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tag8833 wrote:

 Frozocrone wrote:
For 1850 stuff, yeah it's a bummer. Reecius only just managed to fit it in and that was by skimping out on 'eavy armour for his Trukk Boyz (big no no in my book).

If the boyz are fearless you definitely don't want to pay for EA. In normal games, I have never really found it to be worth it. Better to take more boyz than try to upgrade them.

I disagree. That used to be my mentality, but I think it's largely who you're going up against. If you're going up against someone like Eldar or Tau who don't really care about armor saves then, yeah, leave it at home. But I've found it works decently against Guard, and it does wonders against MEQ armies, largely because their standard weapons have a surprising lack of AP4 or lower. AP4 also helps a lot against flamers, which a lot of people will take if they know you're running a boyz heavy list. But the main reason is it will also help you wonders in CC with MEQ armies, because MEQ armies are a lot tougher to take down in CC than Eldar or Tau, which is another reason not to bother with 'eavy armor when facing those two. I also always run eavy armor on any squad I put in any vehicle, even if it's a Battlewagon. Those explosions hurt a hell of a lot with just a 6+ t-shirt save. My most recent battle with a Space Wolves army went incredibly well because of those saves. A mob of 20 boyz with a warboss, eavy armor, and a 5+ FNP from a painboy is a pretty stubborn force to take down, at least for MEQs. Granted, I don't bother putting eavy armor on shootas, as I tend to keep those away from CC, and most people prioritize choppas anyway because they're closer.

That being said, if you're playing against Eldar or Tau with orks you might as well take whatever you want because the only way you're going to win is if Gork and Mork themselves decide to bless your dice that day.

These days i feel even boyz need a price cut. They literally do nothing unless brought in massive numbers, which devours our points and still die in droves.

And im usually against 'eavy armor because thats 10pts per boy for a save you probably wont get. Majority of the firepower in almost every list is AP4 or better.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
These days i feel even boyz need a price cut. They literally do nothing unless brought in massive numbers, which devours our points and still die in droves.

And im usually against 'eavy armor because thats 10pts per boy for a save you probably wont get. Majority of the firepower in almost every list is AP4 or better.

Again, it depends on the army. But I will concede that 'eavy armor is always a last add on thing when building a list. It's not so much "I need to make room for 'eavy armor" as it is "I have an 80 point hole in this list, why not add some armor?"

I agree vineheart. I prefer to footslog just because that's what I like but there are just so many times where you don't even make it across the table to get into assault. Not with all the firepower out there nowadays.

I have a question. Everywhere I read says that if you take Ghaz in the new Orkcurion, how does he make the entire army Fearless when he Waagh's? I can't seem to find the right rule combination that says this.

Thanks!

saidinwg wrote:
I have a question. Everywhere I read says that if you take Ghaz in the new Orkcurion, how does he make the entire army Fearless when he Waagh's? I can't seem to find the right rule combination that says this.

Thanks!

His stock warlord trait, Prophet of the WAAAGH!, has a secondary clause where a Warlord that already has WAAAGH! built in instead gives fearless to all friendly Ork models with the 'Ere We Go! special rule.

saidinwg wrote:
I have a question. Everywhere I read says that if you take Ghaz in the new Orkcurion, how does he make the entire army Fearless when he Waagh's? I can't seem to find the right rule combination that says this.

Thanks!

Ghaz has a preset warlord trait that gives his waaagh fearless
His personal special rule is a 2+ invul when he waaaghs and mega armour in his unit can run even though they are slow and purposeful.
This makes his waagh great.

Yeah, having a T5 model with a 2++ save, stacked with fearless is pretty damn good. I'm going to bet, despite the orkurion being rather poor, a lot of people are going to run Ghazzy in it due to the Waaagh! first turn special rule.

gungo wrote:

saidinwg wrote:
I have a question. Everywhere I read says that if you take Ghaz in the new Orkcurion, how does he make the entire army Fearless when he Waagh's? I can't seem to find the right rule combination that says this.

Thanks!

Ghaz has a preset warlord trait that gives his waaagh fearless
His personal special rule is a 2+ invul when he waaaghs and mega armour in his unit can run even though they are slow and purposeful.
This makes his waagh great.

You rock sir... I was looking forever trying to figure it out.

the perma ghazzy waagh makes the council actually good. I just wish we werent required to take 6 bleepin units of boyz because you just cannot give them all wheelz if you take the council unless you start saccing PK nobz.

Course the moment you face D weapons or flier spam, once again we have major issues. Not going to have a single answer to any AV11+ fliers and any D result of 6 ignores ghazzy's invul and any LoS'd D hits will splat a boss. Could take a boss with Supa Cybork to LoS onto for such an occation, but course thats pointless if its a 3 on a D3 or he rolled a 6 on the chart in the first place.

I would personally run the council with a bass kn MA with da super cybork and another with da lucky stikk. Ghazzy goes up front and then look out sirs small arms fire to da lucky stikk. S D goes to the nob behind him on a 6 anything else ghazzy tanks. The super cybork covers another flank from any big and scary shooting while the big mek has a MFF. Sounds interesting and fairly decent.

 cranect wrote:
I would personally run the council with a bass kn MA with da super cybork and another with da lucky stikk. Ghazzy goes up front and then look out sirs small arms fire to da lucky stikk. S D goes to the nob behind him on a 6 anything else ghazzy tanks. The super cybork covers another flank from any big and scary shooting while the big mek has a MFF. Sounds interesting and fairly decent.

This is the idea. It is important to plan positioning carefully, because LoS! is always to the closest model, and I believe you can't LoS! to another model to move it further back(EDIT the wound I mean).. I'm not sure having another Eternal Warrior Warboss is worth it's points but I understand it's tanky.

Ghaz on point
Warboss in MA with DLS standing behind him.
Big Mek in MA with MFF standing behind that
Nobz behind him
Mad Dok and Spareboss in the back (I keep boss#2 rather plain for the purpose of getting points for a decent auxillary).

Some other thoughts I've had while designing this list;
-The warband has a Warboss too, it's really nice to make take him on a bike, and make the small nob squad in that formation take warbikes, just gives you a good flanking unit.
-Every Boy squad you promote nob+klaw in costs another 35-45 points. Over 6 squads of Boyz, I find that to be around 200 points, which almost gets two squads of Tankbustas in trukks. Something to consider, especially since nothing else except council is gonna soak up fire. Really, remember that every boy you put out there is fearless so long as Ghaz'gul is alive, so shove those gitz out there and force opponents to shoot it all off the board.

I wasn't thinking so much a line as ghazzy up front with 1-2 nobs and da lucky stikk boss the same distance from him as each other.

I wouldn't worry about supa cybork, just let a single mob LoS the entire str d hit.
And honestly ghaz taking a str d hit isn't horrible he will most likely survive. It's just a d3 normally and he has 4 wounds. A 6 though will kill him outright.

But yes LoS on a Lukky stick warboss is great to absorb all non ap2 Fire. My only problem with this is it's an all in one basket approach and it's nicer to have two beatstick units instead of one.

Ghaz is durable enough by himself to not need any DLS boss absorbing his hits. Ghaz will always have (except for str d and remove from game effects) 2++, followed by 5+fnp (give mad doc a runt for a reroll), and always take at max 1 wound with eternal warrior from str10, Insta death or force weapons because of eternal warrior on a t5 model. Anything worse such as a stomp or str d hit just 2+ LoS on a disposable nob.

However as stated this is a lot of points and Orks need a codex revamp with an across the board cost reduction to make the great waaagh band a viable 1850 list.

A lot of the talk has been how to give all the orks fearless with a multiple Waagh. Ghuzgul guarantees it but what is the chance for a Warboss to get that warlord trait - at least 11/36 because of the reroll - can we do better with da finking cap?

Nope da kap doesn't help.

We just have to face ~ 2/3th of the time to play a sucky army

tag8833 wrote:

 Frozocrone wrote:
For 1850 stuff, yeah it's a bummer. Reecius only just managed to fit it in and that was by skimping out on 'eavy armour for his Trukk Boyz (big no no in my book).

If the boyz are fearless you definitely don't want to pay for EA. In normal games, I have never really found it to be worth it. Better to take more boyz than try to upgrade them.

Is there a chance that Fearless boyz don't even need a Nob? Maybe we could take a traditionally good squad:
10 Boyz + Nob (PK, BP) in a Trukk (Ram)
and change it to:
10 Boyz (9 Shootas, 1 Big Shoota) in a Trukk (Ram)

That saves 26 points per squad, and changes the purpose of the boyz somewhat, but might work in an Orcurion with a Ghazstar.

The problem with not taking the nob is now you don't have a power klaw in the unit. If we had more reliable anti-tank units, you could get away with it. Also you need the nob for mob rule. Since 2/3 results require you to have a character in the unit. Now if you are fearless that's great, but now you have to take the waagh council and if ghazghkul ever dies, the boyz units will fold with out the nob. Personally, I'd still take them.

Not taking a nob =>All you attacks are now S3 attacks YAY

 cranect wrote:
I agree vineheart. I prefer to footslog just because that's what I like but there are just so many times where you don't even make it across the table to get into assault. Not with all the firepower out there nowadays.

I don't get how this is an issue for anyone these days - are you not playing maelstrom?

You get to place 3 of the objectives and half the cards are to grab objectives, so....how are peoples footsloggers not getting to fight anything? Mine have no problem with this.

In maelstrom your opponent cannot simply sit on his board edge.

 chaosmarauder wrote:
In maelstrom your opponent cannot simply sit on his board edge.

He can if he is counting on tabling you.

For the most part, thats how Tau play maelstrom. They cannot contest objectives because their melee is so bad, even ghostkeels really cant.

Go against a Tau player, expect him to hang at his edge for 2-3 turns minimum. He wont start moving forward until you've lost a large chunk of your army, or at least the main melee threat (bikers)

At this point I'm ready to go Double CAD with 6 units of Mek Gunz. A unit of Lobbas and Traktor Kannonz each and 4 units of KMK's. Deploy them on the edge of the DZ and lob Str 8 AP 2 mini-pies at the opponent. Screen with required Troop grots.

Trying to figure out if the best counter-assault unit would be Bikerz or BullyBoyz.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
For the most part, thats how Tau play maelstrom. They cannot contest objectives because their melee is so bad, even ghostkeels really cant.

Go against a Tau player, expect him to hang at his edge for 2-3 turns minimum. He wont start moving forward until you've lost a large chunk of your army, or at least the main melee threat (bikers)

I dunno, I guess its because we play with a good spread of terrain - imperial sector rune on each 1/6th and several hills about 3" tall. And most of the ruins are LOS block at level 1.

And somehow night fighting is always rolled which helps too.

Ya my night fighting luck is none. And there is a lot of tau and admech and such. So if its dawn of war deployment I might make it into combat but if it is hammer and anvil they will sit at max range and pick off the front 2-3 rows of guys. Ya it just doesn't work at all around here. We do play maelstrom but when your that slow it doesn't really matter. Plus against tau if you somehow make it close enough they obliterate you with the overwatch at least in my experience. So around here footslogging is a terrible plan but its my preferred playstyle since I don't really like speed freaks.

 cranect wrote:
Ya my night fighting luck is none. And there is a lot of tau and admech and such. So if its dawn of war deployment I might make it into combat but if it is hammer and anvil they will sit at max range and pick off the front 2-3 rows of guys. Ya it just doesn't work at all around here. We do play maelstrom but when your that slow it doesn't really matter. Plus against tau if you somehow make it close enough they obliterate you with the overwatch at least in my experience. So around here footslogging is a terrible plan but its my preferred playstyle since I don't really like speed freaks.

My favorite way to footslog that actually seems to work not too bad is a lucky stick MA warboss at the front of 30 shoota boyz (3 with big shootas - i know rockits are better but whatever), nob with bosspole+klaw and a painboy.

This unit clocks in around 410 points but is always brutal and survivable

 cranect wrote:
I don't really like speed freaks.

Well, look at it from another view.
Do you like mad max?
If so then PUT YOUR BOYZ IN TRUKK!
I don't fault your love for tides of orks, it's a cool aesthetics. But when compared to meta and fluff if your not fast then your left in the dust.

geargutz wrote:

 cranect wrote:
I don't really like speed freaks.

Well, look at it from another view.
Do you like mad max?
If so then PUT YOUR BOYZ IN TRUKK!
I don't fault your love for tides of orks, it's a cool aesthetics. But when compared to meta and fluff if your not fast then your left in the dust.

Or you could make a MANz missile. Put three in a trukk and get them to the front of the battlefield as fast as you can.

Couple thoughts of the day:

Manz missile...why not just do Nob missile, same idea but just heavy armor - cheaper = more. Maybe 1 klaw and 2 big choppa

Council of the Waaagh

Playing in battlescribe and something hilarious came to mind - what if you max the number of nobx and give them all heavy armor and big choppas. Give the big mek mega armor and a killsaw, give the other 2 warbosses mega armor and 1 a lucky stikk.

Use the lucky stikk and ghaz to tank for the unit (big fire onto ghaz for 2++ small arms fire onto lucky stikk for 2+ reroll)

So the unit is like:

Ghaz
BigMek with MA and killsaw
MA Warboss with lucky stikk
MA Warboss
Grotsnik
10 Nobs with heavy armor and big choppas

I think you can fit this in a battlewagon

I'm so trying this, they will rule the middle of the board and anything they multi assault will die

Edit - and yes taking it in a waaagh band for every turn waaagh.

 chaosmarauder wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
For the most part, thats how Tau play maelstrom. They cannot contest objectives because their melee is so bad, even ghostkeels really cant.

Go against a Tau player, expect him to hang at his edge for 2-3 turns minimum. He wont start moving forward until you've lost a large chunk of your army, or at least the main melee threat (bikers)

I dunno, I guess its because we play with a good spread of terrain - imperial sector rune on each 1/6th and several hills about 3" tall. And most of the ruins are LOS block at level 1.

And somehow night fighting is always rolled which helps too.

Having good LoS blocking terrain is a must. Its one thing i dont like about my FLGS is theres a very sparce selection of tall enough terrain to hide more than a few models at once, unless we grab the few that are just too big and are annoying to play with lol.
Nightfighting seems to always be a thing for me too. Though, as a Tau player, i dont care since my vehicles and suits ignore it anyway. My orks love it when that happens and i am running warbikers... 2+ jinks turn 1 ftw!

Nobz missile isnt really cheaper than a MANz missile.
106
3 Nobz w/ 2 BC 1PK and 1BP and 'eavy armor = 106pts.
Trukk w/ ram = 35pts
Total: 141pts

MANz missile w/ 1 Killsaw and BP = 135pts
Trukk w/ ram = 35pts
Total: 170pts.

Only a 29pt difference for a HUGE offensive and defensive difference. 2 PKs + 1 Killsaw will murder any vehicle they face while a single PK can flop alot of the time. 2+ armor lets them shrug off a lot of attacks, while 4+ armor almost never DOESNT get pen'd.

I just got my hand on the IA8 and was looking through it. The gu wagons seem quite interresting to bring many big lobbas, but they haven't been updated in the 6th edition dread mob. Could I still use them?