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Made in us
Powerful Phoenix Lord






Eldar Guardians are indeed citizens of the Eldar Craftworld who are not currently traveling the Path of the Warrior. They are not (currently) dedicating themselves to the art of war, nor immersing themselves in the 'glory' of combat, also referred to as the 'death mask' etc.

Eldar Guardians may have very well been on the Path of the Warrior previously. Warlocks, for instance, are Eldar who are on the Path of the Seer but have traveled the Path of the Warrior before (or so they justify as of now).

The Eldar are short on citizenry, not technology, nor weapons. Guardians often operate the heavy machinery, patrol the back lines, and support the Craftworld's Aspect Warriors wherever needed. An Eldar's natural heart rate, speed, etc. means that even the average citizen donning the wargear of the Craftworld is inline with a current serving Imperial Guard soldier. They are not Volksturm. They are only 'militia' in the loosest sense of the term.

Guardians would more or less be led into battle by Warlocks, and guided by Farseers, etc.

No Craftworld would ever intentionally arm their Guardians with "rifles" that don't outrange pistols. 'Storm Guardians' are a relatively new invention (and one that's never been supported by a proper kit, just a gakky add-on sprue). Originally Guardians could take any mix of close combat, lasgun, and shuriken weapons. It would make sense - as mentioned above if a Guardian unit was fighting inside of a ship or something they might take close combat weapons. A Craftworld however, is literally a world. There are deserts, seas, forests, etc. on the actual Craftworld, so range would always be an issue like it would on normal planets.

These are not old women, old men, and children. Think more along the lines of Israel, etc. An armed and trained civilian force that's always ready to take up arms if needed. This is why the Black Guardians from Ulthwe used to actually be a real thing. Their Craftworld inexplicably being close to the Eye of Terror (and no, I have no idea why they couldn't just move the damn Craftworld...?), they took up arms so frequently they used to be the only ones to have a BS or(!) WS of 4.

Yes, you would use Guardians in a last ditch effort, or if logistics simply demanded it, but Aspect Warriors would be doing most of the heavy lifting.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/09/04 06:56:17


 
   
Made in ru
Swift Swooping Hawk




Russia, Moscow

Their Craftworld inexplicably being close to the Eye of Terror (and no, I have no idea why they couldn't just move the damn Craftworld...?)

Because they're Ulthwe, sentinels and vigils over the Eye. Makes divining ways to defeat Chaos easier. Also it makes for any other race really hard to track them down there, as by Jain Zar novel.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/09/04 09:02:44


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






8pages, so sorry if im being lazy and it was already said, but it looks like they are on the new 28mm size bases, anyone else notice or thinks this?

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Made in us
Ultramarine Master with Gauntlets of Macragge





Upstate, New York

 Amishprn86 wrote:
8pages, so sorry if im being lazy and it was already said, but it looks like they are on the new 28mm size bases, anyone else notice or thinks this?


I don’t think so, looking at that one pic. Might be wrong. Are there any other pics out there?

Edit:
Wait, 28mm? My undercafinated brain just leapt straight to 32s. It might be 28, but with scale creep it’s impossible to tell without more references.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/09/04 10:06:41


Ultramarines, 3rd Co. and friends, 12.5K+ Slowly growing 2Kish
Nevelon's Workbench: Ultramarines, Saim-Hann and other assorted oddities
 
   
Made in us
Awesome Autarch





Dallas area, TX

 Nevelon wrote:
 Amishprn86 wrote:
8pages, so sorry if im being lazy and it was already said, but it looks like they are on the new 28mm size bases, anyone else notice or thinks this?


I don’t think so, looking at that one pic. Might be wrong. Are there any other pics out there?

Edit:
Wait, 28mm? My undercafinated brain just leapt straight to 32s. It might be 28, but with scale creep it’s impossible to tell without more references.
28mm? Does GW produce those? What would be the point? That's only 1.5mm more on either side of a 25mm. That's barely noticeable

EDIT: I just copy-pasted that new Banshees photo next to a Gaurdian photo from the GW website. I adjusted the sizes so that the bases were the same width and both models look like the same scale. But when I adjust the size of the Banshee photo to match a 28 or 32mm base, the banshee looked way too big compared to the Gaurdian.
Given that, I'm 99% sure the new Banshee is still 25mm. Thank goodness. Although Exarch being on 32s could be cool

-

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/09/04 13:07:06


   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






28mm are new with many of the new warcry models.

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Made in us
Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor






Right behind you.

28mm bases got added with WarCry, it's part of how you can spot a 'Tougher' fighter easy.

It really only applies to the new Chaos Warbands.
Spoiler:

The Shadowpiercer here is on a 28mm.
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka




 Shadenuat wrote:
Their Craftworld inexplicably being close to the Eye of Terror (and no, I have no idea why they couldn't just move the damn Craftworld...?)

Because they're Ulthwe, sentinels and vigils over the Eye. Makes divining ways to defeat Chaos easier. Also it makes for any other race really hard to track them down there, as by Jain Zar novel.

But they only became that because they were stuck in the gravity of the Eye and forced to orbit it. So I still don't see why they didn't just leave and go somewhere else, it's not like other Craftworlds are easy to find.

My opinion on the shuriken weapon discussion: Why not just make avenger catapults the standard for both guardians and avengers but limit the bladestorm range for guardians? That makes the weapon itself better but shows the avengers are better at using it because they can bladestorm at any range.

tremere47-fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate, leads to triple riptide spam  
   
Made in us
Awesome Autarch





Dallas area, TX

Hmm. As pointless as it seems, if GW is now making 28mms, I would expect all new models that belong on 25mm to be updated to 28s. That's a fair compromise to putting them on 32s.

Now if we can get GW to put Pink Horrors & Bloodletters (which never should have been bumped to 32s) on the 28mms......

   
Made in gb
Enigmatic Sorcerer of Chaos





Usually, the more 'special' forces are used for CQC situations, so the Avengers should probably have a shorter range specialisation.

I would probably update all shuricats to 18" or 24" and then let avengers fire another shot or fire twice at shorter ranges.

 
   
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Swift Swooping Hawk




Russia, Moscow

https://www.warhammer-community.com/psychic-awakening/

Phoenix Rising

The ancient and proud Aeldari race is split into various factions. The stoic and noble Asuryani live their lives adrift on planet-sized Craftworlds. The depraved Drukhari venture forth from the dark metropolis of Commorragh to raid and pillage. The mysterious Harlequins travel the galaxy according to their unfathomable whims via the webway. And the newly formed Ynnari, comprised of members from all walks of Aeldari life, are united in the desire to awaken Ynnead, god of the dead.

The Aeldari are a psychically sensitive race, and the fragile balance between these disparate cultures has been disturbed by the Psychic Awakening. These factions have become embroiled in a full-scale internecine war for the future of their people.

Ancient divisions yawn ever wider, the complex fabric of alliances and uneasy truces unravels, and self-righteous leaders on all sides attempt to rally support for their causes.
   
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Regular Dakkanaut





One guy over on facebook point out that Asuryan the missing/presumed dead god of the Eldar is also known as the Phoenix king. Also at the end of Valedor the Flame of Asuryan relit itself.. and when Jes was talking about how they designed the Yncarne he said they thought what if there were avatars of other gods, not just Khaine..
Its probably just new model of a phoenix lord but I thought that was an interesting angle.. the Eldar gods start to return in some form... maybe even as avatars .. It would have a bit more weight to the fate of the race than just the Phoenix Lords [who are awesome but the return of eldar gods who have been missing would be a bit more of a game changer. The Phoenix Lords , die/go missing/return seemingly all the time..

And yes I am getting stupidly excited [and probably over optimistic..] . Anyway they said further reveals on Monday...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/09/06 20:37:29


 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






and self-righteous leaders on all sides attempt to rally support for their causes.



Drukhari


Really, GW?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 silverstu wrote:
One guy over on facebook point out that Asuryan the missing/presumed dead god of the Eldar is also known as the Phoenix king. Also at the end of Valedor the Flame of Asuryan relit itself.. and when Jes was talking about how they designed the Yncarne he said they thought what if there were avatars of other gods, not just Khaine..
Its probably just new model of a phoenix lord but I thought that was an interesting angle.. the Eldar gods start to return in some form... maybe even as avatars .. It would have a bit more weight to the fate of the race than just the Phoenix Lords [who are awesome but the return of eldar gods who have been missing would be a bit more of a game changer. The Phoenix Lords , die/go missing/return seemingly all the time..

And yes I am getting stupidly excited [and probably over optimistic..] . Anyway they said further reveals on Monday...

According to some lore, Asurmen was a champion of Asuryan before the Fall.

As for Asuryan going "missing", he's about as missing as the fish I ate last night. Some disgusting hateful cretin devoured him. That's not the same as "We don't know where he is".

But (1), Asuryan being all Phoenixy is a thing, so a rebirth is possible. And (2), if Slanesh can be so active before he/she was born/created, surely Asuryan's court could be active after they died/were destroyed.

Except Morag-Hai, who's been hiding out on Terra since The Fall (this last line is a reference to a fun little crackpot theory that the Emperor is Morag-Hai in hiding).

(Also, Ycarne isn't Ynead being "reborn" in the same sense as the other Eldar gods - Ynead did not exist previously.)

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/09/06 21:02:29


 
   
Made in ru
Swift Swooping Hawk




Russia, Moscow

 silverstu wrote:
One guy over on facebook point out that Asuryan the missing/presumed dead god of the Eldar is also known as the Phoenix king

Also Yvraine (risen from the dead, Word of the Phoenix); Fulgrim - Palatine Phoenix.

Eldrad vs. Fulgrim *pikachu face jpg*

(It's probably Jain Zar and her new plastic sisters and then another faction will get a reveal tho)

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/09/06 21:06:38


 
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka




Asurmen was definitely not a champion of anything pre Fall.

The idea of a civil war seems odd. Everyone is in a worse position after Gathering Storm than before except the Ynnari who just didn't exist. So why start a civil war when you're weakened unless it's the Ynnari starting it but that would be against their whole unity vibe.

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Because grimdark.
   
Made in fi
Chaplain with Hate to Spare






pm713 wrote:
Asurmen was definitely not a champion of anything pre Fall.

The idea of a civil war seems odd. Everyone is in a worse position after Gathering Storm than before except the Ynnari who just didn't exist. So why start a civil war when you're weakened unless it's the Ynnari starting it but that would be against their whole unity vibe.

Different Eldar factions or ineed different craftworlds fighting is not civil war, they're not one nation. And this sort of thing happens all the time. Also, I'm sure the Ynnari would create all sorts of tensions, it could be a religious conflict.

Only the insane have strength enough to prosper. Only those who prosper may truly judge what is sane. 
   
Made in us
Powerful Phoenix Lord






Perhaps they realized that the Ynnari storyline is rather dull/silly...as is the general "all Eldar should be friends" vibe. That goes against more or less everything when you're developing an enduring setting for a wargame. Those decisions should be made at the player level when they're designing a unique storyline for their custom craftworld, etc.

 
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka




UK

The other issue is that Ynnari actually highlights how bad off the Craftworld side is in terms of models. It really shows up how out of date those old plastic guardians are; whilst also shows up the problem of finecast aspect warriors. Sure the vehicles and warlocks are fine; but the rest - yeah - the almost entire rest of the Craftworld force is very out of date.

So you're trying to push a united soup force, whilst a the same time only having around half of its options actually being modern models.

A Blog in Miniature - now featuring reviews of many new Black Library books (latest Novellas) 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





pm713 wrote:
Asurmen was definitely not a champion of anything pre Fall.

According to most fluff. But Crystal Sons of Asuryan fluff has the original Crystal Sons being beings Asuryan crafted and put under Asurmen's leadership, long before the fall. Which, of course, conflicts a lot of other fluff. Hence the qualifier.
   
Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut




Bharring wrote:
pm713 wrote:
Asurmen was definitely not a champion of anything pre Fall.

According to most fluff. But Crystal Sons of Asuryan fluff has the original Crystal Sons being beings Asuryan crafted and put under Asurmen's leadership, long before the fall. Which, of course, conflicts a lot of other fluff. Hence the qualifier.


Yes that is a big fluff conflict which I noted as well.

I think the only way around that short of totally discarding the Crystal Sons fluff is to say Asurmen was the name/title of an old champion of Asuryan from myth. Iliathin then took up that name and became the modern Asurmen Phoenix Lord.

Now I actually don't mind Eldar internecine religious dispute/conflict. It certainly would be a development in the otherwise static Eldar background. The Eldar are not a unified bloc and this is an opportunity to add more nuance and depth to them.
Basically all the Eldar kindreds think their way of life is the best and the way to survive.
Ynnari obviously want to awaken Ynnead.
Dark Eldar want to continue their soul draining.
Craftworlders believe in the superiority of the Path and think Ynnead is a false hope or even if they do believe in Ynnead, think the Ynnari are mistaken in trying to prematurely awaken Ynnead.
Harlequins have their own plans and try to enact the Laughing God's final act, that supposedly will trick Slaanesh into saving the Eldar instead of destroying them.
Exodites follow their own way of life. Like the Dark Eldar they seem to just want to continue their status quo.
Corsairs just want to have fun and exist between all the major factions.

Unlike much of the Imperium, Eldar actually can transition between these factions, which is why their conflict is also one of ideology and persuasion as much as it is of fighting. We have seen several kinds of transitions in the Black Library Eldar novels. We have seen Craftworlders give in to their desires and become Corsairs then Dark Eldar. We have seen a Dark Eldar turn to seek balance and become Craftworlder. We have seen one from an Exodite background become a Dark Eldar Incubus. Harlequins are described as recruiting from all the different Eldar kindreds, and similarly for Corsairs. The only transition we haven't seen is anyone becoming an Exodite.

The location of "Phoenix Rising" on that map suggests this is something to do with Iyanden. So maybe it is less about Asuryan and more about Iyanden trying for a turnaround in its fortunes.

This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2019/09/06 22:23:32


 
   
Made in au
Regular Dakkanaut





I have posted in the past that I think the Phoenix lords are ripe to become avatars of the gods - ascending to daemon Princedom effectively.


Each one can very easily represent a non khaine god and they've been collecting their own Infinity circuits for 10000 years so they are cosmologically in the same realm as the yncarne, chaos gods etc.


IMO an epic finale for the rhana dandra is that they ascend as the new pantheon (a more warlike pantheon...) And the "end of the Eldar" is actually the end of this "age" or "cycle" of the Eldar and the start of an entirely new existence with a new pantheon.

Plus, having 6 avatars to choose from would be really cool

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/09/06 23:18:50


 
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka




 Crimson wrote:
pm713 wrote:
Asurmen was definitely not a champion of anything pre Fall.

The idea of a civil war seems odd. Everyone is in a worse position after Gathering Storm than before except the Ynnari who just didn't exist. So why start a civil war when you're weakened unless it's the Ynnari starting it but that would be against their whole unity vibe.

Different Eldar factions or ineed different craftworlds fighting is not civil war, they're not one nation. And this sort of thing happens all the time. Also, I'm sure the Ynnari would create all sorts of tensions, it could be a religious conflict.

They literally call it a civil war.

"he Aeldari are a psychically sensitive race, and the fragile balance between these disparate cultures has been disturbed by the Psychic Awakening. These factions have become embroiled in a full-scale internecine war for the future of their people"

tremere47-fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate, leads to triple riptide spam  
   
Made in fi
Chaplain with Hate to Spare






At least in that quote they didn't.

Only the insane have strength enough to prosper. Only those who prosper may truly judge what is sane. 
   
Made in us
Powerful Phoenix Lord






Yeah internecine is more "within a group" kind of wording. I also laughed at their use of "the fragile balance between these disparate cultures...".

The Ynnari storyline is so abysmal.

 
   
Made in ca
Courageous Space Marine Captain





 Elbows wrote:
Yeah internecine is more "within a group" kind of wording. I also laughed at their use of "the fragile balance between these disparate cultures...".

The Ynnari storyline is so abysmal.


not sure it has anything to do with the Ynnari. this sounds like something has altered the balance of power among the eldar, and that inevitably leads to conflcit as various intreasts jocky to take advantage of it

Ultimately the power of an Inquisitor extends as far as he can make it extend 
   
Made in gb
Wicked Warp Spider






My money is on them revisiting Iyanden "supplement" idea.
Someone pointed out the whole map thing seems to be around the same area so why not eh?

I would love some wraiths as troops personaly
Also, those apocalypse wraith box sets wont sell themselves. lol

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AngryAngel80 wrote:
I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "
 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





The only (Eldar) faction that wouldn't really fight itself currently would be Ynnari. Which they could fix easily. "Yvraine is not the ONE TRUE LEADER"? "We need Ynead to come to us in his full strength; these fools are trying to wake him *prematurely*!"? "We must only consume our bretherens' souls when absolutely necessary; those fools are growing fat on devouring hour Honored Dead!". There are plenty of plot points that could lead Ynnari to war amongst themselves, but it doesn't feel like Ynnari fluff is headed in that direction. I'm sure it'll change.

Of the remaining subfactions, CWE are the least likely to fight amongst themselves, but it certainly happens. Jain Zar won't be out for Asurmen's blood, but Biel Tan can certainly come to blows with Iyanden (or any other craftworld). I feel like Uthwe is the least likely, but even they would. On top of political concerns, there are also prophesies - CWE can be made to do anything by the skeins of fate.

(Side note: this is why I'd rather play my Marines or Harlies when playing against Craftworlders - my Uthwe force would rather disengage. Sure, Uthwe sometimes would fight, but it always feels wrong to me.)

Harliquens are unlikely to have a civil war; they're lead by a literal god literally in the (god-)flesh, physically present (in the webway not the Materium/Immaterium, though). So there's no "My understanding of Him varies from yours!" or poliitical strife. But they're Harliquens - their acts must be carried out. And those acts include actual violence upon eachother at times.

Exodites being at war with eachother is natural. Maybe some worlds are peaceful, but I'm sure other worlds of theirs are at war even with themselves more often than not.

Drukari can't have a "civil war" really - because being at war with eachother is their natural state. They aren't truly a unified faction. So them not fighting eachother is more notable than them fighting eachother.

Corsairs would obviously fight, too. When you're too much of an edgelord to stay on the Amish Worldships, you're too much of an edgelord not to fight eachother. Fighting is what they love.

Crone Worlders? They're basically demons. Of course they'll fight eachother.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




Totally not up on the fluff but can't good'ol Eldrad be cheesed off with someone for messing up his carefully laid plans? Like "85" on Alien3!

"WAIT FOR THE ****ING SIGNAL!!!"

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https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/09/09/psychic-awakening-the-first-prophecygw-homepage-post-4/


New info is up, Bashees Exarch can be Str 6 now with 3D

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/09/09 16:12:48


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