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Well, turn 2 kommandoes can srill support foot boyz. Wejust lost the ability to do anything turn 1

 koooaei wrote:
Well, turn 2 kommandoes can srill support foot boyz. Wejust lost the ability to do anything turn 1

Problem is by the time kommandos come enemy has moved forward their chaff so basically your kommando's will likely be having HIGHER charge roll to do than boyz who have moved 10+2d6...

So basically boyz are faster than kommando are. While costing 3 pts more per model and not getting +1A for being 20+ models. Not a good thing for kommando...

 Burnage wrote:

 Nazrak wrote:
Hm, I’m not so sure. The Tactical Reserves Rule refers to “any unit that arrives on the battlefield during a player’s first turn” – jumped units have already arrived on the battlefield before the turn begins, so I’d say it’s a little unclear whether this is an accidental loophole, or an intentional exception. Could probably do with being clarified.

They've already clarified this in the BRB's FAQ.

Q: If a unit uses a rule that removes them from the battlefield and then sets them up again, such as the Teleport Homer ability or the Gate of Infinity psychic power, does that unit count as having moved for the purposes of moving and firing Heavy weapons?
A: Yes. Treat such units as if they are arriving on the battlefield as reinforcements.

Treating them as if they're arriving as reinforcements would presumably mean no Jumping out of your deployment zone on turn 1.

As I said earlier. This would mean we could never da jump the boyz after turn 3... but we can and we do.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
But yes... GW (in their infinite wisdom as always) have made a weird mistake this time.

1. they announce this as a Beta while many places (I personally know a few) will take those rules as law and will play them... They really need to emphasis this is for play testers only. Maybe even produce a beta pdf for people to download and make notes on. Perhaps push a play testing day at local GWs where for 3 or 4 hours each Wednesday (I picked a random day) the rules are enforced and people (at the end) tell the staff what they did and did not like. The staff would then write this down and send the information to the head office.

2. Many armies are going to be effected on different levels with an overall sweeping nerf. Sometimes I think GW devs forget that they have more than just their own collections. The developer talking on the livestream mentioned how he plays GSC and that's probably why they aren't effected by these rules. He knows the race and knows something like this will damage their play style. GW needs to understand something like this won't just effect their own armies... Sure a space marine force now has to wait until turn 2 to bring in the 1 squad of terminators they might have (who are now actually more over costed in the many places that adopted these rules) but a deathwing force is pretty much dead (I mean it was already dead but not the force has being consumed for bio material). These rules don't seem like beta rules they seem like pre alpha ideas some people have sat around in a room.

As much as I love he new beat stuff and GW interacting with us they still have to maintain some professionalism. Really it should go:

The have an idea. They then send this idea to a think tank with many other ideas to throw off any would be leaks. They then get a response from those ideas and then develop upon them. At this stage they then go into internal testing with every single army (this is why GW needs a dedicated testing team not just dev testing... most game developers have this). Then they develop on the idea more and send the idea out as an alpha to external testing. Then at that point they get the feed back, develop upon the idea and finally send the idea out as a beat to the public.

Honestly, it seems like a lot of work but I've worked for many developers who do this all the time to make good games. And in the time it takes them to write the FAQ (be it 6 months or that 1 month they took to come out with the "march" FAQ) they could have done all this! People will always complain but this might make some people complain less.

tneva82 wrote:
Orks got overall hit badly by FAQ. 0-3 data sheet hurts us(multiple spearheads just died) and beta deep strike rule just killed kommandos and da jump.

We can still field 18 mek gunz, 18 big gunz, 9 dreads, 18 kanz, 45 lootas, 3 gorkanauts and 3 morkanauts. And battallions give more CPs, I don't see the issue. Maybe people that used to play the blitz brigade, like me, now have 2 useless BWs but since I converted three of them they can count as big trakks.

 Blackie wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Orks got overall hit badly by FAQ. 0-3 data sheet hurts us(multiple spearheads just died) and beta deep strike rule just killed kommandos and da jump.

We can still field 18 mek gunz, 18 big gunz, 9 dreads, 18 kanz, 45 lootas, 3 gorkanauts and 3 morkanauts. And battallions give more CPs, I don't see the issue. Maybe people that used to play the blitz brigade, like me, now have 2 useless BWs but since I converted three of them they can count as big trakks.

yeah.. this is the least of our worries. Even a bike squad can get a lot in there if you play max unit size. This really only effects the stuff with little to no unit choice.

 Blackie wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Orks got overall hit badly by FAQ. 0-3 data sheet hurts us(multiple spearheads just died) and beta deep strike rule just killed kommandos and da jump.

We can still field 18 mek gunz, 18 big gunz, 9 dreads, 18 kanz, 45 lootas, 3 gorkanauts and 3 morkanauts. And battallions give more CPs, I don't see the issue. Maybe people that used to play the blitz brigade, like me, now have 2 useless BWs but since I converted three of them they can count as big trakks.

Dreads, kanz, lootas, nauts. All useless piece of crap no player with sense will field.

Mek gunz are about only thing but that's 3 datasheet=1 spearhead. I said multiple spearheads died. One you can field. Second requires you to burn points on useless piece of junk that is more of hindrance to you.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 lolman1c wrote:

 Blackie wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Orks got overall hit badly by FAQ. 0-3 data sheet hurts us(multiple spearheads just died) and beta deep strike rule just killed kommandos and da jump.

We can still field 18 mek gunz, 18 big gunz, 9 dreads, 18 kanz, 45 lootas, 3 gorkanauts and 3 morkanauts. And battallions give more CPs, I don't see the issue. Maybe people that used to play the blitz brigade, like me, now have 2 useless BWs but since I converted three of them they can count as big trakks.

yeah.. this is the least of our worries. Even a bike squad can get a lot in there if you play max unit size. This really only effects the stuff with little to no unit choice.

We don't HAVE much of unit choice. Boyz, stormboyz, kustom mega kannon, weirdboy, warboss, big mek w/force field, dakkajet. Maybe painboy. Whoo! Such a huge list of choices! Well at least faq added chinork as semi-choice.

I don't see this as a problem because I don't play tournaments and this is specified as a tournament only rule.

 Burnage wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 Burnage wrote:

 Nazrak wrote:
Hm, I’m not so sure. The Tactical Reserves Rule refers to “any unit that arrives on the battlefield during a player’s first turn” – jumped units have already arrived on the battlefield before the turn begins, so I’d say it’s a little unclear whether this is an accidental loophole, or an intentional exception. Could probably do with being clarified.

They've already clarified this in the BRB's FAQ.

Q: If a unit uses a rule that removes them from the battlefield and then sets them up again, such as the Teleport Homer ability or the Gate of Infinity psychic power, does that unit count as having moved for the purposes of moving and firing Heavy weapons?
A: Yes. Treat such units as if they are arriving on the battlefield as reinforcements.

Treating them as if they're arriving as reinforcements would presumably mean no Jumping out of your deployment zone on turn 1.

Irrelevant since the question and hence the answer both refer to with regard to tiring heavy weapons. Also reinforcements aren't the same as tactical reserves. The rule specifically refers to units entering the battle field.

The question is about heavy weapons, but the answer seems to have a broader scope than that. Other FAQs have also clarified that abilities and powers like Da Jump can trigger stratagems like Auspex Scan which only target units being set up as if they were reinforcements, further suggesting that Da Jump's "remove and set up again" should be treated as reinforcements.

Additionally, the first line of the new Tactical Reserves rule states "Instead of being set up on the battlefield during Deployment, many units have the ability to be set up on teleportariums, in high orbit, in Reserve, etc., in order to arrive on the battlefield mid-game as reinforcements." It's not making a distinction between reinforcements and tactical reserves at all.

You're adding meaning and inflection where there is none.

The question and answer is in regard to heavy weapons firing, that is all. You can say it applies to other things but that is wrong RAW.

In addition, the new Tactical Reserves rule does make a distinction between these and other abilities as it explicitly states "when these units enter the battlefield". If you have been targeted by a psychic power you must have already been on the battlefield (as per another question in the same FAQ) so you can't by definition enter again.

There seems to be a weird culture on here of desperately trying to misunderstand the most clear of rules for either gain or just to insult the ability of gw to write rules and its really toxic as well as bizarre. Here, the RAW is abundantly clear as is the intention. If you want to purposefully misunderstand then go ahead but I suspect you'll struggle to find people to play against if this is how you act IRL.

 lolman1c wrote:
I don't see this as a problem because I don't play tournaments and this is specified as a tournament only rule.

Like the detachment max is officially "suggestion"...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

In addition, the new Tactical Reserves rule does make a distinction between these and other abilities as it explicitly states "when these units enter the battlefield". If you have been targeted by a psychic power you must have already been on the battlefield (as per another question in the same FAQ) so you can't by definition enter again.

Except you have just LEFT the battlefield. You were no longer on battlefield. What happens when unit comes to battlefield it was not? Yes that right they enter it.

tneva82 wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

In addition, the new Tactical Reserves rule does make a distinction between these and other abilities as it explicitly states "when these units enter the battlefield". If you have been targeted by a psychic power you must have already been on the battlefield (as per another question in the same FAQ) so you can't by definition enter again.

Except you have just LEFT the battlefield. You were no longer on battlefield. What happens when unit comes to battlefield it was not? Yes that right they enter it.

You haven't LEFT the battlefield, you've been relocated. You are 'considered as reinforcements' for the purposes of shooting only. Also by your argument if you enter a vehicle you magically enter the realm of "reinforcements" so are automatically destroyed after turn 3 which we know isn't true. This is so abundantly clear that I can't believe it's even up for dispute. Do any of you actually use these arguments in real life? Surely not? Surely you don't legit say to your opponent "you can't use 'da jump' to move outside your deployment zone on turn one lololol"? It must be too embarrassing when you don't have the anonymity of the internet to protect you.

Use your common sense. Has a unit that was already on the field of battle but been teleported somewhere else arriving as a "tactical reserve"? Exactly.

E - wait, my god, do you guys think that if i leave a vehicle on turn 1 I have to leave in my own deployment zone too?! Is that also 'entering' the battlefield? Lolol.

nitpicking aside I am HOPING, let me re-emphasize that, HOPING that the change to the warboss signals a MASSIVE buff/points reduction to Speed Freakz when the codex comes out, I might have to start dusting off my warbikes again. I do hope 35 warbikes and 9 deff koptas will be enough

But again, this is most likely wishful thinking since GW doesn't know how to find its rear end with either hand.

SemperMortis wrote:
nitpicking aside I am HOPING, let me re-emphasize that, HOPING that the change to the warboss signals a MASSIVE buff/points reduction to Speed Freakz when the codex comes out, I might have to start dusting off my warbikes again. I do hope 35 warbikes and 9 deff koptas will be enough

But again, this is most likely wishful thinking since GW doesn't know how to find its rear end with either hand.

Did you see the rules for those discontinued units in the IA xenos FAQ? They seemed pretty tasty and perhaps a sign of what's to come.

I'm with you, the biker boss change would be well accompanied by a change in the way warbikers and nob bikers operate.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

You haven't LEFT the battlefield, you've been relocated. You are 'considered as reinforcements' for the purposes of shooting only. Also by your argument if you enter a vehicle you magically enter the realm of "reinforcements" so are automatically destroyed after turn 3 which we know isn't true. This is so abundantly clear that I can't believe it's even up for dispute. Do any of you actually use these arguments in real life? Surely not? Surely you don't legit say to your opponent "you can't use 'da jump' to move outside your deployment zone on turn one lololol"? It must be too embarrassing when you don't have the anonymity of the internet to protect you.

You REMOVE THE UNIT from battlefield. What do you think that means? You remove the unit from battlefield but simultaneously it still is.

I remove my phone from my table. Is phone still on table?

And note I'm the one who would be using Da Jump. I just try to read rules without bias. If it hurts me tough. I can't pick up rules which benefit me and ignore rules that hinder me.

tneva82 wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

You haven't LEFT the battlefield, you've been relocated. You are 'considered as reinforcements' for the purposes of shooting only. Also by your argument if you enter a vehicle you magically enter the realm of "reinforcements" so are automatically destroyed after turn 3 which we know isn't true. This is so abundantly clear that I can't believe it's even up for dispute. Do any of you actually use these arguments in real life? Surely not? Surely you don't legit say to your opponent "you can't use 'da jump' to move outside your deployment zone on turn one lololol"? It must be too embarrassing when you don't have the anonymity of the internet to protect you.

You REMOVE THE UNIT from battlefield. What do you think that means? You remove the unit from battlefield but simultaneously it still is.

I remove my phone from my table. Is phone still on table?

And note I'm the one who would be using Da Jump. I just try to read rules without bias. If it hurts me tough. I can't pick up rules which benefit me and ignore rules that hinder me.

You REMOVE THE UNIT from the battlefield to set it up immediately somewhere else. You don't take it out of the battlefield and put it into reserves. You don't put it into reinforcements. You immediately put it somewhere else on the battlefield.

You are clearly interpreting the rules completely wrong. They couldn't be clearer. Or do you also destroy any units that are embarked on vehicles after turn 3? Again, according to your logic, you do.

tneva82 wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

You haven't LEFT the battlefield, you've been relocated. You are 'considered as reinforcements' for the purposes of shooting only. Also by your argument if you enter a vehicle you magically enter the realm of "reinforcements" so are automatically destroyed after turn 3 which we know isn't true. This is so abundantly clear that I can't believe it's even up for dispute. Do any of you actually use these arguments in real life? Surely not? Surely you don't legit say to your opponent "you can't use 'da jump' to move outside your deployment zone on turn one lololol"? It must be too embarrassing when you don't have the anonymity of the internet to protect you.

You REMOVE THE UNIT from battlefield. What do you think that means? You remove the unit from battlefield but simultaneously it still is.

I remove my phone from my table. Is phone still on table?

And note I'm the one who would be using Da Jump. I just try to read rules without bias. If it hurts me tough. I can't pick up rules which benefit me and ignore rules that hinder me.

The rule is in reference, and specifically mentions, tactical reserves. Nowhere does it say that a unit that is ALREADY deployed can't be moved on your 1st turn. As has already been mentioned, that same restriction that you are attributing to "Da Jump" would also apply to any unit that is in a transport, that means they would not be able to deploy anywhere from that vehicle EXCEPT there own deployment zone AND furthermore, that would mean you couldn't have units embarked past turn 3 because they would count as being destroyed. The wording also says "any unit that arrives on the battlefield during a player’s first turn" this means that a unit that is appearing for the first time, not a unit that has already deployed. You are assuming that Da Jump works as tactical reserves when the rules for Da Jump do not say the unit is coming in as a tactical reserve, in fact they say nothing of the sort and specify that this unit counts as having MOVED for purposes of firing heavy weapons. So the other argument that since we count as having moved for purposes of firing heavy weapons like tactical reserves is irrelevant.

 lolman1c wrote:
I don't see this as a problem because I don't play tournaments and this is specified as a tournament only rule.

That's how I look at it. Getting really tired of Tournament play infecting 40K outside of tournaments. It has and it will.

Thinking about what I would do I was only allowed 3 Kommandos mobs. I guess I would run 15, 10 and 5. 15+10 mob up on turn two when they arrive an 5 go after an objective and try to score back field objective on turn 3. So, this need other units to charge on turn one to draw open a landing spot for those Kommandos. So, Mek guns need to soften up a spot to one side of what I plan to charge to help force those enemy units to move in the direction I want them to go. Just a thought no idea really how to make that happen yet. It's good to have a plan though. I guess storm boys are back in as a better faster unit now with a Biker boss.

Not thrilled with the direction da Jump seems to be headed but I haven't used it in a few games because of screening. Don't get me wrong my weird boy has that power but hasn't had a reason to cast it. As long as the other play parks units, the wrong units hopefully, in the back... well at least they aren't doing anything productive with them.
Meh.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
You REMOVE THE UNIT from the battlefield to set it up immediately somewhere else. You don't take it out of the battlefield and put it into reserves. You don't put it into reinforcements. You immediately put it somewhere else on the battlefield.

And when you do, you treat the unit as if they are arriving on the battlefield as reinforcements, as per the FAQ. That is crystal clear.

Note that this does not mean they are destroyed if it's after turn 3. That's a rule about units in reserves. Units that relocate don't go back into reserves! But when you're placing them, you have to follow all the rules for arriving as reinforcements.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
You are clearly interpreting the rules completely wrong. They couldn't be clearer. Or do you also destroy any units that are embarked on vehicles after turn 3? Again, according to your logic, you do.

Please cite a rule that says units in transports are treated like reinforcements.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

In addition, the new Tactical Reserves rule does make a distinction between these and other abilities as it explicitly states "when these units enter the battlefield". If you have been targeted by a psychic power you must have already been on the battlefield (as per another question in the same FAQ) so you can't by definition enter again.

Too early to argue. People asked this question on facebook page and gw doesn't know the answer yet. Can be either of those.

I mean by definition of the word.. if you leave something you have to re enter it to get back there right?

"as if they are arriving on the battlefield as reinforcements"

You treat them like they are arriving as reinforcements not that they ARE reinforcements. That's my interpretation anyways, so i think using da jump and gate of infinity will still be legal turn one. Seeing how many people are having a problem with this I am sure GW will FAQ this soon(soon for GW anyways lol).

 kadeton wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
You REMOVE THE UNIT from the battlefield to set it up immediately somewhere else. You don't take it out of the battlefield and put it into reserves. You don't put it into reinforcements. You immediately put it somewhere else on the battlefield.

And when you do, you treat the unit as if they are arriving on the battlefield as reinforcements, as per the FAQ. That is crystal clear.

Note that this does not mean they are destroyed if it's after turn 3. That's a rule about units in reserves. Units that relocate don't go back into reserves! But when you're placing them, you have to follow all the rules for arriving as reinforcements.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
You are clearly interpreting the rules completely wrong. They couldn't be clearer. Or do you also destroy any units that are embarked on vehicles after turn 3? Again, according to your logic, you do.

Please cite a rule that says units in transports are treated like reinforcements.

Please cite a rule that says units that are moved elsewhere on the battlefield arrive as reinforcements for anything except firing heavy weapons?

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Please cite a rule that says units that are moved elsewhere on the battlefield arrive as reinforcements for anything except firing heavy weapons?

The question is about heavy weapons, but the answer doesn't say "treat these units as arriving from reserves for the purposes of firing heavy weapons." It says to treat them as arriving from reserves, full stop.

3 Weirdboyz max=gg Orks.

 kadeton wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Please cite a rule that says units that are moved elsewhere on the battlefield arrive as reinforcements for anything except firing heavy weapons?

The question is about heavy weapons, but the answer doesn't say "treat these units as arriving from reserves for the purposes of firing heavy weapons." It says to treat them as arriving from reserves, full stop.

Ok since you want to use that as definitive proof you are right then that means you can not use Da Jump or any other similar ability after turn 3 because you aren't allowed to use reserves after Turn 3.

 kadeton wrote:
The question is about heavy weapons, but the answer doesn't say "treat these units as arriving from reserves for the purposes of firing heavy weapons." It says to treat them as arriving from reserves, full stop.

It also doesn't say "treat these units as arriving from reserves for every other rule in the game, regardless of the topic of this question." The implication is clear, particularly when we look at every other FAQ answer. You can't just add meaning where there is none. That's not how FAQs work. If that were the case I could be like such; "well it doesn't specify that I can't punch you in the face after I successfully manifest a psychic power, so I guess I can huh?" *cracks knuckles*. You can't just make up rules and add them to things without GW specifically stating it's the case.

The rules, as we should all know, are permissive. If it gives you explicit permission to do something or treat something as something, then you do. In this case all the specific FAQ answer gives us is how to treat firing heavy weapons for units that have arrived via psychic powers. Nothing else. No other inferences can be made and to try and do so from this is wrong.

Semper man honestly this is why we can't have nice things. The Ork community is self destructive and actively wants to nerf themselves, it seems. It doesn't make any sense to me, if an opponent of mine tried to claim this bs I would start packing up. Genuinely. But here we have guys who supposedly have thousands of points of Orks desperately arguing that we have been nerfed when we haven't?! What's going on ladz?! Get on board with da Great WAAAAGGGHH!!! and stop kickin' yerself!

I can be pretty trolly sometimes but you guys saying Da Jump is DS are just insane! I believe it isn't and my boyz think it isn't so it's fine. Tbh, they need to make a rule where if you have enough boyz you can interpret the rules however you believe them.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 kadeton wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
You REMOVE THE UNIT from the battlefield to set it up immediately somewhere else. You don't take it out of the battlefield and put it into reserves. You don't put it into reinforcements. You immediately put it somewhere else on the battlefield.

And when you do, you treat the unit as if they are arriving on the battlefield as reinforcements, as per the FAQ. That is crystal clear.

Note that this does not mean they are destroyed if it's after turn 3. That's a rule about units in reserves. Units that relocate don't go back into reserves! But when you're placing them, you have to follow all the rules for arriving as reinforcements.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
You are clearly interpreting the rules completely wrong. They couldn't be clearer. Or do you also destroy any units that are embarked on vehicles after turn 3? Again, according to your logic, you do.

Please cite a rule that says units in transports are treated like reinforcements.

Please cite a rule that says units that are moved elsewhere on the battlefield arrive as reinforcements for anything except firing heavy weapons?

Auspex Scan is a Space Marine stratagem that states "Use this Stratagem immediately after your opponent sets up a unit that is arriving on the battlefield as reinforcements within 12" of one of your ADEPTUS ASTARTES Infantry units."
The Space Marine FAQ includes the following;

Q: Can the Auspex Scan Stratagem be used to shoot an enemy unit that is removed from the battlefield and then set up again, for example, when using a teleport homer?
A: Yes.

Therefore, when an enemy unit is removed from the battlefield and then set up again, they are considered to be reinforcements.

It's also worth pointing out that it may well be the case that Da Jump is thus not able to be used after turn 3 without killing the Jumped unit, as there are other situations in which you can accidentally kill the target unit - by using the Aeldari stratagem Fire and Fade on a flier, for instance.

 Burnage wrote:
Auspex Scan is a Space Marine stratagem that states "Use this Stratagem immediately after your opponent sets up a unit that is arriving on the battlefield as reinforcements within 12" of one of your ADEPTUS ASTARTES Infantry units."
The Space Marine FAQ includes the following;

Q: Can the Auspex Scan Stratagem be used to shoot an enemy unit that is removed from the battlefield and then set up again, for example, when using a teleport homer?
A: Yes.

Therefore, when an enemy unit is removed from the battlefield and then set up again, they are considered to be reinforcements.

No. No, no, no, no, no.

I've bolded the part that is wrong.

You have, like so many others, inferred something that is not in the answer from the FAQ. All the FAQ allows you to do in that instance is use Auspex Scan to fire upon units that are teleported in via a psychic power or stratagem or whatever. That's it dude. Nothing else. There is no more information from the answer and you are assuming/making things up.

If the FAQ question was such; "Are units that are removed from the battlefield and then set up again considered to be reinforcements for the purposes of 'Tactical Reserves'?" and their answer was "Yes." then I'd be in total agreement with you. As it is, that isn't the case.

E - right lets get off this topic, the thread is becoming derailed. I'll keep schtum about it, I have my thoughts and some of you have other thoughts on the matter. Let's make a new thread or simply agree to to disagree until we know either way what the ruling is.

On the changes - MagicJuggler brought up a very good point about our limit of 3 Weirdboyz now and it potentially causing us trouble.

What other units might be hurt by the max 3 datasheet rule?

My min biker squads don't like it, that's for sure. I'm guessing Kommandos and aren't happy either. KMKs can be taken in larger units right? Anything else that this jumps out? Does it give Meks more of a purpose?

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 Burnage wrote:
Auspex Scan is a Space Marine stratagem that states "Use this Stratagem immediately after your opponent sets up a unit that is arriving on the battlefield as reinforcements within 12" of one of your ADEPTUS ASTARTES Infantry units."
The Space Marine FAQ includes the following;

Q: Can the Auspex Scan Stratagem be used to shoot an enemy unit that is removed from the battlefield and then set up again, for example, when using a teleport homer?
A: Yes.

Therefore, when an enemy unit is removed from the battlefield and then set up again, they are considered to be reinforcements.

No. No, no, no, no, no.

I've bolded the part that is wrong.

You have, like so many others, inferred something that is not in the answer from the FAQ. All the FAQ allows you to do in that instance is use Auspex Scan to fire upon units that are teleported in via a psychic power or stratagem or whatever. That's it dude. Nothing else. There is no more information from the answer and you are assuming/making things up.

If the FAQ question was such; "Are units that are removed from the battlefield and then set up again considered to be reinforcements for the purposes of 'Tactical Reserves'?" and their answer was "Yes." then I'd be in total agreement with you. As it is, that isn't the case.

The initial rule reads; when Y, do Z.
The FAQ is asking; is X an example of Y?
It isn't asking "Is the initial rule actually 'when X or Y, do Z'?"
And since the answer is "yes", we can conclude that X is indeed an example of Y, and that abilities or powers which cause units to be removed and then set up again are a type of reinforcement.

If you think that doesn't follow then fair enough, but I think we'll have to agree to disagree (and roll off if we ever play a game!).

 Burnage wrote:
The initial rule reads; when Y, do Z.
The FAQ is asking; is X an example of Y?
It isn't asking "Is the initial rule actually 'when X or Y, do Z'?"
And since the answer is "yes", we can conclude that X is indeed an example of Y, and that abilities or powers which cause units to be removed and then set up again are a type of reinforcement.

If you think that doesn't follow then fair enough, but I think we'll have to agree to disagree (and roll off if we ever play a game!).

It doesn't follow because the FAQ is actually asking 'can I do Z to X?' (because X is not an example of Y).
The response is simply 'Yes'.
Again, you're adding meaning where there is none. Don't worry though, I'm sure we'll never play and soon enough it'll be FAQ'd.

In case you all missed my last edit, here it is again -
Right lets get off this topic, the thread is becoming derailed. I'll keep schtum about it, I have my thoughts and some of you have other thoughts on the matter. Let's make a new thread or simply agree to to disagree until we know either way what the ruling is.

On the changes - MagicJuggler brought up a very good point about our limit of 3 Weirdboyz now and it potentially causing us trouble.

What other units might be hurt by the max 3 datasheet rule?

My min biker squads don't like it, that's for sure. I'm guessing Kommandos and aren't happy either. KMKs can be taken in larger units right? Anything else that this jumps out? Does it give Meks more of a purpose?