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he won't kill all Chaos unless he wipes out all of Humanity-kind of rendering his title useless, and his resurection a complete waste of time

The master of manki...oh no, wait, they're all dead!

Considering a few of the Founding Chapters considered the God Emperor and exceptional man, but a man none-the-less, it would suggest that, by human standards, he was godly. However a god on-par with something like the Eldar Gods, Chaos Gods, or the C'Tan? Doubtful, as Horus managed to mortally wound him.

As far as my thinking goes, Horus was as exception Space Marine and psychic as far as Space Marines go. Could he have out-performed a Farseer on the level of Eldrad? Probably not, but he probably made every Librarian out there look silly in comparison. If the Primarchs were Uber Marines than the Emperor would have been an Super Uber Marine. I doubt any of his stats would have exceeded 6 though. Probably something along the lines of...

WS: 7
BS: 6
S: 5
T: 5
W: 4
I: 7
A: 4
Ld: 10
Sv: 2+ (4+ Invulnerable)

Add in some nasty psychic powers and I'd venture that would be a pretty accurate stat-line for the Emperor.

Marik Law wrote:Considering a few of the Founding Chapters considered the God Emperor and exceptional man, but a man none-the-less, it would suggest that, by human standards, he was godly. However a god on-par with something like the Eldar Gods, Chaos Gods, or the C'Tan? Doubtful, as Horus managed to mortally wound him.

As far as my thinking goes, Horus was as exception Space Marine and psychic as far as Space Marines go. Could he have out-performed a Farseer on the level of Eldrad? Probably not, but he probably made every Librarian out there look silly in comparison. If the Primarchs were Uber Marines than the Emperor would have been an Super Uber Marine. I doubt any of his stats would have exceeded 6 though. Probably something along the lines of...

WS: 7 => upgrade to 8
BS: 6 => upgrade to 8
S: 5 => upgrade to 7
T: 5 => upgrade to 6
W: 4 => upgrade to 6
I: 7 => stays at 7
A: 4 => upgrade to 7
Ld: 10 => max already
Sv: 2+ (4+ Invulnerable) => change to 1+ / 3+

Add in some nasty psychic powers and I'd venture that would be a pretty accurate stat-line for the Emperor.

Had to correct your stat-line

I may agree that the Emperor has no godly stats,but you should be aware of some already used stats for other creatures without
godly powers.Big E was able to win against a primarch(backed up by all ruinous powers) and has fought against Demons successfully to hold his webway-gate closed.Don't forget his anti-psi force (sisters of silence),Eldrad would be blocked and had
to fight against Big E hand-to-hand,where I doubt even the mightiest farseer could survive more than 2 secs.

Of course thats true, but any farseer worth his salt would have forseen horus and what he'd become and just not made him in the First place! or shredded his mind over the distance of the whole Galaxy-they just wouldn't need to fight Horus hand to hand

Storm Lord wrote:Of course thats true, but any farseer worth his salt would have forseen horus and what he'd become and just not made him in the First place! or shredded his mind over the distance of the whole Galaxy-they just wouldn't need to fight Horus hand to hand

The behaviour of "Ranged" interaction and secrecy didnt' serve the Eldar well.
When a farseer had the chance to rescue and warn Fulgrim he was to late,his foresight powers not helping to be at the right moment in the best position.
I think eldar got no precise view in the future (Sabotage by slaanesh?)and therefore can only guess how to choose their action.

Storm Lord wrote:Of course thats true, but any farseer worth his salt would have forseen horus and what he'd become and just not made him in the First place! or shredded his mind over the distance of the whole Galaxy-they just wouldn't need to fight Horus hand to hand

The Emperor was his own undoing. Yes, the Thousand Sons were sorcerer's, but they were sorcerer's that were still loyal to the Emperor. When they tried to warn him he didn't listen, instead he spat in their faces and sicked the Wolves on them. Also I doubt that Farseer's are that potent, they're the strongest "trained" psykers in the galaxy, also I doubt the Eldar would want to help such a xenophobic race in the first place from a fate which the Eldar probably foresaw and chose to do nothing about.

At best the Emperor was an exceptional Space Marine in combat as well as an exceptional psyker as far as humanity was concerned, that combined would have made him pretty mean, but by far not a one-man army.

@ 1hadhq: I don't agree with the T6 for the Emperor, it would suggest that he can't be mortally wounded, nor do I agree with 8/8 WS/BS (Kharn is considered a master of close combat and his WS is only 7 and A is only 5). I also seriously doubt he'd have a 1+ normal save, come on now. I'd be willing to say that his states, unmodified by most wargear (except his armor) would look like this, at best:

WS: 7
BS: 7
S: 5 ((I doubt the Emperor was able to rip Eldar and other Humans in half with his bare hands, thus I don't think he should have a S6.))
T: 5 ((Horus mortally wounded the Emperor, this being said I doubt the Emperor would have anything over a T5.))
W: 4 ((Anything above 4, to me, says that the creature isn't human or is most likely a vessel of Nurgle.))
I: 7 ((Pretty high for any human, but considering his high psychic ability it wouldn't be all to suprising to see I7 on him.))
A: 5 ((Kharn is fury and rage incarnate and he only manages to get off 5 base attacks, so I doubt the Emperor would be able to exceed five without becomming as blood-crazed as Kharn.))
Ld: 10
Sv: 2+ (4+ Invulnerable) ((Abbadon has the protection of four of the strongest warp entities in the universe, I doubt the Emperor could pull off an Invulnerable Save higher than 4+.))

These stats, combined with his psychic powers, would make him a pretty fearsome sight and would also make him fit the bill of being humanities finest without giving him Daemon, C'Tan Shell, or Avatar-esque stats.

The emporer is weak compared to PAUL ATREDIS!!! THE TRUE GOD EMPORER!!!

Actually the God Emperor of Dune Was Leto Atreides II, Not Paul, he was more of a Dark Messiah.

Marik Law wrote:

The Emperor was his own undoing. Yes, the Thousand Sons were sorcerer's, but they were sorcerer's that were still loyal to the Emperor. When they tried to warn him he didn't listen, instead he spat in their faces and sicked the Wolves on them.

Them emperor warned Magnus and had him sworn to change his ways,but his son didn't act as he had oathed.The fault of the emperor was to let Russ "on the hunt" when he should have known,that Russ was to straight forward to check if he targeted the right foe.

also I doubt the Eldar would want to help such a xenophobic race in the first place from a fate which the Eldar probably foresaw and chose to do nothing about.

The Eldar were to arrogant (as ever) and the one lonely eldar that tried to rescue the galaxy was just too slow.

At best the Emperor was an exceptional Space Marine in combat as well as an exceptional psyker as far as humanity was concerned, that combined would have made him pretty mean, but by far not a one-man army.

I have to disagree, the emperor was way better than a primarch, a primarch much better than any marine,and last but not least a
marine is better than a guardsman.
In this light,I see the emperor with not only a few stats better than a usual IC or SC of 40k.

@ 1hadhq: I don't agree with the T6 for the Emperor, it would suggest that he can't be mortally wounded, nor do I agree with 8/8 WS/BS (Kharn is considered a master of close combat and his WS is only 7 and A is only 5). I also seriously doubt he'd have a 1+ normal save, come on now.

I took his stats not "out of thin air" .The statline is really gathered after some look over actual charts of different codices.

I'd be willing to say that his states, unmodified by most wargear (except his armor) would look like this, at best:

WS: 7 don't compare a cpt to big E! Maybe his strength is modified by wargear but his dex-stat would be 8.
You should compare his fighting prowess with his achievements.Big E won against a chaos-mega-pimped Horus and I wouldn't
be sure if Kharn is better than Horus in CC.The mightiest CC monsters have a 10 (Greater demons of khorne)!
BS: 7 I gave him 8 because this only afflicts his reroll on a 1,no other bonus is given after 6 (hit on 2+)
S: 5 this value comes from our actual chart in the rulebook.I believe he should have 6 to get a 50% chance to
wound MC's
T: 5 I could give him "eternal warrior" or some wargear to prevent Instant Death,but it sound better to me if
the emperor had better T than a plaguemarine (5).
W: 4 you don't like him to have more points here than any standard HQ-choice? He just got more for his rank as
a leader of a whole race and i believe such a rare person should have more than 4! WE could discuss 6 but i don't think he
would be less than 5.The 4 is to near to normal humans,his immortality may get him a higher value.(regenerate perhaps?)

I: 7 ((Pretty high for any human, but considering his high psychic ability it wouldn't be all to suprising to see I7 on him.))
did this to make him as fast as any 100 pt HQ model.He may use some psi-power for this,I'm not sure yet
A: 5 ((Kharn is fury and rage incarnate and he only manages to get off 5 base attacks, so I doubt the Emperor would be able to exceed five without becomming as blood-crazed as Kharn.))I will answer this directly: a crazed berseker didn't
have the most attacks,he he'll produce a lot of "misses-to-hit" and noone likes to have Kharn with a low BS to cover that.
Second: I also belive that 40k has a lot of builds to max up to 10 attacks on a model, makes a uber-SC like Big E not the monster
you think.Third: Big E has a lot of expierience and may fight better than most 40k IC's (4) and I believe he got the best wargear
of every Imperialist,he may get 5 without weapons
Ld: 10
Sv: 2+ (4+ Invulnerable) ((Abbadon has the protection of four of the strongest warp entities in the universe, I doubt the Emperor could pull off an Invulnerable Save higher than 4+.)) comparing a cpt again? Don't forget the stormshield (3+)!
the emperor won't use a 4+ (iron halo,rosarius and such), his invul save is more a 3+ like the field generator produces ^^
I confess to give him of pure loyality a better armorsave than usual termies.

These stats, combined with his psychic powers, would make him a pretty fearsome sight and would also make him fit the bill of being humanities finest without giving him Daemon, C'Tan Shell, or Avatar-esque stats.

If you take the time to look into the rulebook,you will see that my statline didn't give him anything like a Demon/C'Tan or Avatar has.
He's better than most troop or elite soldiery,but has only stats between 6 and 8,where some creatures have a 10!
only MHO here

Having given him Ld 10 would ha also be Fearless, or have Marnes Calgars current ability to choose to pass or fail Morale checks-as befits a leader of the race of men? If not it could have dire consequences if he ran away from A gretchin or something.

And I have to agree with high strength for the Emperor, he could knock Primarchs out with his fists, and a low Strength doesn't do that justice. Although I doubt the Strength would matter in the end, he does appear to have a power fist in the picture of Him vs Horus. So he'll max out at S10 even if he has higher than S5 base value

Morale 10 to low? Take "fearless" to prevent players badly ?
Had not included a possible failure yet,but a special rule to show his determination to fight all enemys of mankind is a good idea

preffered enemy everybody might be a good idea for that. maybe conferring it on any units he joins over the course of the battle to show his zeal?

Storm Lord wrote:preffered enemy everybody might be a good idea for that. maybe conferring it on any units he joins over the course of the battle to show his zeal?

Normally IC or SC lose special rules if the unit they join had not this rule.
But for the emperor a rule to show the encouragement his presence gives to his followers may get around that.

Emperor: fearless.Gives any unit he joins this special rule.None shall fail in his presence!

None shall fail... die yes, but run away? not on your life. This will be a great moment when he starts suffering wounds from refusing to run from soemthing he really should run away from. Like a Chaos Titan kicking him in the head repeatedly

Storm Lord wrote:None shall fail... die yes, but run away? not on your life. This will be a great moment when he starts suffering wounds from refusing to run from soemthing he really should run away from. Like a Chaos Titan kicking him in the head repeatedly

With the emperor on their side,no traitor titan will exist long enough to reach the emperor!
His loyal forces may shred such abomination to pieces before it can react.

I would take MC as threat to him more seriously than rare warmachines.

maybe, but MC's can be torn apart by bolter fire alot easier than a Titan ever could.

Depends on your game.Titans cannot do much in CC at Apocalypse-games against non-titan models.
But you can field a lot of MC from some datasheets. With enough MC's on the table,some will reach CC even if it rains so much bolter rounds that the marines stand up to their waist in shells.
A lonely 2 or 4 attack titan may not cause the same damage as 1 or 2 Greater Demons.

true, but I was using it more as a fluff example than a hypothetical gaming reason. I know that Titans are better suited to shooting in apoc games and that MC's do better in CC, my experiance first hand with the Nightbinger proved that to me.

But as a one one one with the Emperor its the titan that would be more likely to kill him, due to its armour and void shields. Against MC's the Emp would be likely to kill them after one turn, whilst he would struggle to do the same to a titan. And if he did the resultant explosion from it (fingers crossed) would finish the wounded false god off

Storm Lord wrote: And if he did the resultant explosion from it (fingers crossed) would finish the wounded false god off

False God

As we all know,the Emperor never claimed to be a god. The worship after heresy is not his fault

But I'm really that you accept his might as similar to a titan

1hadhq wrote:

Storm Lord wrote: And if he did the resultant explosion from it (fingers crossed) would finish the wounded false god off

False God

As we all know,the Emperor never claimed to be a god. The worship after heresy is not his fault

But I'm really that you accept his might as similar to a titan

But in some ways the Heresy was his fault.

The Horus Heresy art books give an account as to exactly what the Golden Throne is/was for and why the Emperor needed to be on it.

@ Eldramesha:

You blame the emperor ? Its not his fault that his sons could be so easy turned by their captains.
Had Lorgar really strong faith in his fathers work,he never turned to chaos.But he got not lauded for his ideas and
left his father and brothers to pursiut his way in a almost evil manner.

30k: faith = 0 rationalism = 1 40k: faith = 3 rationalism = 1

chaplaingrabthar wrote:Actually the God Emperor of Dune Was Leto Atreides II, Not Paul, he was more of a Dark Messiah.

Silence!!! I am always right!

THE IMMORTAL GOD EMPEROR IS THE ONLY TRUE GOD AND IS A GOD!!!!!

ALL WHO DO NOT BELIEVE SO ARE HERETICS AND SHOULD BE BATHED IN THE PURIFYING GLORY OF HIS MOST HOLY CLEANSING PROMETHIUM!!!!

HIS REAL STATS ARE

WS:YOU CANNOT QUANTIFY A PERFECT SKILL!!!! THE EMPEROR CANNOT BE HIT BY A MERE MORTAL WS!!!!
BS:THE EMPEROR ALWAYS HITS HIS TARGET, HE HAS HIS OWN BLESSING!!!!!
S:20 (THATS RIGHT THE EMPEROR CAN INSTANT KILL EVERYTHING!!!!!! HE IS A GOD)
T:WHY BOTHER???? YOU CANNOT WOUND THE EMPEROR!!!
W:THE EMPEROR CANNOT BE KILLED, HE IS A GOD!!!! HE HAS NO ACCURATE WOUNDS VALUE FOR HE CANNOT BE WOUNDED
A:HOWEVER MANY HE NEEDS, HE IS A GOD!!!! HE CAN STRIKE ANY FOE ANY NUMBER OF TIMES!!!
I: HE HAS NO NEED FOR INITIATIVE, HE WILL STRIKE YOU BEFORE YOU ARE AWARE OF HIS PRESENCE!!!
Ld: 12 (TRY FAILING THAT ROLL YOU STUPID HERETICS)
Sv:1+/1+ INV

PSYCHIC POWERS:
BURN HERETIC: ON A SUCCESFUL PSYCHIC TEST THE EMPERORS FOES INSTANTLY IGNITE, REMOVE EVERY ENEMY MODEL WITHIN 40 FEET OF THE EMPEROR!!!!!!
I'M THE EMPEROR, feth YOU!!!!: THE EMPEROR SUMMONS HIMSELF A TOASTED CHEESE SANDWICH ON A SUCCESSFUL PSYCHIC TEST, WHY YOU ASK??? BECAUSE HE IS THE EMPEROR!!!!

IF YOU DON'T THINK THE EMPEROR LIKES TOASTED CHEESE SANDWICHES THAN YOU ARE A HERETIC (Refer to: HOLY PROMETHIUM)