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Having read loads of 40k related stories I've started to wonder about the whole mythos of the Emperor within the 40k universe. The question I have about him, is he an actual god within the 40k universe? Do you think that GW portray him as a real God, or some kind of superstitous belief? If you were a character in the 40k universe and you prayed to him, is he likely to answer your prayers and provide a miracle?

Powerful psyker crippled and reliant on other psykers to survive.

So, Vampire.

Isn't that a Star Trek answer? You meet a new race of super powered aliens, that have god like powers, but in the end you find their powers aren't that godlike, just magnified way above the norm.

First define what a god is.

I don't know about praying but if you write to the Golden Throne with a personal problem you will often get a helpful reply.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/115025.page

The Space Emperor (To use Kid Kyoto's always-amusing terminology lest we get too serious here) would have led humanity into a bright and shining age where every humanw as a powerful psychic. Probably, eventually, going into the whole 'beyond the rim' type "evolution to the next plane of existence" so popular in science fiction.

The background works best, for me, when you take this as a tenet of the setting. Despite the real world where people claiming to do this tend to be deluded or liars, int he 40k setting this was true.

Is he a god? That depends on your definition of god, really. Omniscient? No more than the Chaos Gods, really. All seem susceptible to things being hidden. Omnipotent? Not really, at least in the sense that he can be blocked by other gods.

More like the older gods of mythology that tended to be paragons of various traits and much more human in thought and deed, I guess.

There would be no point in a fictional universe in which a god was omniscient and omnipotent if said god decided to take an active role in events.

He's as much of a god as Khorne, Gork, or the Laughing God. I don't know if that answers your question, but it's something.

Oh, and He does intercede on the behalf of His people.

His power (and even his state of being) are left vague in the fluff. While some older stuff like Ian Watson's Inquisitor book have fairly vivid 9and poorly written) epictions of the Emperor as conscious and powerful, in the newer fluff more doubt is floating around.

Here are a few of the possibilities that have been floated in various fluff stories:

He may be slightly alive thanks to the Throne, and still powerful enough to puppet the entire human race to his will.

He may be a broken shell, insane but still brilliant at keeping the Imperium from falling due to his will being done through his servants.

He may be a husk that merely screams into the aether, serving as a stellar lighthouse and nothing more.

He may be dead, but as a powerful symbol he allows mankind to manifest the power that they actually hold within themselves.

He may have ascended to godhood and left his mortal form, and be fully interceding on the behalf of his people (as PP sugests above). He also might incarnate to one degree or another in worthy individuals (the Thorian view).

He may be totally dead, and the Golden Throne just a fake that allows the High Lords to run the Imperium (the Chaos renegades' view...)

He may be any of the above, but about to finally die and either leave humanity alone and helpless, or be reborn and lead mankind again, depending on which heretical Inquisitorial sect you follow.

I like the vagueness, as it makes faith and fanaticism more powerful forces in the fluff. Being definitive about his state would make his followers' struggles less interesting.

Savnock wrote:

I like the vagueness, as it makes faith and fanaticism more powerful forces in the fluff. Being definitive about his state would make his followers' struggles less interesting.

You mean, like religion?

/flamesuit on.

I'm positive that there was a bit of fluff in either the 3rd Edition rulebook or an older SM codex that said that the Space Marines saw the Emperor as a normal but powerful man and whilst they served him without question they did not revier him as a god like normal humans did who were brought up to believe that they need to pray to the "God Emperor"

Perhaps someone remembers reading the same and can post where it was. I no longer have my old codex and rulebook due to some bright spark chucking them out.

I don't think it is totally out of the question for the Emperor to come back (ie the Thorian view) for some major event. I base this off of the Fantasy storyline of Valten\Sigmar coming to help beat Archon's horde. I know this might peeve people off since it would lend to a definite story of what the Emperor really is and what he is doing. If they did bring him in this way, I wouldn't expect him to be as powerful as he was before.

hellsguardian316: You are right, I remember it saying that in one of the older codex...just not sure which one. However if you look at the Daily Rituals section, it does say "0400 Morning Prayer
Day is begun with morning prayer and contemplation within the Company Chapel, led by the Company Chaplain. The Company standard and relics are displayed and the brethren repeat their oaths of loyalty to the Chapter and the Emperor."
http://us.games-workshop.com/games/40k/spacemarines/extras/dailyrituals/dailyrituals.htm

No where in the rituals does it refer to him in any divine way.

If someone did come back and say he was the Emperor and
look he has this horrible hammer of smiting doom, do you
think everyone in the Imperium is going to believe him?

Civil War, baby. The End Times!

I think I read once in some fluff, that in the old days, he was pretty powerfull, but no god. a fact which gets back-up form the horus heresy series.
now he's being kept on a last shiver of life, using all his remaining psychic powers to keep Terra shielded from the taint of chaos. If he would die, he would be reborn again, and probably kick a lot of butt, but the moment he leaves this plane for a microsecond, the chaos gods will dance lambada trough the imperial palace.

Pariah Press wrote: He's as much of a god as Khorne, Gork, or the Laughing God. I don't know if that answers your question, but it's something.

Oh, and He does intercede on the behalf of His people.

The laughing god is actually a C'tan, not a god. to be precise he is the deciever, and thus the harlies praise the necrons...kinda funny

OK. This is a tough one, because the fluff has changed over time.

Back in the Rogue Trader days, The Emperor was a god. He was the salvation of mankind. He was the reincarnated force of thousands of good mystics and priests that realized that they could not reincarnate themselves. He was/is the most powerful psyker in the 40K fluff, and all 4 Chaos gods feared Him. It took the combined might of ALL of the Chaos gods to best Him, but only after he realised that he could not kill His son, Horus. He fought Horus, but did not use His power because he still loved His son. Once He realized that Horus could not be saved, He destroyed Horus' soul. This event only happened because the Emperor let His guard down, and Horus took advantage of it. So, the Emperor was mortally wounded because He loved His son. Even then, the Emperor did not die. The Golden Throne was designed to keep His presence with humanity. He is able to answer prayers, grant power, and destroy daemons with the power of His name.

Today, the "Emperor" is.....well.....he.....uh......We will just have to wait and see I guess. Gone is all of the fluff from one of the greatest books that GW ever published (The Realms of Chaos book with Nurgle's picture on it). Gone is the "Devine Emperor". He is no longer a "He", but a "he" after the first few HH books. The Emperor still aids his servants, like the "angel" in the Gaunt's Ghosts ministory. He still works miracles, like in the HH book where he uses a woman with no "faith" to fight a daemon. He even provides the Sisters of Battle with their "Devine" abilities. However, the Emperor was against faith, against peace, even described as "bloody" in the most recent HH book.

SOOOO.......The answer is.....no clue. Some of the fluff is great. Some of it is terrible. The Emperor used to be a force for good. Now, he might just be a force. It seems like everyone ELSE knows how to defeat Chaos, EXCEPT the most powerful psyker in HISTORY. That is, according to the HH fluff. Don't get me wrong. I love the HH books, hence my name. But, when you take away the goodness of the Emperor, so that he is more believable or marketable, you take away a HUGE piece of 40K in my mind.

That's just my $.80 worth...

I really like the way the HH books have been portraying the primarchs and the emperor so far as they all seem to take the best parts of the fluff and either embellish them or fill in the gaps that others had left out and kept us wondering about for so long. I can't wait till the book on the siege of terra comes out.

Bastirous666 wrote:

Pariah Press wrote: He's as much of a god as Khorne, Gork, or the Laughing God. I don't know if that answers your question, but it's something.

Oh, and He does intercede on the behalf of His people.

The laughing god is actually a C'tan, not a god. to be precise he is the deciever, and thus the harlies praise the necrons...kinda funny

When did they reveal that one?

malfred wrote:

Bastirous666 wrote:

Pariah Press wrote: He's as much of a god as Khorne, Gork, or the Laughing God. I don't know if that answers your question, but it's something.

Oh, and He does intercede on the behalf of His people.

The laughing god is actually a C'tan, not a god. to be precise he is the deciever, and thus the harlies praise the necrons...kinda funny

When did they reveal that one?

Probably in some "dance puppets dance" Necron fluff. Offtopic, it's the one thing that really bugs me about modern GW fluff: they need to retcon in the Necrons so they go whole hog and make them the MOST ULTIMATE OVERLORDS EVAR!111! Ruined Xenology imho... Weren't the Necrons being mechanical Tomb Kings in space awesome enough?

Why not just make the Chaos Four, The Emperor, Gork and Mork all C'Tans while we're at it?

Wolfstan wrote:Having read loads of 40k related stories I've started to wonder about the whole mythos of the Emperor within the 40k universe. The question I have about him, is he an actual god within the 40k universe? Do you think that GW portray him as a real God, or some kind of superstitous belief? If you were a character in the 40k universe and you prayed to him, is he likely to answer your prayers and provide a miracle?

If you have read the "Dune" series by Hebert, the 40K god emperor of the imperium of man is a direct reflection of the God Emperor of Dune, Leto Atreides.

i.e. a man who is so powerful in a mystical, unhuman way, that all bow down before him. Even though he is indeed a mere mortal.

Hellfury wrote:

Wolfstan wrote:Having read loads of 40k related stories I've started to wonder about the whole mythos of the Emperor within the 40k universe. The question I have about him, is he an actual god within the 40k universe? Do you think that GW portray him as a real God, or some kind of superstitous belief? If you were a character in the 40k universe and you prayed to him, is he likely to answer your prayers and provide a miracle?

If you have read the "Dune" series by Hebert, the 40K god emperor of the imperium of man is a direct reflection of the God Emperor of Dune, Leto Atreides.

i.e. a man who is so powerful in a mystical, unhuman way, that all bow down before him. Even though he is indeed a mere mortal.

*thinks about Dune for a minute*

Nope, still coming up vampire.

I still <3 Dune. Paul Muadib wasn't trapped into a Golden Throne and fed
the essences of Bene Gesserit witches, was he?

(I never got past two or three books or something. Was he?)

malfred wrote:
I still <3 Dune. Paul Muadib wasn't trapped into a Golden Throne and fed
the essences of Bene Gesserit witches, was he?

(I never got past two or three books or something. Was he?)

Naw. Too bad though, as it might've been an improvement. I still think Dune was one of the best books ever written, but the rest were a big disappointment for me.

The main problem with the Gods in the 40k universe is they all can die, which to some extent take away their godliness.

The Emperor is basicly dead already, slanesh ate most of the Eldar ones, the Ctan can eat each other, and the Chaos Gods would effectivly die if the Ctan ever do get round to shutting offf the Warp (the great work)

Also there are kinda 2 Laughing Gods-the Necron Ctan version, which is really just a nickname, and the Eldar one that lives in the webway. But I will admit that the Fluff for them does overlap a lot, which can make it tricky to work out which is which

actually the gods in 40k can't die unless all of their followers/traits disappear. thus khorne can only die when anger and brutality disappears (extinction of all animals). slaanesh is similar, and nurgle on;y dies when all life dies. tzeench can never die, and the gork and mork only die if all orks die. basically that means the gods can never die. also the emperor isn't a god yet, he's just the most powerful psyker in existence. were he to proporly die he would be reborn in the warp as the star child, the fifth chaos god if you don't count all of the old fluff gods.

malfred wrote:Paul Muadib wasn't trapped into a Golden Throne and fed
the essences of Bene Gesserit witches, was he?

No. Muadib wasnt, but his son, Leto II was.



While he did not consume them directly, trillions died so that the "Golden Path" that Muadib foresaw would come to fruition. Because of this, he was the largest parasite the known galaxy had ever seen or would ever likely see. Grist for his millennia long plan if you will.

Just like the 40K emperor of mankind supplies the astronomicon allowing for interstellar travel of more than a light year, the galaxy would likewise fall into ruin without a supply of spice for the Laansraad and schools (Bene Gesserit, Spacing guild, etc.) to consume.
[edit to add spoiler tags]

*Begins with ritualistic praise of Dan Abnett*

Horus Rising I think answers this one perfectly - the Emperor actively quashed attempts to deify him. But let's go further back! (though not as far back as Rogue Trader, I don't have those books)

Codex: Sisters of Battle (2nd Ed)
The Emperor was revered as a god by many in the Imperium, particularly those "regressive" cultures where they believed anyone coming from the stars was holy. After the Horus Heresy, the Temple of the Saviour Emperor grows until it takes over and becomes the Adeptus Ministorum.

So is the Emperor a god? We know *praises Dan Abnett* he didn't want to be considered as such. We know that the Marines do not regard him as such. And there's not really a good definition we can follow for godhood. BUT!

The Emperor has been alive for uncounted millenia. There's hints (Horus Rising again?) that he existed before the Roman Empire, and somewhere in the three shelves of GW fluff I have there's mention of the Emperor being born in ancient Egypt. So he's nigh immortal, a brilliant geneticist, a psyker of unparalleled (from a human perspective at least) power, a man of vision and oratorical skill.... Is he human?

I suppose this question should be asked within a time frame. 30th millenium? No, but maybe. 41st millenium? Yes, and if you say otherwise you can meet Inquisitor Tight Cheeks good friend and coworker, Happy the Grim.

The Emporer is not a god......yet. But wait till after Cypher kills him..... then all of the chaos gods are in trouble. And the chaos gods can die..... Though they draw power from human emotions.... they're still just the four most powerful daemons.... and thus, capable of dying.... should a big enough a holy enough hammer go upside their skulls.

If you were wondering that thing about the space marines not revering him as a god is found under the Adeptus Astartes part in the 4th ED rule book.

For example the space wolves only revere him as the only thing to best russ in a "fair" fight. (We all know the Lion kicked your ass Russ get over it.)

As for the gods, I know that the Elder gods used to be in corpreal form seeing as they fought agaisnt the Necron God (deathbrigner or something) and Khaine wounded or banished but did not kill him and thats what stopped their advance thorugh the galaxy.

There is of course a 5th Chaos God. The one that Cypher serves and interfered in the breaking of Caliban that scattered the Fallen throughout time and space.

And supposedly Eldrad is to the God Emperor as a normal human is to a battle psyker...

So my personaly theory is that currently he is a vegitable that (possibly) works through those in service to his name. Seeing as if he could speak he would still be giving orders and running the imperium. But aside from that he is pretty much a vegitable being used as a gigantic interstellar lighthouse.

Having played Chaos for so long, I've always likened him to a brain in a margarine container, but your imagery is more palatable for the masses lol

It doesn't matter on his current state, though, does it? What matters is that people BELIEVE in him.

So? If I beleived a scarab was actually the almighty creator of the 40k universe it wouldn't make it so.

Or would it? *Goes into a state of wonderingness*

well if you were an ork and got enough other orks to believe it too then yes it would be true. heck that's why the red wunz go fasta, and orky weapons/ships work for them but not anyone else, ork technology only works due to the fact that there are more orks than any other species in the universe and they have slight psyker capabilities.