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 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
After playing quite a few games with tank bustas in trukks, I came to the conclusion that trukks really aren't the problem. It wouldn't hurt to shave off a few points, but they really do their job well when their cargo is pulling its own weight. Main issue with trukks is that neither units of 12 boyz nor 3 MANz are really a danger to anything and therefore not worth being transported in a trukk. If that changes, I think people would gladly pay ~80 points for a trukk that will deliver its passengers to their target more often than not, where in 7th you could easily lose 6+ trukks in turn 1.

I think if trukk boyz got some sort of a push, a battalions that run 3 trukks with 12 boyz each insider as troops and a KFF mek and a warboss on a bike would be just 662 without potential reduction from the codex. By fielding two or even three such battalions this would allow such list to have a great amount of CP to burn on stratagems, assuming we get something better than mob up.

I definitely wouldn't be saying trukks are useful if Mob Up wasn't available for sure. 22 boyz is a pretty decent unit (one needs to be 10 and under). With point costs I think it'd be pretty solid. Maybe if they made Mob Up for size 12, too.

Yeah, I hope they loosen the restrictions on mob up a bit. The smaller unit should be increased to 12 but as long as one group is 12 or fewer I don't understand why the other has a required size at all. If I want to mob up a group of 4 orks and a group of 3 for whatever reason, why shouldn't I be able to?

PiñaColada wrote:

Yeah, I hope they loosen the restrictions on mob up a bit. The smaller unit should be increased to 12 but as long as one group is 12 or fewer I don't understand why the other has a required size at all. If I want to mob up a group of 4 orks and a group of 3 for whatever reason, why shouldn't I be able to?

Good point. That would make Trukk MANZ more useful, too. I can't really think of a way to abuse that very easily either.

Mob up would have been amazing if it had no restriction on unit profile. Not as amazing as is. There'd be a reason to actually use meganobz.

 koooaei wrote:
Mob up would have been amazing if it had no restriction on unit profile. Not as amazing as is. There'd be a reason to actually use meganobz.

I think it would have been great, but maybe 2+ CP for that otherwise you'll have MANZ buried lick ticks in a mob with unwavering morale. Like...jump full sized Manz. Mob them up at the end of move phase with a unit that's already near charging. Gross.

Maybe i'm just over thinking it.

That'd be an interesting stratagem but for the sake of clarity, I was just asking them to loosen the restrictions in regards to number of models, not types of units merging.

PiñaColada wrote:
That'd be an interesting stratagem but for the sake of clarity, I was just asking them to loosen the restrictions in regards to number of models, not types of units merging.

Yea I got that and I think it's a good idea.

Why we can't merge two units of infantry that are less than 10 models is bizarre IMO.

Maybe the Bosspole will return as a cheap piece of wargear that allows smaller units to mob up? IIRC the Bosspole gave a bonus to mobbing up back in 3rd edition.

Trukkz are most assuredly the problem. Saying they aren't because Tankbustas survive for an extra turn doesn't change that fact.

Put literally anything else in a trukk and its a waste, hell I still think Tankbustas in a trukk isn't that great either. You just make a target that much more of a priority for lascannons and other anti-vehicle weapons. I would prioritize tankbustas every turn because killing the trukk is an 80pt hit and then the bustas take another 1/6th wounds, then i can kill the remainder with bolter fire or equivalent.

You shouldn't have to buy two models to kake 1 model work. A tankbusta unit should be able to hold it's own geound without a trukk. The trukk shouod just increase its mobility and effectiveness.

 lolman1c wrote:
You shouldn't have to buy two models to kake 1 model work. A tankbusta unit should be able to hold it's own geound without a trukk. The trukk shouod just increase its mobility and effectiveness.

This seems poorly thought out to me.
It's not two models it's two units.
Transported units are more or less all protected the same way as well as transported to where ever.
Saying gunned down doesn't really say anything with out more context.
What does "hold it's own" even mean.

 warhead01 wrote:

 lolman1c wrote:
You shouldn't have to buy two models to kake 1 model work. A tankbusta unit should be able to hold it's own geound without a trukk. The trukk shouod just increase its mobility and effectiveness.

This seems poorly thought out to me.
It's not two models it's two units.
Transported units are more or less all protected the same way as well as transported to where ever.
Saying gunned down doesn't really say anything with out more context.
What does "hold it's own" even mean.

What does hold its own mean? It means it accomplishes its primary goal without needing a secondary unit to back it up. Tankbustas DONT WORK without a second unit because they die to a stiff breeze.

SemperMortis wrote:

 warhead01 wrote:

 lolman1c wrote:
You shouldn't have to buy two models to kake 1 model work. A tankbusta unit should be able to hold it's own geound without a trukk. The trukk shouod just increase its mobility and effectiveness.

This seems poorly thought out to me.
It's not two models it's two units.
Transported units are more or less all protected the same way as well as transported to where ever.
Saying gunned down doesn't really say anything with out more context.
What does "hold it's own" even mean.

What does hold its own mean? It means it accomplishes its primary goal without needing a secondary unit to back it up. Tankbustas DONT WORK without a second unit because they die to a stiff breeze.

Ok. and this is an issue why? did you forget to bring the rest of your army? How many Tankbustas are in that unit? what are they shooting at?
So. Duh? Why are people fixated with Tankbustas anyway?

 warhead01 wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:

 warhead01 wrote:

 lolman1c wrote:
You shouldn't have to buy two models to kake 1 model work. A tankbusta unit should be able to hold it's own geound without a trukk. The trukk shouod just increase its mobility and effectiveness.

This seems poorly thought out to me.
It's not two models it's two units.
Transported units are more or less all protected the same way as well as transported to where ever.
Saying gunned down doesn't really say anything with out more context.
What does "hold it's own" even mean.

What does hold its own mean? It means it accomplishes its primary goal without needing a secondary unit to back it up. Tankbustas DONT WORK without a second unit because they die to a stiff breeze.

Ok. and this is an issue why? did you forget to bring the rest of your army? How many Tankbustas are in that unit? what are they shooting at?
So. Duh? Why are people fixated with Tankbustas anyway?

5-10 usually, what are they shooting at? Vehicles. Why? because they are the only reliable anti-tank we have. Why are we fixated on tankbustas? because they REQUIRE a transport to function at all.

SemperMortis wrote:

 warhead01 wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:

 warhead01 wrote:

 lolman1c wrote:
You shouldn't have to buy two models to kake 1 model work. A tankbusta unit should be able to hold it's own geound without a trukk. The trukk shouod just increase its mobility and effectiveness.

This seems poorly thought out to me.
It's not two models it's two units.
Transported units are more or less all protected the same way as well as transported to where ever.
Saying gunned down doesn't really say anything with out more context.
What does "hold it's own" even mean.

What does hold its own mean? It means it accomplishes its primary goal without needing a secondary unit to back it up. Tankbustas DONT WORK without a second unit because they die to a stiff breeze.

Ok. and this is an issue why? did you forget to bring the rest of your army? How many Tankbustas are in that unit? what are they shooting at?
So. Duh? Why are people fixated with Tankbustas anyway?

5-10 usually, what are they shooting at? Vehicles. Why? because they are the only reliable anti-tank we have. Why are we fixated on tankbustas? because they REQUIRE a transport to function at all.

Sounds like a waste of points. I thought KMK's were all the rage. And why wouldn't I just take Kannons for that sweat D6 damage. Or throw boys into combat with a tank. Relying on one unit seems silly. especially given what we already know about them. I will never understand why any one would expect a single Ork unit to "work". that way. why isn't the Ork player using all of their unit to support each other to "get work done".
Damb things are BS5+ How much can you really expect. even with a roll that's not that many more hits at all.
Even still so what if Tankbustas need a trukk. They have a 6+ save.

 warhead01 wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:

 warhead01 wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:

 warhead01 wrote:

 lolman1c wrote:
You shouldn't have to buy two models to kake 1 model work. A tankbusta unit should be able to hold it's own geound without a trukk. The trukk shouod just increase its mobility and effectiveness.

This seems poorly thought out to me.
It's not two models it's two units.
Transported units are more or less all protected the same way as well as transported to where ever.
Saying gunned down doesn't really say anything with out more context.
What does "hold it's own" even mean.

What does hold its own mean? It means it accomplishes its primary goal without needing a secondary unit to back it up. Tankbustas DONT WORK without a second unit because they die to a stiff breeze.

Ok. and this is an issue why? did you forget to bring the rest of your army? How many Tankbustas are in that unit? what are they shooting at?
So. Duh? Why are people fixated with Tankbustas anyway?

5-10 usually, what are they shooting at? Vehicles. Why? because they are the only reliable anti-tank we have. Why are we fixated on tankbustas? because they REQUIRE a transport to function at all.

Sounds like a waste of points. I thought KMK's were all the rage. And why wouldn't I just take Kannons for that sweat D6 damage. Or throw boys into combat with a tank. Relying on one unit seems silly. especially given what we already know about them. I will never understand why any one would expect a single Ork unit to "work". that way. why isn't the Ork player using all of their unit to support each other to "get work done".
Damb things are BS5+ How much can you really expect. even with a roll that's not that many more hits at all.
Even still so what if Tankbustas need a trukk. They have a 6+ save.

KMKs are great but Tankbustas get Rerolls vs vehicles, and a 2+ rerollable squig bomb. As to why they are fixated? no idea, I never use them simply because they DO require a trukk to function. as to why that is a big deal? because If I take 1 or 2 or even 3 trukkz, I have unwittingly given my opponent the perfect targets for his plethora of anti-vehicle weapons while my boyz run up the field. since target saturation is how Orkz win, splitting off 250pts for useless transports to move anywhere from 250-500+pts of Tankbustas seems kind of dumb. So the fact that they need a trukk that serves ZERO purpose beyond giving them a chance to survive means that you are basically adding the value of the trukk to the cost of the unit of Tankbustas, so in a unit of 10 bustas you are adding 8pts per model to their cost to give them T6 4+ save for however long it takes before it explodes and kills 1-2 Tank bustas. So with that 8pts added to the cost the bustas in my humble opinion become to over priced to be worth fielding and I would rather have more boyz then a unit of bustas.

 warhead01 wrote:

 lolman1c wrote:
You shouldn't have to buy two models to kake 1 model work. A tankbusta unit should be able to hold it's own geound without a trukk. The trukk shouod just increase its mobility and effectiveness.

This seems poorly thought out to me.
It's not two models it's two units.
Transported units are more or less all protected the same way as well as transported to where ever.
Saying gunned down doesn't really say anything with out more context.
What does "hold it's own" even mean.

Wow... this just sounds kinda hateful towards me for some reason. Just because I'm not very good at putting my thoughts into words doesn't mean you have to analyse a sentence like I'm a politician. Futhermore, everything I said has context in the meaning of the overall conversation going on in this thread and "hold it's own" is a common expression used by a kot of people and the other guy clearly understood it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, the reason we simply can't just have Orks working together is because a squad of about 10 tankbustas in their trukk with squigs is 300pts. You're paying 200+pts for a unit with a 6 up save and 1 wound that needs be 18" away from the enemy. So you gotta add that 80+pts to even get in range if the enemy. In the end (I play mainly 1k-1.5k games) you're looking at spending 1/3 of your points on a single unit that's an easy target. We're Orks! We should be abke to use synergy like you said but most our units cost more than the marine counterparts! Hell, in some games I watched the marine brought more units and models than the ork player because he wanted to play something other than boyz. Now you want a manz unit in a trukk? 5 of them with no upgrades is again about 300pts in a trukk. Hell, give them kill saws snd we're getting eveb higher. So you want a trukk army you're now spending 600+pts on two units that arnt boyy, can't survive outside the trukk until you get to your destination, and die to simple anti infintry weapons. At this point you might as well get 90boyz for the same price and da jumped the units in by the time the tukks make it. I want these units i paid money for to be something i want to use....

As someone who is building an entirely mobile list where everything either has to be on wheels or start in a transport with wheels. (yes I know it won't be good but it's fun) I certainly wouldn't be opposed to some point changes of our transports. I don't know how much a trukk is worth but it's certainly less than a rhino. I'd be happy if they landed on 60 points although they could without a doubt go lower without it being weird. Same thing with battlewagons, a naked one should be 120ish points but these are changes I just assume we'll get.

The problem with a trukk and tankbustas is that both of them are overpriced, however I seem to think tankbustas are less overpriced than a lot of people. Lower them from 17ppm to 13 and I'd be really happy with that. I also hope bombsquigs can attack anything not supersonic, not just flyers since that invalidates them against many armies (all those space elves). That combined with a change to the dakka dakka dakka stratagem, which should be hit rolls of 6+ generate extra hits, not shots. If people thinks that's too good for 1 CP then make it 2 but as of right now that stratagem seems so underwhelming.

SemperMortis wrote:
Trukkz are most assuredly the problem. Saying they aren't because Tankbustas survive for an extra turn doesn't change that fact.

Put literally anything else in a trukk and its a waste, hell I still think Tankbustas in a trukk isn't that great either. You just make a target that much more of a priority for lascannons and other anti-vehicle weapons. I would prioritize tankbustas every turn because killing the trukk is an 80pt hit and then the bustas take another 1/6th wounds, then i can kill the remainder with bolter fire or equivalent.

Well, if you put 12 boyz or 3 MANz on the table, they suck no matter what you do. That's why rhinos full of tactical marines suck and rhinos with berzerkers or plague grenade bomb inside work really well. A trukk does a decent job of protecting what's inside.

If you had two battalions with 6 units trukk boyz, 3 MANz missiles that were actually dangerous to your enemy, some KMK and planes, I wouldn't bet on your tank bustaz taking those lascannon shots. When I field my wagons with Thrakka+boyz in one and nobz in the other, my tankbusta trukks are the least of my opponent's concern. They'll take some missile hits over a character dreadnought in the middle of their army any day.

Maybe a stratagem that allows all models that disembarked from a transport this turn to add +1 to their attacks could help trukk boyz and MANz.

 lolman1c wrote:

 warhead01 wrote:

 lolman1c wrote:
You shouldn't have to buy two models to kake 1 model work. A tankbusta unit should be able to hold it's own geound without a trukk. The trukk shouod just increase its mobility and effectiveness.

This seems poorly thought out to me.
It's not two models it's two units.
Transported units are more or less all protected the same way as well as transported to where ever.
Saying gunned down doesn't really say anything with out more context.
What does "hold it's own" even mean.

Wow... this just sounds kinda hateful towards me for some reason. Just because I'm not very good at putting my thoughts into words doesn't mean you have to analyse a sentence like I'm a politician. Futhermore, everything I said has context in the meaning of the overall conversation going on in this thread and "hold it's own" is a common expression used by a kot of people and the other guy clearly understood it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, the reason we simply can't just have Orks working together is because a squad of about 10 tankbustas in their trukk with squigs is 300pts. You're paying 200+pts for a unit with a 6 up save and 1 wound that needs be 18" away from the enemy. So you gotta add that 80+pts to even get in range if the enemy. In the end (I play mainly 1k-1.5k games) you're looking at spending 1/3 of your points on a single unit that's an easy target. We're Orks! We should be abke to use synergy like you said but most our units cost more than the marine counterparts! Hell, in some games I watched the marine brought more units and models than the ork player because he wanted to play something other than boyz. Now you want a manz unit in a trukk? 5 of them with no upgrades is again about 300pts in a trukk. Hell, give them kill saws snd we're getting eveb higher. So you want a trukk army you're now spending 600+pts on two units that arnt boyy, can't survive outside the trukk until you get to your destination, and die to simple anti infintry weapons. At this point you might as well get 90boyz for the same price and da jumped the units in by the time the tukks make it. I want these units i paid money for to be something i want to use....

First.
No, I am sorry if you thought I was being hostile I spent some time on my reply to not come off as a jerk. That was the best I could do and.well.. Sorry.
I was readying your post full of generality and that just incited my reply, But I was trying to ask you to be more technical, I thought it was implied in my reply in the language.

As to the second part. We've talked before about how I view 'tactics" in 40K. We differ. I kinda feel bad for you if the game your playing so so one dimensional for you. No matter how poor a unit is, if it's in my list it's thre for a reason and with an idea of how to get the most out of it. And then we'll see what happens. You mention the large chunk of points, well what are you doing to get that unit to do what you want it to do for as long as you are able.? Like everything Ork one is bad 3 be much better. so 1 unit in 1 trukk, I have very low expectations that anything beyond moving will happen. using more than one of a kind changes things from can't to anything to other player has to deal with.
And again, what is the rest of your army doing?!!!
Taking things in a bubble is not very helpful. Another thing, going back to your mention of the points investment. well some units are just better in larger games. So, look for another unit that fill a roll better and for less points in a smaller game. No it doesn't fix tankbustas but it may well help your list.
Good luck.

Haha, yeah... for some unknown baffling reason the rhino is cheaper than a trukk... even before the marine codex came out! I know it's the index and all but who in the office sta there and went "yeah... that sounds okay... NEXT!"

 lolman1c wrote:
Haha, yeah... for some unknown baffling reason the rhino is cheaper than a trukk... even before the marine codex came out! I know it's the index and all but who in the office sta there and went "yeah... that sounds okay... NEXT!"

I'm not even mad about that. lol Marines suck any way.
Think about this, if the rhino costed more Marine players would nonstop be upset because of the double tax. the cost of the rhino and Nu-Marines can't even use it. They'd be up in arms probably. Likely now and if it cost more Razor backs would still be a better choice for the points.

Don't get me wrong I'd like a points drop for the trukk but have no expectations that it will or even should happen.
I think the most trukks I have had in a list has been 3 or 4 and that's worked out very well for me.
I have had low expectations from Lootas and Tankbustas so I don't tend to field them in units larger than 5 or 6. But this also lets me field more than one unit in more than one place. In or out of trukks.
MY current thinking with lootas is 10, but 3 of them will be spanners and all of this blobbed with my Mek gunz so I can return a wound ever turn. I'll give them KMB's just to have a ranged attack. Or not, doesn't matter too much either way. The only threats to them either have to be in range to hurt me and take the risks or are long ranged indirect fire. So they were in trouble any way, same same.
I'm thinking tank bustas as well, but 5 in a trukk along with some nobz. MY usual Scrumgrod likes to rush a bunch of vehicle transports at me. I tend to kill them all but it's sloppy.
Meh.

 warhead01 wrote:

 lolman1c wrote:
Haha, yeah... for some unknown baffling reason the rhino is cheaper than a trukk... even before the marine codex came out! I know it's the index and all but who in the office sta there and went "yeah... that sounds okay... NEXT!"

I'm not even mad about that. lol Marines suck any way.
Think about this, if the rhino costed more Marine players would nonstop be upset because of the double tax. the cost of the rhino and Nu-Marines can't even use it. They'd be up in arms probably. Likely now and if it cost more Razor backs would still be a better choice for the points.

Don't get me wrong I'd like a points drop for the trukk but have no expectations that it will or even should happen.
I think the most trukks I have had in a list has been 3 or 4 and that's worked out very well for me.
I have had low expectations from Lootas and Tankbustas so I don't tend to field them in units larger than 5 or 6. But this also lets me field more than one unit in more than one place. In or out of trukks.
MY current thinking with lootas is 10, but 3 of them will be spanners and all of this blobbed with my Mek gunz so I can return a wound ever turn. I'll give them KMB's just to have a ranged attack. Or not, doesn't matter too much either way. The only threats to them either have to be in range to hurt me and take the risks or are long ranged indirect fire. So they were in trouble any way, same same.
I'm thinking tank bustas as well, but 5 in a trukk along with some nobz. MY usual Scrumgrod likes to rush a bunch of vehicle transports at me. I tend to kill them all but it's sloppy.
Meh.

I mena comparing the two I am not sure how one could think a trukk should not go down in points. a Rhino could use a points drop, and a trukk should be even lower costed than said cheaper rhino. most armies have the firepower to drop a fleet of trukks in a single shooting phase. I would honestly rather see the codex increase durability and make a trukk worth the points it is now as opposed to just a cheaper trukk. But I doubt GW will do that so if they keep the profile as now they need a significant drop in points.

I don't know how I would compare the two in a meaningful; way. Probably something silly cost of vehicle + cost of transported unit vs the same from another faction. cost total vs cost total. Other than that I don't know.
So 12 boys + trukk vs 10 marines + rhino.
I don't know I think things are costed depending on the faction no depending on every faction. So GW probably thought the trukk was costed correctly enough at the time. Who knows, now they probably thing it's under costed. lol.

It really doesn't matter at all how much a rhino costs. A trukk needs to be properly costed within the context of the ork army. Anything else is nonsense.

Comparing units costs across codices has never been a useful metric.

 Jidmah wrote:
It really doesn't matter at all how much a rhino costs. A trukk needs to be properly costed within the context of the ork army. Anything else is nonsense.

Comparing units costs across codices has never been a useful metric.

Exactly this.

When a 62 pt Weirdboy exists that can just teleport units up the field instantly with virtually no risk it's not hard to see why Trukks aren't seeing much use.

If Trukks were priced well and a decent option we'd see more of them on the competitive circuit.

The two biggest problems with Orks (sans Fallback rules), are imo;

1) "Da Jump"
2) +1A for squads of 20+ Boyz

Having access to "Da Jump" limits the amount of space you have to work with for Ork trasports/movement abilities, as that'll either always be the baseline, or, if you make their movement shenanigans strong, a great addition to their abilities.

+1A for squads of 20+ boyz doesn't allow you to balance smaller squads without making larger squads that much stronger. It also creates a very binary situation - you either reduce the squad to 19 and below (say from overwatch or general shooting), in which case they will do significantly less damage; or the squad of 20+ hits your lines and gets that many more attacks.

You can't have stronger movement and access to "Da Jump", and you can't make smaller squads stronger without buffing larger squads, thanks to the +1a/20+ rule.

Everything else is just points cuts; minus the fact that they get destroyed by -1/-2 to hit modifiers.

Da Jump is happening less and less in my games of late. I bring the weird boy with da Jump but my opponent is so worried about it I get screened out deeply. The only good side to that is the units that sit around in the back no doing anything productive on the table. So trukks have been my go to. I'm still thinking about bringing a Battle Wagon in place of 2 trukk. Even though I will still need an extra trukk even still.

 Jidmah wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:
Trukkz are most assuredly the problem. Saying they aren't because Tankbustas survive for an extra turn doesn't change that fact.

Put literally anything else in a trukk and its a waste, hell I still think Tankbustas in a trukk isn't that great either. You just make a target that much more of a priority for lascannons and other anti-vehicle weapons. I would prioritize tankbustas every turn because killing the trukk is an 80pt hit and then the bustas take another 1/6th wounds, then i can kill the remainder with bolter fire or equivalent.

Well, if you put 12 boyz or 3 MANz on the table, they suck no matter what you do. That's why rhinos full of tactical marines suck and rhinos with berzerkers or plague grenade bomb inside work really well. A trukk does a decent job of protecting what's inside.

If you had two battalions with 6 units trukk boyz, 3 MANz missiles that were actually dangerous to your enemy, some KMK and planes, I wouldn't bet on your tank bustaz taking those lascannon shots. When I field my wagons with Thrakka+boyz in one and nobz in the other, my tankbusta trukks are the least of my opponent's concern. They'll take some missile hits over a character dreadnought in the middle of their army any day.

Maybe a stratagem that allows all models that disembarked from a transport this turn to add +1 to their attacks could help trukk boyz and MANz.

Well of course, you are clearly talking about last edition where trukk spam was not bad. But here's the thing, at a tournament competitive level, I didn't even like trukkz, at 30pts (35 with a ram) I thought they were too flimsy and lacked purpose so I tended to not take them and instead relied on Wagonz. So at 30pts I thought they were over priced, at 82, i haven't even bothered to field them. But in this edition, the scenario you are describing would be 10 Trukkz, 6 of boyz, 3 of manz and 1 of bustas. Those 10 trukkz cost you 820pts. the boyz cost you 432pts without upgrades The manz cost you 378 for 3 units of 3 naked, and the 1 unit of 10 bustas with 2 squigs is 190. that is 1820pts without the required HQ choice for 10 Trukkz. Now if Manz were appropriately priced, if Tankbustas were appropriately priced and if Trukkz cost 40-45pts (about where they should be) this list would have easily another 400-500pts to work with and would actually be decent if not competitive. But as it stands, I will continue to run my list with Weirdboyz and just use Da Jump because none of our transports are worth taking except as a shooting platform.

Da jump is only one use per turn though. Having 5+ fast units on the ground is completely different.

Orks vehicles shouldn't compete with da jump and in fact they don't since 1-2 transports have never been a good built for an ork list. You go heavy on transports and vehicles (or walkers) or you don't use them at all. Mixing footsloggers and vehicles should be a thing but again there would be multiple vehicles anyway in the list.

Trukk boyz aren't poor because of da jump, not only at least, they're a poor choice because other than 30-40 teleported boyz we can also make use of up to 90 stormboyz. And kommandos arriving anywhere from turn 2.

With the current state of things a 2000 points ork list that relies heavily on transports, vehicles and/or walkers should get massive points reductions (like 500ish points) other than clan bonuses, relics, stratagems, traits, etc...In fact basically 90% of the codex should be 25-50% cheaper.

the +1 attack for 20-+ models is huge for me. I prefer to play MSU, and all the army wide buffs for orks play into taking huge blobs.... None of which fit into trukks.

Thats the worst sin of the trukk design IMO, if you want to use them, you have to pay their arbitrarily high cost and lose Mob rule and +1 attack.