A possible return of 'VOR: The Maelstrom'?...

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**Ghaz**

... from the Iron Wind Metals Forums and also mentioned on The Miniatures Page:

Balrog21 wrote:Hi All Vor fans!
Just wanted to stop in and give a little news that 'might' be on the horizon.

First, after reading the posts..Mike 'Scuzzy Nielson holds the rights to Vor still since being the creator. Electronic gaming rights I do not know.

Now, just to let you all know, I have been in contact with Scuzzy through a 3rd party artist friend, something that has been almost near impossible to do since FASA's demise. It's only taken me 3 years to accomplish this small feat. =) But on to the meat and meaning for this post.

I will remain silent as to my identity for now, but suffice to say I am president of a gaming publishing company and what I want to talk about in this post is VOR. I just wanted to post this to all the Vor fans out there, and dont really want to say too terrribly much so it wont jinx us in this venture. Remember this post is not official in any way, just a 'could be' if you will if the go ahead is given I will be back to post more news and info and make it concrete. So wish us good luck!

Our company is wanting to bring Vor back into print and production and get this great game rolling again. Our proposal has already been sent to Scuzzy and we are just waiting to hear back from him with the go ahead.

We already have a website which is not public yet as a subset of our main website, and we will open it up once we have the go ahead. It's nice, clean and loaded with all kinds of Vor goodies.

IronWind will be a MAJOR factor in Vor's success and I will be calling them this Tuesday to bounce some ideas around with them concerning the game and production ideas and issues.

Some things we are working out the details on atm concernign Vor

A: The Starter Box Set
1. We are currently in discussion on giving the buyer the choice of which two starter armies the box contains. Be it a starter force of Growlers and Pharons or Shard and Union the buyer will be able to choose which two armies (of the available 6)he/she would like to have to begin the game.
2. 4 new pieces of terrain, not the same 4 pieces but 4 different pieces.
3. An evaluation card that automatically enters the sender to win free prizes
4. Main rule book, with new revisions
5. Scenario booklet with all new scenarios
6. The good 'ole templates
7. And the always needed dice
8. A full color fold out Map of the Maelstrom itself pinpointing the areas of the Maelstrom along with insert illustrations of the known planets.

B: Comeback Kickoff
1. A massive year long Campaign Story Tournament which we will be providing in store game support, campain roster sheets, online info, and much more. This will include prizes, online recognition, showcase spotlights and much more. This may even lead to Origins and GenCon with the top 3 winners receiving cash prizes.
2. Online contest to receive free game product
3. An Online painting contest - prizes STBD
4. A New Army and Force Book! - this is still hush hush atm

C: The Future
1. Some newly added mini's - these will be the named character models from all 6 force books - The God King, Goregut, etc.
2. 4 new races and source books(this includes the new one for the initial launch), and yes, new miniatures!
3. The create your own army force rule book
4. Some resculpts on some old mini's. TBD
5. Updated Army Source Books

Whew, well that is a tidbit of what we are wanting to do with Vor.

On another note, the Mashers and Ceru will most likely be deleted from the game. The golem are still on the decision making floor so to speak. We came to this decision because no source books and very few if any actual models where even made or in production. We feel we can add new and better armies and factions to the existing line.

Now, if you have any ideas, suggestions, input concerning Vor? Please respond to this post with them! I will be sure to read everyone and address them with our designers and company heads.

Hope this wets your appetite a bit. So keep your fingers crossed!
Best,
Bal

While I would like to see a return of VOR, I'm taking this one with a massive grain of salt.

**JohnHwangDD**

Of course you need a grain of salt. Right now, they're just trying to determine if VOR still has any market interest that would make it worth reviving.

If it looks like people would spend real money on VOR, then things will probably move forward.

If not, VOR will stay dead.

Personally, I'd suggest Growlers in the basic set, as they're really distinctive, cute models.

**Ghaz**

It doesn't sound so much as a 'testing of the waters' as a 'it still might fall through' kind of thing.

**Fallen668**

Oh

yeah, oh

yeah OH

YEAH!!! My growlsers just got a happy gleam in their eyes.

**carmachu**

That ship has sailed.

They';ll have to sink real money into it to get folks back into it, they need to spend money on getting folks back in. Even the most die hard for the most part has moved on. The time for this was a while ago, but being in limbo for this long...most have forgotten.

Not to say there isnt a market, or folks will jump back in, but the reality is its a long dead game.

**Ghaz**

Well, after almost seven years it will be like a totally new game to most players, even some of the those who formerly played the game. And I know for one that if they do the 'create your own army' book that it will succeed as long as the core mechanics are sound (having never played the game).

Plus all of the Hordes Trollblood players practically have a Growler force to begin with

**malfred**

Ghaz wrote:Well, after almost seven years it will be like a totally new game to most players, even some of the those who formerly played the game. And I know for one that if they do the 'create your own army' book that it will succeed as long as the core mechanics are sound (having never played the game).

Plus all of the Hordes Trollblood players practically have a Growler force to begin with

Didn't Privateer Press's Matt Wilson work on Vor originally?

**Nurglitch**

Dang, I was about to mention that. I wonder what they'll do about that enormous Growler from back in the day - it was what, nearly 2lbs?

**mikhaila**

This is funny in a "trainload of kids hits a truckload of monkeypoop" sort of way.

I remember reading and doing an internal review for Ral Partha when they first got the rules for Vor. Really bad stuff. Fasa was quoted at one meeting as saying "We're FASA, we don't make bad games!!"

This one stunk to high heaven. They had Partha quit producing all battletech and fantasy miniatures to concentrate on VOR, and skuzzy wanted to up the print run from 10,000 to 20,000 copies. It was a sure winner after all. When Partha demanded to see the orders, they only had a couple of hundred, worldwide, from distributors.

Suddenly they were begging retailers to take it on a returnable basis. Not many takers, a lot of the sets were left when FASA bankrupted Partha with all the bills from producing the thing. Sad days. Really bad game.

**Fallen668**

Nurglitch wrote:Dang, I was about to mention that. I wonder what they'll do about that enormous Growler from back in the day - it was what, nearly 2lbs?

That would be Razorfang and his 2 pounds of awesomeness.

**JohnHwangDD**

Nurglitch wrote:Dang, I was about to mention that. I wonder what they'll do about that enormous Growler from back in the day - it was what, nearly 2lbs?

If it's less than 2 lbs, then the Empire Steam Tank has more metal.

**Fallen668**

He is over 2 lbs in wieght. I don't rememebr the ounces over 2 pounds but he most definately is over 2 from when I wieghed him on a mailing scale at my job.

**JohnHwangDD**

Hmm... Now, I wonder which one weighs more.

**Fallen668**

I'll see if i can find mine from moving currently and wiegh him again.

**mikhaila**

JohnHwangDD wrote:
Nurglitch wrote:Dang, I was about to mention that. I wonder what they'll do about that enormous Growler from back in the day - it was what, nearly 2lbs?

If it's less than 2 lbs, then the Empire Steam Tank has more metal.

Yeah, but the Growler could eat through molds ten times faster than a steamtank).

FASA designed the growlers, and took them over to Ral Partha. The head of Partha took a look at the sculpt, made comments on amount of metal, heat retention, mold life, etc. and made the suggestion of further reducing the sculpt to less pieces to increase mold life, and detail retention. He got blasted:

"We're FASA, You're Partha. We own you, you do what we say. You'll make what we want, how we want, package it how we want, and sell it for what we want to sell it for."

Buy a company that does miniatures for decades, but don't listen to their advice.

**Kid_Kyoto**

Fallen668 wrote:He is over 2 lbs in wieght. I don't rememebr the ounces over 2 pounds but he most definately is over 2 from when I wieghed him on a mailing scale at my job.

Wasn't heresy's overfiend (or whatever the big guy was called) even bigger?

On the subject at hand, never played Vor, I remember it had some passionate proponents back at the Warp. i do own it and it seemed doable, action point system, army building rules. had some clever races too, and who doesn't love growlers.

The big union suits are still my favorite power armor EVAH.

So I give this one a respectful 1 ork thumb up, assuming it happens.

**hotflungwok**

Whoa. I still have a half painted shard army sitting on my shelf. I got to play one game with them. I like the minis and love the whole 'psychotic energy beings' theme.

I live in Cincinnati, and even with Ironwind Metals right here, they're still going to have a hard time selling people on a brand new mini combat game. With 40k, Warmachine, and AT-43, the comeback is going to have to be spectacular to pull anyone in. I knew a few people who played VOR, and they moved on long ago.

**Elusive71**

I would be so stoked!

Finally releasing the "create your own army force rule book" and replacing Mashers and Ceru would be the icing.

**Savnock**

Am I the only one here who thought all the VOR minis were either fugly, strangely proportioned, or both?

Not only restarting a dead fanbase that wasn't very big in the first place, but entering a newly-saturated marketplace would make this a loooooong longshot. Hope no companies that make anything else that we love are going to pin their financial well-being on it...

**lasgunpacker**

Savnock wrote:Am I the only one here who thought all the VOR minis were either fugly, strangely proportioned, or both?

No, you are not alone. I was interested in the figures until I compared them to some blisters of 40k figures hanging nearby. Weird proportions, 34mm figures, and even larger guns? No thanks. Too bad, the neo-soviet and union stuff was pretty interesting concept wise.

I wonder if the kiddies will think of it as an AT-43 rip off?

**Elusive71**

The minis were pretty bad, but the ruleset was great.

**JohnHwangDD**

Elusive71 wrote:The minis were pretty bad, but the ruleset was great.

I wonder why Hellfury doesn't have something to say here...

**Grot 6**

Ghaz wrote:... from the Iron Wind Metals Forums and also mentioned on The Miniatures Page:

Balrog21 wrote:Hi All Vor fans!
Just wanted to stop in and give a little news that 'might' be on the horizon.

First, after reading the posts..Mike 'Scuzzy Nielson holds the rights to Vor still since being the creator. Electronic gaming rights I do not know.

Now, just to let you all know, I have been in contact with Scuzzy through a 3rd party artist friend, something that has been almost near impossible to do since FASA's demise. It's only taken me 3 years to accomplish this small feat. =) But on to the meat and meaning for this post.

I will remain silent as to my identity for now, but suffice to say I am president of a gaming publishing company and what I want to talk about in this post is VOR. I just wanted to post this to all the Vor fans out there, and dont really want to say too terrribly much so it wont jinx us in this venture. Remember this post is not official in any way, just a 'could be' if you will if the go ahead is given I will be back to post more news and info and make it concrete. So wish us good luck!

Our company is wanting to bring Vor back into print and production and get this great game rolling again. Our proposal has already been sent to Scuzzy and we are just waiting to hear back from him with the go ahead.

We already have a website which is not public yet as a subset of our main website, and we will open it up once we have the go ahead. It's nice, clean and loaded with all kinds of Vor goodies.

IronWind will be a MAJOR factor in Vor's success and I will be calling them this Tuesday to bounce some ideas around with them concerning the game and production ideas and issues.

Some things we are working out the details on atm concernign Vor

A: The Starter Box Set
1. We are currently in discussion on giving the buyer the choice of which two starter armies the box contains. Be it a starter force of Growlers and Pharons or Shard and Union the buyer will be able to choose which two armies (of the available 6)he/she would like to have to begin the game.
2. 4 new pieces of terrain, not the same 4 pieces but 4 different pieces.
3. An evaluation card that automatically enters the sender to win free prizes
4. Main rule book, with new revisions
5. Scenario booklet with all new scenarios
6. The good 'ole templates
7. And the always needed dice
8. A full color fold out Map of the Maelstrom itself pinpointing the areas of the Maelstrom along with insert illustrations of the known planets.

B: Comeback Kickoff
1. A massive year long Campaign Story Tournament which we will be providing in store game support, campain roster sheets, online info, and much more. This will include prizes, online recognition, showcase spotlights and much more. This may even lead to Origins and GenCon with the top 3 winners receiving cash prizes.
2. Online contest to receive free game product
3. An Online painting contest - prizes STBD
4. A New Army and Force Book! - this is still hush hush atm

C: The Future
1. Some newly added mini's - these will be the named character models from all 6 force books - The God King, Goregut, etc.
2. 4 new races and source books(this includes the new one for the initial launch), and yes, new miniatures!
3. The create your own army force rule book
4. Some resculpts on some old mini's. TBD
5. Updated Army Source Books

Whew, well that is a tidbit of what we are wanting to do with Vor.

On another note, the Mashers and Ceru will most likely be deleted from the game. The golem are still on the decision making floor so to speak. We came to this decision because no source books and very few if any actual models where even made or in production. We feel we can add new and better armies and factions to the existing line.

Now, if you have any ideas, suggestions, input concerning Vor? Please respond to this post with them! I will be sure to read everyone and address them with our designers and company heads.

Hope this wets your appetite a bit. So keep your fingers crossed!
Best,
Bal

While I would like to see a return of VOR, I'm taking this one with a massive grain of salt.

You can go see an !$@ load of disgruntaled SST players that might take this game back with open arms with thier 10's of thousands thrown away.
Personally, though- Balrog is around ten years too late with his news. Far better to bring back the old battletech then to drop money on this crap game.

Forget Vor, go put your money into a good zombie apocalypse miniatures game, such as with games like Last night on earth, or Zombies!!!

Heck, with what I've seen on the horizen, Superheros are the mini of the future.
Of course, if you have money to sink into that load of crap, more power to you.

**syr8766**

@Mike: thanks for some of the background. I had looked at VOR with some excitement, and was still actively playing CBT (before it was 'classic') and Shadowrun, and getting all juiced up for Earthdawn, when the curtain came crashing down on the company, and I never quite understood what happened.

On topic: while I'd love to see VOR return in some form, the reality is, as some have pointed out, that train's gone. Most VOR diehards either continue to play it or have found other rules sets (5150, No Limits, etc.) to fulfill their needs (I wouldn't be surprised if Growler figs show up in games of "Fantastic Worlds", for example). The minis were a mixed bag, with some fantastic figs (growlers, union and neosov troopers and battlesuits), and some real dogs (neosov rad troopers etc.).

VOR's fluff was weird (earth got sucked into an alternative universe where it's being slowly destroyed by a black hole? But the two last superpowers are still fighting it out? Hooo-kay then....), the rules had potential that was unfulfilled, and the figs were a mixed bag. There are a pile of new, better sci-fi/sci-fantasy games out now (AT-43, Dark Ages, the aforementioned games, All Things Zombie, Infinity, Rezolution, Urban War/Metropolis (though that game seems to have gone moribund)) that all fill that niche that VOR filled back in the day. And you can still get VOR figs from Iron Wind Metals if you've got the itch.

And really, who's going to get excited of a 'maybe'? No sir, I think we're done with that game.

Now, if someone would revisit Warzone and Chronopia (and redo some of those 90s-tacular big shoulderpad figs) then we can talk

**Elusive71**

Warzone (and I don't mean the collectable prepaint game) is on the horizon. But you didn't hear it from me.

I just want to see the VOR engine return. Overhaul the fluff, but bring back the mechanics.

**Ghaz**

Grot 6 wrote:Far better to bring back the old battletech then to drop money on this crap game.

Uh, the 'old battletech' never went away (well. maybe for a very short time).

**stecal**

I always thought the VOR minis would have been a good addition to the SST game. It would have instantly gave the 1 dimentional SST Marines vs Bugs game 3-4 new alien races to go kill.

Now they are effectively together in that place where dead games go....

**Boss Salvage**

I've got most of the VOR army books, including the main game book. Liked the army concepts myself, and had part of a NeoSov force at one point. Played some games vs my bro's growlers, though don't remember actually enjoying the game mechanics so much.

I'd still like to have a load of shard models to 'counts as' various 40k armies (most likely Eldar, the most obvious), would be fun to paint and I always liked those crystal guys.

- Salvage

**Skuzz**

I very much appreciate the feedback folks, both the good and bad stuff.

Yes VOR 2.0 is coming. The focus isnt in taking over the game industry or being filthy rich, its simply to produce a top notch wicked cool sci-fi wargame that gives the gamers a great setting and the tools to do whatever THEY want. That focus got diluted a bit under FASA's wing but that wont be an issue now thankfully. And VOR's nitch still hasnt been filled, even after 6 years. Hopefully you folks will take a look at it once it hits the shelf and see if it offers anything to you, I have a feeling it just might. And if it doesnt then no foul.

But I couldnt possibly post here without addressing this stunningly clueless post...

mikhaila wrote:
I remember reading and doing an internal review for Ral Partha when they first got the rules for Vor. Really bad stuff. Fasa was quoted at one meeting as saying "We're FASA, we don't make bad games!!" This one stunk to high heaven. They had Partha quit producing all battletech and fantasy miniatures to concentrate on VOR, and skuzzy wanted to up the print run from 10,000 to 20,000 copies. It was a sure winner after all. When Partha demanded to see the orders, they only had a couple of hundred, worldwide, from distributors. Suddenly they were begging retailers to take it on a returnable basis. Not many takers, a lot of the sets were left when FASA bankrupted Partha with all the bills from producing the thing. Sad days. Really bad game.

Gheesh where to even start. lol. First off im not sure where you got your info but its horridly incorrect.
- The small feedback I got from Partha on the VOR rules was extremely positive.
- FASA doesnt make bad games? apparently you never played he-man or grav ball.

- Skuzzy (me) never asked to up any print runs because at fasa, line developers have no say so in those matters. Nor would i want to TBH.
- A) partha couldnt demand to see anything from fasa, and B) a couple hundred orders? lol, seriously. get real. FASA did a second run of the box sets. Were you aware of that? based off my royalty checks alone i can tell you we moved over 15k boxes within a month or so from launch. Thats a substantial number considering the cash sink on those expensive boxes.
- Begging retailers? come on now. In those twilight days of FASA the owners were so preoccupied to get whizkids rolling and shut fasas doors they barely could be bothered with anything let alone actual buisness matters concerning their active lines. They basically stopped all advertising and support (internally) a good 6 months prior to closing the doors, which was right as VOR was starting to gain momentum. It really hurt the game sadly.
- I have no info on the financial matters between fasa and partha (as im sure you dont either based off your wholely innacurate info so far) but its extremely unlikely VOR had anything to do with the equation.

If you dont like the VOR game, thats fine. If you got a bone to pick with me, thats fine. But dont post blatant completely false information (ie; lies). Thats not cool at all.

If anyone has questions about VOR 2.0 feel free to pop into the IWM forums or contact me at thevor@hotmail.com

- now back to your regular scheduled programming -

**carmachu**

Good luck on VOR 2.0, I had fun the first time around. Cant say I'm going to jump onboard after the first time around. But glad to see you have yoru game back.