mortal wounds.

It would make the weapon instant kill a grunt and deadly vs vehicles/MC.


I would guess plasma will look like: 1d3 hits of 1d3 wounds. With a roll of 1 doing 1 wound to firer.

Missile Launchers are probably Frag 1d6 hits of 1 wound each, Krak 1 hit of 1d6 wounds.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/04/26 15:44:53


 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




 Luciferian wrote:
I'm really glad I put so many meltas in my army. Now I'm curious how Grav will work...

I'm hoping a lot less shots but multiple wounds so it will be effective against single large targets but not annihilate entire units with moderate saves.

Anyway.
Approximation time!
Since Lascannons were Ap2 and have become -3
Current Ap 4 weapons will likely become -1
Ap 3 would be -2
and Ap 1 -4


Also I'm hoping melta weapons will do D6 damage (Like the lascannon) but at 1/2 range or less change to 3+D3
   
Made in fr
Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot





France

I regret the template for flamers as it was both practical and visually fun, but it's even let game equipment you have to pay.

I'd rather wait to give any true opinion, because this will depend on the overall system for shooting and weapons stats and how it could perform within the overall rules, but it looks good at least.

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Bolt Action: Germany/ USA
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Made in us
Pious Palatine




 malamis wrote:
 troa wrote:
Individual templates became less effective. A squad with several of them became more effective, as you no longer need them in front to avoid hitting your own men.


I must directly contradict you; they become viable where before they were a bad option because if you're shooting 2+ units at a target, every time one unit killed models in the target unit, the succeeding units had less potential hits. It's why you had/have wyvern batteries, instead of 3 individual wyverns.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Luciferian wrote:
I'm really glad I put so many meltas in my army. Now I'm curious how Grav will work...


I'm holding out for d6 on small blasts. Plasma cannons will become a joy to behold.


It's gonna be D3 dude


 
   
Made in gb
Legendary Dogfighter





RNAS Rockall

ERJAK wrote:

It's gonna be D3 dude


Let me dream X)

It'd be interesting to see if weapons introduce to-hit modifiers (blasts+1 for example). Large blasts at d6 will be interesting, the Standard Russ would become almost viable under that profile.

Some people find the idea that other people can be happy offensive, and will prefer causing harm to self improvement.  
   
Made in us
Potent Possessed Daemonvessel





The biggest change with the way old template weapons work now is that they cannot hit multiple units. Flamers are now good against single models and units, but they do not have the upside against units that they used to. If we think of the Baleflamer from the heldrake, it currently can easily kill a whole squad of 10+ models, if it is changed to D6 hits it would be far less effective. Where as something like the mentioned Burna Boyz now can now put out a lot of hurt (15D6 hits) to any unit. Essentially your effectiveness is no longer tied to unit size any more.

Glad to see no rend on bolters, as much as fluff might suggest otherwise, I like the idea that basic weapons for the most part allow units to get whatever saves they have. Currently 5+ and 6+ saves seem largely meaningless.

My last thought is that in general these changes are a general nerf on single multiple wound models in comparison to multiple model units. As small arms currently effect all units the same, and big guns like the las-cannon do all their wounds to a single model. So based on stats from yesterday a terminator is as durable as 4 marines against a bolter, but only as durable as 2 against a lascannon. However, 1 lascannon shot can kill a terminator where it cannot kill 2 marines.
   
Made in us
Clousseau





East Bay, Ca, US

So, consider a Land Raider Redeemer.

If the Flamer is now an 8" shot, would that be from the front of the hull, or from the sponson itself?

If it's from the front of the hull, that might be viable.

Hoping storm bolters get a -1 at least.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/04/26 16:14:29


 Galas wrote:
I remember when Marmatag was a nooby, all shiney and full of joy. How playing the unbalanced mess of Warhammer40k in a ultra-competitive meta has changed you

Bharring wrote:
He'll actually *change his mind* in the presence of sufficient/sufficiently defended information. Heretic.
 
   
Made in gb
Legendary Dogfighter





RNAS Rockall

 Marmatag wrote:
So, consider a Land Raider Redeemer.

If the Flamer is now an 8" shot, would that be from the front of the hull, or from the sponson itself?

If it's from the front of the hull, that might be viable.

Hoping storm bolters get a -1 at least.


Maybe vehicle mounted templates will get an extended range?

Since the Flamethrower armory has been tied down to the template for 10+ years, it might mean we get *variety* in burninating from now on.

Some people find the idea that other people can be happy offensive, and will prefer causing harm to self improvement.  
   
Made in us
The Conquerer






Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios

My guess is they won't. They'll likely just be Assault 2. And bolters will still get an extra shot within half range.

Templates going away does kinda make me sad. It was a nice visual, and realistic, way of determining hits.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/04/26 16:20:16


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Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.

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Made in us
Clousseau





East Bay, Ca, US

 Grey Templar wrote:
My guess is they won't. They'll likely just be Assault 2. And bolters will still get an extra shot within half range.

Templates going away does kinda make me sad. It was a nice visual, and realistic, way of determining hits.


I 100% agree with you.

Here's how i see it:

1. in a friendly fun-gamer world, the template was awesome. i loved using them. there really aren't disputes regarding templates, scatter, etc, here, because everyone came to have fun and winning, while awesome, is secondary to playing and having fun.

2. in a competitive scenario, templates & scatter become a huge point of consternation, and they bog the game down. You need an unbiased third party in a lot of template scenarios.

The other side of the coin is that if indeed the template isn't being dropped from the sponson and we treat flamers like any other weapon, that makes them a lot more viable in the Land Raider Redeemer case. 8" from the hull on any side will actually hit things. To the point where a redeemer isn't a total waste.

EDIT- how awesome will it be if Grey Knight Paladins have 4 wounds each? That would be awesomesauce.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/04/26 16:25:41


 Galas wrote:
I remember when Marmatag was a nooby, all shiney and full of joy. How playing the unbalanced mess of Warhammer40k in a ultra-competitive meta has changed you

Bharring wrote:
He'll actually *change his mind* in the presence of sufficient/sufficiently defended information. Heretic.
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Ute nation

I guess I'll have to stop calling it rend now, though they did go with the AoS rend range (0-3). I'm going to guess meltas do extra damage when they are in melta range, maybe 2d6 or something.

If that's right, a melta could one shot a dreadnought a bit less than half the time when in melta range. As opposed to now where a melta could one shot a dread about half the time when in half range. An average of three shots, to kill a dread with a Las Cannon, compared to twoish now. So, all in all looks like low-end vehicles are a bit more durable, which is great. Now I'm intensely curious to see what monoliths and land raiders are like them being the upper-end of the non-lord of war vehicles.

Constantly being negative doesn't make you seem erudite, it just makes you look like a curmudgeon.  
   
Made in ca
Fully-charged Electropriest






One thing I noticed is that the boltgun is listed as a rapid fire 1 type weapon. Rapid fires number of shot was always fixed before but I wonder what the number means. My guess is the number is the number of shots at max range and +1 at half range.
   
Made in us
Clousseau





East Bay, Ca, US

 Grimgold wrote:
I guess I'll have to stop calling it rend now, though they did go with the AoS rend range (0-3). I'm going to guess meltas do extra damage when they are in melta range, maybe 2d6 or something.

If that's right, a melta could one shot a dreadnought a bit less than half the time when in melta range. As opposed to now where a melta could one shot a dread about half the time when in half range. An average of three shots, to kill a dread with a Las Cannon, compared to twoish now. So, all in all looks like low-end vehicles are a bit more durable, which is great. Now I'm intensely curious to see what monoliths and land raiders are like them being the upper-end of the non-lord of war vehicles.


Actually meltas being AP1 might have a higher rend than lascannons. I would expect AP1 to translate to -5.

And remember, vehicles have a save. Dreadnoughts getting a 2+ save means against a lascannon they get a save - 5+. Whereas against a melta, if it was -5, they would not.

Also - do we know yet, if you get a save per wound, or one save roll for all wounds? I would *assume* that you get a save per wound, not a save per shot. So if that lascannon inflicts 6 wounds, you get 6 save rolls, not 1.

 Galas wrote:
I remember when Marmatag was a nooby, all shiney and full of joy. How playing the unbalanced mess of Warhammer40k in a ultra-competitive meta has changed you

Bharring wrote:
He'll actually *change his mind* in the presence of sufficient/sufficiently defended information. Heretic.
 
   
Made in ie
Norn Queen






Dublin, Ireland

Not impressed with the lascannons variable damage. They should have made it like dmg3 or dmg4. Its supposed to be a really hard hitting weapon.
But with some unlucky rolls you could end up doing a single point of damage.

I see weapon types still remain, assault, RF, heavy. Wonder if the rules are exactly the same as 7th for them or some tweaks will be brought in.

Anyone want to mathammer a 4 man dev squad with LCs VS yesterdays Dreadnought stats?

Dman137 wrote:
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By 1-irt: Still as long as Hissy keeps showing up this is one of the most entertaining threads ever.

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Made in us
Beautiful and Deadly Keeper of Secrets





Breng77 wrote:
The biggest change with the way old template weapons work now is that they cannot hit multiple units. Flamers are now good against single models and units, but they do not have the upside against units that they used to. If we think of the Baleflamer from the heldrake, it currently can easily kill a whole squad of 10+ models, if it is changed to D6 hits it would be far less effective.
What is 2" spacing?

Also this is hilarious, the age of Orks and IG getting saves!
   
Made in us
Potent Possessed Daemonvessel





It wasn't always possible to 2+" space an entire squad and still remain in cover or hidden from other models.

I like Orks and IG getting saves, sorry you liked them just getting removed by almost every weapon in the game.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Ute nation

 Marmatag wrote:
 Grimgold wrote:
I guess I'll have to stop calling it rend now, though they did go with the AoS rend range (0-3). I'm going to guess meltas do extra damage when they are in melta range, maybe 2d6 or something.

If that's right, a melta could one shot a dreadnought a bit less than half the time when in melta range. As opposed to now where a melta could one shot a dread about half the time when in half range. An average of three shots, to kill a dread with a Las Cannon, compared to twoish now. So, all in all looks like low-end vehicles are a bit more durable, which is great. Now I'm intensely curious to see what monoliths and land raiders are like them being the upper-end of the non-lord of war vehicles.


Actually meltas being AP1 might have a higher rend than lascannons. I would expect AP1 to translate to -5.

And remember, vehicles have a save. Dreadnoughts getting a 2+ save means against a lascannon they get a save - 5+. Whereas against a melta, if it was -5, they would not.

Also - do we know yet, if you get a save per wound, or one save roll for all wounds? I would *assume* that you get a save per wound, not a save per shot. So if that lascannon inflicts 6 wounds, you get 6 save rolls, not 1.


Dreadnoughts have a 3+ save, and I'd willing to bet real money that it's a save per wound rather than a save per hit. Meltas will at best be -4 if las cannons are -3, which is still enough to make it so Dreads don't get saves against the wounds. In any case bringing the right tool for the job is absolutely vital now, which will hopefully force more TAC style lists.

Constantly being negative doesn't make you seem erudite, it just makes you look like a curmudgeon.  
   
 
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